World of Banished

If you read the headline you may think; "Now she's gone totally mad! Playing Banished more or less every day since we don't know when, isn't inexperienced! No way!" But actually, in some things I have very little experience.

I find the idea from @brads3 very good; using the debug function to give you some more people to start with, especially if an impatient person like me want to play "real time aging". So I opened the debug menu, something I normally never do. After some looking, I found the button, where you can add more people. I thought 10 more from the start would be fine, so I pressed it 10 times.........I didn't knew, that each press gives 4 people and suddenly I had 48 adults and a few children! Many without tools! :o

I decided to give it a try! If it's possible to manage 50 nomads in the North, this might work as well.

I started this game because there are a few mods, I wanted to test: @Necora´s latest upgrades with the New Flora, NatDiv, the new Canals, Northmen.....

I'll let you know, if it works!

i don't use debug often. i do mainly for testing new mods and how buildings look or to finetune mod orders. it is handy. do you realize you can add tools,food,clothing,extra supplies??? it would make it fair since you added population.
   when you loaded the new pine mod,did you add the mods and follow NECORA'S order sheet for the floral additions??? though i don't use the floral flax,i am glad to see you test the new gathering abilities of the pine. i am sure there will be good reports to the productions.
   if you unpause the game,when you click to add you will see how much it increases. i think food is 1000,tools and clothing might be 50 a click.

Quote from: Nilla on June 11, 2017, 05:47:59 AMI decided to give it a try!

Yeah, that'll be interesting - I contemplated to do that too, for one of my next games...  :)

Are the peeps you added educated or uneducated? I remember the debug has a switch to make peeps educated - but that's really global, it applies to just about everybody, even newborn kids, iirc...

I don't want that, or more tools, food or anything - all I want are more people to start out with, even if they are uneducated...  :)

The people are all educated and I didn't need any extra supply. They managed the start. It took a while to get tools for everyone, not to talk about housing. (A few is still missing) But luckily I have @tanypredator´s new flora loaded, so I can collect wild food; the same as it the North. That makes it possible to survive  without debug extras. I don't think it would have been this easy without that possibility.

First picture

One year gone. Still 8 tool less people, but at least everyone has a coat but still 43 homeless.

A question; somehow I have got a lot of thatch. It seems like the foresters collect more thatch than logs. (I guess thy get it as they clear the land to plant new trees) What can it be used for? I can't find anything.

Second picture

Two years gone. Now everyone has a tool, but there's still 15 homeless people.There's even enough tools and clothes in the stores to feel comfortable. I gave @Tom Sawyer the advice to build a small graveyard early in a real time game. Accidental deaths have a long  influence on the happiness and the demand of graves is low. Did I follow that advice myself? Well, not until it was too late: One woman died by giving birth. It would have been the second child born in this settlement.  :'(

First I had the idea, that everyone would have to live in boarding houses. It would work good for a long time in a real time game. There will be no new couples for a long time. But a boarding house for 3 families is more expensive than 3 houses, so I decided to primary build houses. Just this one boarding house. To use later by upgrading  or if I want to take nomads.

Third picture

Here's the rest of my settlement. I I've just finished the trading port. I need to get rid of thatch and other things, I can't use. Although the first merchant who visited was Sirgil the goods merchant and she had nothing I wanted.

other than for buring,the thatch is needed for vanilla wood houses,pastures,stock barns ,and mines.with my setup i don't find it overpowering.looks like the map started you in a heavy thatch spot.now you see what i ment when i said it changed how things grow.lol there are spots in the map of trees and then open spaces. did you use a more wood mod? it would have been neat to see how much the workers gathered themselves just clearing to build. you were in too much trouble to try that however.do you want some tents for all those homless people?lol are you going to ask questions too or just play like a newbie?

Just a small warning to you @Paeng if you want to use the debug, to get more people from the start: The gender and age of the people you get seem to be random. I have 5 single women living alone and one childbirth death, so my 40 extra people were 23 females, 17 males. They are all adults, not only young adults as the "normal starter". Some are in their 40s, so not all women had any children. It might be a good idea to take a look, that the male/female ratio isn't too bad, before you start to play.

@brads3, I must go on asking questions? I can't help it! It's my way!  :-[

I saw the possible use for thatch as building material. That's a good thing. I just want to avoid vanilla buildings, so no big need for it in this game. I haven't found, how to make fuel out of thatch. Is it the CC firebundler or something else, you can use, also if you're not playing with CC? But to trade it away isn't bad either. It's worth 2 and there seem to be a lot of it everywhere. I can't say that it's overpowered. It's at the beginning of the game. There is a lot of grass on this starting spot, that has to be removed, if you want to plant a tree or build something. It's a good thing, that it's collected and can be used (if just to trade away for some seeds). I think it will change, as the game grows.

