Author Topic: Adding Mods to a Running Game  (Read 393 times)

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Offline Paeng

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Adding Mods to a Running Game
« on: May 09, 2017, 08:59:15 AM »
I'm pulling this out from another thread (to avoid a possibly lengthy hijack) -
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1698.15

QE said -
Quote
But, certainly as a 'force of habit', always new mods - load to game, enable & arrange, then exit completely, then load in the existing map, then repeat, then save & exit - and you shouldn't have a problem.

I'm slightly confused by this... I only do that once, after first starting a new map/game.

So, I clean my reg, then push all wanted mods into WinData.
Start Banished, enable mods, reload, exit (important!), restart.
Click on "New", set start conditions, reload, play. If the map is cool, make a first save (else "Quit" and repeat from "New").

After that first round of enable, reload & exit there is no need to do the "double exit" routine anymore, imo. When you want to add more mods, leave the game, drop the mods in WinData, restart the game, enable the added mods (which then are usually at the bottom of the list, so you need to move them manually if you need a specific load order), reload and continue playing. No more "Exit" again.

Rinse and repeat as often as you want - I usually add 20, 30 new mods on 10, 20 occasions into a running game - without ever repeating that initial "Double Exit" routine.


Naturally, the (repeated) "double exit" does no harm... just eats a lot of time (considering that some folks report 15 minutes or more for a start), for something that I feel is not necessary  :)

I'll be happy to learn or be warned of different experiences.
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Offline Necora

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 09:20:13 AM »
I only had the crashes when running new mods. So I do the open, load, exit, open routine with a new addition. I've not had any problems (that I'm aware of) with changing load order/activating or deactivating/updating mods once they have been initially loaded.

So I'd say you only need to do it the once when initially putting in a new mod. But then again, I don't play as often as others so maybe just didn't notice the crash issues.

Offline tanypredator

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 09:26:22 AM »
I have a crash if I add new mod, start new game, and then try to quit to menu. So I eigher play, then save and exit (if good map), or just save and exit. Then I can quit to menu from further games (even new), if I don't add new mods.

Offline QueryEverything

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 09:37:59 AM »
@Paeng :)  Thanks for the extraction.

I now do it due to a couple of incidences where I've either updated a mod (ver 1.01 -> 1.02), or I've dropped a brand new release into the map and have either had 1 of 3 things happen:

1)  The game crashes because the save didn't 'hold', that the mods showed enabled, then I saved the map, continued playing and on exit something hadn't saved correctly (or what have you), and then a crash.

2)  The mod load order didn't hold, the same as when you don't exit after the initial 'enable', and when going back into the game the mod load order was out

3)  This was the annoying one as I chased the error for an hour or so - I opened up my map, I enabled the new mod, I started to play - but the new items I had added weren't showing up ingame.  It happened both to a new mod and an updated mod (different days), for some reason the mod showed in the map menu screen, and it seems to run fine "on the surface", but I couldn't find a building or resource.
Once I saved the map, Exit the game entirely, then reloaded, the mod was fully functional.
I know I commented on a mod here somewhere that I had to exit, I can't remember which one :D haha. 

Number 3 is the one that really got me to just doing it whenever I add new mods or updated mods to an existing game.
It costs me nothing but time, so in that time I Alt+Tab to Chrome, or another app and continue doing things elsewhere until I see the load screen changes to the Menu screen (I have Chrome smaller than Banished so when Alt+Tabbed out I can see what is happening in the bottom of the Banished screen).

For me personally, I'd rather waste 10 mins before getting into game load & exiting, than getting into an hour of gameplay and can't find a new object, or the game crashing unexpectedly and losing the last hour :)  That's all. 

I always advise players who are having trouble with mods, with either load order, items not showing, random crashes etc, to use this method - it also acts as a good troubleshooting question.
Making sure that they have completely exited, and allowed the game to update correctly, etc.. :)

If it's a new mod and a new map - then there's no reason to do it a 2nd time, just an existing map and new mod (or updated) :D
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Offline Paeng

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 09:48:38 AM »
I have a crash if I add new mod, start new game, and then try to quit to menu.

Yes, that's "normal" Banished behaviour... before your enabled mods are registered, you definitely need to do the "double exit".   :)
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Offline Paeng

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 10:53:23 AM »
If it's a new mod and a new map - then there's no reason to do it a 2nd time, just an existing map and new mod (or updated)

Well, I still contest the "existing map and new mod" - in my experience that is no problem at all. Emphasis on new mod - one that has not been reg'ed previously  :)


Now - updating mods in a running game is a different story, that's always dicey, specially if you have already built any structures with the older version, or whether you remember all instances. Unless the player has a very clear understanding of what the new version changes, I would not recommend it (generally speaking  ;) )

* Sure, I do it all the time, but then it's a calculated risk, e.g. during beta testing and such... if it comes up in a "valuable" town, I read and think thrice about it.


