World of Banished

Sightseeing => Village Blogs => Topic started by: Nilla on June 16, 2019, 03:48:32 PM

Title: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 16, 2019, 03:48:32 PM
I somehow miss writing these blogs. I donīt know if anyone else misses them, but anyhow Iīll write a little about the game I just finished and show you some pictures. I also have an idea about my next game, that I intend to write about more along the way.

Second attempt to fill a small mountain map went well. Not totally without bugs but this time a more amusing than an annoying/game disturbing bug. Well doesnīt mean totally without trouble. I was a bit damaged by diseases but otherwise, @kid1293īs rowhouse mod is almost as space saving as the 3 storehouses from @RedKetchup. My guess is that the RKEd town could have been slightly bigger than this one but not much.

How big did I manage to make this town? I have no clear answer. I like "sustainable settlements. That means first no homeless nomads filling the streets and also that it can survive not 10 000 years like our friend @irrelevantīs town but at least until the population starts to drop. So fully sustainable, the high was about 3860 until people started to die of tuberculosis. But if I count the nomads that arrived after the population had sunk to about 3700, the population would be well over 4000. It would have been no problems to support them but not possible to give them homes. So even if I wanted 4000, I find 3860 is a lot on a small mountain map.

Iīll show you some pictures. You will not see much free buildable space. Note that I have no leveling tool, so I have only built on the original building space. (Well, no use to play on a mountain map, if you intend to take the mountains away, anyway)

First picture
Highest population.........

Second picture
...... if not these are allowed (but they werenīt)

Third picture
This is pretty much how everything looks. Not much variation.

Fourth picture
Some menus and statistics. You can also see that Iīve used every possible space to build houses. I suppose not really meant to be built like this. Sorry Kid!  :-[

Fifth picture
No game of mine without bugs. This one was harmless. Every time as there was a fire, some people didnīt find the burning house. Instead, they walked across the mountains with their buckets of water, looking for something burning. When the other had turned out the fire, they simply went back. I might have lost a few who froze to death in winter but normally nothing bad happened. As I said: rather amusing than annoying.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on June 16, 2019, 03:54:39 PM
LOL

It looks ... crowded  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: brads3 on June 16, 2019, 05:23:45 PM
welcome back ,NILLA. KID made houses thart will sit into the mountains without having to level them.plus he made more 2 and 3 story options. you'd be better off with more mods you would have less glitches.LOL
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: 1 on June 17, 2019, 12:31:07 AM
Quote
Posted by: kid1293
Ŧ on: June 16, 2019, 03:54:39 PM ŧ

LOL

It looks ... crowded  ;D ;D

This lack of space is too much for bannies to handle. If they don't get diseases, they get mad losing touch with nature, just see building rows all the time.  :D
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 17, 2019, 12:44:16 AM
LOL
It looks ... crowded  ;D ;D
Yes; I guess the town ought to be renamed to Crowded. Sorry, Kid for misusing your nice mod in this way. But maybe you can find it amusing to look at it in this extreme way, too. If you want to look at your mods in a more pleasant way, thereīs always @Abandoned and other more balanced players than me.

This lack of space is too much for bannies to handle. If they don't get diseases, they get mad losing touch with nature, just see building rows all the time.  :D
Wrong; I didnīt have one teacher that needed to be banished after getting mad, no murdered vendor or other weirder things than people wanting to put out fires in not burning mountains. Maybe thatīs crazy enough but maybe they simply love to live next to all their fellow citizens.  :P

After I wrote my entry yesterday, I wasnīt really tired enough to go to bed and I didnīt want to start a new game, so I thought; OK Iīll give it another year or two. Maybe it will pass the 3860 inhabitants. And actually, it did. But only to about 3880 then first the settlement was struck by Typhus. Everyone sick (first picture). But more people were killed in the second picture! I know; itīs kind of stupid to play disasters on in such a game but I like the thrill. I also find that recover a settlement is funny.

This tornado struck my prime commercial area. The damage was limited. I have big stores, overproduction and too many TP, so it will not kill the settlement. So the new game will need to wait. The only not so funny thing is that so many people died; almost 1000, that there are much more homes than families, which means a lot of separated couples, that need to be located and forced back together. A bit tedious with more than 1000 houses. But itīs been a long time since I recovered a town that has suffered many deaths, so I will do it.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on June 17, 2019, 01:17:27 AM
No problems, they were meant to be built like this.


...but it looks funny.  ;D
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Artfactial on June 17, 2019, 03:28:17 AM
I actually quite like the use of Kid's row-houses like this!:)

Ohdear...that indeed are some disasters...Of course they always strike when we relaxingly 'just want to go for another few years' ending in major crisis management.:P
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 17, 2019, 12:00:46 PM
Ohdear...that indeed are some disasters...Of course they always strike when we relaxingly 'just want to go for another few years' ending in major crisis management.:P

Yes! Thatīs Banished! And honestly one of the reasons that I love this game and return to it over and over again. All mods the guys here present are of course another main reason.

