World of Banished

All The Rest => Off Topic => Topic started by: A Nonny Moose on September 13, 2015, 02:52:27 PM

Title: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 13, 2015, 02:52:27 PM
There are at least two players using Linux, so I felt an entry would be useful here.

I am using Ubuntu 15.04 currently with wine-1.7.50.  A 32-bit prefix in Windows 7 decor.  I use a single prefix for all programs I run and develop scripts to run them.

I am not necessarily a model for users because I am an old sweat UNIX user among other things and really prefer command line operations to GUI for things like this.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 14, 2015, 08:42:04 AM
Taking it over here then (won't there be fewer eyes  though?)

I'm using LInux Mint 17.1 Cinnamon, which is based on Ubuntu 14.04. Playing the game via PlayOnLinux, and installed using the script provided by them (or rather some user). Everything appeared fine to begin with, but after playing for a few hours, with some mods, the game started crashing. I think it occurs during autosaving, but am not 100% sure. Naturally I have a crash dump file, but unless your name is Luke (the coder) I guess it's of little value.

Don't know what is wrong, but would really like to fix it so I can play this game in Linux. I do have dual boot with Win 7, but haven't booted up that vile thing in months, practically since I made the (hopefully final!) switch to Linux.

Not sure if connected, but I noticed that if I ESC to the menu during play, the music will stop playing, and never seems to get started again. This happened on Windows too I recall, but the music would start playing again there, after a little time.

I'm not very proficient with terminal and scripts, but what can I do to get a log of events so it can be easier to trace down what causes these crashes?
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 14, 2015, 09:51:13 AM
Gotta run off to vote now, there's a local election here in Norway, but I hope this will work.

Noticed the install only had the Application file, not the x32 or x64 versions. So I copied them over from a zip from the latest patch, plus all other files. Perhaps the GOG version is totally updated by their internal magic, but in any case, the patch0 and patch1.pkgs were really small, so I copied over the other ones. Then deleted the DX11 files. Will play when I get home, and hope it's possible to play longer than 5-10 mins without a crash.

:please:


edit:
Very quick test, which went straight to hell :( Loaded the game, saved and tried to quit. Crash. FFS :(
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 14, 2015, 01:46:25 PM
I was under the impression that mods turned off the autosave.  Or maybe the word was that it must be turned off if you run with mods.

Anyway, I have it turned off, and the game runs for hours.  I have only half a dozen mods since I am not interested in turning this into some other game.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 15, 2015, 07:16:52 AM
I don't get it. Was finally able to play for hours upon hours yesterday without any hickups (missing music aside). Suddenly the game crashes (not when autosaving) and after that I couldn't even load the save. Gave up and turned off the computer. Today the game crash before being able to select a save game to load. I hit the "Load" button, and BAM.

I'm not playing with a zillion mods either, at least mods that make significant changes. I quite like the game the way it was made. In total there are a fair few (around 10), but most of them make very small changes, like muting the livestock, muting the wind, making orchards live longer, etc. However, this time I  included the root cellar, grain silo, monastery and college. Have built two root cellars, but none of the others.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 15, 2015, 09:34:45 AM
Hmmm.  How often do you save?  I try to do it once an hour.

Some games do a general garbage collect during the save process, and I am wondering if you somehow didn't get properly garbage collected.  Did you try to open an earlier save?  I don't overwrite saves having absolutely tons of disk space, I don't worry about it.

However, if I abandon a game (I only work one village at a time), I have a script that deletes everything in the save directory.  Here it is, if it will help you.

john@john-12-10:~$ cat bin/wipeBanished
#!/bin/bash
rm ~/Banished/Save/*.sav
echo Banished wiped

Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 15, 2015, 10:30:15 AM
I make manual saves now and then, and happen to have one about half an hour prior to the last autosave. Same result there, though, the game crashes while loading it. Very frustrating if that save is lost entirely, after spending hours on it and playing almost 20 years (I play at 2x).

Here are the mods I used. Don't think they should mess things up, but maybe you guys will know better. I've been away from the game for almost a year after all.

Betterfields (I had 3 small cropfields and a few pastures as the merchant dropped by with livestock)
Bobbi doctor house (not yet built a hospital)
College (not built)
Grain silo (not built)
Irrelevant tweak crops (3 cropfields, I started with pepper and pumpkin)
LongerLivingOrchards (my own, they live ~20 years)
Monastery (not built, do books actually do anything?)
MuteLivestock (active as I have some livestock now)
NoWind (my own, it simply turns off the annoying wind effect)
Rootcellar (I have built two root cellars)
Season2Year (changes a text field, hardly intrusive stuff)
Warehouse (not built)


Suppose I should back up the saves and try to reinstall and hope that goes better, considering loading earlier saves doesn't work either.

