Author Topic: Religious Icons  (Read 719 times)

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Offline River

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Religious Icons
« on: May 06, 2018, 09:39:42 PM »
I do not want to step on anyone's toes, if I offend here, I am very sorry!!

That said, being that there are many different countries and cultures represented here, I think that obvious Christian icons on chapels, churches, and other buildings are rather presumptious, and might turn off some people.

I'm sure there are many here who do not feel very comfortable using buildings with a cross, or dove on it, like people of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, and other different ideals and beliefs. Since it would be hard to accommodate everyone individually, why don't we stick to generic icons, like simple stained glass, a spire like DS's Village Church, or just a podium and seating like another mod I've seen. There are more sets with Christian icons on their churches, than generic ones.

My point is, rather than make someone not of the Christian faith go hunting for a more generic chapel, let's just do them all generic. That way, everyone can enjoy without feeling subtly pressured. I will honestly say, I kinda do when I download a nice set, and find the church/chapel with a cross on it, or a dove flying down, I just don't feel comfortable using that. I'm sure I'm not the only one out the thousands that play Banished all over the world.

Please do not take offense, none is intended here. I'm sure many just did not think about it when they made their sets.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 09:56:56 PM »
i ll try to remember that when i ll do a relook of the vanilla big church :)
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Offline elemental

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 11:08:05 PM »
Or you can make two versions one with cross, one without.

Offline Gatherer

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018, 08:33:59 AM »
As an atheist I will comment in three points:

1. I have no problems using religious buildings with a cross, doves,...

2. If modders decide to create "generic" religious buildings that can represent any faith then I expect no following words in .pkm filename and ingame UI window of those buildings: church, chapel, cathedral, abbey, hermitage, basilica, cloister, convent, monastery, oratory, mission,...

3. I prefer using religious buildings that represent christian faith.
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Offline The Pilgrim

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 08:49:09 AM »
I think the fact that there are both available makes this a moot argument. Yes, one particular building may have a certain iconography on it, but historically certain types of architecture is assosaciated with certain religious buildings. I do think we could stand to have a good bit more diversity iin the architecture represented, but removing a cross from a building thats very shape and characteristics were only used in construction of Christian churches is a bit too much.

Offline River

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 09:07:04 AM »
There are some generic buildings with generic icons, but most mods have a specific choice.

I wasn't saying alter what's been done, just do more in the future that's generic, give more choice, is all. I like the idea of two in one mod, like doing the town hall with and without nomads.

Just trying to further diversity, is all.

Offline Gatherer

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 10:11:57 AM »
I agree that there could be more "generic" religious buildings but I do not agree that any future religious buildings that look christian to be without crosses.

This is the Suggestions and Mod Ideas Sub-Forum. Perhaps if asked nicely some modder can create a set of religious buildings that fit some other faiths (pagoda, shrine, Jain temple, Hindu temple, synagogue, gurdwara, mosque,...).

That's all I have to say about this subject.
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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »
bah when i did Little Chapel back 2-3 years ago, i changed and modified the cross that was ontop, i made it to represent a person lifting his arms to the sky instead of a cross. i thought, i think, whatever religion, they all praise the sky more than anything else.
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Offline River

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 01:31:39 PM »
It appears I have offended Gatherer somehow. Not my intention. I did not say all future buildings be without crosses. I merely agreed that the suggestion of two options, with and without, was a good one, like we do for Town Halls. That's all.

Offline Kimbolton

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 01:59:08 PM »

I have to say that I respectfully but completely disagree with River.

First off it is up to the mod creators as to what they wish to make and censoring their creativity, no matter the good intentions is just a bad idea. You are free to use or not use what you wish and have already stated that there are other options. Please use them.

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I'm sure there are many here who do not feel very comfortable using buildings with a cross, or dove on it, like people of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, and other different ideals and beliefs.
     

Actually the dove symbol is used in many faiths including the Jewish faith.

