Author Topic: Why the descrepencies?  (Read 317 times)

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Offline twilightbreeze

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Why the descrepencies?
« on: June 12, 2017, 10:10:04 PM »
Ok, I love a lot of the mods here, but one thing I don't get. If you make a compilation mod, why you put only some buildings but not others that go with it? Like there are mods with a fishing dock and gatherer, but no hunter. Then there are mods that have all the business buildings, but no school. Or the mod that has the school and hospital, but no town hall. And the ones that have a blacksmith, and all the other buildings but no wood chopper.  And so many mods have no way to attract nomads. Kinda hard to use one mod for a specific theme, if they are incomplete, know what I mean? Then I have to mix mods and sometimes they just don't look right.

It seems like many modders are busy putting in all the new things like bakeries, etc, but forget the basic ones, like wood choppers, schools, blacksmiths, etc.

A suggestion if I may? Don't need to make new mods, just go back over some of your previous compilation mods, see what buildings are missing, and update with them? Just an idea.
Born in 1965. Got my first computer 1984 when it was all dos. Been playing computer games and internet surfing since before most of you were born, lol.

Offline brads3

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 10:43:13 PM »
everyone plays different and has different styles or likes.i actually like how i can load a a part of a set sometimes.like i loaded a few of EB's mods that look good with some of RED's or KID's mod sets.that is an advantge to the modular mods. you aren't forced to load everything. nor do we force you how to play the game.it is flexible and gives us options.
   as for nomads,there are several options. the mini mod has a townhall that works without needing other buildings. it is small so it can fit anywhere.there are wells and churches,a lamppost,a statue even. you have to look around but there are many options.
   i would prefer a hunting lodge or meeting hall than a fancy townhall. ohh wait i have 1 of those too.and if i want i have a governors house,a huge philadelphia style townhall,etc.
    how many hunters do you want?? i have let me see FO,mini,pine,towers,quick,vanilla,RK,hmmm i have to open the game and count.lolnow if every set had ALL the buildings in 1 ,the RAM it would require to operate would shut the game down and that would be worthless.
 
    seriously,it would cause more errors.you have to findyour own style of buildings that suit you.this is why we do like new players here. they bring new ideas that we haven't thought of yet.there are several mods that are complete sets too. the north,NMT,FO,CC,DS.... what are you looking for specifically?

Offline twilightbreeze

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 11:17:25 PM »
Basically, it would be nice if sets were actually "sets", is all. Like, I like DS Small Village, but there is no fishing dock, or school, or nomad item, hospital, or town hall. And Kid's Small Town Rowhouses has no wood chopper. Those are just two small examples, I could go on.

Just like complete sets for different looks to my village for consistency.
Born in 1965. Got my first computer 1984 when it was all dos. Been playing computer games and internet surfing since before most of you were born, lol.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 11:37:23 PM »
Maybe because mainly sets are huge and the number of things are enormous (?)
only if you count the replacement for the basics vanilla one is an extremly big list, at that, you add everything we do that are kinda missing from vanilla....

i started a big project one day that i never finished and will probably never finish.... an egyptian theme. this is extremly discouraging to see the number of work to be done.... and you are so much discouraged.... that you dont want to get to it anymore.

nobody do a building in 32 mins ! it takes more like 32 continuous hours to do one... then there is the code... and the resources if it creates something new.... and the testing 600 times during the process....

i know it is a bit hard to realize the amount of work...
so moddlers do what they want to... what they feel too... nobody is paid ^^ and then there is real life... and there is the sanity of our brain ....


Edit:

also we arent a team here like in CC. we are a gathering of independant moddlers under the same roof. CC when they started they made some buildings, and then they asked around everyone (like me) and i give them everything i did to add to it, boosting alot their package. they did more things... Shockpuppet is very creative and good to make 3D. and then they have Kralyerg doing and taking care all the code... and they have someone doing all the numbers, balancing everything. and they have someone doing the Wiki....

and they started to get alot of money, maybe many thousands.... and they started to buy everything adding more quickly tons of content... Shock did made tons of other things too...

but for someone , alone ? days would need to last a year. and even that ... we get brain damage to do just that LOL
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 11:48:01 PM by RedKetchup »
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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 12:10:15 AM »
Basically, it would be nice if sets were actually "sets", is all. Like, I like DS Small Village, but there is no fishing dock, or school, or nomad item, hospital, or town hall....

Hello @twilightbreeze , you mustn't be using the latest modular version of DS Small Village?
DSSV: Homes - adds all the accommodation.
DSSV: Production - adds all the production buildings (many many items including the fishing dock).
DSSV: Services - adds all the town service buildings (hospital, herbalist, school, townhall, wells, chapel etc)
DSSV: Storage -adds all the storage barns and markets.

