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Started by solarscreen, May 16, 2014, 07:34:51 PM

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Kaldir

Quote from: slink on May 18, 2014, 01:17:00 PM[..] What fool runs an game upgrade without saving a copy of the un-patched game and all of the saves, anyway? [..]

My guess would be: more than 90%  ;D


Quote from: slink on May 18, 2014, 01:17:00 PM[..] Basically, he has more Steam users than non-Steam users and he is putting his effort into pleasing the greater number of users [..]

I don't see what putting up a beta patch has to do with pleasing people. He got that patch out for testing, and needed a testing audience. It's not like he gave part of the community new toys while denying them to others. It might feel that way, sure. But it's not what a beta test is all about.

mariesalias

#16
Quote from: slink on May 18, 2014, 01:26:02 PM
Good thing you didn't put quotes around it since you added the word "and".   ;D

Indeed! Honestly, I could not remember the proper process for inserting into a quotation and was too lazy to look it up. Very sad, as I was a Communications and English major in college. The internet has sorely decayed my skills. Good thing I kept all my old Grammar textbooks so I can brush up occasionally. ;D  (I am also quite talented at missing typos!)


@solarscreen  I did not think you were disparaging on Luke. We love this game and so we want it to be here for us! I completely understand. From my point-of-view, I have been following his work for years now and he has proven to me that he is dedicated to this project so I have no doubt in him completing it.  Perhaps I am being naive and trusting him too much though?

"Twice the feedback - twice the testing - twice the attention for a successful correction of issues.  Win - Win."

Yes, but also twice the confusion, twice the QQ, twice the amount of information to wade through. As you say, he is a busy man. Although it may not seem it, beta-testing on Steam probably was the more simple and less time-consuming choice. I would not not take this to mean though that he means to discard his Stand-Alone users. :)

One thing I have noticed is that since installing the Steam version on my computer, I have been having issues with my Stand Alone version. I have seen others post about this too. So this may be what is delaying the patch being released. Maybe something about it does not want to play nice with both versions? Or there is a conflict between having both installed that was unanticipated. Until this patch, no one really had much reason to install both on their computers.

Kaldir

Quote from: mariesalias on May 18, 2014, 01:58:38 PM[..] One thing I have noticed is that since installing the Steam version on my computer, I have been having issues with my Stand Alone version. I have seen others post about this too. So this may be what is delaying the patch being released. Maybe something about it does not want to play nice with both versions? Or there is a conflict between having both installed that was unanticipated. Until this patch, no one really had much reason to install both on their computers.


Both installed copies will probably use the same configuration settings in the Windows registry, and that could cause a conflict maybe. Although those settings are pretty minimal.
And the Menu.msc file located amongst the save games could give issues, since handling it is different between 1.0.0 and 1.0.2.

mariesalias

#18
Quote from: Kaldir on May 18, 2014, 02:05:44 PM
Both installed copies will probably use the same configuration settings in the Windows registry, and that could cause a conflict maybe. Although those settings are pretty minimal.
And the Menu.msc file located amongst the save games could give issues, since handling it is different between 1.0.0 and 1.0.2.

Yeah, it seemed to me like there might be some kind of conflict possible, I asked my husband and he assured me there wouldn't be.  He is MUCH more computer savvy then I am so I took his word for it. He is just lucky they didn't both get messed up! If i need to, I will uninstall the Steam version and just use the Stand Alone version, though I do like having the Steam version available to do my challenges on.

slink

@mariesalias: For sales purposes I would count you as both Steam and non-Steam.  I doubt if sales numbers can distinguish between two copies sold to the same person and two copies sold to two different people.  Even if you only bought one copy but play it both ways, you might get counted twice.  You would certainly get counted as a Steam user because you have a key.  Some people who bought through Humble also got Steam keys, so non-Steam players may be only a calculated difference between total sales and Steam keys sold.

@solarscreen:

"Above all, I am not disparaging the dev or doubting his word.

HOWEVER:

I do think it is possible that Steam will be the sole outlet for this game in the future."

You can't have it both ways.  Either you expect him to keep faith with all of his customers, or not.  According to your post, you expect not.  It's your right to express your opinion of his future behavior, and mine to express mine of him if that eventuality comes to pass.

Only time will tell what happens.

@Kaldir:

"I don't see what putting up a beta patch has to do with pleasing people. He got that patch out for testing, and needed a testing audience. It's not like he gave part of the community new toys while denying them to others. It might feel that way, sure. But it's not what a beta test is all about."