I was at the dentist this afternoon. NOT NICE! Painful and expensive. So I wanted to relax with a bit of Banished crisis management in the early evening. It started alright but the diseases kill (Bannis and my patience) and I have decided to give up at least for now.

Remember the tornado happened in the early autumn year 53. Itīs now late summer 58; less than 5 years. The settlement has suffered following outbreaks.
And remember there was a massive outbreak of Typhus as the tornado struck the settlement.

Measles (~3 infected)
Thyphus >1000
Tuberculosis ~5
Small Pox 1
Scarlet Fever 1
Thyphus >1000
Mumps 1
Thyphus 4
Small Pox presently 95 (if I go on playing it will be >1000 and many 100 deaths)

If this had been a mod from our friend @Tom Sawyer (are you still around?) I would have said that the merchants who visit the small ports bring a disease 10 times as often as a vanilla merchant, just to balance the possible overpower of this small port. No mean thing I wouldnīt expect from him. ;) But @kid1293 is such a nice guy, so I canīt imagining him doing such an evil thing.

The strategy you are using in your huge town @OnkelAqua2 with many hospitals on places where people pass by and always a few that are infected from harmless diseases like mumps is good. As long as a few people suffer from mumps, there will be no Thyphus or Smallpox outbreaks. But the problem in this town is; there is hardly any outbreaks of mumps or diphtheria. There are mostly the mean ones. If I play a few more years I will probably experience the Plague for the first time.

Anyhow the settlement has now recovered to 3700 inhabitants. That will be enough for now!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 17, 2019, 02:32:22 PM
Around not much but getting notification if someone spreads rumor about my mod.^^ In truth I reduced the chance of diseases caused by merchants to balance the higher frequency of boats. I'm not that bad as my reputation. ;D

Welcome back, I'm glad you are recovering @Nilla!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 19, 2019, 01:32:58 AM
I know @Tom Sawyer that you are a very nice guy but sometimes you bring us really mean things (that Iīm usually very fond of).

Now to my next attempt to fill a map to its limits. This time I donīt expect much diseases, because I will play without any trade; no merchants, no nomads, a spread settlement with many fields and orchards.

I got a little inspired here on some threads from people who are playing (more or less) unmodded games. Itīs been a very long time since I played without mods. And to be honest, this game isnīt completely unmodded either. Just for fun and because it looks beautiful, Iīm using Kidīs tree replacer. Itīs a small map so I donīt think the size will hurt. I just saw that thereīs a new version but the old one is also nice. Everything else is pure "vanilla".

This time itīs not a mountain map, itīs a normal valley. I was pretty lucky by looking for a suitable map. If you donīt want all too much trouble, the best thing is to start "Easy" with sheep, one vegetable, one grain, and one orchard fruit. I expected to need to search a long time until such a map appeared. It started as such a search usually do; chicken, chicken, cows, then sheep. I expected pepper and cabbage as seeds but to my astonishment, it was wheat and potatoes. Then I supposed it will only have walnuts as orchard seed. And indeed it had walnuts but also pears. :) The starting position may not be perfect but itīs not bad. And the overall look of the map is decent, too. You can see the seed and settings cut into the first picture.

I have some ideas I want to test. Iīll tell you along the way.

First picture
Map and settings.
I started with the school but there was no chance to get the first child educated. I saw there were two 9-year-old children so I built the school as fast as possible next to the stockpile. But no chance. They hadn't even carried enough building materials to the school as she became 10.

Second picture
A lot has happened in 6 years. (Or in fact, itīs spring so itīs only a little more than 5 years.)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on June 19, 2019, 01:59:36 AM
Hi @Nilla !
If you like the vanilla 'look' you should test my Old Town mod. It is all about vanilla.
Maybe you just wanted an unmodded game...
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 19, 2019, 07:28:56 AM
Iīm pretty pleased by the vanilla for now but Iīll keep that in mind. The buildings look great and I suppose they all have "vanilla function". Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on June 19, 2019, 09:57:50 AM
I also have a strong preference for vanilla. All the options mods give you just make my head hurt.

At what point did you tear down the 6th house in the easy start circle? I hate the way those are laid out.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 20, 2019, 02:43:53 AM
I also have a strong preference for vanilla. All the options mods give you just make my head hurt.

At what point did you tear down the 6th house in the easy start circle? I hate the way those are laid out.

I canīt say, I prefer vanilla. I havenīt played a vanilla game for a very long time. Now, when I finally do it, I like it, too. But I wouldnīt like to miss all the mods. With them, thereīs a new game with a new look and new dynamics every time.

