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Nilla--Funsted; Industry Mining in the North

Started by Nilla, June 12, 2018, 01:37:02 AM

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Tom Sawyer

Wow, 9k dalers in your bank. The richest Nordic town ever! :)

Nilla

Yes, too rich. The "problem" is, I still produce too much food myself, together with the good export products.
See picture; go Iceland go! The game starts now! :)

rkelly17


Nilla


Nilla

Yesterday we celebrated Midsummer :) so no Banished played. But I will speak a little about the wealth of this settlement. No fear for the North, people! On mild (without Ironman) it's not hard to get a surplus of most everything, especially food.

I didn't really want to produce much food in this game; more rely on trade. The statistic says, that I produce 62 k and consume 90 k food. So I really don't need to buy that much. The statistic is also a bit deceptive: When you're processing food; it will be counted twice or when you're selling food; it will be counted as consumption. In this game I make both; I process as much food as I can; meat, fish, milk and blueberries from village production and also imported blueberries, cherries, rye, wheat, flour and cabbage. I export salted meat and cheese.

The "basic" food production is primary meat. I want to be self sufficient on wool and leather for warm coats and wanted as many pastures as needed for this. I now have 4 cow and 5 sheep pastures and 4 hunter's lodges. My 600 inhabitants need about 160 coats each year. You will need 480 wool and 320 leather. The sheep produce almost that amount of wool (I've bought a little to have a surplus) but there isn't enough leather. Last year 28 cow hides->112 leather and 82 deer hides ->164. I have more meat than I need (3600 mutton, 5600 beef, 4100 venison last year) so I don't want to build more pastures or hunters, so I buy some leather. With educated workers you'll need about 1 pasture of each sheep and cows and one hunter for 100 people to get enough textiles for warm coats.

Of course, I could stop processing the food, especially meat. But somehow, I find it's a part of the game to use these possibilities. I wanted to calculate and compare the profit of my food processors in this larger settlement and present some numbers. But it's not so easy with this autotrade. Sometimes I have no salt, sometimes no sugar, sometimes no cabbage or blueberries, sometimes no wheat or rye, sometimes no flour. So far, to no time enough of everything. I suppose I need to take one chain at the time. My impression is that sauerkraut and bread might be too powerful, jam is OK, meat and fish is hard to have a "feeling"of,  because of the surplus of meat.

Of course I could also demolish my orchards. I have kept those I had from the start and built some new on some land close to houses, that I see no better use for. I like the look, and compared to meat, the production is not so high: 5000-6000 fruit every year. I've also kept 2 fields, mostly because I have no other use for that area. I use them now to have some barely for ale.

I could also stop sending laborers out in the forest to pick blueberries and mushrooms (some years I do, simply because I forget to mark the forestfood :-\). But I have a lot of laborers, especially as the products of the tool chain, often has reached their limits. And I like to have working people, not only see them in large numbers, idling at the well.  ;)

Picture
The "unhappy" industrial area with its many unemployed industrial workers.

Nilla

 :'( Our team didn't beat Germany yesterday. You might imagine, what's up in our Swedish/German family on such occasions! We all like most kind of sports and are very dedicated. Generally we are interested in sports here in Sweden but we're a small country with only 10 million inhabitants, and Germany is much bigger, so I'm pretty used to being the one whose team loses.  :-\ But on the other hand, it's not totally lost. We "only" need to beat Mexico, probably with "only" 2 goals. :P At least our guys have it in their own hands. And this result is the only way that Sweden and Germany could advance. To be true, I have one big favourite; Sweden and another 4 co-favourite teams; our neighbors Iceland and Denmark and our "family teams"; Germany and Australia, but I don't think any of these teams will win the World Cup this year.  :(

I got carried away and forgot, that this is a gaming Web Site, but on the other hand; this is my blog............. ;)

I didn't play much yesterday, just a few years before I went to bed, so there's not much new to tell about the game. It goes on as usually. I will try to make at least 1000 inhabitants, just to see how it works in a large settlement. The pictures show, how my mining town evolves. This is real "time ageing", so I'm a little "scared" of the larger Bryggen houses for 6 and 7 inhabitants. I only build few of them. But I like the smaller ones and the stores and production buildings look great also without an apartment on top.