I have wanted a synagogue added to Banished for quite some time. I just haven't gotten around to requesting one. I think if people of different faiths want other religious buildings than they should simply request them. The wonderful people who contribute their mods here seem to be very accommodating. Isn't their a Japanese temple in the game, a pagan shrine? Let's have more of that kind of thing. More religious building of different faiths.     

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Just trying to further diversity, is all.

Unfortunately it is becoming more common to turn the word diversity into it's opposite meaning. Diversity means adding things not taking them away.

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My point is, rather than make someone not of the Christian faith go hunting for a more generic chapel, let's just do them all generic. That way, everyone can enjoy without feeling subtly pressured.

Everyone? No people who enjoy the Christian buildings wouldn't be happy about it. Also with all the mods offered I am always hunting for this and that. Hunting for buildings that could act as generic "churches" isn't anymore stressful. 

River, I honestly respect your right to your opinions and don't wish to offend. Let us just please look to making the game more diverse by adding different types of buildings. Again, please request the types of buildings you wish to see and not ask that certain types of buildings not be created.

While I was typing:

 
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I did not say all future buildings be without crosses. I merely agreed that the suggestion of two options, with and without, was a good one, like we do for Town Halls. That's all.

That is a good request. I think modders will consider that when creating. It is in the end their choice though. I think your quote below may have sent a different message.

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My point is, rather than make someone not of the Christian faith go hunting for a more generic chapel, let's just do them all generic.

That's my two cents. :)         

 



 

Offline elemental

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2018, 03:23:01 PM »
I'm not religious and I don't have a problem with Christian churches in the game. As mentioned, with or without a cross a church still looks very much like a church.




Offline mer

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 09:52:20 AM »
A short recherche brought me to the finding that the settlers most probably will be members of the Old Catholic Church, and settlement date cannot be before 1989. For this could be the first historical co-occurence of the term 'cleric' (that is not commonly used in protestantism, there usually it is 'pastor' or 'minister') and females as community leaders (what only is possible in parts of protestantism and the Old Catholic Church). But if i am not mistaken, even if they are protestants, they cannot have settled before 1932, when the first woman has been ordinated (in the United Church of Canada).

All joking aside?
I'm not sure. While the building style in many (if not all?) religions is not strictly prescribed and the 'iconographic' look may even be rarely found 'in the wild', the nonacceptance of female leadership is. Thus, when installing building styles for other religions, beware of calling up much higher aversion of the members of thoses communities due to unwariness than the aversion by prescribing an distortion of historical christianity. (Christians often are quiet lenient with this.) If a shrine, a mosque and so on are implemented, you also should take care that female citizens are strictly excluded from taking the job there.

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 12:31:14 PM »
We should probably take into account that, whatever religion the Bannies practiced in the Old Country, they must have been horrible heretics. Otherwise why would they have been Banished (with a capital B)? Who knows what sort of heretical stuff they might get up to in their new settlement! And what sort of religious buildings they might build. ;)   :P

Back in the early days of W of B we got into a long diversion on the thought that the Bannies worship the God RNG (Random Number Generator). I'm sure the craziness still resides somewhere on this site.

By the way, at least some Protestants refer to their clergy as "clerics," though not as a title. And there is good historical evidence, including paintings in the catacombs, that women performed what would now be considered clerical functions in the first few centuries of Christianity, but were then prevented. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, I would think, for modders who had an interest to produce religious structures of all types from many religions. And why not some sort of "Philosophical Reading Room" for non-religious people? As Chairman Mao once said, "Let a thousand flowers bloom!"

Offline Nilla

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 04:36:23 PM »
I realize now how much I've missed your comments on various topics @rkelly17. ;)

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Religious Icons
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 10:07:54 AM »
I realize now how much I've missed your comments on various topics @rkelly17. ;)

Thank you, Nilla. I always told my colleagues that there is a very fine line between teaching and stand-up comedy. Plus I'm an old fan of Franz Kafka (doesn't waking up in the morning to discover you've become a giant cockroach  ??? really sum up life?), so there you have it.