I donīt like the way the initial hoses are placed either. The first thing I do when I start to upgrade to stone houses is to tear them down. So itīs been a while since I tore that house down and you can see, that the others, at least 4 of them, are on their way to go as well. Or rather would have been torn down if I had continued to play from here. But I decided to start from the beginning.

Why? Thereīs no problems or nothing wrong with this start.

Right. But I had an idea for this game: I want to support as much of the settlement as possible with fuel using coal and firewood from cut down fruit trees. I think it saves space for farms and houses. So I got this maybe weird idea, to test if itīs possible to build a settlement without using any foresters. To make it even more interesting, I will also use no gatherers or hunters.

So I started again from the beginning. The start isnīt much different. Same map and settings, even the town name is the same.

First picture
You can see my strategy: many small orchards all with the hight of 4 tiles and an odd number of tiles length; mostly 4*13. I want them to have as many trees as possible. There is a bit of micromanagement. Weīll see how it works later when the game grows but so far it isnīt much trouble: after the harvest, I chose orchards to cut. How many depends on what I need more logs of food. In spring the farmers have cut and replanted the trees, so I close the orchards. Here Iīm short on laborers so they will do laborers work until late summer/early autumn when itīs time to pick fruit again. Later when I have a larger workforce, I will send the farmers who are done with planting directly to the new orchards in spring. This way I will only need to pay attention to the orchards twice each year. I think that will be manageable on a small map, even when itīs full.

Second picture
So far it works fine. There are too many orchards at the moment: plenty of logs, plenty of fruit. Iīve used orchards as a source for logs since I first played Banished but Iīve never done it this extreme so I need to experiment a bit how many orchards there need to be. Iīve also started to produce coal.

Third picture
Iīve expanded the settlement towards the river. We need fish. I plan to build only a few markets, maybe one more to secure raw materials to blacksmiths and chopper. The people will have to pick up their food in barns. Thatīs the reason Iīve built the fields here close to the fisher. At the moment it works fine; all food categories in the barn. They will still need to walk far for fuel, tools (and clothes) But later I will build a coal mine in the area. and as you can see; odd pieces of clothing and tools will land in the remote barns as well.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 08:00:36 AM
next map burn just thatch or fodder and no firewood.  how long before the population grows you into a corner? as you need more food you also will need to cut all those orchards for wood. are you on Easter Island?

       while you were away, there has been some experiments to adjust the tree growths. they live longer and don't all die off.but RED has them growing faster and multplying more. the latest RK EC version,you won't need a forester per say. you need gardeners to keep the trees from over growing the villages. we gained a point but added different challenges to the game.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 21, 2019, 04:36:30 AM
This game has no mods, remember @brads3. Besides; I was never a fan of using grass or reed as fuel. Why should you use a material with such a poor energy content as fuel when you have trees? If you have no, itīs another matter, you must use what you can. Fir or pear? Does it matter? Not much.

So far it works. Not much to tell. A nice and simple vanilla game. The micromanagement of the orchards works fine, not much trouble to cut trees after the harvest and relocate farmers in spring. I have built a little bit more orchards than I really need but not all too much. I think this would work also when I fill the map.

First picture
Normally I use to buy stones and iron so I donīt have all these accidents. But there are a lot of them. Maybe Salvaro would still be alive if he had stayed stonecutter. Instead, he found a miserable death his first day in the mine.  :'(

Here Iīve just built my second market.

Second picture
That second market led to that the barns in this farming/fishing area in spring mostly contained fish and the health have dropped a ― star. Iīm about to increase the production of wheat and potatoes. You need a larger overproduction when you only build a few markets. Weīll see if I can regain the last ― hart or if I must be satisfied with 4―. It would be OK but Iīll try to get 5again.

Am I not an expert in locating schools? 13 students in each school. Couldnīt be more perfect. ;)

GLAD MIDSOMMAR ALLIHOP!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on June 21, 2019, 04:48:12 AM
Glad midsommar, Nilla!

Vädret är som vanligt, ostadigt.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: 1 on June 21, 2019, 05:07:37 AM
Quote
Posted by: Nilla
Ŧ on: Today at 04:36:30 AM ŧ

GLAD MIDSOMMAR ALLIHOP!

Quote
Posted by: kid1293
Ŧ on: Today at 04:48:12 AM ŧ

Glad midsommar, Nilla!


Same from Finland!
@Nilla
@kid1293
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 21, 2019, 08:40:18 AM
Happy Midsummer from me too, from the North (of Berlin^^)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 23, 2019, 02:49:22 AM
Midsummer celebration over. Not that we really celebrated, my health doesnīt allow all too much, but usually, itīs an important holiday here in Scandinavia. Why itīs worth to celebrate that we now are going towards darker times, I donīt know but weīve done it for thousands of years. One holiday that the Christians didnīt hi-jack 1000 years ago. So I guess it will remain until thereīs no Scandinavian left on earth. ;)

My no-forest experiment works well. So far no crisis what so ever. Your concerns @brads3 are unfounded. I will show you some pictures and tell a little about this town specially and Banished in general.

