Author Topic: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each  (Read 992 times)

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Online embx61

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2017, 08:02:14 PM »
@brads3

If Kid finds a way to give saddles a gameplay function in his wild west mod he can introduce saddles in his mod as material.
I shared almost all my source files in our little corner here on WoB for other modders to take or lift parts out.

I personally never thought about Kid's Wild West mod when making the leatherworks chain. I made the leatherworks chain mainly because it fits the medieval theme but the problem was as with so many production chains to make the end product really useful. Sure I could have added a leather clothing item but it does not do much either.

That Luke should not know how his own game functions and what can be done with it seems a bit weird to me.
Of course he maybe 'forgot' how exactly a little thing here and there works and have to scan his code to find it again but the main functions should be obvious to him.

As a hobby programmer myself some years ago I always made notes in my program files for important functions/procedures as what they do.
IMHO Luke knows what can be done modding wise and what not. It is also in Luke's hands to extend the modkit so more functions become available.

Luke made Banished as survival game and because of modding it turned into survival game annex city building. I think that many players play Banished to make nice looking towns with lots of variety in buildings and production chains, ghosted items and that the survival part depletes after a couple of years. That is how I play at least. If I play that is. My guess is that players are more prone to play longer on a map then with vanilla because of all the mods and that is in itself a good thing.
I am also eager to hear from Luke about the success of Banished and what Modding have done to his creation.

As for the buildings too big I explained this to @Nilla in another thread. I personally think that a lot of buildings are too small. I understand that modders make small buildings because lots of players seem to like them but it is not my cup of tea.  I don't like to walk through my front door to find out that if I am taking 1 step further I am standing on the back porch :)

Production buildings need room for storage and to work, simple as that and honestly besides the church and maybe the salt works I think the buildings are just fine in size.

The Herbalist, 5x5 incl road, is a smaller version then Vanilla 6x7 as this was a request. It functions indeed the same as the vanilla herbalist. The Herbalist maybe not fit a certain town setups but so does not the vanilla herbalist in that case.  Some modded buildings will never fit a certain town setup because of either colors,size, function, and/or looks but there is not much to be done about that. With so many mods released players should be able to find their needs for a certain map/goal.
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Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2017, 08:32:19 PM »
i think you took me wrong. i find it interesting how  mods from different modders can work together and compliment each other so well.it is neat how they work like that. i agree i think LUKE would be amazed and not recognize the game now.what he intended is different than how it has been changed. he should understand the coding though.  hmmm maybe NECORA will teach the banies how to ride horses someday. then everyone will need these saddles. :D

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2017, 01:33:46 AM »
Why every mod @elemental? Would mean that every item in every mod is crap.

Let's stay with your example. To make bakery item 1 "bread" from flour makes sense and is a great addition to Banished. It's absolutely worth the effort, pkm size and loading time. No player would think about how to keep it away from the game and the production menu would not be confused because it is just one. With item 2 and 3 already the question comes "what for" but it can make sense too if produced from another raw material or with a higher trade value for export if people have enough food. But what for bakery item 4 .. 30? We both can not find an answer. Probably it's just unnecessary. Unnecessary effort, mod size and loading time. It would displace bread in game. Auto purchasing for grain players would find a totally overcrowded inventory and have to follow your advice to tell every merchant to not bring it. Clicking 29 buttons in the order menu they will scold about what the hell this modder had in mind. Not to speak about the production menu of the bakery with a scrollbar for 30 rows. It would let the player alone with the damn question "what for". :)

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2017, 02:06:28 AM »
I agree with @Tom Sawyer.

Online kid1293

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2017, 02:34:55 AM »

Yes, agree and that's in line with what Luke made from the beginning.
One type of berries - mushroom - fish....

Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2017, 03:32:44 AM »
i didn't take what ELEMENTAL said as saying mods are crap. i don't think he intended it that way. i actually laughed when i saw his post. it was like a tongue in cheek way of throwing the arguement back on our heads.more like he agreed to disagree with it. i wonder by now if he is trying to be stubborn on purpose for the fun of it.