Tom Sawyer

Aww.. such a poor little Sweden, does not have enough people to beat 10 german guys. ;D

Nilla

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on June 24, 2018, 12:41:05 PM
Aww.. such a poor little Sweden, does not have enough people to beat 10 german guys. ;D
::) ha,ha,ha  ::) You don't think I have enough of these comments at home?  :-\

Things in Funsted aren't as bright as they were. You can see the graphs at the first picture. What has happened?

I found the store of food was too big, so the drop is deliberate; I have bought less food, than the people need and I haven't increased any food processing for quite some time. So that graph causes me no worries. The drop by the dalers however, is a problem. Buying less food, than I need and daler dropping, that's certainly no good combination. What will happen now, when I want to buy more food, to keep the store at this level. It will not work. Soon there will be no daler left.

What's the probelm?
I don't think, that I have too little export goods. The tool production often stands still, because I've reached the limit of 6000 tools. But there isn't enough merchants, who want to buy the main export product; tools and those who arrive, mostly bring too few daler. This merchant bring 186 daler and I have 1400 tools to sell.  :-\(second picture) I have now built another 3 large trading ports, I'm not sure, that it's enough. I've also built one more small port for import of food and will probably need a couple of more, to be able to continue autotrade. Here is the problem, that if I order food, the port is too small to buy everything.

So, if I want to reach my 1000 inhabitants, I think trading port spamming is the only way to make it in this game, and I'm not sure, I like that. There's a second thing, that also makes it more difficult (and not so fun) to continue this game; the bug by the coal pit: Upgrading doesn't work and you can't demolish a small pit and build a new one on that spot (that's the way it should be so, no complains about that). The first pit is already expired, the rest will follow soon. No fun to need to build new ones and have all these ruins in the settlement. You can see many of the pits in the first picture.

What would be needed, to be able to build a larger settlement based on industrial production in the North without this trading port spamming?
I'm not sure. Would it be fun, to always have enough merchants, who buy all things you have for a good price? I would say; not really, not challenging enough. I also like the "gambling" part of the Nordic trade; sell now to a lower price or take the risk to wait and get more. But on the other hand, I don't think, that the profit of these trading goods are high enough, to use for barter trade to a lower price. No obvious solution. I will play a bit more tonight and think, how I would like it, in a game like this.

Third picture
I don't think it's good, that the mine can store this much lamp oil. Of course, the production will not be interrupted often, to go and search for lampoil. But here there's nothing left for the new mine. You'll need a huge surplus, if you want several mines.

rkelly17

Quote from: Nilla on June 25, 2018, 02:08:35 AM
But there isn't enough merchants, who want to buy the main export product; tools

I think trading port spamming is the only way to make it in this game, and I'm not sure, I like that

This is why I always trade ale, beer, wine tequila, etc. I mean, who doesn't want to buy booze?

There was a time when I spammed trading posts mercilessly. Two things "forced" me to change tactics: (1) That horrible donging noise the game makes whenever a trader shows up sent me around the bend; (2) My water front looked really ugly with TPs lining both sides of the whole river. Well, there was also the issue that, given my trading habits, half the map was taken up with alcohol production. I was so happy when modders came up with specialized trading posts. Now I can do with 5 what used to take 30. That, of course, may not apply at all to the mod you are playing.

Nilla

@rkelly17, first not all merchant pay a decent price for alcohol in the North. Second, there are better goods to sell; ale is only worth 2 (and some merchants only pay 1). You can make more valuable hard booze but the problem is; to make it, you'll need fruit and fruit is expensive in the North; it's worth 5. And the orchards give less fruit than vanilla.

In the North there are two different trading ports; the big one look like a vanilla port, but totally different merchants arrive and there's a small, very nice looking port with its own merchants. To spam the map with such ports would not look all too bad. A good "city builder" would probably even make the trading area look very nice. And of course; the prices are totally different from vanilla and some merchant pay the full price, other 20-100% less. The picture shows two small ports close to eachother.

rkelly17

Quote from: Nilla on June 25, 2018, 01:23:13 PM
@rkelly17, first not all merchant pay a decent price for alcohol in the North. Second, there are better goods to sell; ale is only worth 2 (and some merchants only pay 1).

My goodness! Such Puritanical merchants! They must be Pietists from Norway.  :P  It would be a very different challenge from other versions of Banished. It is amazing how the community of modders has created so much variety for the game.