I really hope Luke hasn't abandoned this game, and that he'll eventually make a Linux (and Mac) version of the game. Last blog update almost 6 months ago :(


-----
Tried to load a very old savegame, but with the same crashing result. After a few seconds, the guy 'mining' in the loading screen stops moving, and at that point everything has crashed, and there is an error message in the same workspace as the game is in ('behind' the game, in fullscreen). The game doesn't CTD, so I manually need to exit it.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 15, 2015, 02:33:00 PM
Finally found a save that works, at least it loaded without crashing, but it's so far back I may as well not bother, particularly as I don't know what is causing these issues, and whether it will occur again.

Just when things were finally starting to get interesting :(

Don't want to get into such a rut again, so probably best to just let this game be, and hope Luke hasn't moved on to other things.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 15, 2015, 04:03:05 PM
I really think you need to turn autosave off.  If you have to, get yourself a minute minder that rings after the set interval, and no matter what's going on in the game, do a save then.

I've been playing this since it came out, and haven't had any crashes.  I've been applying updates as they come out to the O/S and to wine.  Currently I am on Ubuntu 15.04 with a 32-bit wine prefix running wine-1.7.50.  Runs very slowly, but it does run.  I do not run any other tasks or apps when running this program.

Luke will have a lot of trouble getting this program off of Visual Studio.  There is one heck of a learning curve getting to GDK 3 and the GNU programming environment with the gcc compiler.  The devhelp index is both baffling and opaque.  If he is lucky he should be able to get to a development suite that pretty much hides all this.  The recommended one is Eclipse.  There are several other IDEs, but this one seems to be the most comprehensive.  It defaults to Java, but can be made to use C++.

I've been following another developer who is making a new city simulation (citybound: http://community.simtropolis.com/forums/forum/265-citybound/ (http://community.simtropolis.com/forums/forum/265-citybound/) and after a really hot start, real life is getting in his way.  He got married and has moved a couple of times.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 04:14:06 AM
I really think you need to turn autosave off.

I tried that now. Still crashed. This time while trying to make a manual save.

Had started from scratch again on this map seed. Not built a single mod object yet, not even a betterfields farmcrop. Don't want to waste more time with this game if if just keeps crashing.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 08:09:15 AM
I'm stupidly persistent, so am trying once again. This time a clean install after wiping everything. Using wine 1.7.50. Installed DX9, xact, gdiplus, vcrun2010 (not sure if all are needed). Unlike before, there is a crackling sound. Anything I can do about that?

No idea if it's any more stable. Before it's been possible to play for hours, sometimes, and then it's like flicking a switch and nothing works.

Haven't replaced any files from patch zips or the ModKit, hoping that will help. May have done that the first time though, and it still crashed then. *gulp*

Only renamed the DX11 file. Does anything look wrong?
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 16, 2015, 08:20:45 AM
I haven't been able to get the game to recognize DX11 even running with W 7 decor.  And that reminds me that I have set the 64-bit prefix when I ran something else, so I will now reset that ... done.

If you are running with a 64-bit prefix you might consider changing to 32-bit. See http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#32_bit_wineprefix (http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#32_bit_wineprefix)

This means that you would have to load Banished in its 32-bit decor on this prefix, but I haven't had a problem with it.

BTW, how about a description of your machine?
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 09:58:31 AM
I'm not running with DX11, I just had that file highlighted because it's the only file I did anything to: I renamed it so that it won't be recognised (.bak).

The game crashed again anyway. This is pointless. Was during saving again, a manual save with autosaves turned off.

I'm fed up now. Bye guys. Hope Luke makes a Linux build at some point, if he is able and hasn't moved on.


Btw: my specs are
Intel i5 4670K CPU
8GB RAM (expensive when I bought a new computer not too long ago)
Nvidia GTX770 GPU.