First picture
Look carefully, if you see something odd on this picture.

Itīs early spring but the snow lies deep on the fields. It was a long cold spring that year. Thatīs not so odd, happens now and then in Banished. But look at the fields. No single farmer is assigned to work. Thatīs a "trick". I have "unassigned" every farmer when I saw how cold it was. If I hadnīt they would have started to plant in the snow and the seeds would have been destroyed on the south end of the field. I have seen fields with only a few rows of the crop on the north side was left to grow. When the temperature reaches the freezing point I will reassign all of them. But not all at the same time by writing 133. If I do the farmer will live randomly far away all over the map and the fields will be planted very late. I must click 133 times on the "increasing the number arrow". I find itīs a job worth doing if it prevents half of your crops to freeze.

The picture shows my last expansion of the town, the last piece of nature will soon have to go.  :'( You can also see the inventory. It doesnīt contain many different kinds of goods (especially compared to a modded game) but thereīs no lack of anything.

Second and third picture
On @MarkAnthonyīs thread, we discussed education and what professions uneducated should have/not have and if itīs possible to assign them to certain professions. Here I made a mistake; was a bit careless about the number of schools and built one too late. 3 or maybe 4 or 5 youngsters didnīt attend school. In this medium size settlement, itīs very tedious to find them. I donīt want to look through every house, so I left the matter and hoped for the best.

But now I have identified 2 of the uneducated. The first one, Bessiah happened to move into the house next to the school you can see on the bottom of the picture. You can see heīs uneducated, no child graduate at 13. Suitable enough he became the teacher! :)  :P :D

The second picture also shows the food graph. This is the way it should look in a safe game. Amount of food stored increasing with the population.

After a while, I noticed a fast reduction in my tool supply. It is time to build a 4th blacksmith soon; there are 450 adults, many of them miners and stonecutters (who need a new tool much more often than most of the other professions) but this fast drop could only be explained in one way: a blacksmith who doesnīt know his craft. I looked and of course, I found the second uneducated; Turnett. He and his family now live in a place with only fisher and farmer. I hope they are happy.

I havenīt found the 3. uneducated yet, but I soon expect a fast drop in clothes production. ;)
 
Fourth picture
I stopped the game yesterday evening at a turning point where I need to change my plan in some way.

What was my plan?

I wanted to fill the map with stone houses as fast as I could. For a long time it worked fine, I was never very far behind but now you can see I can no longer keep up the stone production enough to build enough houses. You can see that the stonecutter spend more time walking to the bottom of the quarry than cutting stones. This has 40 % left and it will get worse.

There are some options; I donīt really like any of them so I needed to think about what I should do. I have now made my decision. Iīll let you know in my next post.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 24, 2019, 02:43:08 AM
Now I would like to tell you the possibilities I saw to reach my goal, despite the low stone production.

1. Go back to an earlier save and start to produce a large surplus of stone to use now at the end of the game. - probably the best but also the most boring way, so NO!
2. Build another quarry and double the stonecutter. NO! The stone from this third quarry will be enough. I need land for houses and to produce food.
3. Let it take the time it takes to finish the map. Build a new house when I have stones. Possible, but the speed of the population growth will slow down and I will reach a lower maximum population with the same number of houses, than if I grow faster.
4. Build wood houses instead of stone houses. Itīs a risk.  We will need more precious fuel/will need to cut more orchards, but it will be possible to catch up with the planned housebuilding speed.

I choose 4.

I also took another risk. I demolished some fields and built quite a few extra wooden houses. I usually play too safe. I already left the safe path by building wooden houses, so why not. I didnīt know if it would work and I still donīt know. I stopped the game as the population started to decrease. Unfortunately, this game is no "self-runner" and now itīs boring. The settlement lives but without a big surplus of anything. It may or may not survive a really bad year. We will never know because we will now leave towards the north. See you soon in other surroundings.

But before we leave itīs time enough to show some pictures.

I just see, I made no save as I stopped the game, the last is from year 50 and I stopped somewhere 58-60, so I canīt show you much from the end but I made some screenshots along the way.

First picture
One reason I canīt say for sure if the settlement can survive is 3 bad years in a row; 49-51. You can see the small peaks on the food graph. First, there was a very early frost, then a very hot summer and this year vi had a cold spring. I donīt build anything, so I just run the game on 5 or 10x speed and didnīt pay attention enough to used the "hold back farmer" trick. If these would have been normal years, I think the game would have been safe. But on the other hand; it brought some life and excitement to the boring end.