Nilla

I've never heard of Norwegian Pietists. We have expensive alcohol in Sweden, in the South we all go to Denmark or Germany for shopping, if we can. In Norway it's even more expensive. The Norwegians come to us, to buy alcohol. So no, these merchants who pay so little are not Norwegians, I'm pretty sure of that! ;)

I've been thinking a bit about, how I would like to see the trade. I don't find, that you should make all too many changes in the trade @Tom Sawyer. Although this game shows its limits in a larger industrial town, this is not a regular Nordic game. Also on harsh where you need to buy a lot of food, you will never need to sell so much of one single product, as I do here with tools. At least I never do, I rather sell a number of different products. I like the "dynamic" of the trade in the North, with large and small ports, different merchants who pay different, the possibility to "buy" daler in the big ports. I don't like to see any basic changes in this, but I have a few smaller suggestions.

- Increase the number of daler, when the population grows a bit more. Maybe it's easier if you take away the pennig. I know, I protested last time you took them away, but I think, to that time you didn't had silver worth 10. I find it's enough for "small change". This way you could also win a free flag for something else.
- Take away the timber merchant. You might be able to sell a small amount of logs a short time early in the game, but soon enough, you'll need the logs for other things; firewood for fuel and input in many production sites. In my games I'm rather short on logs, than have a surplus to sell. If you like to, include logs for a good price by one of the other merchants.
- Increase the storage capacity of the small trading dock so much, that you can buy a full boatload of food.(I think 9000 + some spare daler. This would improve the possibilities to autotrade for food and other supply like salt in the smaller ports also in a larger settlement.

Instead @Discrepancy, I would add an export harbour to the Industrial mining mod. If I look at this industrial mod, it adds a lot of challenges to the game; especially if you use the modded happiness system. If you want to use these industries as main support of a settlement, I don't think we need a complicated trading system, where you have to spam the map with ports to increase the probability that the right merchants come often enough. I find, it would be good if you can sell "selected export goods" for daler. I like it to be possible to sell by autotrading. This can only work, if the merchants buy these "selected goods" to the higher price. If you want to have different merchants, I would like that they only buy one kind of products, not like the merchants who arrive to the Nordic ports; buying everything but only paying good for a few things. If you want to add some ports in your very nice style, where food can be imported, I would appreciate it, but it's not as necessary as an export port. You can use the original Nordic ports for import and to sell other, not industrial products.

Picture
I guess I could need a few more trading ports but this will be enough. The population is 834 now and I have daler in my ports and food in my stores, so there might be 1000 inhabitants after all.

A quest; how many different ways to build a farmer's workshop can you see on this picture. None of it is the way it's supposed to be built. Some look alright others not so.....

Nilla

Things may turn fast. This time I don't mean Banished, even though it can be said about some towns, too. I'm talking about World Cup Football!  ;D :D ;D :D Some days ago we were beaten by the Germans, yesterday we won 3-0 against Mexico, won the group while Germany lost against Korea, was last and can go home. Sorry German friends.

Not much time to play Banished; sun and full cherry trees in the day, football in the afternoon and evening.

I made this screenshot for @brads3, just to say; if you want to go on with your town until everyone is educated, you'll have to play it a long time. I built schools very early for a Nordic game and also stopped taking new nomads many centuries ago, maybe around year 30.

Tom Sawyer

What a world cup do you mean? Did I miss something?^^

To your points. I also think that trading balance is rather good and not necessary to support 1000 people by food imports with unspoilt shores in harsh climate. I like food supply to be a natural limitation far north and that big towns can better grow in mild climate with self-sufficiency by farming.

The timber trader can be removed but actually I like to support the typical trade goods of the North and on other maps without your focus in industrial development and big population it can be a main export. Btw, the timber guy also likes to buy alcohol and fuels including charcoal. My actual idea is to build a specialized timber trading post for these merchants.

The penny I would not like to remove. We tried it some time ago and you started to use fish as small coins. But I think about putting it together with dalers or silver or another way to free this flag.

Why so much lamp oil is stored in the mine, I don't know. Maybe many miners had this thought at the same time and every guy can carry 100 oil. They should stop carrying it until it's needed again. To limit the capacity of the mine is not a good thing because they can go crazy when logs or oil cannot be stored anymore.

brads3

but but if i stop you and gatherer will get mad. i am surprised the education level has climbed quickly. i don't think it will get all the way to 100%.

                      pace is slow as we have used stone and iron up. i also found issues with TOM's flags that have me scratching my head. i am already thinking and planning the next map.