And no, I don't use any "More XX mod". It would have been handy. Logs is a big problem. But I don't like a game neat and handy, I like it to be troublesome. ;)

This is a bit troublesome, but not only in the way I want it to be. I haven't the latest upgrade of the Pine Forest Mod! There's a long description of all changes (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg34713#msg34713) but I can't find it. So unfortunately, I can't check how the new values work.  :(

The picture shows, that it´s not the latest version of the pine mod. The upgraded houses are diagonal. I try to use it and upgrade only houses in some areas, where it doesn´t look so bad. :)

how long you had the game 2 days?bannies have minds of thier own. whatever you think,they will do the opposite.the debug is not random it does the opposite of what you need. if you try adding 5 females it WILL give you 1 or 2 and the rest males.almost guarantee that.lol

    you need a new game then.  http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1560.msg29343#msg29343
from what i see the may 22nd beta is the newest version. any tweaks or fixes after will wait til fall.

Quote from: brads3 on June 12, 2017, 07:35:15 AM
how long you had the game 2 days?bannies have minds of thier own. whatever you think,they will do the opposite.the debug is not random it does the opposite of what you need. if you try adding 5 females it WILL give you 1 or 2 and the rest males.almost guarantee that.lol

OK, as usual; you are right!  >:(  ;D I know, but I never give up in believing that they finally will come to their senses.

I will show something funny. Again it´s about load order.

Since there are not much new numbers to test, I decided to push it a bit; let the settlement grow fast. So I loaded the nomad well from @kid1293. That´s why I have a lot of uneducated as I tested the wells. It's no trouble to test the wells because I wanted to build @RedKetchup´s lovely fodder farmer anyway. Hm...... no fodder grew, only a lot of a thatch. I have the mods in the order that @Necora recommend:
Flax Patch
New Pine Flora
New Flora
Maritimes Pine Set
NatDiv
every other mod, (GardenWalls Utility......)

Since it looked like thatch was the trouble, I put GWU above NatDiv and as expected, now the fodder grass grow. Now to the funny part! Look at the pictures. Fodder and flowers grow not only in the circle of the fodder farmer. It grows everywhere. It seems to have replaced the grass from NatDiv. It's a funny sight! :)

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hide this post before anyone finds out.

that is funny. NILLA,you tested the new pine set and have production numbers??  the thatch isn't updated. it must be between NECORA'S mods and flora. quite odd that flax would affect this way.

since you are not using CC,i recommmend turning off the flax patch and try again.i am using the original NAT DIV. i have no experience with the new flora mods

what does the new grass function as???? cut it and see what does it inventory?

It´s fudder and flowers. I swim in fudder.  :D

I can´t think that it has anything to do with flax. But maybe with the New flora/New Pine Flora in combination with Nat Div and GWU.

that would be a lot of flowers and fodder.how much do the workers gather of the normal gathering foods as they clear land?

I don´t know, but it´s a lot. :)

it is funny and strange.lmao. i do hope you fix it since NECORA skipped town. where is TANNY???lolit is odd that it jumped thru the patches.

There sure is something weird. I looked at my screenshots from yesterday evening, and saw that it was only the impressive flowers. ;) So I started the game to make a few new, to show the progress of this settlement. .............CRASH!   The last autosave also crashed but a very early save, before I made the loadorder changes didn't.

I have no time now, but I will do some tasting later this afternoon. In the meanwhile; one more flower screenshots. ;)

does it happended at time to crash a boat merchant arrived ?

Quote from: Nilla on June 12, 2017, 02:52:23 AMJust a small warning to you Paeng

Yeah, good hint... I tried this out last night, with an additional 12 peeps (3 clicks)... it makes for an odd mix indeed (which in itself is a small challenge already). Since you mentioned it, I checked the male/female ratio, and sure enough I got like four rather mature women - which kinda upset my family planning...  :D

I also found it weird how the people were "distributed" to available housing - many insisted on staying single, despite plenty proper matches around (male + female + kid(s)), so I had to force a few rounds of fake-demolish before everybody settled in useful family units... seems to me that the regular match-making mechanism is out of order when adding peeps via debug.

In the end I was left with the four single women, all well into their 30's - they may not find a spouse on time any more...  :(


Other than that things are progressing quite well...  :)

No, @RedKetchup the crash doesn't come while playing. It comes directly, as I try to start the game. I tried 3 different saves, so it's not just one corrupted save.

Anyhow, I made some experiments. I don't understand a thing. I'm not sure, I need to or even want to. But there are two important things:

1. If you change mod orders in an existing game; there might be trouble! You may not notice at first but, but don't be surprised or annoyed if something unwanted happens.

