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RedKetchup - Creamery

Started by RedKetchup, September 06, 2014, 03:05:44 PM

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RedKetchup

yeah as i did  :-\

cant figure out to do both in same time with a pack of milk, i can only make it work like a blacksmith or a tavern, one, or the other choice.

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slink

It's really pretty limiting to only be allowed to make one thing or another, eg, beeswax OR honey.  We could harvest honeycomb and process that to one or the other, but in the end that is the same choice.  I just had a bizarre image of an apiary filled with tiny Bees, which give a little honey every month and then once a year die to yield a heap of beeswax.  In between times they produce lots of young bees.  Limit is 10,000 bees to an apiary.   ;D

A Nonny Moose

I thought we were discussing a creamery, but for an apriarist you don't have to kill your bees.  All you do is extract the old honey frames and insert new ones while the bees are all doped up with smoke.  Sure you get a few, but not the whole hive by any means.

Then you extract the honey in a centrifuge, which flows to the bottom and out.  The beeswax is then recovered from the extracted frames and sold as well.

Honey mixed with beeswax is also a product called 'creamed honey'.

In agriculture, remember you use every part of the pig including the squeal that you can record.  Liquified pig manure is one of the products of any hog farm.  What did you think was in those big concrete tanks?
Go not to the oracle, for it will say both yea and nay.

[Gone, but not forgotten. Rest easy, you are no longer banished.]
https://www.haskettfh.com/winterton-john-hensall/

slink

But you do have to kill your livestock in Banished in order to obtain more than one product.  At least, I think that you do.  We got here by discussing the fact that processing can't produce more than one type of goods.   :)

RedKetchup

so i have a big update, please be indulgent about my ......... 3D skills lol. i m so bad, terribad ^^

it looks like...... a bit ... chinese LOL
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RedKetchup

fault to have learned to make a new one... i at least learned how to modify the apiary one haha
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Alycya

Quote from: RedKetchup on September 07, 2014, 08:04:00 PM
so i have a big update, please be indulgent about my ......... 3D skills lol. i m so bad, terribad ^^

it looks like...... a bit ... chinese LOL

I think it looks fine  :)

Yep, frustrating that a building can only produce one thing at a time, but it'll still be worth having for the extra variety in food and buildings so keep up the good work  :D

rkelly17

@RedKetchup, sorry I'm late with feedback. I'm happy with a workshop that only produces cheese--maybe call it a cheesemaker (with the appropriate "Blessed are the cheesemakers" benediction from the town cleric) instead of a creamery, which usually does not make cheese at all. Much commercial whey ends up being animal feed and there is currently no use for animal feed in Banished. I'm assuming that cheese fits in with meat and nuts in the food category. The trade value should be higher than 1, maybe 2 like eggs or (my preference) 3 like meat. What have you set as the trade value of milk?

I would like to see a two-part mod that included milk and cheese production.

One thing I am finding with the increased food production mods (apiary, milk, more dense orchards, bigger pastures) is that I need fewer farms to keep people fed. I haven't decided if that is a good thing or not.

Here's a question for The Big C: If we were to do the Vegetarian Challenge now would imported cheese be allowed?

canis39

I'd be fine with a 2-part mod with milk and cheese also. Milk from cows, and we decide if we want to just keep the milk for the citizens, or send it to the cheesemaker/creamery for cheese production. To me, trade value of milk would be 2 and cheese would be 3. But that's just off the top of my head.

RedKetchup

the 2 MODs have been merged already. but you still keep the old one and put it safe somewhere.

the new one, v 2.0 will have everything :

milk from cow 1 trade value. 32 milk units per drop.
new profession: dairyman.
new building : creamery.  it has his own building (started from apiary, deleted alot of things, moved things around, bigger building... but a bit same look and same colors, but different)
2 new food ressources via crafting window selector:
- cheese : cost 36 milk units for 6 cheese units (8 if educated) and has a 6 trade units value.
- whey : cost 36 milk units for 9 whey units (12 if educated) and has a 4 trade unites value.

nothing obligates you to make the building and just keep the milk running.

the problem with 2 mods different, is you get an overide/conflict ressources from both mods, works well since the same ressource is exactly same code, same moddler, but still have the game warning you that you have mods in conflicts. you cant compile the creamery if you dont add the milk to it. and you cant compile the cattle: milk if you dont add the milk to it, so conflict ^^ <= RED Color warning.

it s almost done. just need to make the 3D animation for the cheese and whey (.fbx) and i m done. about the whey i ll use same as milk though it has its own icon. but need to do cheese, it will probable the same bucket as usual in the game, but orange-cheese color :)
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irrelevant

Sounds good! I will likely try this one (5000 first though). ;)

RedKetchup

screenshot  before i go to bed :

New Creamery building (final) and 2 buckets of cheese on the ground waiting to be picked up :)
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Nilla

Sorry Red ketchup that I haven't delivered any feedback yet on your work. Was a bit lazy to write but mainly it is because I am not yet so sure what I feel about the mods generally and also specially about this one.  When I ask myself the question; What kind of mod do you want to play? (Until now I have only tried your balanced honey maker and the Adam and Eve start), I don´t really know. 

