Author Topic: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: now trying for extreme tenure, 1000 years  (Read 23702 times)

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Offline irrelevant

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So having grown bored with the mod-induced lack of challenge, I have decided to start a new, unmodded town aimed at getting the rest of the achievements.

These are: Uneducated, Jack of All Trades, Firefighter, Miner, Mason, Builder, and Tenure.

My plan is to get all of these achievements without building any schools at all. Well, obviously I'll need at least one school for JOAT and Builder.

Starting out with a Gatherer, a Forester in a clear space set to plant only, another forester to harvest logs and stone, and a hunter. As always, I put down two farms immediately, to give food a bump. A single house only to get through the first winter.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 08:40:34 PM by irrelevant »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 08:34:22 PM »
Year 2

Added a chopper, an herbalist, a blacksmith underway, and 4 more houses. Need to get 2 more couples hooked up in houses, and that will be it for a couple of years. Of course there is a serious imbalance between M and F children.  ::)

Going to need more storage soon, the choice is between a barn and a market. Probly will opt for the market, it is so much more useful.

May abandon one of the farms next year, food is not an issue just now. The issue now is logs.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 08:59:25 PM by irrelevant »

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 10:02:29 PM »
ah ha! this is why you asked about uneducated production ! hehe
i answered your question  :D
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Offline Nilla

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 02:48:22 AM »
Very good.

I am sure this will be a lot of fun. For you to play, sweat and complain about your unproductive people and for us to read about it. I wish you luck!

Do you really think you can make the 200 years? I was never close on that, but I know you are a patient person. :)


Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 06:09:39 AM »
@nolla, yes, I think I can do that, I just have to be careful not to over-expand population. With all uneducated workers, providing for a big town for that long would be very difficult.

I'm leaving town for a few days, so I won't be working on Gopher Prairie again before Saturday. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 06:14:42 AM by irrelevant »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2014, 05:06:55 PM »
Year 4

Feeling the uneducated pinch. Still have the original 10 educated workers, but it's tough controlling where they work. Ideally I'd like to have an educated blacksmith for as long as possible, but he keeps swapping out. Educated foresters mostly, and farmers, and the gatherer. I don't really mind uneducated fishers, and uneducated farmers wouldn't be so bad, the main thing is 2 logs/stone/iron vs 3 per tree/rock.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 06:43:00 AM by irrelevant »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 08:02:06 PM »
Year 13

Got the original settlement (Village One) stabilized finally, food and firewood self-sufficient. Tools are going to be a problem, as @Nilla has previously reported.

A second settlement (Village Two) begun across the river. Things will be much less densely concentrated, as more foresters and gatherers are needed to provide logs and food for a given pop. Once trade is going, can begin to transition forest to farmland, but more farms will be needed to support a given level of pop.

The question I have for @Nilla (or anyone) now is, will quarries/mines still produce the same total of stone/iron, just at a slower pace, or will the total output before exhaustion be only 2/3s what would be produced with educated workers?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 10:44:44 AM by irrelevant »

Offline Nilla

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 03:09:15 AM »
Nice to see you back @irrelevant.

I can say nothing to mines and quarries with uneducated workers. In the games I played without schools, I never built any. They are inefficient with educated workers and with uneducated? Wouldn't like to think about that. And besides; I never had enough spare workers. Until the last few years in that big fast game, everyone was needed to produce food, fuel and to build.

I have tried another uneducated game the last days: I wanted to test if my assumption; that it isn't possible to build as fast as I did in my Doolin without mods, was right. And it was. At least I couldn't do it. I ran out of buildingmaterials. My workers were occupied elsewhere, so mines and quarries wouldn't have used much. I had a couple of trading ports, but too few to get enough stones and iron delivered and there were no use building more, because I didn't have enough to sell. I didn't blog thatone because I suspected from the start, that it would be a short game.  ;) :-\

Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 08:11:18 AM »
@Nilla I can understand why you never had enough workers, with your fast expansion! However, I think if I expand more slowly, and concentrate on building up a food surplus (you know how I do  ;) ), I will be able to rely mainly on hunting, gathering, and fishing for food, with some farming to supplement needed grain, and will have sufficient workers left over for mining. Going to need more foresters than usual to provide logs, at least until I reach pop 150 and can get some big rafts of logs coming in thru trade, so hunting and gathering will fit in well there.

