Author Topic: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers  (Read 7339 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2014, 06:02:18 AM »
Oof, it looks like it's flattening out now, which was bound to happen really, as the population has shot up, but mostly in adults.

Don't worry, with new houses the children and eventually students will come.

By the way, if you are short on firewood, make ale and trade that for logs and firewood. That has gotten me through some Banished cold spells in the past.

Offline Pangaea

  • Champion
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2014, 03:58:00 PM »
Hopefully it goes better now when loads of oldies have died off and the tuberculosis took some too, but I need to build more homes as well. We're at maybe 70% homes to families, which isn't too bad, but I'd prefer it higher.

Not imported any firewood yet, but have started to import logs. Have also built yet more taverns and woodcutters, to try to keep up with demand. It's pretty crazy in these big towns. Have at least 30 each of woodcutters and taverns now.

Had about 450 free labourers too, so decided to up the amount per orchard to 2 instead of 1, which added another 90 farmers, and should make it easier to harvest all fruits before the winter sets in. Have around 650 farmers now.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2014, 04:26:40 PM »
Not imported any firewood yet, but have started to import logs. Have also built yet more taverns and woodcutters, to try to keep up with demand. It's pretty crazy in these big towns. Have at least 30 each of woodcutters and taverns now.

Excellent (said in a Montgomery Burns voice). See if you can take away the booze baron title from @irrelevant and me while you're at it: 37,000 units of ale in stock. We're rooting for you.

Offline Pangaea

  • Champion
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2014, 05:08:23 PM »
Probably trading away too much to get up to such wild numbers. Have 1500 in each of the four trading posts, and often trade away that lot. Then it can take more than until next time the merchants drop by to get back up to speed. Am buying mountains of fruits though, in addition to producing a great deal ourselves, so the taverns sure are going through it fast. A year or two without import of apple, plum or peach, and we can start to run out.

Perhaps that could be another future challenge? See how much ale you can store up?

Not easy if you have loads (this is why I try to go through it quickly, before the alcoholics get their mitts on it). With a high population it becomes tricky to build up such storage. How did you guys manage that? Very impressive. Tons of TPs, importing loads and loads, and producing from countless taverns? Straight forward I suppose, but I like to keep the TPs down, so then I can't really get up to such wild numbers. slink's mod that cut out livestock and seed merchants helped though, and it's easier to keep on top of fruits now than before.

Cheers! :D

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2014, 05:21:00 PM »
Now we can store ale in RedKetchups warehouse too!  :D

Course at Sink Mill, where I was making 40,000 ale per year, I often had some ale stockpiled in the TPs  ;)

Offline Pangaea

  • Champion
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2014, 05:38:41 PM »
Haha, wow. 55,000!  :o :o Not sure if I could store that much even if we could produce it, at least combined with some other basics like firewood, mutton, venison and clothes, plus temporary storage of coal and sometimes iron/stone. You have twice as many woodcutters and trice as many taverns, so that helps too. And by the looks of it, at least 30 TPs. Given I sometimes have problems supplying 4, I'm not sure how it could possibly work with 30+, but maybe I should try it once just for the giggle. Some days ago I fired up a medium valley map just to see how many could be placed, and I managed to squeeze 55 TPs along the river and a lake. Bonkers :D

Just checked my game btw, and we produced 11,000 ale last year, so well short of your numbers.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2014, 07:42:50 AM »
Course at Sink Mill, where I was making 40,000 ale per year, I often had some ale stockpiled in the TPs  ;)

Show off!   :P

I suppose that to keep 6000 people fed and supplied you have to have more than a couple of trading posts working and keep that ale moving.  ;D

Have 1500 in each of the four trading posts, and often trade away that lot.

In the trading challenge I think I had something close to 40 TPs and others had many more. Even with that many I kept my ale limit at 500 and built a new TP whenever it got over 250. That cut down on the local consumption. Even with 36,000 in TPs (where the locals can't get at it) I seldom had more than 50-100 in local storage. An annual production of 11,000 could get you to 40-50,000 in TP storage with enough TPs. Depends on how many traders you do business with and how much you are buying. I think in the trading challenge I was selling only ale and buying logs, stone, iron, firewood and coal. Every few years I would buy 2000-5000 food to make up for a shortfall. As a result many TPs had max quota of ale in them for a couple of years at a time waiting for appropriate merchants to arrive with needed items. With 40 TPs you don't respond every time the merchant arrived bonger sounds!  ;)


Offline Pangaea

  • Champion
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2014, 01:26:00 PM »
Have 1500 in each of the four trading posts, and often trade away that lot.