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2017, 06:04:45 AM »
I agree 100% with Tom, Nilla, and Kid.  I've stated my opinion on this several times before in regards to inventories and merchant boats.  Some people like mega items, fine, good for them, but if that mega bakery is added to a mod set (or added to an old favorite set, the rest of us are force to use it or sacrifice it, what is that phrase some people are so fond of rudely using, "If you don't like it, don't use it."  One has to wonder how many times those people are actually using it if at all. My suggestion would be for modders to keep set items reasonable and make a separate optional mod like Greedy's Bakery or CeeCee's Hog Butchery or whatever.  Then those mega players can leave all the good "crap" for the rest of us.  AMEN


Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2017, 03:16:34 AM »
The discussion has cooled down a bit, and I got some time to go on with this game. ;)

Actually, there's not much to say; it's not a pleasant settlement, but it grows steady. There's not much to tell, not a very exciting game at the moment. I have played about 5 years every evening the past few days, that's enough, so it will take some time.

We've discussed the preference of different fuel in @Necora´s blog. @brads3 and @Tom Sawyer mean, that the Bannis prefer firewood over other fuels. I checked firewood and coal a long time ago, before the modkit, and I am pretty sure, that it wasn't that way. So I was a bit confused. But then I realized, we could all be right. There has been a number of patches and I know, that people have complained about Bannis stealing away coal from the blacksmiths. I also know, that Luke changed some things, people compained about. I find some unfortunately, like the big city fires, but others rather good, like the death marches, I don't know about firewood/coal, but to make the Bannis prefere firewood as fuel, could also be such a change.

In this settlement I have charcoal and firewood. I have looked into it again. Now, I'm sure, that they have access to both. I produce more charcoal than firewood, (charcoal is more efficient, less raw material, higher productivity) and there's more charcoal than firewood in both houses and stores. Most people live in the area of a market and as I looked, most the time they had both firewood and charcoal, but always more charcoal than firewood and once firewood was missing in the small port at the docks. I've also looked into the houses. Many of them have only charcoal, some only firewood and some have both.  I've noticed one maybe interesting thing; I've seen up to 250 charcoal in some houses, but never more than 120 firewood. Since I seldom make charcoal as fuel, I don't know the weight and I'm also not so familiar with the CC houses and how much fuel, they can store, but normally I don't see 200 firewood or more in a house. That could be an explanation, why there's so much more charcoal than firewood in my houses. They can carry more of it each time, the markets also stores more, the vendors get more at same time, so it's also better and faster distributed than firewood. As said in that other thread, I have no thatch and I think CC doesn't use coal as fuel in homes, but I will make some firebundle and see how they work.

I´ve also decided to give you your crumbles, @brads3, even if it looks like you can support your new settlement very well without them. ;) You haven't clearly said, what you really want, but I can guess, that it's my usual "numbers". I didn't intend to test the CC buildings in that way, but of cause, I can't change how I am. I look at production and economy anyway for myself, so I might as well write down some of it. But you have to be patient one or two days more. At the beginning of this game I took every nomad, so I still have enough uneducated to mess things up. But I haven't taken any new for some time, so the education will improve.

I'll post two pictures of two parts of this messy settlement. The menus shows goods in store and goods in homes.

Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2017, 08:42:37 AM »
wow,this town has grown fast. there is a lot of different productions going on.
    NILLA, i didn't make that comment to make you think. it was more said in fun.i don't have anything specific i want for a crumb. i do think that different players with different styles can have ideas that might be helpful back and forth. sorry if i confused you. i do like to have you test mods,especially when they are in development. i think you can help modders with the balancing.
    i use a couple mods that could change the firewood and charcoal needs. i think the no coal mod overrides the charcoal. it may actually just stop them from using coal. by the time i make charcoal,there is so many houses to try to check each 1.  when i get to testing the new pine forest,i  should remember to keep an eye on the house inventory more. as long as the bannies aren't starving or cold,i don't check the houses. unless i am looking for a specific item. i do think it would be good to know which item they use to heat houses and why.it might make a difference on how we use the thatch mod.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2017, 05:46:34 AM »
I don't think you need a "No coal" mod, when you are playing CC. I thought, that mod only prevents people from carrying coal into their homes. They don't do that in CC anyhow, but I like them to use charcoal. It's the most efficient fuel of them all, it needs very little logs to produce. It might of cause be different, if you have some additional mods, that use charcoal for other things. But I still haven't loaded any new mods. I'm still not through all the CC buildings. I will probably not build all, but I will test a few more, to see if they could be used to make export goods later in game, when I need more food than I can produce.

