Author Topic: WIP: Natural Diversity  (Read 10652 times)

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Online Necora

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2017, 04:08:53 AM »
@brads3 you know, I think the black cannons might be my fault. I have a feeling I might have named a black metal material 'cannon' because that is what I originally used it for and the name stuck, but CC might also name their texture map for their cannons as 'cannon'. If so, then with the Pine Set above CC you might get black cannons. I didn't realize that materials can also over-ride each other, if this is the case then I will change the name for an update.

Can you try moving CC above the Pine Set to check that it changes the cannons back to what they should be?

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2017, 06:06:30 AM »
@Bartender , nice that you have brought this over to this site.  Very nice looking mod, I especially like the looks of the thatcher's hut, I like vanilla matches.  I read you moved roots & onions to the meadow but not what you replaced them with in the forest.  To me it is natural to pick up firewood (branches or twigs to burn), I do it all the time in real life, it's only natural  :)

Edit:  Those red mushrooms must be soup mushrooms!  Wagon Vendors be Ware !
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 07:40:08 AM by Abandoned »

Offline Bartender

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2017, 08:14:08 AM »
Again, thanks for the kind words everyone ;D!

can't reproduce this bug

Yeah, I think I messed up on my stockpiles... Just came back, built dedicated piles for everything... et voilą.
New piles, barns and limits still confuse me on occasion, one needs to be careful not to forget one type  ??? 

Sorry about that  :)
No problem, I'm glad the issue is resolved!

@Bartender - don't forget the bushes!
I certainly won't, though I expect that they will come in a future update. For now I want to focus on getting the balance right on what's already there ;).

have you added this paragraph to your citizens ? so they can continue to work as intented ?

StorageDescription storage
{
   RawMaterialFlags _storageFlags = Edible | Fuel | Tool | Wood | Stone | Iron | Health | Clothing | Textile | Alcohol | Grain | Fruit | Vegetable | Protein | CoalFuel | Custom0 | Custom1 | Custom2 | Custom3 | Custom4 | Custom5 | Custom6 | Custom7 | Custom8 | Custom9;
   bool _areaBasedLimit = false;
   bool _available = true;
   int _volumeLimit = 100;
}

Yes I have this added, I thought that there was perhaps a mod that had something else here that was causing the issue, but luckily it turned out it wasn't ;).

i do hope you get this t work with other start settings. the CC medium+ that adds animals to the start does not show thatch on load.
I'm afraid I can't do anything about the thatch not spawning in start conditions that belong to other mods, as I cannot alter those. One thing I didn't think of however, is that in those cases it becomes impossible to build any of the buildings that require thatch, since the thatcher's shed itself requires thatch to be built. I guess the easiest solution to this would be to change it so that it no longer requires thatch, but that means that I would have to adapt the model. I'll think a bit more about this.

I read you moved roots & onions to the meadow but not what you replaced them with in the forest.  To me it is natural to pick up firewood (branches or twigs to burn), I do it all the time in real life, it's only natural  :)
I haven't replaced them with anything in the forest currently, although I did increase the spawnrates for the blueberries and mushrooms to compensate. having some branches spawn naturally for firewood sounds like an interesting idea! I'll give that some thought as well.


Offline Bartender

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2017, 09:01:58 AM »
Here's a summary of what I've gathered from your feedback so far :). Some of these things were mentioned over at BL, but I prefer to keep one list with everything in it. If I've missed anything please let me know!

These are changes I will definitely make before the release:
- Decrease the productivity of the thatcher's shed.
- Enable laborers to harvest foods and herbs (instead of destroying them).
- Change the resource limit icon of the thatcher's shed to a thatch icon.
- (internal) change the name of the grass resource file to avoid conflicts.

There's some things of which I'm still thinking about how to solve them. Wether they will be included in this version depends on how much time their solution will take:
- Find a way to make thatch obtainable when playing with start conditions of other mods (where it doesn't spawn naturally).
- Find other use(s) for thatch (possibly as fuel).
- Find a way to make the grasses sway in the wind (without giving them the billboard effect).

Ideas that might be included in future updates:
- Berry bushes
- Reeds
- Twigs and branches (for firewood)
- Separation of roots into specific root vegetables.

Ofcourse I'm still interested in more feedback and/or ideas :)!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:10:43 PM by Bartender »

Online Necora

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2017, 09:25:05 AM »
What material do you currently use for the crops that appear and disappear?

Offline brads3

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2017, 09:36:06 AM »
anyone else having a problem with RED'S fodder with this mod enabled? i wanted to see how the grasses looked together but i am not producing fodder.

Offline Bartender

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2017, 09:38:38 AM »
@Necora It's a material I created myself, for which I had to adapt the BillboardMaterial.srsl. It's basically a version of the normal BillboardMaterial, except that it doesn't give the billboard effect or the swaying, just the withering. The code was pretty complicated, so I don't think I would be able to figure out how to adapt it in such a way that I would keep the swaying, but not get the billboard effect. I will look at how the swaying is coded for the FoilageMaterial, perhaps I could adapt that to my wishes.

Offline brads3

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2017, 10:40:41 AM »
if i move RED"S fodder mod above yours then the thatch turns to fodder.i have fodder all over my map at start.

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2017, 10:59:55 AM »
oh!

did you used NaturalResourceGrass.rsc name ? because thats the one i used :(
i should have used NaturalResourceRKGrass.rsc in expectation and to make sure in case that someone would use exactly that name too :(
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Offline Bartender

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2017, 01:09:17 PM »
Haha, that must look interesting! I didn't think of the possibility that someone else would do the same either @RedKetchup, I will add it to my list of changes before the release ;).