Code: [Select]
pangaea@thunderstruck ~ $ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: thunderstruck Kernel: 3.13.0-37-generic x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2)
           Desktop: Gnome Distro: Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca
Machine:   Mobo: MSI model: Z87-G43 (MS-7816) version: 1.0 Bios: American Megatrends version: V1.6 date: 11/27/2013
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 27198.8
           Clock Speeds: 1: 800.00 MHz 2: 800.00 MHz 3: 800.00 MHz 4: 800.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 770] bus-ID: 01:00.0
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 346.82 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Card-2: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-37-generic
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2560.5GB (54.9% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST2000VX000 size: 2000.4GB
           2: id: /dev/sdb model: KINGSTON_SH103S3 size: 240.1GB 3: id: /dev/sdc model: ST3320620AS size: 320.1GB
Partition: ID: / size: 30G used: 7.9G (29%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: 141G used: 119G (90%) fs: ext4
           ID: swap-1 size: 1.08GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8C mobo: 27.8C gpu: 0.0:35C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 175 Uptime: 9:36 Memory: 1642.1/7929.6MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.4 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 16, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
About the only thing left to suggest is that you try it on a 32-bit prefix (with the 32-bit version) with no plugins on a clean install.

The fact that you can run sometimes and sometimes just crash is saying something that I hate to think of on a Linux distro:  Malware.  Have you installed CLAM-AV?
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
About the only thing left to suggest is that you try it on a 32-bit prefix (with the 32-bit version) with no plugins on a clean install.

The fact that you can run sometimes and sometimes just crash is saying something that I hate to think of on a Linux distro:  Malware.  Have you installed CLAM-AV?

Unless I have misunderstood something, I'm already running it in 32-bit. Playonlinux have both 32-bit versions and 64-bit versions (of wine), but I'm only using 32-bit versions.

Not tried ClamAV, but I can see if I find it and see. I don't get why this should be such a big problem, while many others, like you, can run it without any hickups. I've seen a few step by step guides too, and I've tried them, but it still crashes (usually when trying to save manually). No matter what I try, I get the same end result: crashes :(

Could try the Linux Mint forum too I suppose, but I suspect they'll just point me in the direction of Banished or POL support places. I simply don't get it. Everything seems to run perfectly, the missing music aside (the sound crackling disappeared, possibly due to installing mono210 component?). I can do everything, the game runs smooth, but suddenly it just crashes out of the blue. Horribly frustrating.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 03:58:57 PM
Fetched ClamAV and managed to update the database before scanning the computer. Didn't find anything on the linux partition, but did locate two files on the main data partition. Doesn't look like anything too dodgy, and it was in zip files of old files that haven't been used in probably years.

Code: [Select]
Found 2 possible threats (425461 files scanned).

/mnt/BigGun/# Software #/SopCast-3.5.0.zip                             Win.Worm.Runouce-456     
/mnt/BigGun/GOG Games/Backup/Baldur's Gate/mods/old/bgtrainer.zip      Trojan.Packed-4       

I deleted them, but I do doubt this will have caused the game to repeatedly crash, intermittently. It would actually be better if the game simply wouldn't run or the saves crashed instantly, as then I wouldn't invest hours upon hours into the saves first, and getting my hope up it actually works this time.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 16, 2015, 05:37:15 PM
Sheesh. Can't believe I'm still knocking my head against this wall. I even considered launching Windows to see if it works there (but got cold feet at the thought of all the updates that would needed installing, plus possibly other stuff as I've basically never used it beyond initial install and updates - at least 6 months ago).

I have wine separately installed from before, and after much mucking about got something called MapFinder for Civilization 4 working. wine is only version 1.6.2, but I'm a little worried about cleaning it out entirely and update, as MapFinder will surely go out the door then. It's something I need if I'm going to play for the Hall of Fame in that game again.

Anyway, does this look like a decent start, or should I be worried about those error messages, like the last one about 64 bit?

I did these first steps: http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#wineprefix (pts 7.1 and 7.2)

Code: [Select]
pangaea@thunderstruck ~ $ export WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-banished
pangaea@thunderstruck ~ $ wine winecfg
wine: created the configuration directory '/home/pangaea/.wine-banished'
fixme:urlmon:DownloadBSC_OnProgress Unsupported status 3
fixme:wininet:InternetLockRequestFile STUB
fixme:storage:create_storagefile Storage share mode not implemented.
err:mscoree:LoadLibraryShim error reading registry key for installroot
err:mscoree:LoadLibraryShim error reading registry key for installroot
err:mscoree:LoadLibraryShim error reading registry key for installroot
err:mscoree:LoadLibraryShim error reading registry key for installroot
fixme:storage:create_storagefile Storage share mode not implemented.
err:winediag:SECUR32_initNTLMSP ntlm_auth was not found or is outdated. Make sure that ntlm_auth >= 3.0.25 is in your path. Usually, you can find it in the winbind package of your distribution.
fixme:iphlpapi:NotifyAddrChange (Handle 0x114e2b8, overlapped 0x114e2d0): stub
p11-kit: couldn't load module: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkcs11/p11-kit-trust.so: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkcs11/p11-kit-trust.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
fixme:storage:create_storagefile Storage share mode not implemented.
err:winediag:SECUR32_initNTLMSP ntlm_auth was not found or is outdated. Make sure that ntlm_auth >= 3.0.25 is in your path. Usually, you can find it in the winbind package of your distribution.
fixme:iphlpapi:NotifyAddrChange (Handle 0x10fe890, overlapped 0x10fe89c): stub
wine: configuration in '/home/pangaea/.wine-banished' has been updated.
p11-kit: couldn't load module: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkcs11/p11-kit-trust.so: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/pkcs11/p11-kit-trust.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
fixme:winediag:AUDDRV_GetAudioEndpoint Winepulse is not officially supported by the wine project
fixme:winediag:AUDDRV_GetAudioEndpoint For sound related feedback and support, please visit http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1960599
fixme:msg:pack_message msg 14 (WM_ERASEBKGND) not supported yet
pangaea@thunderstruck ~ $ WINEARCH=win32 WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-banished winecfg
wine: WINEARCH set to win32 but '/home/pangaea/.wine-banished' is a 64-bit installation.