As I follow your reports it is obvious  that your ambition is to keep the game balanced. Your mods (opposite to most others) are not supposed to make the game in any way easier. That´s great!

I also see you put much effort on design, also good. Any new building/resource/product should fit in the original design. (Some original buildings are perhaps not perfect on this aspect. I almost never build boardinghouses because I find them too big and ugly)

Now to the difficult question: Does the mod bring any "new value" to the game? (Other than looking nice). I think milk does. When I build pastures, I prefer sheep, because of the wool, that is delivered from the first sheep and (as far as I have noticed) when the pasture is full, it delivers as much meat as a pasture with cattle, of the same size. Milk will make cattle as interesting as sheep! Seems to be a mod I could use.

What about the creamery? There was some discussion about if the cream makes people happier/healthier......I haven´t understood if it does in your final-version. I think this is the main-issue about these production-chains;

Has the products any value?

Why do I spoil 36 milk for 6 cheese, if the cheese has the same food value as the milk? Even with 1milk 1 cheese; Why should I spend building materials and manpower for the logistics on a building that doesn´t bring anything more than a nice look? OK, You talk about a trade- value.

BUT,

Banished has one (or maybe two) unbalanced things, and that is trading with ale (and wood) against food. If the brewery had been a mod; I would have said this is unbalanced, I would not use a small building where 1 person produces 400-500 ale each year worth 8 food-units to a cost of 3 which brings 2000-2500 food by trade. (Wood is similar at least by the general goods tradesmen). Sorry, but I don´t think that your cheese can compete with that.

Maybe together with a mod that balances the ale/(wood)production.

Sorry if I am not so enthusiastic as your effort deserves, but I want to be honest and this is my opinion. 

RedKetchup

#43
thanks you for your reply :) very appreciated.

you are totally right about personally, i really dont want to make the game as easier than it is presently, and i am trying hard to keep it under control :) to keep it balanced :)


as the difficult question : what does my MOD brings to the game ? yes milk bring something, people are only getting sheep and milk to cow help to restore the balance, without bringing 5000 milk per pasture, it brings just a little bit (500 to 1000 milk from an half 10x20 to a full big 20x20) and you can do something with this milk.

even if i just lowered the amount of milk required to make cheese and whey (from 36 to 32) it s far to compete the +266.66% value of ale, such OP. no way i want to do that. yes you are right, thats unbalance. but ale hasnt been made to be selfishly seized by the gamer at all cost and be sold, it s meant to be gave to citizens to get some happiness back. we are often ruling our citizens as a dictator ^^

to your question: will it make people more happier/healthier and will it make the final cut or not ? I was hoping but i still didnt figured it out if it can be made. so it s not decided yet.


why would you spoil 32 milk for 6 to 8 cheese units (8 if educated) and why to spent manpower and logistics ? Personally i wish to bring new building cause i am really sick to always have only the 3-4 same building all the time , all around the map. i wish more building, more diversification, more things that make town : a town! not make an OP trade value.

so ya, the main reason is more buildings, more different things. and personally, i want to see things i made into my games, and be proud of it when i see those :)
and i have other plans too :)
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rkelly17

Quote from: Nilla on September 09, 2014, 03:26:48 AM
Banished has one (or maybe two) unbalanced things, and that is trading with ale (and wood) against food. If the brewery had been a mod; I would have said this is unbalanced, I would not use a small building where 1 person produces 400-500 ale each year worth 8 food-units to a cost of 3 which brings 2000-2500 food by trade.

Historically good ale and beer were quite valuable trade items. The city of Einbeck had such a good reputation for its beer in the later Medieval and Reformation eras that it had to send armed troops with its inter-city beer wagons to keep them from being stolen. The Elector of Saxony gave Martin Luther a cask of Einbeck beer as a wedding present to show his high regard (Luther's wife, Katie, later opened a brewery to help support the family and got good prices for her beer). Of course anyone can make bad beer (I know as I've done it a few times myself before I learned how to do it properly), but good beer has always brought high prices. Even today people much pay more for Pilsner Urquell than for Old Milwaukee. And certainly here in Waterloo County, Ontario, Canada, good beer is much, much more expensive per unit than firewood.

I'm assuming that our Banished brewers are making decent ale. Perhaps someone could mod the brewery to use more workers, but 400-500 units of ale per brewer per year does not seem all that excessive.