Author Topic: DS Timber Mill v2.1 (updated 13 June 2018)  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2018, 12:44:25 AM »
@okkisafire , In the old version you cannot delete it unfortunately, but in the new version you can.

Offline okkisafire

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2018, 12:52:30 AM »
@Discrepancy ow. I guess I should end the history of my near-900 population village, and find a new settlement, lol. Thank you for the answer

Offline Hawk

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2018, 05:08:44 AM »
I just noticed a confusing (at least to me) situation with the new Timber Mill.
As shown in the screenshot below (I kind of color coded what I'm talking about  :D ), the lumber shows in the status screen as construction items but the resource limits are under logs.
If I remember right, wasn't lumber listed as a construction item before, or was that one that @RedKetchup did?

I like the animation you did with the water spray. Shame you can't animate the wheel.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:37:15 AM by Hawk »
Hawk

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Offline Voeille

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2018, 06:13:44 AM »
Id like if it used the construction limit too :) In my recent save I wanted to use up some of the logs I had, and I had to temporarily raise the log limit so the mill would work.

Online Gatherer

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2018, 08:11:59 AM »
Id like if it used the construction limit too


+1
Fiat panis

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2018, 03:43:37 PM »
@Hawk , if you have another mod above in list that adds lumber it will change the timber to be stored and marked as custom5/construction, but the mill will still operate with the wood limit.

:)



what if construction doesn't exist?....
what should be in construction? Bricks, Roof tiles & Timber? should iron fittings go in there too? and wagon parts, and glass, and Lime... all used as construction.
Perhaps another name for it apart from construction materials?
And work out what I'm going to do with all the other empty limits....

Offline Hawk

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2018, 05:00:35 PM »
@Hawk , if you have another mod above in list that adds lumber it will change the timber to be stored and marked as custom5/construction, but the mill will still operate with the wood limit.

 :)

I don't think I have another lumber/timber mod installed at all, much less above yours.
Here's my mod list, in the installed order.

Quote
banishedUImod
banishedUItownnames
banishedUImaps
banishedUIprofessions
banishedUImt
DSTerrainsAndClimates
NewLimitVanillaTP
RKMinimize
NoFog
ImprovedFarming
ImprovedGatherer
ImprovedHerbalist
ImprovedWoodcutter
orchardism
stopcoalburn
MilkFromCows
DSOilMill
ImprovedMine
DSJettyAndBridgePatchToV211
DSJettyAndBridge
NMT30ClayChain
DSLumberMill
DSStoneBridge
DSBlastFurnacePatch
DSBlastFurnace
DSBridgeCrossing
DSMarketHarboroughOldSchool
DSSmallVillageProduction
DSSmallVillageServices
DSSmallVillageStorage
DSSmallVillageHomes
DSTunnelMine
DSBrycesButcher
DSTunnels
DSStoneHovels
DSChapelofErnest
DSCrestBlacksmith
DSRoads
RKGardenWallsUtility
KidAnimalShedSA
KidForestOutpost
KidHouseBoat
KidMarketPuzzle
KidMoreHousesDark
KidPlimothHarmonized
KidRowBusiness
KidRowHousing
KidStoneHouseAddon
KidTinySeparate
KidToolEmporium
KidTwilightHerbs
KidWorkPlace
MaritimesHumbleConstruction
NMTForestCenter
RKOldBakeryHouse
RKOldBlacksmith
RKOldHunterHut
OldTailorHouse
RKstockpiles
TinySmallBarns
warehouse
MDWoodCottage
WoodButcher

what if construction doesn't exist?....
what should be in construction? Bricks, Roof tiles & Timber?

Yes.

should iron fittings go in there too? and wagon parts, and glass, and Lime... all used as construction.

Shouldn't those go under Misc?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:03:51 PM by Hawk »
Hawk

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Offline brads3

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2018, 05:55:13 PM »
iron fittings and wagon parts could go under forged,custom 1.lime under materials,custome 4 since it will be moved and processed more. bricks,glass,lumbertiles under construction,custom 5. this is per RED's original list we got.
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1519.0

     so far i have not seen issues with different mods.they do seem to be able to use items back and forth, even if the 2 mods assign different limits to the same item.

Online Nilla

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2018, 12:32:12 AM »
Agree with Brad about the flagging.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2018, 06:39:12 PM »
The thing is. Forged is a funny thing... what is it? I would only have iron fittings in it as the wagon parts aren't really forged goods. whereas we squash bricks, rooftiles, timber and glass all into 1 category? seems out of balance. Remember I'm not CC, so I'm not going to have all the other resources that they add, which to a player that plays without it, makes it more confusing as to what the categories are for.
Forged could really contain: Iron, Iron Fittings & Tools... this isn't going to happen. Forged is probably my least liked limit as it doesn't have much use as being used as an actual limit.
I really think the lumber & glass need to be split from the bricks & roof tiles.

With the limits we seem to have used a lot of them for things which aren't really used in building a town, which I think they need to be. I think we probably need individual limits for important, regularly used construction items (logs, stone, iron, timber, glass, bricks, roof tiles, etc), how this can be achieved and work with other mods, I have no idea... I'm just not sure I should continue down a path that will have my mods contain resources that only use 70-80% of the limits.