You can also see, where I have demolished some fields; small groups of wooden houses.

Second picture
Typical production numbers. Itīs been similar the last 10 years; barely enough of everything.

Third picture

My last screenshot. Itīs at the population peek. I think I saw 1151 but that was the most. I played it another couple of years and the population started slowly to get down. 
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on June 24, 2019, 06:44:56 AM
... You can see heīs uneducated, no child graduate at 13. Suitable enough he became the teacher! :) :P :D
That matches up quite perfectly with the saying, "Those who can't do, teach."
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Artfactial on June 24, 2019, 07:36:57 AM
I envy that production graph.:)

That old mine would make for a great public park or pool when the river would be diverted into it!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 25, 2019, 02:59:22 AM
I envy that production graph.:)

That old mine would make for a great public park or pool when the river would be diverted into it!
Do you envy the first 48 (safety) or the last two years (excitement)? ;)

These ruins (together with the low production and many accidents) are the reason I avoid mines and quarries if I can and normally buy stone and iron. @Tom Sawyer made it possible to float an empty clay pit to become a fishing pond. I wish it could be made by this big hole as well.

Talking about Tom, I decided to go back North and again and play a Nordic game with the changed happiness. I started the day before yesterday with Anders and Ella and Norsemen on a nice small forest map. Again I want to fill the map with as many people as it allows. I think there will be only a little trade. Iīm not sure yet if I will stay in "old times" or develop to the "red houses period". Weīll see along the way. What I know, however; I want to get everyone as happy as possible.

First picture
After a few years, my "Anders"; the first settler got Mumps! Itīs very early in the game and I have no doctor. Normally itīs no big deal. It will probably spread to more or less everyone. But Mumps is hardly lethal. The production gets down for a while, after that; business as usual. But wait; this is Norsemen. I suddenly remembered that if someone gets ill and thereīs no doctor, he will never reach 5 stars; not in his entire life. (At least thatīs what Iīve seen in other games). And itīs a real-time aging game. The entire initial population; never fully happy? No, I donīt want that.

Thereīs one more problem. The North has no hospital for early years. In theory, you can build a vanilla hospital but that doesnīt fit the rest of the buildings. And the new Nordic clinic (a very nice building) need brick and glass that you donīt have at the beginning and this large, red house would fit as bad s the vanilla hospital in these surroundings. So I decided to load the Forest Outpost from @kid1293, that has a nice little sauna that works as a small hospital. For this game, itīs a pity that it has no effect on happiness but I also know that it has its advantages, so Kid, itīs no request. 

Second picture
Yesterday I started a new game on a new map. I havenīt got very far but it looks promising. I will grow by immigration.

Here @MarkAnthony, I have used the separation trick to get more children than the 5 person house allows, that @brads3 talked about in your thread. I have temporarily split the initial couple. The mother and one child in one house the father with two children in another. This way itīs room for more children even if the house only allows 3.

Oh, I just see a child named Messie was born; I guess they will soon need a football field! ;) By the way; weīre still in the World Champion; beating Canada yesterday. But the next game is against Germany. Unfortunately, our girls always lose, to the joy of my German husband.  :-\
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Artfactial on June 25, 2019, 05:35:31 AM
Quote
Do you envy the first 48 (safety) or the last two years (excitement)? ;)
Both really.:P I have had an erratic food income for some time and have been paying for it in the last few years of my town. Excitement is good...sometimes.:P

I have yet to try The North, it looks great and is right up my game-play alley. I have so much American colonization ideas still floating around!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: brads3 on June 25, 2019, 06:46:41 AM
The NORTH climate is harsher than America's even on mild.it is challenging. the fields want 70 degrees to produce food.i am using TOM's Nordic climate mod and getting 70 degrees 1 out of 5 yrs. NILLA cheats thou. her farmers don't need to be educated and she has hardier crops.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Artfactial on June 25, 2019, 09:55:18 AM
Yeah, it looks like a real good challenge.:)
Uneducated farmers  seems like a good way to go (or is that a feature of the mod?)

I normally don't like to start with seeds, relying more in trade, but I can imagine that that would be an incredibly important starting condition if you don't plan on trading.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 25, 2019, 12:05:13 PM
Me, cheating??? Brad, Brad how can you imagine that? Iīm asking for harder options, not easier. ;) You only have these troubles because you try to grow pineapples and cucumbers from other mods in a cold climate. If you stick to traditional domestic crops like turnips, cabbage and barley you will hardly have any problems, at least not on "mild". On "harsh" it doesn't make much sense to farm but thatīs another matter. Here I want to, so I choose "mild".

And if you donīt mix other mods in, you will notice that itīs not me; itīs Tom who decided that the undereducation penalty is gone or is very small by simple professions. By others, it may be very large. Even by farmers, the uneducation penalty is different depending on the crop. Not easy but interesting and logical.

