World of Banished

Conversations => Suggestions and Mod Ideas => Topic started by: theonlywanderer on November 17, 2018, 11:59:21 PM

Title: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 17, 2018, 11:59:21 PM
I imagine everyone saw Karlieb's curved roads, which were inspiring for sure.

But how to achieve that more easily?   I'm think the mod masters around here can make this easy for everyone and here is how...

So, the desired effect is image one....     

Observe the flattened land in the water so that I could place RK's forest Center which has that massive ring that you can see in image two.   I, obviously, placed the ring for where I wanted the curved road, which meant I had to flatten the water.... (This is where the mod masters come in)

I then placed the grid blocks to overlap the yellow ring.

So....   what I'm thinking is....   we need a similar option to that gridline object, only for a circle radius.   We could have a full toolbar with increasing sizes for the radius.  Included with the radius will be the gridlines also.   So, one radius object will contain say 20 pixel radius or 40 pixel diameter, whatever the game accepts...  and also have a grid that goes beyond it to say 25x25.     Another radius object with 25 pixel radius and 30x30 pixel grid....    so on and so on.

We can just grab the one we want, plop it down wherever on the map, water or no water just like the gridline object and have our template for a curved road.   Slap down a road square on any touching grid box and then tweak it from there.

Any takers?
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: Gatherer on November 18, 2018, 03:19:36 AM
And how would someone remove that artificial island afterwards?
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 04:18:05 AM
Just put a flag at center and make it buildable on ALL kinds of paths (land and water).
Add a radius and make radius visible. Delete it afterwards. Should work :)

I can take a look this afternoon.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 06:39:36 AM
Here is a quick solution. Nice flag from Micro Forester reused. :)

I have made radius 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18. They are under Transport (vanilla toolbar)
Placeable on land, water and small hills (Careful! It can disappear under surface of a mountain)
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 06:40:57 AM
Gatherer,   The gridline object works on land and water and doesn't flatten anything, it's basically a ghost.     The radius object would work exactly the same only have a radius included with it.

I only had to flatten the land in order to get my example to work.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 06:41:45 AM
Awesome, kid....   I will try them out right a way!

The only other idea was to include the grid with the radius, but that's not a big deal, we already have a way to place gridline, so don't worry about it unless you really want too.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 06:51:03 AM
Hmm. I never used grid.
I don't know where to find one. Anybody?
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 06:53:23 AM
That's pretty cool....   can you keep going with the sizes?

21, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36 and 39...   that should be enough.

I can see the issue with the mountains for sure, so we'll need enough radius options to work around that issue.

Thanks, that was insanely quick.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 06:54:34 AM
The current gridline block is in the vanilla toolbar under tools and reports.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
Thanks, I'll check.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 07:21:24 AM
Nothing in game code about grid. I have 1.0.7 build 170910. Newest as far as I know.

Strange. is it an external mod? I thought it was a hidden button like debug.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 07:53:53 AM
My mistake man...  Gridlines is a mod by Kralyerg that's in MegaMod.   It doesn't have any indicators around the icon so I mistook it for vanilla.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 08:07:36 AM
No sweat. I figure something out. :)

First a couple of hours AFK then I try this evening.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 10:04:35 AM
Okay, this far it seems good.
I have increased radius to 24. Larger grid is ridiculous to handle.

Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: Antiligent on November 18, 2018, 02:42:20 PM
Maybe you can make a filled circle guides like this (http://www.banishedventures.com/images/happiness-radius.jpg)
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 10:25:34 PM
Sorry, I had to leave after the last test and been gone all day.

Thanks!!   So far these are awesome!!    How about the larger radius options without the grid?  This would be fine.   