During those first three fixme lines, mono was downloaded and (hopefully) installed.

If this is entirely gibberish to others too, I'm kind of lost at sea :D
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 17, 2015, 08:51:20 AM
The only thing I think we haven't checked is your game version.  I am running 1.04 Build 141103.

As far as I know, this is the latest.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 17, 2015, 09:29:23 AM
That is the one I'm running too, the latest from GOG.

Managed to get it running from 'normal' wine yesterday, but couldn't get any sound. Then started the POL version and tried a game without any mods. It's gone fine so far, but I'm only in year 6 or thereabouts, and typically the game has crashed later than that. It probably will again, but at least it was nice to play for some hours yesterday, despite "heart in throat" every time I manually saved.

Wish we could get to the bottom of this so I could play without crashes for truly long games (100+ years), but looks like it's beyond my abilities. I don't know enough about linux and don't know why it keeps crashing.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 17, 2015, 03:29:34 PM
Something @Paeng said in another thread triggered me to think that perhaps you might be having Registry trouble.  He seems to think that Banished and the Registry are not happy campers together.

I am using Windows 7 decor on my 32-bit prefix, and I don't change it.  Apparently adding mods to the game may raise problems with the registry.  Take a look at the discussion in the regular forum above on funny things arriving in a non-modded game.

I never run without the mods I've selected.

You do know that you can look at the Registry that wine prepares to hoax the programs.  Just open a console and type in: wine regedit
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 17, 2015, 06:02:48 PM
Sure as the sun is warm, it crashed again - twice. First time I was very lucky because I had just saved, and just clicked the Save button again to see the gap between the last few saves. Next time I lost half an hour of playtime (crashed when I attempted to save, before the actual saving), including getting chickens from a trader and frantically building a pen before they die. This last time there oddly wasn't an error message, and the game is still open, although unresponsive.

I actually cleared the registry yesterday. Had another look right now and there were some modIndex lines (in HKEY_USER), although everything looks in order, with a count from 0 to 11. I deleted them, though.

So... despite playing without any mods, the game still crashes. Did I tell you this was frustrating? :(

With decor, do you mean the below? I've used Windows XP so far because it's the default, but I can try Win 7 of course, and hope that somehow helps. Had a slight hope it was the mods that did it (despite it running fine with the same mods before, in Windows), but when the clean game crashes too, I'm out of ideas.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 18, 2015, 08:13:14 AM
Exactly.  (http://i.imgur.com/l69GzGP.jpg)

There may be some differences because I use a common prefix and have several apps loaded.

I just started up Banished when something else occurred to me.  Banished is very sensitive to losing focus while in game mode.  I have it suspended at the moment in options mode, but I have had instances of the game hanging if focus is removed (by switching desktops, for example) while the game is running.  This usually hangs my whole machine and I have to seize control and boot.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Paeng on September 18, 2015, 12:41:01 PM
Something Paeng said in another thread triggered me to think that perhaps you might be having Registry trouble.
Well, I don't have the first idea about Linux, so I don't know how much Win Registry figures...  :-[

Here are the links to two articles that list and describe many of the known problem -

http://banishedpeople.freeforums.org/about-fatal-error-in-runtime-x64-and-more-t109.html
and
http://banishedpeople.freeforums.org/starting-a-new-game-without-crash-t268.html


Hopefully you find something useful there  :)
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 18, 2015, 03:37:59 PM
And here is something I found in another list in this forum.

http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1023.msg19258#msg19258 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1023.msg19258#msg19258)
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 19, 2015, 12:38:33 AM
Thanks guys. I actually came across the first link by @Paeng when searching for solutions over the last few days, very good stuff. Unfortunately nothing works on my end. Tried Windows 7 decor, but that totally messed up the sound for some reason. Tried a restart with nothing else open (or even run prior to the game), but it didn't help. Turned it back to Win XP and that fixed the sound issue. But first time I went to save, after maybe 20 mins of playing, the game crashed. That's with no mods, and I've only played to year 15-16, with a population of ~75.