In a Nordic game "Anders and Ella" they have turnips from the start. There are other options; some have seeds and animals, some only the one or other some of them have nothing; and I mean really nothing; not even a tool or a little food for the start.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: brads3 on June 25, 2019, 12:27:05 PM
i am not growing pineapples. this ain't Hawaii.less i use a greenhouse.didn't even do that this time.i have RED's crops so they are affected more by the climate than TOM's. mine need 70 degrees as long as possable.  planting is delayed  til mid summer also. i wish i had your un-educated changes. that is a huge advantage i had to fight for every educated farmer i could get early on.   by the way, my pine mod maple treees suffer in this climate and that mod was made by a Canadian.

   i do like the Nordic climate overall. it does match up with the Mid-Atlantic region guite well.as close as we can get with Banished.i just wish i could hold 70 longer or at least have it every year. some years i am lucky to see 65.

    if i could chose,i'd like to have the education you have and TOM's alcohol as food tweak.those 2 help so much with how the bannies act. 
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 26, 2019, 02:17:08 AM
If you mean the quarry with big hole then you can flood it as well @Nilla.

And the climate setting in this "Nordic Landscape" mod from 2016 or so can't be compared with the current version. It was something like a predecessor of the north mod before I started to make models and everything was adjusted since that. If I remember right, it was colder but can't check. I don't even have source files of this old mod anymore.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 26, 2019, 03:38:45 AM
Now you must explain @Tom Sawyer; how can I flood the vanilla quarry?

Yesterday I played nice, peaceful and...........SLOW. Even if I take every nomad and one couple arrives more or less every spring, not much is happening. Of course, some micromanagement is needed but not all too much. Most of the people are happy so the idling hours have been reduced and the production has increased. At the moment Iīm inclined to agree with @brads3; real-time aging is easier at least now at the beginning.

I had a lot of time to make some screenshots Iīll show them and tell a little why I made them,

First picture
As I planned, the initial settler family has got its 4. child.

Second picture
I donīt know what this is; most springs one couple arrive to join the settlement but it looks like this village has become a getaway for middleaged women who have run away with their teenage lovers!  ::) :o

You can see that most people are happy. Only a few living out in the woods and temporarily in the initial goahti are unhappy.

Third picture
Here we can see the reasons for the happiness; our little village center with church, inn, traveling vendor and sauna.

Fourth picture
Believe it or not; I used some decorations. Donīt know what has happened. ;) I must be bored by the slow pace. The pear trees arenīt pure decorations. They can be harvested but one by one so they need a lot of micromanagement. Sometimes they will pick the pears sometimes not.

Fifth picture
These teenagers! Always do the opposite of what they are told! Lancesco; the first child who was born in the settlement simply moved out from home and occupied the hut, thatīs there for new arrivals. The gouhti is next to a storage full of all kind of food but what does he eat? Only venison. And now he suffers from all kind of health issues and he doesnīt believe his mother, saying that he should eat a proper meal instead of his beloved meat.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 26, 2019, 04:44:00 AM
There is a small button in quarry window, just as for the big claypit. Works exactly the same way.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 27, 2019, 12:04:47 AM
Yes on your version on the vanilla quarry but the comment was to a (more or less) vanilla game, and Iīve never seen that button on the quarry.

I have decided I will stay in the "old times" and try to fill the map with as many people it can support. My ambitions are 5 stars, 5 hearts. Along the way, I find little things generally about the North, that might be interesting to discuss, considering a future upgrade. What do mean @Tom Sawyer; should I throw these suggestions, questions out here in my blog or on the North thread, that more people might follow and want to participate in the discussion?

Maybe I can do some combination.

Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 27, 2019, 02:34:22 AM
It has a nice tradition to talk about new ideas and balancing inside your blogs but can be more clear and easier to follow in main discussion thread. :)

For vanilla based games I can make a separate recultivation mod if people would like it.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 27, 2019, 12:10:35 PM
For vanilla based games I can make a separate recultivation mod if people would like it.
Iīm sure it would be appreciated.

It has a nice tradition to talk about new ideas and balancing inside your blogs but can be more clear and easier to follow in main discussion thread. :)

That was a clear and precise answer. ;) I think I will follow the tradition and start to write about my thoughts here and if there are matters I (or someone else) finds ought to be more commonly discussed, Iīll double it and make a short version on the North main thread.

As usual, I will show some pictures and tell a little to them.

First picture
Also the most stubborn teenager will grow up and be sensible. Maybe itīs not that sensible to marry one's sister but all the rest looks pretty sane to me; reliable profession, good and balanced food, devoted father of a baby boy.