No question that he gave an improved toy to part of the community and denied it to the rest.  If he really wanted a small beta-testing audience, he should have given the beta patch only to non-Steam users.  He didn't want that.  He wanted to give it to the largest group, to subdue the most complaining about the broken stone roads and the starvation on large maps among other fixes which I could readily profit from having.  I have kept silent about that, after my initial minor grumbling when it was first announced.  But having @solarscreen say that in the future he expected Banished content to only be available for Steam users got me stirred up again about it.

canis39

No one actually knows anything.  It's all speculation at this point.  I don't really understand getting riled up about speculation.

Also, a beta test is not a "new toy".  This particular patch seems to be working, so I guess it might feel that way to non-testers.  But what if it were failing miserably, causing Steam users' games to crash incessantly?  Would the non-Steam users still feel left out?  Doubtful.  They'd probably feel some empathy, but I don't imagine too many of them would be clamoring to try out the patch.

Kaldir

Quote from: slink on May 18, 2014, 02:40:01 PM[..] got me stirred up again about it.
I noticed  ;D

Let's just hope the official patch comes out soon, to end the uncertainty and to provide new toys for all.

slink

Quote from: canis39 on May 18, 2014, 03:02:11 PM
No one actually knows anything.  It's all speculation at this point.  I don't really understand getting riled up about speculation.

Also, a beta test is not a "new toy".  This particular patch seems to be working, so I guess it might feel that way to non-testers.  But what if it were failing miserably, causing Steam users' games to crash incessantly?  Would the non-Steam users still feel left out?  Doubtful.  They'd probably feel some empathy, but I don't imagine too many of them would be clamoring to try out the patch.

Why would I feel empathy for someone who is playing with a new toy that turned out not to work as expected?  It's not like their OS got damaged.  It's just an "oops".

I don't understand posting baseless speculation affecting only a part of the user base, but I'm not above getting riled up about it.  For what other reason was it posted?  ???  However, I'm done now.  Hope @solarscreen got his money's worth.   ;D


solarscreen

Well, I wasn't trying to start anything, just thinking out loud.

I don't think it's baseless, as I explained before.  I can have it both ways too because delivering the patch by any means is delivering the patch.  I have a steam key, I would rather not play it that way but I can.

I certainly don't want to create activity here by creating controversy.

I'll think quieter next time.
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Kaldir

Isn't a forum an especially good place to speculate about what is going to happen next? To see how different people feel about it, and what their opinion is? Opinions might lead to controversy sometimes though.

Personally I hope the "fear" for controversy will not lead to people keeping quiet.

salamander

Quote from: Kaldir on May 19, 2014, 12:10:28 AM
Personally I hope the "fear" for controversy will not lead to people keeping quiet.

Couldn't agree more.  Parts of this topic stand to affect everyone who has bought the game, whether the stand-alone or Steam version, and I've appreciated being able to see other opinions and perspectives.  The fact that discussions of 'controversial topics' among this group are handled with maturity and respect for other's views makes it that much better.

mariesalias

Quote from: solarscreen on May 18, 2014, 06:05:47 PM
Well, I wasn't trying to start anything, just thinking out loud.

I don't think it's baseless, as I explained before.  I can have it both ways too because delivering the patch by any means is delivering the patch.  I have a steam key, I would rather not play it that way but I can.

I certainly don't want to create activity here by creating controversy.

I'll think quieter next time.


I hope you will not "think quieter next time"! I agree with Kaldir, forums are great places to discuss things like this and get different opinions! We all come at any topic with our own observations, point-of-views, and experiences, I always enjoy seeing everyone's thoughts on topics, even if mine are different!

What I don't like is when discussions end up devolving into insults and superior-then-thou attitudes. I can not see that happening here. Which is one reason I already love this forum! Controversy of itself is not bad, but how people react and participate in it. Discussion is good! I sincerely hope you will not feel a need to censor yourself in the future! :)

I know I sometimes come off more severe then I intend to; it is a constant bane to me, as it is so rarely my attention and I feel like I should be able to avoid giving that impression by now. And if I have done so here, I do apologize. I love debate and discussion and find them wonderful learning opportunities! And I enjoy hearing/reading other people's opinions just as much. 

My father instilled in me the idea that to make the best-informed decisions in life, you should gain as many opinions and facts as possible in a situation. Often we tend to think our reasoning is the only one that makes sense because we become so emotionally involved (I am not so much referring to this topic specifically as life in general). I have so often found myself seeing things from a fresh perspective when I listen to other's opinions and thoughts! Most of the worst mistakes I've made in life have been because I refused to listen to anyone but my own thoughts or did not make a decision at all (which in itself is a decision).