Playing without mods is kind of frustrating anyway, with the few sheep I have screeching every 2 seconds, and the barns filling up in no time. That's why I wanted to play with the grain silo and the root cellar, to make food storage easier.

I keep coming back again and again, hoping it will work, but after trying so many things it's probably time for that idiot quote about trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. :(
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 19, 2015, 01:03:38 PM
As an experiment, I started a new town today on Windows 7 decor, played for an hour.  Then I reset to XP, and played for an hour.  No difference, no sound (yes I have the 2010 distro), and as near as i can tell, no difference.  (All on easy with large map).

I did try that trick of putting a fishing shack on an island (used the 1008 key) with a bridge to land, and the fish are rolling in gaily.  Kept my village alive in the first year when they didn't get all the crops in on time.

I am beginning to suspect that the problems @Pangaea is having are related to his machine rather than to the game.  If anyone wants to see it, here is my hardware configuration: http://www.ezlink.ca/~jwinterton/Hardware2.html (http://www.ezlink.ca/~jwinterton/Hardware2.html)

This Linux output is from the lshw command but to get this huge list you need to actually run it in super user state:  sudo lshw -html $>output.file
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 20, 2015, 11:38:59 AM

I am beginning to suspect that the problems @Pangaea is having are related to his machine rather than to the game.  If anyone wants to see it, here is my hardware configuration: http://www.ezlink.ca/~jwinterton/Hardware2.html (http://www.ezlink.ca/~jwinterton/Hardware2.html)

This Linux output is from the lshw command but to get this huge list you need to actually run it in super user state:  sudo lshw -html $>output.file

That could be a distinct possibility at this stage, as nothing seems to work. I had to remove the $ to get the code to work on my end (otherwise an empty file was created), but if it's possible to see any faults with my HW, then please take a gander at the attached file.

This is what I have with inxi -Fxz, which is recommended on the Linux Mint forums for getting help. Not as detailed, but easier to read.
Code: [Select]
System:    Host: thunderstruck Kernel: 3.13.0-37-generic x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2)
           Desktop: Gnome Distro: Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca
Machine:   Mobo: MSI model: Z87-G43 (MS-7816) version: 1.0 Bios: American Megatrends version: V1.6 date: 11/27/2013
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 27201.3
           Clock Speeds: 1: 800.00 MHz 2: 800.00 MHz 3: 800.00 MHz 4: 800.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 770] bus-ID: 01:00.0
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 346.82 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Card-2: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-37-generic
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2560.5GB (55.0% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST2000VX000 size: 2000.4GB temp: 39C
           2: id: /dev/sdb model: KINGSTON_SH103S3 size: 240.1GB temp: 34C 3: id: /dev/sdc model: ST3320620AS size: 320.1GB temp: 41C
Partition: ID: / size: 30G used: 7.9G (29%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: 141G used: 122G (92%) fs: ext4
           ID: swap-1 size: 1.08GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8C mobo: 27.8C gpu: 0.0:32C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 168 Uptime: 2:13 Memory: 1560.7/7929.6MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.4 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4

Linux Mint can be upgraded to 17.2 as I'm running 17.1 right now, but there doesn't appear to be much of a change so I haven't upgraded. Everything is stable (Banished aside), so figured I didn't want to possibly break what wasn't broken.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 20, 2015, 01:13:09 PM
If you have the spare disk space, why not download Ubuntu 15.04 and give it a whirl.  Not a lot different from Mint, but I prefer the front end of the horse when working with something as mysterious as this.  Dual booting doesn't need all that much space, and you can share your files.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 20, 2015, 02:38:10 PM
I chose Mint because I didn't want to use Ubuntu. They have made some decisions I don't agree with, that to me goes against what Linux should be about. I'd also need to change the partitions a bit, and I'm nervous for stuff like that, with a need to reduce active partitions with content. Unless it would work with a live CD. It might, but there could be problems with that too, of course, like slow-downs due to the OS being on a CD/DVD.