In the trading challenge I think I had something close to 40 TPs and others had many more. Even with that many I kept my ale limit at 500 and built a new TP whenever it got over 250. That cut down on the local consumption. Even with 36,000 in TPs (where the locals can't get at it) I seldom had more than 50-100 in local storage. An annual production of 11,000 could get you to 40-50,000 in TP storage with enough TPs. Depends on how many traders you do business with and how much you are buying. I think in the trading challenge I was selling only ale and buying logs, stone, iron, firewood and coal. Every few years I would buy 2000-5000 food to make up for a shortfall. As a result many TPs had max quota of ale in them for a couple of years at a time waiting for appropriate merchants to arrive with needed items. With 40 TPs you don't respond every time the merchant arrived bonger sounds!  ;)

Actually haven't thought about limiting the production of ale like that, but on the other hand, I rarely get more than a few hundred in normal storage anyway due to trading and having most of it in the four TPs. I've noticed that ale disappears without people going there though, so I think people will drinka lot no matter how one does it, basically. By watching individual taverns, the number of available ale keeps going down with 1-2 every now and then, then increase by 10, then decrease a little again. I assume vendors have to get there physically to take ale to the TPs, so it looks like people will "drink" it via magical means.

Don't think I could bare to have that many TPs, the micro would be a nightmare and I'm not a huge fan of the mechanic. That said, I'm trading much the same as you (and others) did. Mostly ale for stone, iron, coal, logs and fruits for ale making. We do produce a lot of fruits ourselves, but not enough to supply ~30 taverns.

I'm a bit amazed at people being able to support so many TPs though, as it seems like most use 30-50 of the buggars. Right now my town has around 30 woodcutters and 30 taverns. Almost all the firewood is needed for local consumption, and at times the ale isn't enough to supply FOUR trading posts. Would think most would be fairly empty if much the same infrastructure were to supply ten times that many TPs. Looking at Sink Mill, there were around 60 woodcutters and 90 taverns, much more than I have, true, but not miles apart, and there are a LOT more TPs (and people) to support.

Maybe I should try it once, just to see how it plays out... :-\

I do a lot of business with merchants, though, especially now when livestock and seed merchants have been ostracised. If a merchant brings 40,000 food in fruits, I'll often buy it all. If a merchant brings, say, 2000 stone and 2000 logs, I'll try to buy as much as a I can, sometimes all, if the vendors can re-supply the TP with ale in time. So perhaps trading with so few TPs is more efficient, pound for pound, but obviously offers much less storage capacity? I don't know, but it seems to work well for me so far, with a soon 2500 population. Would be impossible to reach the population numbers RedKetchup and irrelevant got, but that's probably down to more than just amount of TPs.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2014, 05:58:44 PM »
I've noticed that ale disappears without people going there though, so I think people will drinka lot no matter how one does it, basically. By watching individual taverns, the number of available ale keeps going down with 1-2 every now and then, then increase by 10, then decrease a little again. I assume vendors have to get there physically to take ale to the TPs, so it looks like people will "drink" it via magical means.

It is quite odd that people would take ale out of the TP to drink it (which I think only happens at the tavern). Maybe if the TP is over its max inventory number, but they are not supposed to take stuff out unless you tell them to. TP stock doesn't appear in your normal inventory.

I think that brewers make 10 ale per "batch" and then either citizens drink one or two or traders take it the TP. My tavern inventory is usually x of whatever fruit and y of ale.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2014, 06:12:38 PM »
Don't think I could bare to have that many TPs, the micro would be a nightmare and I'm not a huge fan of the mechanic. That said, I'm trading much the same as you (and others) did. Mostly ale for stone, iron, coal, logs and fruits for ale making. We do produce a lot of fruits ourselves, but not enough to supply ~30 taverns.

I'm a bit amazed at people being able to support so many TPs though, as it seems like most use 30-50 of the buggars. Right now my town has around 30 woodcutters and 30 taverns. Almost all the firewood is needed for local consumption, and at times the ale isn't enough to supply FOUR trading posts. Would think most would be fairly empty if much the same infrastructure were to supply ten times that many TPs. Looking at Sink Mill, there were around 60 woodcutters and 90 taverns, much more than I have, true, but not miles apart, and there are a LOT more TPs (and people) to support.
How much ale are you trying to put in your TPs? I was setting mine mainly for 1500-2500 each, depending on the situation. I also was trading lots of wool coats, iron tools, venison, mutton, and firewood, I'd try to have 500-1000 each of coats and tools, the same for mutton and venison, and maybe 1500 firewood, plus 500 each of mushrooms and beans for "making change". I had lots of ale, but I also had lots of other stuff as well. My TPs were never close to full, normally about 30-50%. But that was enough to buy everything I wanted to buy from maybe 80% of merchant boats. Having so many TPs gives you some room for a bit of inefficiency.

My ale production was efficient though, with 450-480 average production most years that I checked. I credit this to the fact that my system always was flooded with apples, at one point I had around 400,000 apples in storage.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2014, 06:16:00 PM »
I think that brewers make 10 ale per "batch" and then either citizens drink one or two or traders take it the TP. My tavern inventory is usually x of whatever fruit and y of ale.

