WIP: Natural Diversity

[tanypredator]

Hmm.. do you have any idea which of those other mods was causing the crash when put together with NatDiv? We've had some other reports of people having crashes with certain CC start conditions.

I suspect 2 mods - Kid's RowHouses + NatDiv and Forest Outpost latest version, which both include your resources. I've also removed MaritimesTrees, but they must not cause any trouble, since they are just a replacer of models. Only maybe because they require more memory, than vanilla trees, and my notebook is too weak...

"I like your proposition of adding them into NatDiv" - Oh, thank you! I was looking forward for this new version, but it is not easy to play with non-fuel thatch and without branches. For another thing this branches look really great, I like to see them in forest! Hadn't you thought about branch collector? Or maybe I've lost that...

"Do you think the thatch is produced too slow? Or is it just a bit slow but still okay?" - It is definitely too slow if one play with vanilla buildings. But with modded buildings it's okay. But on the other side, I would like to see more modded buildings using thatch, if anyone will do. And that would make it too slow again.

[kid1293]

It's true that I have Tany's New Flora resources in both Rowhouses and Forest Outpost.
I have only the flax model (RawMaterialLinen.rsc) and clothes model (RawMaterialLinenClothes.rsc)
and have copied it directly with Tany's path. In my setup it is working.
I haven't played with new NatDiv and Flax patch so I haven't seen the problem.
@tanypredator and @Bartender , you are both welcome to my sources in the Laboratory.
I hope it is possible to solve. If you come up with a solution I'm happy to change my code.

[tanypredator]

kid1293, I meant NatDiv resources, because I've put both NF and NatDiv and it worked. But you may be right that conflict is between NF and your mods, not between NatDiv and your mods. I need to test them without NatDiv to determine that. And I didn't meant Flax patch at all.

[kid1293]

Sorry for the confusion. I have only followed the discussion sporadic.
I hold my tongue and let you work. 

edit - one thing!
I always use NatDiv (the old version) and NewFlora. Even when just
starting up to test something. I never had a problem.

[RedKetchup]

It's also true that the villagers can walk through the water along the downstream side of the fishtrap. This was the only way in which we could make sure that the workers can reach the trap itself from both sides of the river. Basically the villagers can wade through the water because they have the wood of the trap to hold on to .

and if you call a "floor"; function and set up a floor in your fbx?

[tanypredator]

@Bartender, have you seen this report from Paeng? http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1593.msg36716;topicseen#msg36716 Seems like you made your mod too hard I hadn't tested food production, because of a large amount of stone required to build Thresher. I've had to start a small quarry at the very beginning of game, which I don't do usually.

[raerae1]

I was having problems with slow downs in game after first loading the latest NatDiv. Basically 10x speed would be like 1x at around year 3. I reverted back to the first version of NatDiv, no slow down. But after seeing some of tanypredator's comments I decided to unload Tany's New Flora instead, and reload new NatDiv. Into year 6 of a new town with no slow down, so that seems to be the conflict.

I also noticed that I still have some of the New Flora elements showing up, like the bees and flax, so maybe that is from Kid's mods? (I have the rowhouses and forest outpost mods).

Anyway, I love all the new mods, so thank you all for the work you have put into making Banished a much more interesting game.

[RedKetchup]

it is extremly hard to do something that meet our eyes satisfaction without increasing the number of polygons. i think the graphic engine is not that good.

[taniu]

I have so set mods - there is no conflicts
1.Flax Patch
2.New Pine Flora
3.New Flora v1
4.Pine Set v 104
5.Natural Diversity v 1.1
6.Ds -Natdiv Thath Patch
7.Work Place v 1.5
8.Maritimes Trees
9.Forest Outdost v 2
10.Vegetable Garden v1.2
@RedKetchup Thank you for explaining why people walk on the water - it does not bother me. "Fish Trap " - I only tested whether the trap can be put on the river and the lake - according to me you can

[Bartender]

Thanks again everyone

Hmm.. do you have any idea which of those other mods was causing the crash when put together with NatDiv? We've had some other reports of people having crashes with certain CC start conditions.

I suspect 2 mods - Kid's RowHouses + NatDiv and Forest Outpost latest version, which both include your resources. I've also removed MaritimesTrees, but they must not cause any trouble, since they are just a replacer of models. Only maybe because they require more memory, than vanilla trees, and my notebook is too weak...

"I like your proposition of adding them into NatDiv" - Oh, thank you! I was looking forward for this new version, but it is not easy to play with non-fuel thatch and without branches. For another thing this branches look really great, I like to see them in forest! Hadn't you thought about branch collector? Or maybe I've lost that...

"Do you think the thatch is produced too slow? Or is it just a bit slow but still okay?" - It is definitely too slow if one play with vanilla buildings. But with modded buildings it's okay. But on the other side, I would like to see more modded buildings using thatch, if anyone will do. And that would make it too slow again.

I'll do some testing with the mods you and kid mentioned and see if I can reproduce the problem.