You can see the content in my stores. As always in my Nordic games; thereīs a lot of proteins. They are easy to get and easy to process. I will not say itīs a bad thing. If you play on harsh or "Ironman" you are grateful; itīs even one of the things that makes it possible to survive an Ironman game on harsh. It also makes that not so experienced players can play the North. Thatīs good too. But especially in such a game on "mild", self-supporting with very little trade, it fills the barns. Thatīs a challenge where I fail miserably; not store too much food, especially not proteins.  :-\

Second picture
I want to talk about the turf houses. I do love the look. If it hadnīt been for two things, I would have built a lot of them.
1. happiness detraction
2. family size

This area is inside all happiness buildings. As I expected, some inhabitants are happy some not; itīs similar to before you have an inn or if they live inside an industrial area. If you want everyone happy; you canīt use these houses! Thatīs as simple as that! Is this a good or a bad thing? As the game is now, in a Norseman game; I find it a bad thing. They need the same space and the building costs are not much higher for a log cabin without detraction. I think youīve mentioned that you want to change the building cost for the log cabins and include glass. That would make the turf houses more interesting. If you canīt afford glass; you will have to live with lower happiness. That could make sense. (Maybe also make glass a bit more expensive, I find it pretty cheap to buy)

But what about the family size?

The first general question; what is better a house for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8...... inhabitants. I would answer it depends on the game youīre playing. In this game, the population growth is too slow and the houses couldnīt be big enough now at the beginning. In other games, I was happy that I had the goathi for 3 persons to control that the growth didnīt get out of hand. Now the question; What was your intentions by setting the family size to 4 @Tom Sawyer? The only argument that makes sense to me is that (for some reason I donīt understand) many people like houses for 4 inhabitants and such a house was missing in the North. Personally, I donīt need a house for 4 person families. If I want to reduce the growth I can use a combination of 3 and 5 person houses. To me, it would be more useful if it could hold a family of 6. Maybe Iīll even sacrifice the happiness for faster growth. That would be interesting. But maybe thatīs not so logical, because of the size of the house.

I have more pictures but this is long enough for now.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 28, 2019, 02:35:28 PM
More pictures.

First picture
Here you can see my strategy for this settlement. I want to build a bit like a medieval village; all houses close together surrounded by fields, pastures and forests. I really donīt mean all the houses.  I want to settle the 100 people who can be a member in one church congregation in the happiness circle from the small chapel. In my normal way of building more mixed houses and workplaces, I always had the feeling that the happiness circle was too small; no room for 100 people inside it. But if I do it this way; it can very well hold houses enough for 100 inhabitants many small stores and some workplaces. The fields arenīt too far away either. The next 100 inhabitants will live around next church and so on until this small map is full. I kind of like this structure.

Second picture
Iīm taking every nomad. But now also young people are getting adults. A tricky part in Norse/Ironman is that children get adults with 12 but are not pairing up until they are 15. This means that there are always some 12 years old living alone in a big house. I have found a strategy to deal with this that seems to work. I have built some gouathi ut in the woods for these single youngsters. I have another strategy to deal with the slow real time speed. Normally I play 5X but when a merchant arrives I slow down to 2x. I may make some business, then I look around that everything is alright in town. I also look who lives in the distant goathis. If itīs a couple, I build a house for them (they are already prepared ). When the house is almost done I fake demolish the goathi, the young couple move into the nice house and a new 12-15-year-old moves into the hut. Maybe I build something but normally there isnīt much to do, so I set the speed to 5X again and wait for the next merchant. Works perfect for me.

Iīm not especially proud of this food graph, even if it looks like a school book example of how it should look. I have much too much food in my stores. The reason is these guys..........

Third picture
I know, I have complained about this before. I only have so many pastures and hunters I need to produce enough textile to produce enough clothes. I even buy some wool, leather and hide when a merchant brings some. The fact is; if you want to produce enough clothing for your people in a Nordic game you will get too much meat from the first day on. I find you need too much textiles to make clothing.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 29, 2019, 03:38:51 AM
That's a very nice layout, compact around the chapel with fields and pastures outside. Cool how the game mechanics lead to a realistic looking structure.

About your points we talked already. The turf house is meant as starting home and move the log cabins to midgame defined by glass. Making this more expensive is a good thought. That would support the feeling to have achieved this tier. The turf house can also be set to 5 people since it has the same ground arae as log cabins but the happiness effect I want to keep. It's then more motivation to improve buildings than just a better use of firewood.

I remember in another game you did prefer 4 person houses for better control of your population. That probably just depends on game situation and also on citizen settings. Best will be to have a good range of different house types to choose. One new model I still want to make for a bigger family with 4 kids is a Viking longhouse or bigger farmhouse for later.