Keep the current ones as they are and anything larger we'll need to combine your radius options.  We'll place down the larger radius without a grid and use the smaller radius options to place along where the road will be.   It will work out great.     The larger ones are actually the more important ones for connecting the outpost type areas.   They always seem to be in a place where you have to make long roads and then make that ugly diagonal to the final connection.   The larger radius will help make that a nice gentle curve between the two points.   The current sizes will be great for more localized areas.      I'm going to go put the current ones to use and post some examples.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 10:27:54 PM
Interesting idea, Antiligent...      Is that even possible?   Seems if that was possible, we would have a full on curved road command already, so I doubt it.  Be interesting to see if somebody wants to tackle that.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 10:33:39 PM
Hi and Good Morning :)
I have only one model for flag+grid (easiest) . The circle is in every flags code.
I can make a larger grid but I don't know what happens when it reaches the
edge of the map. I will have to test.
If I go up to radius=33 I will have a 67x67 tiles large grid and that's a lot.
Maybe I should make a separate grid? (a blue flag  ;D )
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 10:42:01 PM
Here is a quick shot of your efforts working out already!!!   

To do that before would be way more difficult unless you let the game follow the base of the mountain and I hate the way the default method  messes up the base of the hills once the path is flattened.  Now, with the template... we can curve around all that stuff without messing up the base!
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 10:45:12 PM
Nice to see it working!
Do you want grid separate? (solves some problems) A 25x25 grid , ghosted if I can.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 10:48:14 PM
I am perfectly fine either way.  I have no idea what causes problems from the mod side of things.    As long as others have a way to pop the grid in place with the smaller radius option, it's good.   Because the gridline is MegMod and lots of people don't use MM so they won't have a grid unless you provide one somehow.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 10:54:29 PM
Not really a problem but I think a 67x67 grid and a 3 radius circle is overkill.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 10:58:05 PM
Here is a perfect example of a larger radius use....

At the bottom....   connecting near those adobe houses and swooping all the way around between the river and the mountain to another open area to the right.  Also giving access to the small point at the bottom.

Normal way would be to 45 at the houses then straight all the way across... snooooze!!   Trying to figure out that swoop would be pain without a guide.

Is there anyway to increase the height of the flag to avoid conflicting with the mountains?
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 10:59:38 PM
Yes, I can increase flag height but how high is enough?
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 11:04:05 PM
I don't know...  there seams to be some kind of height limit for mountains that are inside the usable map.   They only get really tall in the unusable areas.

Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2018, 11:17:20 PM
I guess that mountain height is moddable. Someone could make a map with very high mountains.
I haven't checked it but if I extend flag 10 tiles up it would be sufficiently high for most cases?
It will look ridiculous but it will work.

I am making a yellow flag (same height?) to place a grid. All this is only temporary so the look
do not have be perfect. You may end up with a porcupine on the map :)

Real Life intervenes and I have to go. I will continue later.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 11:17:43 PM
How does the bare pasture work?   They can be made all the way on top of a mountain and conform to it?

It's fine however it looks, they are only temporary and get removed after the road is built.

Ie... the last example I posted.    Throw down the radius... throw down the grid... make the road... remove the flags.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 18, 2018, 11:25:18 PM
Here is another example...    the flag would need to be on top of the mountain.     The road would swoop around the base and through that canyon on the right.

I just realized the grid itself is selectable.   So if you keep using the grid even on the larger radiuses if you think it's doable and just make the flag capable of being placed inside mountains, we're golden!   

Another solution if full grid can't be used....    can a ghosted flag be placed at all 4 quadrants that can be selected?   There should always be one visible at that point and if the others are buried in the mountain, no issue.

Ie...   I can place some of the ghosted trees anywhere on the map, even inside the tallest mountains.   So, if the flags were placed at each quadrant, the circle could be placed anywhere on the map and at least one or two quadrants should be visible any given time.

Another option....  just have one flag at one quadrant.   Since we can rotate objects, we should be able to rotate the flag and the quadrant flag will rotate with it?  That way the flag can always be visible somehow.    The flag can rotated to left, top, right, or bottom...  just gets placed where the road will be built and it's always available to be selected?


Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2018, 12:30:31 AM
Hi again. I think four corner flags for grid is very good. Then I can keep them small. Always one visible.
I will try that.