Guess I'll just have to live with the game not running properly on my PC for whatever reason. I do wonder if it could be sound related, because sometimes there is a crackling sound when I run Civilization 4, a bit similar to when I tried Banished in Win 7 decor.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 21, 2015, 12:34:49 PM
Interesting comment because Mint is dependent on Ubuntu unless they've changed since last I loaded it.

I doubt you can load wine on the hot disk, but it might be worth a try.  I would certainly update Mint to the very latest level.  Any Linux is an ongoing release candidate no matter what anyone says, so you might get an inadvertent fix.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 22, 2015, 12:42:26 PM
Linux Mint is still built on Ubuntu/Debian, that is true, but there are some significant changes too. Did a little reading and it looks like Ubuntu may have made the "phoning home" opt-in now, but still, I don't like it and won't use it. Also like the UI of Mint much better. Perhaps a Windows sickness, but I like to have a menu in the bottom left :D

Admittedly the situation may be a little different now, since the last time I tried a non-Mint Linux distro was a couple of years ago, but back then it was a real hassle to get basic things working, so for me as more or less a noob to Linux, it's easier with Mint because so many things come pre-installed, like codecs and drivers.

Could well be I should just upgrade to 17.2. I've been worried it would mess up some things, like primarily the Civ 4 installation, which was a bit of a pain to get working properly.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 23, 2015, 11:01:43 AM
I wouldn't worry too much if you have your Civ installation working under wine.  It should be static under the Mint upgrade.  I've been on Ubuntu for quite a while and it has developed quite a bit.  It now asks permission to phone home even for a crash.  Here is a shot of my desktop with the launcher showing (normally hidden on the left).

(http://i.imgur.com/bDvFLf8.jpg)

I don't mind having the panel at the top, but I do turn on the general menu (red dot).
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Paeng on September 24, 2015, 07:12:23 AM
urks... your discussion reminds me why I never warmed up to any Linux system... and I tried a few (some years ago, though)...

But recent developments around Win10 are so alarming --built-in key loggers, dozens of un-blockable host names that are connecting on their own, and such-- that some German Universities have already prohibited win10 use on any of their networks...


I started reading up on some stuff again... still, alone the language used around Linux is putting me off, it's so horribly "geeky" - sorry guys, nothing personal  :) - but an operating system that forces users to communicate in code snippets is just not feasible for "ordinary mortals"...

That really worries me - unless there is some usable alternative once MS stops support for win7, I see myself returning to pen and paper for anything but some basic forum communication...  :-\


Is there any hope for stuff like X Windows or Wayland to become a new standard in a time near enough for us to still use it?

Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 24, 2015, 09:36:44 AM
@Paeng old friend, fear not.  Ubuntu is one of the answers. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop (http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop)

Things have really developed over the years.  Sure I am a geek, and I like consoles, but that is because I grew up toggling programs into machine in machine code, and thought assemblers were the last word in software. (1965)

Ubuntu using X-org is very much like Windows for the regular user who doesn't want to be bothered with stuff outside the Graphic User Interface.  It is, perhaps, a little more sophisticated than the marching morons of Redmond, WA could ever anticipate, but that is due to its being derived from UNIX which was in business long before Bill Gates was out of short pants.  And before Bell pulled out of Project MAC at M.I.T. the forerunner was the Desk Side Computer System (DSCS) which was based on Multics (Multiplexed Computer System).  UNIX, by the way, actually means Uniplexed Computer System, but most of us old guard Multicians pronounced it as if it were the noun for a harem guard.

Like any other GUI system, of course, a program being launched by Ubuntu (or Mint or Debian) uses a short script that you don't ever need to see.  There is about a one-day learning curve for users who want to use the Internet (Firefox, Chromium, Empathy) and e-mail (Thunderbird, Empathy).  You really don't have to know anything about the system other than it will do what you want, when you want, and doesn't have a license fee for individuals.

Now, if you want to access a Windows file, go right ahead.  gvfs the GNU Virtual File System handles many different file layouts and decors including NTFS.  You just have to tell it that that disk partition over there is NTFS, and all is cool.  This makes dual boot with both Windows and a Linux decor a push over.  If you do that as part of your install, you will also get GRUB the Grand Unified Bootloader which will normally choose the last Linux system loaded, but you have 10 seconds to just cursor down to cancel the timer, when you can then choose among the bootload options.

Of course, you only get GRUB if you choose a dual boot.  Take the tour, link above.

You can see from the tour that obtaining the software is pretty easy.  You download the ISO, pick up its checksum (MD5) given on the site, burn it onto a DVD, then boot your machine with the DVD (or memory stick) loaded.  The system loads 100% into memory and will not affect your disks unless you install and give instructions.  You can play with this test system to your heart's content.  It knows nothing about your storage devices unless you tell it, which is probably more than you'd like to do.