Maybe it's just my generally cautious approach to mods, updates, load orders plus a set routine how to manage all this... but tbh, so far I see no evidence that makes the "double exit" mandatory (beyond the very first instance).  :)
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Online Abandoned

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 01:18:31 PM »
@Paeng actually what started this discussion on gatherer' blog was my asking him if the load order changed when he recently updated his game to beta 1.0.7   I don't know if I would have to take the mods all out before updating which would then put them all out of the order I painstakingly put them in.  Can they be left in the windata folder if and when I update?  :-\   Backed up first of course.

Offline Paeng

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 02:39:53 PM »
what started this discussion on gatherer' blog

Yeah, that's why I pulled it out - it's quite a different set of 'complexities'...  ;)


Quote
Can they be left in the windata folder if and when I update?

Tbh, I never tried this (across different Banished versions)... I would think you can leave them in WinData, but I'm not sure if your set load order is maintained when you start a new game.

Personally, I would not do this - I'd note my current load order, then do a fresh install and copy / enable the mods in chunks of 5 or 10 to easily see and pinpoint incompatibilities. Or so...  ;)
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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 03:02:11 PM »
@Paeng that's what I was afraid of, sounds like a nightmare project. Will definitely wait for final update from Luke so not to have to do it twice.  Also want to make a few separate folder mod sets at that time.  Thanks for info.  :)

Offline brads3

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 03:26:30 PM »
i wonder if it might have to do with how big a computer you have? reason i say this is i have seen mine do something very strange. if it errors and dumps me from a game, it would shuffle the mod order like a deck of cards.has not,knock on wood,done this in a while. bad part is if you don't catch it ,you start playing and then find out later that some mods don't work right. i actually try not to load mods mid game. when i do i do as QUERY. activate mod in game,save,exit,reload entirely.

Offline QueryEverything

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 08:03:04 PM »
If it's a new mod and a new map - then there's no reason to do it a 2nd time, just an existing map and new mod (or updated)

Well, I still contest the "existing map and new mod" - in my experience that is no problem at all. Emphasis on new mod - one that has not been reg'ed previously  :)


Now - updating mods in a running game is a different story, that's always dicey, specially if you have already built any structures with the older version, or whether you remember all instances. Unless the player has a very clear understanding of what the new version changes, I would not recommend it (generally speaking  ;) )

* Sure, I do it all the time, but then it's a calculated risk, e.g. during beta testing and such... if it comes up in a "valuable" town, I read and think thrice about it.


Maybe it's just my generally cautious approach to mods, updates, load orders plus a set routine how to manage all this... but tbh, so far I see no evidence that makes the "double exit" mandatory (beyond the very first instance).  :)


@Paeng you're right, I wouldn't recommend someone loading in an updated mod either (and I don't, and personally I normally start a new map, but that's just a personal preference for new map exploration), unless they know the mod and the risks, it's why you'll see me ask in a thread if it's not clear by the modder, what is needed - new map or is existing ok. 
Sometimes it's really clear, nearly all the modders remember to make a note about the new version and what it's limits are etc, and if a new map is required. 

I don't mind you contesting this, or even asking about it, each to their own, and each player will roll the dice one way or the other - but, as a troubleshooting question, to help someone if they're having any issues in game with a new mod or with a new update, it doesn't hurt to make sure they've ruled out all the problems with the new/updated mod - and as I have personally found, it has happened, that an updated mod hasn't fully updated ingame until the 2nd exit, after being loaded in game.  And there's no harm in being a little cautious, especially when I know it has happened before.

It's an added 10 mins, and it's not for every new mod (if all are loaded at the same time), it's a once off in that new loading instance.
Like last night, I added a bunch of mods, some new, some updated & I will only do the Save & Exit once, and I started a new map.  If I see the boards have a 'safe' update today then I'll do the same process:  Load, arrange & save, Exit; Load, open map, arrange & save, Exit; Load & Play. 

I guess I'm not prepared to waste an hour or so of work for the sake of 10 mins :)   
And when troubleshooting, it's certainly worth the added 10 mins just to make sure it's not a wonky load error.  :)

I think we can both agree, we have different ways of doing this, in this case I don't think either of us are wrong (I certainly don't think it's wrong if you don't do it), just different :) 
Same as our setups & folder archiving - both of us are cautious, and experienced, and pragmatic with the same/similar end, with different but similar methods.  :) 

If I ever come across the thread where I asked where X was, but found it after a full exit in the existing map, I'll report back :)   
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Offline Paeng

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Re: Adding Mods to a Running Game
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 04:37:46 AM »
I don't think either of us are wrong

Oh sure, for me it's more of a "fact-finding mission", maybe improve my little trouble-shooting page... not to prove anyone right or wrong  :)

Thanks to all for your input!
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