2. Nat Div and Garden Walls Utility doesn't work together:

You can't grow both thatch and fodder. If NatDiv is above, the fodder farmer only harvest thatch, there's no fodder or flowers. If the GWU is above, there's no thatch anywhere on the map. But the map is full of fodder and flowers. This is the same, if you use FlaxPatch+NewPineFlora+MaritimesPineSet (as I did in my crashing game) or not (as I did in my experiment).

Here are my experiments. I'll try to tell my findings as structured as I can, if someone wants to understand.

As I said, I changed the loadorder between NatDiv and GWU in my game Rolesburn around year 10-12 and turned the game off in year 17. In that time everything worked fine with a lot of flowers everywhere.

1. All saves after the change crashed, as I tried to load them this morning!
2. A save before the change works!

I started a new game to try to recapitulate what happened.

1. I loaded only 2 mods: NatDiv above GWU. No fodder is prodcued by the fodder farmer, only thatch is harvested, even if I clear the area manually, there's no fodder, picture 1.

2. I changed the loadorder between those two, GWO above NatDiv. I had a crash immediately. I found that weird. It worked in the Rolesburn game with a lot of more mods, so I went back to the save before the crash and tried again. This time; no crash!  ??? And as I said, there's no thatch at all on the map, only a lot of fodder grass and flowers. When I turned Banished off and loaded the save from after the change, it worked! picture 2

3. Now I wanted to test the other mods, I had loaded in that game. I chose to put them in the same load order as I had in the Rolesburn game. As I tried to load them to the game, of cause; crash! But I thought, since it worked the second time just before, I'll give it another try. So I disabled all mods by start, and tried to load the save I made, before I added these extra mods. Crash! That save just worked a while ago! ???

4. Again i started Banished with disabled mods, I turned GWU and NatDiv on and exited Banished. Started it again and loaded the same save that just crashed. This time it worked. I turned the whole mod package on. It worked! ??? I made a save. Quit the game without leaving and loaded the game. It worked. I left Banished, started it again and loaded this save. It worked!

5. Since it's the same mods in the same order as my Rolesburn game, I decided to give it a try. I loaded Rolesburn (without exiting or quitting the other game) and surprise, surprise! It works! Picture 3, loadorder mods.

I haven't dared to turn it off. I want to go on with the game later tonight and even if I think, I know, how I can get it running again; no risks! ;)

And @Paeng, for once @brads3 and I agree: This game has a soul, a will of its own, that often, does exactly the opposite of what we want! ;)

LMAO,i should have known. 1st question to ask any NEW player is what mods do you have and what order. i actually thought the fodder-thatch problem was fixed by RED's update and the NAT DIV update.  if you swap the mod order mid game ,you will cause a crash.don't do that. you should probably try playing with the vanilla game for a month before adding mods. that way you learn the game and how the banies function.lol
        since you jumped in the deep end without learing to swin, how up to date are the pine mods?? do you have the latest storage,cliffs,etc?? i would recommend adding the mini mod in case you decide you want nomads faster in game. generally i try to avoid adding mods after i start a map.
    after you reload the mods and are sure you have the newest versions,restart a new map. the 1st year after you clear land and do the initial buildings and houses,take a pic of the inventory please. i am curious as to how much the workers collect just from the ground itself.
   if you find the game too hard,they do make puzzles for children and coloring books.

You're not very nice today @brads3 !  >:( ;D Didn't you sleep well?

And yes, I know well enough how to swim, even in deep water, living next to a lake (and after some 1000 hours of playing banished the past 3 years or so,) And since I'm Swedish, I don't fear cold water, so  I use to load mods/change mod versions into existing games. (most time it even works without problem.) I have however seldom changed load order, like in this game. (To be sure I always make a save before I do such things, if it doesn't work it usually crash at once and no harm's done) Mostly it's also quite good to understand, why something work or not, but not always, like this time. I don't know how it happened, but I downloaded the version of the NatDiv on 11 June, but it seemed to be old. I think it's fixed in the latest upgrade: NatDiv and Garden Wall Utility do work together. But I will leave the game as it is for now anyhow. It's fun with all those flowers. :)

I just made a couple of screenshots from my game, the ones I wanted to make this morning, as the game didn't "want to play". Maybe all the beautiful flowers will raise your spirits, @brads3! ;)

First picture
This is a new version of a "statarlänga". (a traditional wooden rawhose for farm workers). My version is much nicer, than the original!

You can see, that I've accepted a lot of nomads, the education rate is only 34 %. No need for tents there, the first thing they have to do is to build a house of their own! :)

Second picture

Pine forest and right of it; untouched, wild land! :)

lol,you sure will have a very smelly town with all the perfumes you need to make.

Quote from: brads3 on June 13, 2017, 08:10:47 AMif you swap the mod order mid game, you will cause a crash. don't do that.

Evidence? I do that all the time...  :)

Quoteyou should probably try playing with the vanilla game for a month before adding mods. that way you learn the game and how the banies function.