We decided not to add a specialized building for the branches gathering because we really want it to be a conscious choice to harvest them in specific moments. The idea is that if you want a worker dedicated to making firewood, it's much more efficient to have them cut wood in a lumber yard. The branches are just an occasional extra if you need them, but shouldn't spawn enough to really provide a stable source of firewood on their own.

We've set the thatch production a bit conservative this time, as in the last version it was a bit too powerful.. As is often the case with finding a balance, you first discover the two extremes before you hit the point of equilibrium . We'll probably boost it a bit.

It's also true that the villagers can walk through the water along the downstream side of the fishtrap. This was the only way in which we could make sure that the workers can reach the trap itself from both sides of the river. Basically the villagers can wade through the water because they have the wood of the trap to hold on to .

and if you call a "floor"; function and set up a floor in your fbx?

This could work, but then we would have to adapt the mesh and add a bridge to it. I think the current situation is the most realistic, as fishermen tend to just walk into the water to empty traps like these .

@Bartender, have you seen this report from Paeng? http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1593.msg36716;topicseen#msg36716 Seems like you made your mod too hard I hadn't tested food production, because of a large amount of stone required to build Thresher. I've had to start a small quarry at the very beginning of game, which I don't do usually.

Thank you for pointing this out! We'll definitely look at the food production as well then.

I was having problems with slow downs in game after first loading the latest NatDiv. Basically 10x speed would be like 1x at around year 3. I reverted back to the first version of NatDiv, no slow down. But after seeing some of tanypredator's comments I decided to unload Tany's New Flora instead, and reload new NatDiv. Into year 6 of a new town with no slow down, so that seems to be the conflict.

I also noticed that I still have some of the New Flora elements showing up, like the bees and flax, so maybe that is from Kid's mods? (I have the rowhouses and forest outpost mods).

Anyway, I love all the new mods, so thank you all for the work you have put into making Banished a much more interesting game.

With a combination of mods that add naturally spawning resource to the game, it's always a bit difficult to tell which one is causing the slowdown exactly. Generally it's just the volume of everything combined that's causing the problem, unless one of the mods is really malfunctioning. That said, NatDiv is a pretty heavy mod. The maps are much more densely populated with the addition of our new resources, so a system that is at the low end of the game's requirements will probably have some trouble running it.

[tanypredator]

"We decided not to add a specialized building for the branches gathering because we really want it to be a conscious choice to harvest them in specific moments. The idea is that if you want a worker dedicated to making firewood, it's much more efficient to have them cut wood in a lumber yard. The branches are just an occasional extra if you need them, but shouldn't spawn enough to really provide a stable source of firewood on their own."

Ok, I agree this is more realistic, but then I suggest you to remove berry bushes from branch collecting tool. I mean, I want to gather branches all the time, but I don't want to cut bushes, so I'm unable to send laborers to gather braches from a big area - they will cut bushes. And I have to select each branch separately. With the fact that they disappear quickly, this is little boring.

[tanypredator]

One more thing I noted that I was afraid of from the moment you announced berry bushes. Both foresters and grass gatherer cut bushes off.

[Paeng]

NatDiv is a pretty heavy mod. The maps are much more densely populated with the addition of our new resources, so a system that is at the low end of the game's requirements will probably have some trouble running it.

Yes, definitely... I ran NatDiv together with CC1.75 (plus a few selected of Kid, but nothing else - so it's not Tany's mod per se) and have the same as Raerae - speed 10 with peeps moving like on speed 1... rather the combined power of all, I guess.

Though I must say that I don't have that "effect" with CC_only, which at ~1.5 Gb is a real whopper but runs fairly smooth (even on my admittedly puny laptop)... might be worth checking if there is a rogue item with high poly that could be optimized yet, we've seen how one thing (e.g. a high poly crop) can do this   

[embx61]

How much poly's are the grasses/reeds?

The problem is that while a church or other big building can have a couple thousand poly's easy as the player will not place 10 or 20 of them on a map the bushes, crops, trees are a different story.

Many of those items get spawned/seeded on a map and if a player plays on a huge map it even become worse.

It is not easy however to make low poly crops/trees/bushes/scrubs what still look good in the game too.

I finally after many failed attempts decided to buy a cheap 10 plant set which looked good and are low on poly too.
So hopefully I can learn from those plants how to create those kind of items properly in Max. 4 of them I used in the Herbalist and Natural Irrigation System Deco Mods.

But even a poly count of 140 for a tree x 1000 spawned is 140.000 poly's. Then all the crops and other stuff which get spawned/seeded and it adds up fast.
10 Churches a 3200 poly's = 32K poly's and I not see players placing 10 of those huge churches on the map.

Was it not the cotton crop in CC what used to bog down systems and so BL brought the poly's down?

I like to add while the engine Luke created is all okay for Banished it cannot be compared to the Engines the triple A game companies mostly using and those can handle heavy loads quite well..

[Paeng]

Was it not the cotton crop in CC what used to bog down systems and so BL brought the poly's down?

Yeah, that was probably the first that showed how severe this can be with crops... or, as you noted, items that are built in large numbers...