The original DSSV grew too big, too fast. It was split up into parts following Necora's community toolbar discovery.

The jetties and bridges were removed and made into the mod DS Jetty & Bridge

You will need banished 107beta to use Production, Services and Jetty & Bridge.

Offline twilightbreeze

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 12:20:02 AM »
Ok, I'll try those. Thanks. :)
Born in 1965. Got my first computer 1984 when it was all dos. Been playing computer games and internet surfing since before most of you were born, lol.

Offline elemental

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 12:21:37 AM »
I was going to mention that Discrepancy has made many of the things you are asking for, but he beat me to it.

Yeah, sometimes it would be nice if some themed sets had more in them, because some (many? most?) of these sets are just so good it's only natural to want more. But it's all free content made by a small number of people who do it as a labour of love. We are very lucky to have a talented and generous bunch of modders.  :)

Offline Nilla

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 12:29:26 AM »
I play a lot of Banished but I seldom use a lot of mods at the same time. (Not like my arguing pal @brads3! ;) ) But it doesn't bother me at all, that not every mod has every building. I agree @twilightbreeze ; the look of some vanilla buildings doesn't fit every mod and the look of all mods doesn't fit together, but that's also part of the fun; to find mods that fit together, to make settlements with different parts in different styles. It would be boring, if every mod had the same buildings. I like the diversity. I like when modders "follow their hart" and make things, that they want to do, their ideas and styles. That gives the best result. I'm no modder but I think, that's the way modding makes fun; that makes it worth all these hours after hours @RedKetchup speaks about.

Offline embx61

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 12:30:57 AM »
Yeah, it seems that some not realizing how time consuming modding can be.
I not picking on you here @twilightbreeze  but I have seen crazy requests on some other forums that I really thought "You people not have the slightest clue about modding at all".

Some of those people truly believed a modder can put a newly 8 building set together, with all the new materials, the coding, in a day or two.
At least is that how some of them sounded.

Here is good example how thinks sometimes go: Person 1: "Yo, awesome buildings, can you please add them to a set so I don't have to download them all separately and my mod list is so huge with all those separate mods? Thanks". or
Person 2: "Yo, nice set, but could you please make that and that building separate as I don't want the rest of the buildings of that set on this map.

See were I going with this? :) And again, this is not a complaint at all, mind you, All people are different with different ideas but the fact is that we modders cannot please everyone at the same time.
Sometimes some will be "lucky" because the mod is in her/his idea of a mod but others are out of "luck" with that mod.
Luckily here on WoB most people now about how time consuming and even sometimes frustrating it can be.

Like Red said, 3d modelling takes time, a lot of time, and for sure if the modder wants to make the model somewhat realistic with some details.
Then the coding part, getting or making the icons. Yeah even those can be a pain and I am lucky @Paeng made me some awesome Icons for the irrigation sets otherwise I would had to make them myself and for sure would have looked horrible.

And that is great about the WoB community. Some people volunteer to step in because they can do something for a mod the modder is not good at (Like me with icons). It is like a team effort like CC but without being a real designated team. Who knows, maybe Paeng next time makes some Icons for another modder mod.
I think it is truly great to be able to be part of a community like WoB and that is the main reason, although honestly I sometimes think after request number 80 "O no, not this lifting part again" I go out of my way and do it.

Most modders here also share all the code between us modders so we can lift a part out of a mod without reinventing the wheel ourselves. That saves a lot of time and even in the future let the different mods be working even better together with less issues.

Another good point Red makes is about that what we do is for free. We do it because we like it but even us modders need a break so once in a while.
I also spent some $$ to buy some meshes, I have no problem with that, I learn(ed) from it and more importantly Modding is a hobby after all and I am cheaper out sitting behind my PC with a can of beer from walmart then to go to the Local bar. :)

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Offline twilightbreeze

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 12:45:42 AM »
Feeling a bit picked on here, ok? I DID NOT disparage the effort and time it takes to make a mod, ok? I was a rather popular modder for the Sims2 universe and I do understand modding difficulties. I merely commented on the incompleteness of some mods, and that it was a bit frustrating.

So, please, back off a bit, ok? Almost EVERY post in this thread here is taking me to task for not understanding. Stop. I wish I could just delete this post, and never have asked anything. Oh, and enjoy Red's new picket fence. That was wholly my idea btw. You're welcome.

Don't expect to hear from me too often anymore.
Born in 1965. Got my first computer 1984 when it was all dos. Been playing computer games and internet surfing since before most of you were born, lol.