Offline Hawk

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2018, 07:03:40 PM »
I didn't mean to aggravate you. I just thought lumber should go in the construction category instead of logs. That's all.

Sorry! I'll drop it and move on.
Hawk

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Yes, I can multitask. I can listen, ignore and forget all at the same time.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2018, 08:05:17 PM »
no no, not aggravated. Just confused as to what to do. :)

It is just that when only my mods are played, all of the resources are only in a few of the limits, so there are a lot that just don't get used and sit there useless. This makes the point of having the extra limits in the first place a bit pointless.

An issue I have with the limits that were made is that they don't include the last 2 (apart from the North uses them). We all know that it would be better to have limits for each resource ideally, but if we don't even use these extra 2 that Luke gave us, I can't see that he will come back to give us more.

I have a few questions for players:
what are the limits that you use to actually limit production?, and why? lack of storage place for it? too low a trade value to continue producing for trade?
For those that limit wood production, why? It is producing too much, and not being used enough? I know if players are playing with real time aging this can happen, as the mod doesn't increase the age/maturity of the trees, so more wood is being produced per citizen lifetime, this to myself is a big turn-off to real-time aging mods.

I will try to come up with a list of my resources to what category. I can handle putting the Timber back into Custom5 (construction), but I'm not so sure about Glass still being in there. Also having Forged & Fabrics as a limit I'm not sure I want... @brads3 , what resources are in Forged?

Offline brads3

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2018, 08:11:14 PM »
i agree the name doesn't fit well.i actually think of forged as crafted materials. those that are to be processed more or used in construction. whereas crafted,custom 0, is end goods to be traded,like furniture or beds.

     no i wasn't pushing CC.my only idea is uniformity amonst modders.as i said so far things do work. i did use a CC shoreman to get clay to build a nordic trade dock. i also wish CC had took more input before setting the limits. some are under used like fabrics.they could have gone to crafted and opened custom 2.

Offline brads3

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2018, 08:24:38 PM »
http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/37_20_02_17_12_01_26.png

forged: items made from metal.cannons,metal joists.
      but using it as crafted materials,it could incluse many of your items.

            i use limits in the bginning to kee stocks ahead but allow the workers to be laborers as well. in early game,you need the help. so the woodcutter,tailor,blacksmith sepnd most of their time as laborers.as the town grows i increase it and if needed add more workplaces. i do same thing with lumber to not overuse the logs. depending on the sawmill i can switch it back to firewood. the limits give a way to see if you are producing items faster than they are being processed. for instance pine materials are used to make turpentine.if i was producing more materials than the still could use i could see that and adjust workers. limits can be used if a modded building is over productive also.

Online Nilla

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Re: DS Timber Mill v2.0 (updated 16 May 2018)
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2018, 01:50:55 AM »
We've discussed these limits/flags on many places. The problem is, that those that are generally used, were set fast, as the possibility came to use more flags. They are very much based on CC. I know, there was some discussion, but most of us not modding players, didn't participate. I didn't, because I couldn't really see, how it would work. With the experience I have now, I could say much, but I didn't felt that way, to that time.

Now we are in this situation. Most modders just use these limits, no matter how they really work with their mods. I guess primary to avoid game conflicts and confusion. And that's a good reason, no wrong in that. Others use their own. @Tom Sawyer uses his own. Maybe I'm the one here, that have played the North the most and I can really say; they do work better, than the "common flags"; in a Nordic game but they would also work better in a game with the mods from most of you main modders, active on this page.

So what is a modder like @Discrepancy supposed to do? I'm sure you want your mods to work in the North but also together with many other mods. You want your limits to make sense and be possible to use the way @brads3 describes. I don't really know how to solve this, but if we start to define a few important basic limits, that we all use in this active way. I would say; logs, fuel, clothes, tools, stone, iron, ore and keep them as "pure" as possible. Don't mix lumber or timber or anything else with the basic logs, don't mix copper, steel, iron bloom or anything else with the basic iron......... even if they from a "common sense" way of seeing, might belong there. But in a gameplay way, they don't. It would only destroy a possibility to use your worker efficient in a convenient way.

So what to do with timber, lumber, iron fittings, wagon parts, lime, coke, fertilizer, thatch, turpentine, paint, concrete, nails............... ?? They have to be put somewhere and because of the limited number of possible flags, need to be put together in a way, that's not too confusing. First we must be aware of, that as soon as we put two different products together under one flag, the possibility to use the limit to regulate to production automatically, is gone. So put a third, fourth or fifth product to a limit, doesn't really hurt, but it does hurt to put a second product to these "basics" I talked about before.

I find that the modder should think of, how these things are used, how does he want them to be stored, together with which other materials. Should it be on stockpiles or in barns? Which specialized markets and stores should hold these products?

Back to timber. This is how I would think;
1. It's wood but I don't want to destroy the log limit by putting it there.
2. I want it on stockpiles.
3. I use it mainly as building material, that could be put in a specialized store for building material.
4. Construction, custom 5 (also bricks, rooftiles...)

Iron fittings.
1. It's iron but I don't want to destroy the iron limit by putting it there.
2. I want it in barns.
3. I use it as building materials, that could be put in a specialized store for building material.
4. ?? (also glass, wagon parts, fishing gear, traps...)