I don't see my pop expanding beyond a few hundred, 400-500 tops. I'm envisioning a few more low-density hamlets, similar to what I have already got started here. These will be spread farther apart than my normal towns, to allow for the large forester operations I believe I will need.

The three big challenges I see are building materials, tools, and goods for trade. I already can see that I am not going to be able to rely on surface stone for much more than a few buildings in any future settlements; the penalty for uneducated hits very hard here. Since two of the achievements I am going for are Miner and Mason, it makes sense to me to get a quarry and a mine established in the next few years. There are several good locations for these to the north and east of the new crossriver settlement.

I don't think I would call mining and quarrying inefficient, at least not with educated workers, but it certainly is a slow business. Much will depend on the meaning of the uneducated parameters for mining iron and stone:

mining iron:
   int _lowCreateCount = 1;
   int _highCreateCount = 2;

mining stones:
   int _lowCreateCount = 1;
   int _highCreateCount = 2;

If this just means that it is only half as fast, I think it is something I can live with. If it means that it not only is half as fast, but also that a given quarry/mine can produce only half the total output, that will be a serious problem. That's another reason I want to get a mine and/or a quarry set up fairly soon, so I can see which of these is the case.

Another possibility I see is sheep. This may be an error on the part of the developer, but it looks like there is no uneducated penalty for producing wool:

pasture wool:
   int _lowCreateCount = 6;
   int _highCreateCount = 6;

If this is the case, then it would make sense to set up some pastures; wool coats are very good for trade (although of course production of them will be only half as fast as normal, and will consume twice as much wool).

tailor:
   int _lowCreateCount = 1;
   int _highCreateCount = 2;

The other possibility I see for trade is ale. The uneducated penalty here is again not so severe:

tavern:
   int _lowCreateCount = 7;
   int _highCreateCount = 10;

Importing fruit, of course.

Firewood and especially tools are very bad. This is because there is are two compounding penalties, the one for trees=>logs (and surface rocks=>iron), and then the ones for logs=>firewood and for logs/iron=>tools.

You get only 2 logs per tree and 2 iron per rock rather than 3.

You get only 3 firewood per log, so that means one tree can yield only 6 firewood, rather than 12 with educated workers from the same inputs in the same amount of time.

You get only 1 tool per log+stone rather than 2, so that means tree+rock=>2 tools, rather than 6 with educated workers from the same inputs in the same amount of time.

I can see trading some firewood, especially once I am importing logs, but I can't see trading tools as an option at all. In fact I shall most likely be importing tools.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:51:52 AM by irrelevant »

Offline Nilla

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 06:05:28 AM »
All you say makes sense. But my opinion is still, that especially quarries are very inefficient (got it right this time with the in-prefix  ;D). Can you remember my non-trading-settlement? How I struggled with the productivity of the quarries? How the quarryworkers moved around and lived everywhere on the map, except in the houses I built for them? But of cause, that was a dense farming based settlement. Maybe you can avoid this, if you build the way you plan. It will be interesting to follow

I think the idea of a forestbased economy with these uneducated workers is interesting, a good way to build, if you don't plan to build very big: You need a lot more wood than with educated workers, the gatherers are quite productive, the hunters gives you meat to sell, especially in combination with fish for the population. Also the idea with sheep sounds good. Together with wool for clothing, they give meat to sell.

When I read your blog, I almost feel the urge to start a new uneducated, unmodded game myself. But if I do, I will again try a fast and if possible big game. Not from the start. That attempt failed. But I think maybe it is possible to build a trade-farming economy and when the trade is established, increase the growth. I will think a bit about it and maybe give it a chance.


Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 05:14:42 PM »
Year 22

Just built the quarry. My first stonecutter took two whacks at the rock and was crushed.  ::)

Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 05:50:48 PM »
Quarry is at 98% and I've taken 30 stone, therefore quarry capacity is halved with uneducated workers; total output will be 1500 stone rather than 3000. Presumably mines will be the same story.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 06:06:19 PM »
probably
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Offline irrelevant

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 12:58:50 AM »
@RedKetchup  Bonjour, mon ami; Happy New Year!

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: irrelevant: Gopher Prairie: getting the rest of the achievements
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 03:31:36 AM »
Happy new year 2015 Mon Ami :)
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