After your test run, you can pull the media and boot your old system or use one of three choices to install Ubuntu:


I would chose option 2 provided you have that extra partition.  The system will make another partition for swap space, because swap space is a partition on Linux.  Mine, by the way, is 20GB.

Once you get installed you should request an update.  There will be lots of them if you pick a release that is not the immediate one, because you get a couple (you choose to get them and how) every week or so.  Linux like other systems is an ongoing project, and new features and fixes show up regularly.

I haven't said anything about the Office suite.  It is Libre Office, and it quite happily reads in stuff from MS Office.  However, it uses the ISO (proposed?) standard formats.  You can write several different MS Office formats at need. https://www.libreoffice.org/ (https://www.libreoffice.org/)

If you go this route, you will find yourself in a system that is essentially in the public domain but very, very secure.  There is a firewall (ufw) and a virus scanner (CLAM-AV) but also a kernel item called apparmor which uses a set of (default) profiles to control execution of programs.  If you are very paranoid you can learn how to mess with this.  I haven't found it necessary.

You can get into "safe mode" called superuser in Linux, but this is definitely not recommended.  To execute something that needs superuser permissions the sudo command handles this.  You will be asked for your login password if you invoke this, and you should set a good one.

If you do decide to go with Ubuntu or another distribution, I will help you.  Just ask.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Paeng on September 24, 2015, 11:30:43 AM
Nonny, thanks for my personal little update on things Linux...  :)

Well, you make it all sound so easy, but from personal experience (and disposition LOL) I know that it is not... there is my software base for one, my peripherals, drivers and and and... and then some. Beside the fact that (as often mentioned) I'm a slow poke - new software does not come easy to me...

I've been on Win systems for over 30 years - not necessarily by choice "but by my client's will", so to speak... In all those years I never (never!) had a single client who would run anything but Win...

* You know, like they bought MS Outrage for Mail, so they want to use it, too...  in turn I have to learn all about it, and teach their whole outfit, too...

So I and most of my work flows are pretty much imprinted... and now this old dog is supposed to learn  new tricks? I would not dare to compromise my setup by fiddling with a second OS, dual boot, Wine and stuff... anyway, my primary HD is only 75 Gb (by choice, to keep it tidy), the rest is a wild array with two or three Tb of secondaries and externals and... nah, that stays as it is...  :o


What I plan right now is to buy a not-too-pricey laptop with nothing but Linux, where I can fiddle around without fear, and slowly change over bit by bit and get familiar. Anything else would just eat up my nerves...  ;D
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 24, 2015, 01:21:34 PM
@Paeng : Well, whatever floats your boat.  You can actually create a boot partition on one of your other disks with the Linux loader if you have an unused partition.

I was pretty much Windows while I was a college teacher, but shortly after I retired the Vista fiasco put me into Linux and I've never looked back.  I suppose it was easier for me since I was teaching operating systems for many years and most of it wasn't Windows.  After you've slugged your way though one of the big mainframe proprietary operating systems (GCOS 8 ) it becomes pretty easy to swat up another one.  When I was working in a university for a couple of years, the campus O/S for the grad school was either UNIX or GCOS.  We persuaded GCOS to mostly look like UNIX using the POSIX standard for the time-sharing executive.  Only the cognoscenti knew about the JCL oriented batch system.  We hid it behind a programmable text editor.

Operating systems I have known: UNIVAC II, GECOS 200, GECOS 400, GECOS 600, Multics, Minix, UNIX, GCOS 3, GCOS 8, Windows from 3.1 forward to XP.  With these I have more than a passing acquaintance including some serious networking.  So, when it comes to a new O/S I am pretty much fearless.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 24, 2015, 03:42:11 PM
If you are to have another go at Linux, I would recommend Mint over Ubuntu. One of the reasons I like it so much, is that it's a smooth transition from Windows. It sort of looks the same, with the "start" menu in the bottom left, all programs there, the equivalent of the control panel, and so forth. But more importantly, Mint comes with many applications and drivers already installed, which isn't common for most distros (including Ubuntu I think). It makes things a lot easier for newbs like me (and possibly you).

You don't really need to dive into terminal and write code. You can use the menu to get to everything. When there are updates you click on an icon in the bottom right (similar to the area in Windows with the clock and so forth - though it's all messed up in Win10 I suppose), a window pops up with updates you can select and install. Hit the install button, and Linux downloads and installs them for you. It's pretty easy and straightforward.