Offline brads3

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2017, 02:13:19 PM »
it does look different. big meadow fields. i have enough grass to feed 100 zoos now.gg wiz/ i wouldn't try to use it. my fodder is wayy overpowered.funny too,the fodder stores as fodder in barns. the thatxh is suppose to go to piles.

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2017, 03:13:23 PM »
Haha, that must look interesting! I didn't think of the possibility that someone else would do the same either @RedKetchup, I will add it to my list of changes before the release ;).

it is my fault :(
i didnt forsee that situation. i should have this is why i 99% use weird names in my templates to make sure that situation doesnt happend.
sorry ><
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Offline QueryEverything

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2017, 03:46:02 PM »
Here's a summary of what I've gathered from your feedback so far :). Some of these things were mentioned over at BL, but I prefer to keep one list with everything in it. If I've missed anything please let me know!

These are changes I will definitely make before the release:
- Decrease the productivity of the thatcher's shed.
- Enable laborers to harvest foods and herbs (instead of destroying them).
- Change the resource limit icon of the thatcher's shed to a thatch icon.
- (internal) change the name of the grass resource file to avoid conflicts.

There's some things of which I'm still thinking about how to solve them. Wether they will be included in this version depends on how much time their solution will take:
- Find a way to make thatch obtainable when playing with start conditions of other mods (where it doesn't spawn naturally).
- Find other use(s) for thatch (possibly as fuel).
- Find a way to make the grasses sway in the wind (without giving them the billboard effect).

Ideas that might be included in future updates:
- Berry bushes
- Reeds
- Twigs and branches (for firewood)
- Separation of roots into specific root vegetables.

Ofcourse I'm still interested in more feedback and/or ideas :)!

(internal) change the name of the grass resource file to avoid conflicts.
Probably not a bad idea to have a standard naming convention in place, across the board, as @RedKetchup said he normally has his special way of doing it, that way it will be hard to 'accidentally' come across it.
So, R:, BT ( @Bartender ) NC etc ...  it's not a bad idea (you fill in the blanks, haha).
And, if you do share your resource files, at least you will remember where you first got it from etc, as needed.  :D

-- Find a way to make thatch obtainable when playing with start conditions of other mods (where it doesn't spawn naturally).
Why not use the idea Red had for his Fodder chain?  Build that Thatcher house, and a harvester/grower, using the idea of the Forester, the thatch is grown within a radius by the named grower, and harvested, then sent off to the thatcher.

From what I understand, unless your resources are included in the next CC build, they won't work with CC maps natively, so modders need to "put" it on the map manually.  Using the forestry system as a base is effcient, and no need to wait for 'seeds' from the trader.  It would also look very natural in a created field.  The Garden Walls mob by RK is a superb example of how this all functions.

- Berry bushes
- Reeds
-- With reeds, maybe ask @kralyerg if there is a way to use the CC resource, that way both mods can utilise the same Reeds output and the reeds are then able to be used across the board in terms of existing buildings.  It may also then mean that you can start building a start condition that is compatible CC straight from load. :)
-- Berry bushes ...  sweeeeet beats!!  Please, I would love a giant oversize wild Blackberry bush to show up in game some time, it's been on a wishlist for ages :D   Woot Woot :)

----------------
I played for ages yesterday (well, tried to, lol) and I really loved this as a start option, I loved seeing little areas grow, and the deer grazing in the fields, very lovely, very well done.  I built buildings I normally do as my start then realised I didn't have the resources cos they are CC start items, so, it took me a little, then I want back to 'basics' start of gameplay, and it was a new / old learning curve again, but, so far, on this save, no deaths :D

Excellent work (again) I've enjoyed this new start. :)
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Offline tanypredator

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2017, 08:54:29 PM »
Hello! What you have done looks great, so much better than my first attempts :) But I still will suggest you my results, since our mods are uncompatible as far as I can see, and maybe you can include some elements of my mod. What I mean:
1) I have introduced wild cereals, very useful in a hard starts, but I have had only one model and I was going to improve it to make it sway in the wind, but now... By the way, you can use evergreen trees material to make something to sway in the wind, "Material\Foliage\FoliageMaterial.rsc".
2) I have made one bush - wild rose - you can use it as one of your bushes. And what I personally would like (probably many people would not agree) is to change berries model into blue and red mix and to include all new berries there (to make my wild rose produce berries instead of rose hips). It would decrease the amount of resource types and allow to use new berries as usual berries (to make ale for example).
3) I have introduced wild flax, the model is rather simple and it may be called overpowered, but I thought that some flowers are needed in the forest, and it is too very helpful in a hard start.
4) There are wild bees, though overspawned and the 'trump' model wants improvement.
5) There is a full manual gathering system that you can use.

What I would also like to suggest:
6) I have used mod 'cold realism' that makes all plants to disappear at winter. I think that at least all green leaves have to disappear.

My mod resource is attached.

Online Necora

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Re: Bartender's WIP: Natural Diversity
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2017, 04:50:15 AM »
@tanypredator I've also added a range of things, including flax, and perhaps others have too. We did have a brief idea at BL to perhaps make a 'natural resource mega mod' or something like this. Would you be interested? Then we can make it so that everything is compatible (such as your flax not working with CC or my flax) and people have access to all wild goodies not just a select few.

Balancing something like this would be hard, because there are just so many options. But, we could find a way, or perhaps introduce themed start conditions the same way CC does, to give some choice and diversity rather than throwing everything into one super rich map start.