Circle radius up to 42? It is a lot but doable. I have to make a lot of icons :)

I'll be back.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2018, 03:08:55 AM
Well, as you said, you can click the grid, no need for any flag.
I made grid ghosted but can not make radius flag ghosted.
The radius is off from center and no matter how I try to edit it,
it is in the wrong place. It means you can not place flag where
there is a building. But now you can have on the mountain.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 19, 2018, 06:20:37 AM
That's it man... you absolutely nailed it!!!!!!!!!

Thanks a million...  this will be fun to tinker with.    I'll post up a few results when I get a chance.

Thanks for your patience on ironing it out...  sure wish I understand all this mod stuff.   I looked at one time and was just completely lost.   Which is odd because I do programming in AutoLISP inside AutoCAD and I'm quite good at it.   But this stuff just can't get my mind around.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2018, 06:31:08 AM
Thanks. A little exercise for the brain :)

There is one thing with grid. I can not (tried multiple times) make it slope conforming.
If I add a decal it takes priority over building a road. So it is impossible.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 19, 2018, 07:19:52 AM
Yeah, the grid can disappear at times when the land isn't flat, but that's not a problem at all....  the radius still shows and those few spots without the grid can easily have the road placed.

Overall though, it's a done deal and works great!!   Some people might be good at doing curved roads by sight without help, but I struggled every time and took too long so I gave up.    This makes it a breeze!!
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 19, 2018, 07:38:10 AM
The area that inspired it all....

Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2018, 07:39:22 AM
Hey, you did it!

I guess I have to look at what I have done  ;D It might be useful  ;)
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on November 21, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
This was a wonderful idea  :)
Thanks to everyone involved in discovering it, testing it and making a mod for it.
It's a great example of the creativity and talent of the people on this forum.
It's made me curious to experiment with how I can make a town look better and so after a short absence from Banished I now want to start playing it again on a new map.  8)
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 22, 2018, 04:50:44 AM
Hey Kid...   hit my first snag...    can't place the flag anywhere something else is already built... bldg, stockpile, crop field.

I guess the flag needs to be ghosted to do that?

Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 22, 2018, 05:05:43 AM
Exactly. I tried to make it ghosted, as I wrote. No luck. The circle is not the same when
hoovering with flag as opposed to having placed the flag. You don't get the right position.
It has nothing do to with flag, that one I can move. The circle is made by game engine
and it was never meant to be ghosted.

Only solution is to make flag ghosted and learn that the circle is off (+1right +1up)
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 22, 2018, 10:40:54 AM
Hang in there @theonlywanderer - I will try a different approach.
Takes time though...
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 22, 2018, 02:28:10 PM
Hey, no problem and no rush whatsoever!!

The actual location of where the flag is relative to the circle is of no concern at all because the radius for where the road will be can be lined up either way.    As long as the flag can be put anywhere on the map including crops, stock piles, buildings, water...  we're good.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 22, 2018, 04:06:08 PM
 :) Sometimes I like the rush. Not always, though.

Here is a new test version. Same as before PLUS a ghosted handmade 3-42 circle.
You notice red flag in storage yard.

Check it out.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 22, 2018, 04:28:25 PM
Thanks for the quick update!, awesome!!   I knew you could do it.     

I'm sure a lot of people will put this to good use!

I don't know what "handmade" means, but it sounds more involved.  Everything looks and works great.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 23, 2018, 01:02:38 AM
I had to draw each circle, put them on planes, make them ghosted and add a flag to each.
The sizing and positioning of the circles on textures felt very much like handicraft.

To remove you better click the flag. The planes are all on the same level. If you have
several circles you can not always click the one you want.

Later I can make red circles a bit thinner. Not a high priority.

Now you have two ways to add a circle. They should complement each other.
Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: theonlywanderer on November 23, 2018, 06:32:42 AM
Clicking the flag isn't a problem, that's fine.   The red circle is also fine, no need to redo, consider it done.

Yes, both options are great to have.   The ghosted will most often be needed in areas that are already flat so the circle being on the ground plane is just fine.    Having the original version also works great because it can handle areas that aren't fully flat yet.  Between the two options, something is going to work.



Title: Re: Infamous Curved Roads... Possible assistance idea
Post by: kid1293 on November 23, 2018, 07:40:07 AM
 :) Then I move on.
I enjoyed this, an odd request.