I haven't build all CC houses either, especially not the more expensive ones but I have started to upgrade some of the more simple houses. There are certainly a lot of different houses, in very different styles. From time to time I can buy a few building supply and a few homeware; enough for the speed I'm building. I also produced a few building supply. That's a slow process but at least I can produce some, if I need more than I can buy.

My population is now almost full educated and I have started to make some notes of production numbers, for me but also to be able to give my friend Brads his crumbles. ;) The notes are a bit confusing for myself and they would be even more for someone else. To make it easier, I've written down the products from the inventory list; starting with products from chains. When I'm not busy developing and managing my town, I look at the production of some goods. I calculate a trade win/loss of each product and will "rate" them from A to F depending on annual trade/production -profit. (I even gave some extremely profitable products an AA, maybe unsuitable but ale is among them ;)  ) That's the way I do it for me, to decide what I'm going to produce, what to sell and what to buy. Others build decorations in that time, I calculate! ;)  :-\

The numbers are annual trade profit for one worker.
AA >2000 (extremely high production and/or tradeprofit)
A :>1000 (very high production and/or tradeprofit)
B: 600-100 (high production)
C: 300-600 (good production)
D: 100-300 (small profit)
E:  0-100  (very small profit)
F loss

Ale (from cherries): 5 AA      (This means, that each ale has a trade profit of 5; you make one ale worth 8 from 3 cherries each worth 1, the production of my brewer is around 500 each year, so the profit is about 2500; more than 2000-> AA)
Barrel 0 E
Bricks F ?         (if it's not changed from previous versions, I have no brickmaker, yet (?))
Bronze 7,7 C       
Building supply DEF   (The 3 first recipes give a profit the others a loss)
Candles 0,5 E
Charcoal 2,8 AA 
Copper 6C
Copperpipe F      (I made some but don't remember/didn't note how large the loss was, but it was quite large)
Fancy Furniture 20 A
Firebundle 0,5 DE
Firewood 3,5 A-AA
Flour F ?            (if it's not changed from previous versions)
Furnace fuel -2 F
Furniture 12 B
Glass F            (I made some but don't remember how high the loss is)

this list will be continued.....

From these products I produce;
ale for export from cherries (produced and bought),
barrels (because I need some for my "tasty"  :-\ surströmming and can't buy enough),
one of bronze/copper/tin for export from bought ore,
very little building supply from bought materials,
a few candles (only enough to upgrade my mines, otherwise I sell wax and tallow)
charcoal, as fuel in homes,
fancy furniture for export when I have enough hardwood, otherwise furniture,
firewood, mainly to use as fuel in homes but I also have some in my ports but only sell a little of it. I think, I will need all firewood, I can produce for fuel, maybe even buy some later in this game. In that case I will also open my firebundler.

One question to you @brads3 (or if anyone else knows) You talked about a greenhouse, where you can use bonemeal to grow exotic fruit. I have built one in some previous game, but I can't find it anywhere. Can you help me out?

I'm not really keen on showing pictures from this town. I usually don't build very nice towns compared to many of you guys, but this one........ it's worse than usual. Messy! Many buildings are so nice but not the way I put them together. :( :-[ I made some smaller impressions, doesn't look as bad as an over all look. I can't believe what I'm producing, if you look at the first picture:P But I had a lot of fish, I wanted to do something whit. First I tried to smoke it, (personally I love smoked fish) but it was not good. To make a few barrels of smoked fish, you need more logs (!?) than you need to produce charcoal to heat a woodhouse a year! The second picture shows a piece of my industrial area. Some buildings produce only "F goods ";) , so they are closed. I haven't demolished them. I'm not that familiar with all of these products and who knows, I might need some of them later, lossmaker or not.


Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2017, 09:28:39 AM »
the tropical greenhouse is an add-on mod. you can find it in  KARY'S KONTRAPTIONS section.
it is always interesting to read your production notes.shows how different things can be played.you may be right about the coal not being used any more. however with out a lot of testing with so many mods,i will leave the "no burn" mod in. better safe than sorry and it does no harm. i disagree with using charcoal to heat houses. if you had to heat your own house would you burn wood to create charcoal during the summer? i think not. you would use the warm weather to griow food.coal might be used if you lived in a mountain area like west virginia. since you could dig up coal like rocks. most areas of the world don't have that option.if we were building industrial era towns,then i would say the coal might make sence.if someone was building a mining town, then maybe there they would want to burn coal.
   as to trades. when i 1st started playing banished, i took it as small group of people left on the earth trying to survive. because of that, i seldom used trade. there was nobody left to trade with.where does the merchant come from?? obviously you can't get seeds and livestock that way. you also can't have nomads. over time, i adjusted my play style and accepted trading and markets as part of the game. i still do not use it much though.
     with CC,stone trades at a high price of 7. it is an item that you have lots of at start and collect quickly while clearing for buildings and crops. i used to trade stone to aquire seeds quicker. with more mods,now  i use more stone and have times i actually run out of it. the other thing is i look at it like a cheat now. is it realistic that surviving towns would want the stone? would a trader really want to carry the heavy rocks and sink?  play styles change over time.
    i still try not to trade things i need a good supply of. food i do swaps for other food to get a variety. i generally don't buy food unless i am in trouble.
firewood is one of those need items that i don't trade.if i need totrade it then i could trade reeds. profit may be different but reeds i can grow back quicker than the firewood. coats i usually have extras and do trade. lately i trade survival coats,pelt coats ,and hide coats. i use the fur coats.
    you are right about how CC can be confusing.there is a lot of items and sme work together. some chains there are ways to work around them,not all. RED's NMT mod solves many of these. his smokehouse,meat dryer, and smoker don't need barrels.most times i don't use many of the CC buildings. opther pieces of it i use all the time.
     i agree with your math overall. one thing you may want to figure though. we never consider feeding the bannies in the equations. most time it is 1 or 2 workers so it isn't a big deal. however,if you are trading CC high grade items, you should figure it in. how many workers does it take to process the materials to make bronze or copper and to fuel the chain of buildings?? for every 5 workers,you need 1 worker producing food to feed them all.

    CC is more industrial aged than many at WOB play.some of the chains themselves do make sence though. like the food preservation options. you mentioned before about making food so it degrades,rots and decays over time. if you want to go that route,we have RED's pottery to use for preserving foods. much like the indains did. you may find some buildings you do like.  i use the old dairy because it gives butter and cheese both as output at the same time.you don't have to choose 1 or the other.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2017, 08:33:00 AM »
Of cause you are right about the charcoal; no one would use it to heat a house. In life it was industrial only. (And now for barbecue) As far as I know, it was a small additional income for farmers in forest areas; a work they did in winter, when there was no fieldwork. The coal was sold to mining companies. But if you play CC; it's different. You know, we're on another planet, people age 4 years every season and charcoal is the most efficient fuel. ;)

I like to trade. I do not always trade a lot, sometimes I play totally without trade. But, yes in a normal game I use trade as an additional way to support my Bannis. I seldom use the boring obvious firewood. I rather like to export a surplus of a lot of different things. Things that change as the game grows. This game is special. Since I only will build only one of each production building, I will have to trade to keep my people alive later. I'm pretty sure, that there are more houses than production buildings out there. Now it's no problem at all. I rather produce too much of everything. I investigate the different buildings, to see if it later could be run to produce profitable export goods.

At the moment I don't use many workers to feed the chains. As I say I'm investigating. I buy cupper and tin ore to test the production in the foundry. I don't think these will belong to my end game trading products, anyway. I would probably need the foundry to produce iron for tools. Unless I would find out, that it's more profitable to produce bronze, sell it and import tools. I don't think so, but for this game, I will concider all such possibilities. :)

Numbers for the rest of the goods I've produced so far:

Hardtack        0,75 C
Hide Coat      5 BD
Iron               2,5 D
Iron Tools      4,5 C
Jade statue   40 B
Joist             -38 F
Lamp oil           F  (if it's not changed, it was a loss)
Linen               B 4,5
Marble statue  65 B
Pottery            8 D
Rope                  F   (if it's not changed, it was a big loss)
Rough tools     -0,3 F
Smoked fish      2,5 B*
Steel tools        3,5 CD
Stone statue    14 D
Surströmming   2,9 B*
Survival coat    10,5 A
Rice wine             2 C
Wool coat         10 A
* It's hard to calculate a trade value for high price food. Not all of it will land in the ports. I use to estimate that ½ of it is eaten ½ exported. If you want to produce this products, to feed your Bannis, the reasons must be that they love these products, very much. It's no good business.