Honestly, the biggest issue I had, at least this time around (had much bigger issues a few years ago, last time I tried Linux), was to sort out the partitions during install. It's not difficult, but can be confusing when one are not used to the new 'rules'. So much conflicting advice online too, regarding number of partitions and their sizes.

I ended up doing it pretty basic, not using a /tmp or /boot partition for instance. Did use a small (1GB) /swap partition, but it was probably unneeded. I have a 30GB root partition ("/"), and a 140+GB "/home" partition, for personal files and such. You can put the whole shebang on one partition, but splitting up root and home means more security for your files in case the system crashes for whichever reason and you need to re-install.

I practically never use the terminal. Did use it recently when trying to get Banished to work in wine, but normally PlayOnLinux works very well, for games that aren't made for Linux (natively).


If you choose to have another go, I would recommend to download a few LiveDVDs first, at least of Linux Mint and Ubuntu. Then you can test it out yourself, see how it is to manoeuvre around, how it works. There may still be a frustrating steep learning curve to begin with, but it has improved a great deal. Most things work "out of the box" now, though I agree Linux still has a way to go before it's easy to pick up for everybody, independent of skill level.

Then again, put somebody that has never used a computer before in front of a Windows PC, and they'd probably struggle too. We're just more used to its odd ways from years and years of practice. In that sense Microsoft's policy of not following standards and so on has worked.

Sorry if this too was geek-talk :blush:
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 25, 2015, 05:45:52 AM
Everyone to his taste.  Mint seems to satisfy some cravings for people who have developed a heavy windows habit.  When I ran it for three months or so, I found it to be rather tedious and not really ready for people but that was some years ago.  I gather from other correspondents who persisted with it that it is now better.

I have never had to load drivers for Ubuntu unless there was a proprietary driver from a device vendor.  The last time was from AMD who discontinued support for my chip set about a year after I purchased my machine.  Before that, there was a catalyst driver that needed a separate download.  I don't miss it.  The present default driver supplied by X-org does well in both directx, opengl and native mode.  I have no problems with either windows or standard GTK applications.

From the conversation, it seems that Ubuntu is a happy medium between Debian (too sparse) and Mint which didn't please me sometime ago.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Paeng on September 25, 2015, 06:14:00 AM
Sorry if this too was geek-talk

No, or at least it was understandable  ;)
Thanks for your input, too...

Well, how difficult/complicated is it to switch between various versions of Linux?
Can one easily go from Ubuntu to Mint to Debian to whatever?
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 25, 2015, 09:20:17 AM
It depends on how you want to do it.  You can set them all up on your disks (separate partitions is best) and use GRUB to switch from Windows to any of the others at will.  It does require a boot.

At the moment I have two different copies of Ubuntu loaded on my local hard disk, but I am probably going to drop my test partition because I have found I don't really need it.  This will double my local space from 250 GB to 500 GB.  I also have a 1 TB disk on-line set up in six partitions.  One of these days I am going to overhaul the whole works.

If you really want to dig into it, GRUB is fully documented and you can learn to customize it to your heart's content.
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Pangaea on September 25, 2015, 04:40:46 PM
As mentioned, it's easy to switch between different operating systems with GRUB. You need to install them to different partitions, but that's it. Also, if you want to run Windows as one of the operating systems, make sure to install Windows first, otherwise it will overwrite GRUB and really mess up your day. When you later install linux, it will recognise the Windows partition and put it in the startup menu in GRUB, allowing you to boot into Windows.

Live and learn, ho-hum...  :-X
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: Paeng on September 26, 2015, 04:35:39 AM
Yeah, I guess I have to come down from some of my expectations... they are probably too black and white...  :)

To me, for 30 years the whole alien-ess of windows shows here: "Click on Start to shut down your computer"... I don't know if they kept that as a running gag or if they were really not able to come up with sth better...  ???
Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on September 26, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
There is something about Linux that isn't documented unless you really dig for it.  This is how to get past a full system hang.  As long as the Linux kernel hasn't been stepped on (very unlikely) you can use this sequence of keystrokes to boot your machine safely.

(http://i.imgur.com/spuyQal.jpg)


Title: Re: Linux Corner
Post by: A Nonny Moose on May 28, 2016, 08:15:08 AM
Ubuntu 16.04 with wine-1.9.10 (Staging) on i5 4 core processor with an AMD (Radion) R7 240 2GB on board runs this program at full speed.  This is a step up from earlier when it ran at 10x as if it was 1x.

Other stuff under this combination of hardware/software runs fine as well.  All things come to him who waits.