???  Who on earth are you talking to? Not Nilla, I presume... is it full moon?

This was a lousy day...  >:(

lol PAENG,i was harrassing her. it was a joke. she did say she was playing like a newbie.lol

take care guys ^^ there is something in the air lately... dont let other people misunderstanding you. sometimes lately even jokes or funny statement dont pass at all :(

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 13, 2017, 03:02:09 PMsometimes lately even jokes or funny statement dont pass at all :(

Yeah, all a matter of timing... my nerves are a bit frayed tonite...  :(

Sorry Brad.

Please! Don't take everything seriously. That other thread, sounds serious enough. People got hurt, and we don't know, what's behind in PMs. This is something completely different: Maybe you haven't followed the wrangling between @brads3 and me, that goes way back. I don't get hurt, being called a newbee! I've called him other things; politician is the worse I can remember! ;)

Let us have our fun and take it for what it is; more or less successfull attempts on making jokes.

is that why my ears ring in my sleep? i probably don't want to know what she calls me. ???

I haven't reported from Rolesburn lately. I've been playing a little but not very much new has happend, except what I showed in @RedKetchup´s "work in progress".

Two things has happened: I have finished the canal to the big lake in the south and I have finished taking nomads (at least for now). There are finally graduates enough for a slow but steady growth. The education level rises very slow but it goes in the right direction. There are no real problems. As usual I produce more export goods than I need. I built the canal port more because it looks nice and I can store these goods I don't need and get them out of the way. I micromanage the living places a bit to get a lot of children. About once every year, I look into the houses and let some families swap.

I'll show some pictures.

First picture

This is from year 20; as you can see to this time, I still took nomads. They just arrived, and the first thing they have  to do, is to build houses; small settlements like this Green Village. Growing families live in the big houses surrounded by young, older and child rich families in the small houses.

Second picture

Again I had a bug. I've said it before; if you have it once, it has an affinity to return. This time luckily it wasn't the "freezbug" it was the "storebug". I guess it's the same bug but instead of thinking, that there's only one place on the map to get warm, they think that there's just this one store on the whole map. So people come from near and far with all kind of food and all vendors, also from far away gets here, to get what they need. They are even so eager, that they walk on the bottom of the river!  :D

Third picture

Red village. Here it's more typical "startarlängor" than in that other post; tight and crowded. You can see that the educational level has started to rise. :)

Fourth picture

I've finished the canal. I think I saved that gate out in the lake well enough to let it stay. I can confess, that it looks better in the other end of the canal but this will do. I've played a little bit with the riffle. OK I`m no @Paeng, but the riffles are very nice and I think I've managed to create a small impression of a turning wheel from the mill and running water along the jetty parts. I haven't dared to try the height difference parts yet, it looks a bit trickier.

I had planned to build fields in the area south of the canal but I like these flower meadows, so I'll leave it untouched. I only built a couple of small houses for the fisher.

Fifth picture

I just realized, that I'm so fond of all flowers, that I haven't shown any winter pictures. Here's one from the other end of the canal. Year 25, 600 inhabitants 44 % educated.

NILLA,you have weird errors.what version banished did you start with originally?

looks great !! @Nilla ! i remember your first attempts to put canals on your maps.... you made great improvements !! :)

@brads3, I had the second latest beta version of the 1.07 all the time. But this bug has nothing to do with the versions. I don't think I saw it long back in vanilla games before the mod kit. But in the early days of modding.

I remember this bug from one game. @RedKetchup might remember, too. I claimed he created it, as revenge for using his 3 story houses in a way, they wasn't supposed to. I made some experimenting, using only the second or/and third floor to build in the mountains, over streams and a lot of other (OK Red, I confess  :-\ :-[) not very pleasant looking ways. Anyway he was quite annoyed and since the "interesting" house where everyone was headed, was one of this misplaced buildings, I said it was his revenge. But I´m sure he has nothing to do with it. I´ve also heard, that it may occure in all kind of games. It was discussed in the BL forum as well. Luckily it´s rare. But as I said, if these weird things happens once, they will probably happen again in the same game.

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 17, 2017, 05:36:24 PM
looks great !! @Nilla ! i remember your first attempts to put canals on your maps.... you made great improvements !! :)

Indeed! Talking of old stuff; I can remember you weren't actually happy about these early attempts. ;)

i know you upgraded to 1.07,but from what origiaqnl banished? what version did you by at the very beginning?i don't recall seeing an error like that

I bought it very early from humble store and made every update since.

mine is 1.0 updated several times.maybe different version causes problems.

Version of the latest 1.07 BETA builds need at least version 1.06 to work properly.

Updating 1.07 straight over older versions then 1.06 are not working properly according to Luke.

So if some have a version 1.05 he/she should first update to 1.06 and after that is done update to 1.07 BETA 3.
So a two step update in those cases.