This picture doesn't look all too messy. The small extensions on the red and brown houses are nice (the white house will also get some as soon as I need more homes). It's actually homes! A family can live there. But since the main house is big, I guess there are a lot of space for everyone. :)

I had some problems at the beginning building one of each F-variations. (There are a few mistakes, I've found two blue houses instead of one blue and one brown. Not too many of the kind, just the wrong. But since blue is a rare color. I will leave this mistake.) You can see on these country houses, how I make it now. As far as I can see, there are 4 F-key variations (there are actually 6 but I can see no difference on 2 of them, so I build 4 of each level). I set the footprint of all variations in the same area, even if i don't need all at that time. First I get the right model, second the settlement doesn't look quite as messy, with similar houses in groups.

Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2017, 10:26:27 AM »
those are the PIILGRIM colonial houses. hopefully he returns and adds to ths mod set. i don't think you would have a food problem. you have like 20 crops plus the orchard foresters. depending on how you play it of course. it is good to see that the items i do trade,you have rated higher. like the rice wine and coats.the rice paddy can produce over 1000 rice so the rice is easy to accumulate and trade.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2017, 03:33:23 AM »
@brads3, I will not build a field with every crop, at least not as long as I can prevent it. I will only build one of each kind. So far 2 fields (vanilla, transparent), 2 plantages, 4 orchards, 8 pastures. (I don't have that many yet but will expand when I need more food) I also think there are some more types out there, I can use later. You saw a part of my farming area on that last picture, the orchards and fields are big. I made the orchard in (more or less) maximum size. If I remember it right CC orchards are immortal  :-\. The fields will grow, when I need more food.

No numbers this time.

I've played 40 years, the population grows fast at the moment. More than 300 inhabitants live in Osborona. I'm still exploring CC buildings to find future main export goods. I'm not through yet but next time, I guess I will have some more numbers. There are not that many more CC homes to be built; some upgrades, a few versions of some advanced types. So I decided to load three more mods.

- Kid Row Houses: Business and Housing, (it's one of my old favourites) and I haven't used the new textures
- DS Town Houses.

I have a question to you @RedKetchup; I thought about loading NMT (as you know, it's also an old favourite of mine) but I didn't really dared to. It's a 1.06 version. Would it make problem together with this 1.07 mods?

These Bruggen Houses! Lovely!! They are perfect for this game: 3 sizes, 6 colors, 4 types of each, that's 72 different buildings! :) I haven't been this excited about using houses since the red cottages from @Tom Sawyer and the 3 story NMT houses from @RedKetchup. There are a lot of lovely houses out there but to me these 3 kind of homes stands out. I will make some effort to build something nice from these homes; no promise, just an attempt.  :-\

I also have one question to you @Discrepancy; the name Bruggen? The model you showed us is from Bergen in Norway. Is it a mistake, your own name or do you plan to extend this mod with houses from Bruegge in Belgium; Bruggen a combination of Bruegge and Bergen? Bruegge is also an ancient town with medieval rowhouses, that would fit in Banished and in this mod, but a slightly different continental look. (first picture)

I just saw something strange. I ordered the baker to make bannocks. He's also using the recipe for bannocks, flour and water but he makes..........hardtack. Hm..... a mind of his own! ??? But finally, I think I can show you a picture of a part of the town, that looks nice! There are no numbers this time, just to prevent some withdrawal problems, I'll show the production menu from the town hall. ;)

Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-Osborona; only one of each
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2017, 07:29:46 AM »
i  can't say if the orchards are immortal. i use a immortal tree mod and a forever orchard mod. that way they produce the 1st year.
  NMT would work if you had added the compatibility 1.07 mod. i wouldn't add it in mid game.it might crash. you built all the variattions of all the  townhouses and  fancy colonials? that is a lot of houses.