Actually, I have spent a fair amount of time figuring out how brewers work. What they do is, they go get 100 of whatever resource they are using, and they brew until that is used up, then they go get more. This is why wheat is so bad, because they can make only a single batch before they have to reload. With berries they can get two batches, and orchard fruits yield three batches.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2014, 07:19:39 PM »
Actually, I have spent a fair amount of time figuring out how brewers work. What they do is, they go get 100 of whatever resource they are using, and they brew until that is used up, then they go get more. This is why wheat is so bad, because they can make only a single batch before they have to reload. With berries they can get two batches, and orchard fruits yield three batches.

Thanks for doing the research!

In one town I was making mead from honey (using a mod) and my impression was that it worked more like wheat or berries. I'll have to look further. At any rate, I wasn't as happy with mead production as I am with orchard fruit ale.

Offline Pangaea

  • Champion
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2014, 08:09:59 PM »
I've noticed that ale disappears without people going there though, so I think people will drinka lot no matter how one does it, basically. By watching individual taverns, the number of available ale keeps going down with 1-2 every now and then, then increase by 10, then decrease a little again. I assume vendors have to get there physically to take ale to the TPs, so it looks like people will "drink" it via magical means.

It is quite odd that people would take ale out of the TP to drink it (which I think only happens at the tavern). Maybe if the TP is over its max inventory number, but they are not supposed to take stuff out unless you tell them to. TP stock doesn't appear in your normal inventory.

I think that brewers make 10 ale per "batch" and then either citizens drink one or two or traders take it the TP. My tavern inventory is usually x of whatever fruit and y of ale.

I didn't mean that they take it out of the TPs, but out of the taverns. It seems to happen without them actually going there. Maybe I'm incorrect about that, though, as most taverns are kissing the markets, so there are always many people in that general area. I'll keep better watch next time I play.

I think that brewers make 10 ale per "batch" and then either citizens drink one or two or traders take it the TP. My tavern inventory is usually x of whatever fruit and y of ale.

Actually, I have spent a fair amount of time figuring out how brewers work. What they do is, they go get 100 of whatever resource they are using, and they brew until that is used up, then they go get more. This is why wheat is so bad, because they can make only a single batch before they have to reload. With berries they can get two batches, and orchard fruits yield three batches.

I've seen the same, so it's a great advantage to have the raw material for the ale in the market, or at least nearby barns. If they have to walk far for the apples or whatever, production will fall through the floor. After getting their batch of 100 (if there is that much easily accessible), it's 30 fruits in, 10 ale out. Worse with wheat, as we all know by now, and also berries I think it was (60 iirc).

Wish there were more statistics. I'd like details about exactly how much we produce and consume of this, that and the other, with more details than just "food" as well. And I'd also prefer stats about how much we import and export. Right now it's mixed into each other in not a great way. Production is what you actually produce, but Used is self-consuption plus material that goes to the TPs for export. So it's a bit skewed. For instance, it would be really interesting to know exactly how much ale our population drink. Pretty darn hard to know this, as most of it will go to the TPs.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2014, 07:17:47 AM »
I've seen the same, so it's a great advantage to have the raw material for the ale in the market, or at least nearby barns. If they have to walk far for the apples or whatever, production will fall through the floor. After getting their batch of 100 (if there is that much easily accessible), it's 30 fruits in, 10 ale out. Worse with wheat, as we all know by now, and also berries I think it was (60 iirc).

Wish there were more statistics. I'd like details about exactly how much we produce and consume of this, that and the other, with more details than just "food" as well. And I'd also prefer stats about how much we import and export. Right now it's mixed into each other in not a great way. Production is what you actually produce, but Used is self-consuption plus material that goes to the TPs for export. So it's a bit skewed. For instance, it would be really interesting to know exactly how much ale our population drink. Pretty darn hard to know this, as most of it will go to the TPs.

I'm a huge fan of producing ale for export, so I spent some time working out a system of sorts. I plant a block of 6 15 wide by 3 high (Better Fields mod, otherwise 15X4) orchards with three houses and a barn (I use whatever fruit I get first). Then I build a tavern close by when the fruit starts coming in. Soon I have 10-15000 units of that fruit and build another tavern close by, though by this point every market has plenty of the target fruit. These two taverns can serve 3-4 TPs with 1000 ale each. Rinse and Repeat until I have as many TPs as I want. UP to that poing building TPs and stocking them keeps local ale availability low. In some instances when I don't want more TPs and ale inventory is climbing I start raising TP stock to 1500. So far that has worked well both to trade and to keep the citizens from becoming alcoholics.

I agree that I would like more stats so I can better understand what is happening.

Offline The Big Chihuahua

  • Administrator
  • Vendor
  • *****
  • Posts: 76
Re: Rookie Challenge: 500 Farmers
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2014, 07:55:39 PM »
@Pangaea thanks for playing this challenge.  I'm declaring you the winner unchallenged in this repeat. Congrats and welcome to the Champions Group!