Offline embx61

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 01:41:09 AM »
You ask a question and you get answers. That maybe some of the answers are not to your liking is something me, and others, can do nothing about.
I still have to see one post in this thread what looks like someone was picking on you, so calm please down.
If others speak of the time it takes to create mods they are stating a fact. They not say that to put you in the corner.

I am sure that many modders want to increase their sets. But here again. If the sets become too big some others will ask the modder to split it up.

I explained some of that in my other posting in this thread. It was not a picking at you but nonetheless it is a fact what I said.

Even triple A game companies with hundreds of employees cannot fulfill all the wishes from their playerbase.

You modded before so I would say, learn the mod kit a bit and create your own dream mod what contains all you visualize.
If it is done release it and find out it is not that dream mod you thought it would be as many different people will download it and many different opinions of how THEY see your mod should be will follow. ;) and then we right back of what I explained that whatever we do it will never, ever, satisfy everyone.

I hope for you that a modder will add the buildings to their sets you ask for although (s)he have to go through the next round of some who think the mod is becoming too big and will ask him to tone it down.

Maybe I should do one more overhaul and make everything separated again as to not have to deal with threads like this what turns out to be a bit ugly.
Yes, I am a bit upset myself at the moment that someone with 34 posts is asking us to back of a bit while doing nothing more then try to explain why things are the way they are.  >:(

Anyway, I am done in this thread. For me it is a Case Closed!
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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 01:48:14 AM »
@twilightbreeze , I actually agree with you also. Don't think anyone is 'shooting you down', that is not the case.
We all come from different parts of this earth and some of us don't speak/write this dreadful language well, and others (like me) are complacent with its use. Things can be easily misunderstood, and words can very easily be misinterpreted.
Most of us modders are longtime banished players... or were before starting to mod banished. From my player perspective I agree about the missing parts in sets, I wish they would all have 1 of everything.
But here is the part where modding can become tedious. Sets of buildings, all looking the same can become tiring to make. Believe me I found it hard with DSSV, and you can see it in all my later buildings where I had already steered the mod quite far from it's original 'look' of the original Small Town Home.
I'm sure most of us modders can agree that we are always learning, in modding banished, but also in 3d modelling, and this to me makes it hard to go back to an older building I made. As I progressed with DSSV, I found all my older buildings had serious flaws that prohibited me to improve them quickly, this resulted in me spending hours/days on single buildings, almost rebuilding some - the reason? because the re-made building would never match with some of the old buildings, consistency is hard as time proceeds and our 3d ability evolves.
Sorry everyone for my rambling...
Also, and this is where the modder in me comes out, some mods are not meant to be full sets. Maybe sometimes we should write more about our own vision of our mods. DSSV was never supposed to be as big as it is, or even v1. It was a vision of a small village, a small collection of buildings, storage, market and a well.
Most (maybe 90%... @brads3 good estimate? ;) ) mods are compatible with each other, so I think some of us modders, being players tend to make mods that also do compliment each others mods. @RedKetchup & @kid1293 gave everyone such feature rich sets that we struggle to live up to their masterpieces ;)

I don't think anyone was taking anyone to task. We are all friendly here.
I think there must be something in the air.... or more likely celestial.
Sometimes creativity takes you on a different path, and it can be a dreadful experience trying to progress with old visions. I think that is what everyone is trying to say?

:)

stick around @twilightbreeze , we aren't really biting. We value and respect your suggestions, ideas and comments (this applies to everyone).

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 01:58:40 AM »
i am so sorry @twilightbreeze   :'(

i never meant to hurt you. i am french and english is my 2nd language. i hope i didnt said anything too bad because it wasnt my intention.

i only just wanted to share about the feeling doing sets, and the resentment i have when i try to look in 1 of my set i ve passed a thousand of hours and i cant resolve myself to go back and do more....

when you ve asked a little thing i could quite easily process... i did it!
like i said , i am very sorry. i hope you will pardon me.
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 03:11:35 AM »
I think, Twilight made a good point here. Making the little walkthrough of my own mod, I noticed the same. If you want to play a consistent map in balancing as well as design it's a bit frustrating to have to mix different styles and hard to find suitable separate items to "fix" it. That's why I currently go for making some of these base buildings in nordic style. I just struggle with it because it's kind of tiring as DS said. The effort is only for visuals and creating a model to add a new production chain or to improve the gameplay is much more exciting.

So it was a nice suggestion from a players point of view and please don't stop writing such thoughts. I would like to see more active players with such concrete and honest postings. Modders are just a bit sensitive sometimes and people on this board in general. Language is another thing and sometimes we foreigners don't hit the right of 20 different English tones or so. But actually, we all love each other. ;D

Offline pappa

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Re: Why the descrepencies?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 05:12:10 AM »
I want to thank everyone for all your hard work and making this game fun to play.