This discrepancy between protein and materials for clothing will be better or solved with the reduced output of meat and introducing flax production for an efficient "not-meat-side-producing" way to get textiles.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on June 30, 2019, 07:25:20 AM
1995! No, thatīs not the population of my new settlement (not enough space to achieve that) That's the last time Swedens football women beat Germany in a championship. Until yesterday! So, Germany is out and weīre still in. I think I wrote that one year ago as well. Then it was the men. At the moment itīs nice to be Swedish in a German-Swedish family interested in football. ;)

Quote
I remember in another game you did prefer 4 person houses for better control of your population. That probably just depends on game situation and also on citizen settings. Best will be to have a good range of different house types to choose. One new model I still want to make for a bigger family with 4 kids is a Viking longhouse or bigger farmhouse for later.

I`m pretty sure that was in an Ironman game before you had made the goathi. (or maybe before I realized how I could use it) A combination of the 3 person and 5 person houses works much better to control the population growth than 4 person houses. Iīm looking forward on a Viking longhouse. Maybe you could consider making it possible to have even more than 4 children. I find it would be more challenging, because the population growth may get out of control if youīre not careful.

Quote
This discrepancy between protein and materials for clothing will be better or solved with the reduced output of meat and introducing flax production for an efficient "not-meat-side-producing" way to get textiles.

Iīm not sure the output of proteins needs to be reduced from the pastures, at least not much. If you look at the output of food related to space and compare it to fields, itīs not so much. We have talked about this before and I would like to see more milk and less meat from the cows and maybe more wool and less meat from the sheep. A flax chain would, of course, improve the balance meat/textiles. That sounds good.

Talking about textiles. You made this lovely storehouse for non-food products @Tom Sawyer; textiles among others. Iīm sorry to say; it doesnīt work very well. The many small barns around my store are full of all kind of things and the big store is almost empty. Itīs a pity because the model is so nice. It would need a better purpose. I see two alternatives. Both would probably be more useful than how it works now, but Iīm not fully happy with any of them. So I hope youīll come to some better idea.

1. Make it possible to use a vendor. It would work like the warehouse. The vendor will fill the store alright but also with all kind of things, that you might need somewhere else. Say; you build the store close to a tailor to provide textiles and store clothes but the vendors will also carry lamp oil away from the store next to where itīs produced, close to a mine where itīs needed.

2. Transform it into a large barn for all kind of "stuff". Before this game, I would have said that we do need a larger storage building for food in the "old times". But now Iīm pretty fond of the look of all these small stores. I try to put them everywhere in all directions. That looks genuine and pretty cool to me. If you want the larger stores, itīs another motivation to move into "modern times" and this would at least partly be gone, with such a larger store.

First picture
The food store gets bigger and I will need at least one more of each sheep and cow pasture to produce enough textiles soon.  ??? :P ???

Second picture

When we reached 200 inhabitants I decided to take no more nomads. Before that, I took every arriving nomad. I wanted to "feel" the change in the "dynamics". The settlement still grows but by far not so fast anymore. Maybe I should have waited a little bit longer.

You are absolutely right, @Abandoned if you want o story-based game, you need a real-time ageing mod. Otherwise the people you "know" are fast gone. Itīs nice to follow the initial settler, the first nomads and their children. Mara was the first middle-aged woman who arrived with her young husband and mother of the "football child" Messie who married the second daughter of the initial settlers. (See, I know them) They both still live and are still together. The two initial settlers, however, are both dead. But you canīt possibly mean, that you find it harder to play real-time ageing, at least not as long as the settlement is this small. I know it will change when it gets bigger but it will still take some time.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: moonbelf on June 30, 2019, 08:23:38 AM
Nicely done Nilla. Looks good and I'm following your blog to see how it all turns out :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 01, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Thanks, @moonbelf but itīs not "my fault". Like many other mods; itīs not so hard to make it look good if youīre playing a North game.

@Tom Sawyer, I wanted to ask a bit about the roasted meat. If I understand it right; itīs produced by the innkeeper at the inn using ale and meat and can be "eaten" at the inn with the same effect as alcohol. If I have more meat than grain (like I have in this game) itīs good to use it that way.  But sometimes I see a little of it at a wagon vendor and a small amount also in peopleīs homes. How does it get there? Is there a way to make more or less of it available for "normal eating"? At the moment it doesnīt matter. Thereīs always enough at the inns but it would be good to know, how itīs meant to be.

Maybe weīve talked about this before; I also have some "issues" with the output from rye and wheat. I like very much that the output is different for different crops. But why is wheat better than rye? As far as I know, rye was the common bread crop for ordinary people and "everyday" food. Wheat was luxury, for the rich and for special occasions and holidays. As I looked at the different outputs of the crops I saw a couple of minor errors in your Wiki: The price of apples and pears Iīm sure are wrong, also some of the production numbers of food processing looked different than those I remember. I havenīt checked, so they might be correct and my memory weak.  :-\

First picture
By not clearing the ground before building, I find this second village looks even more pleasant with the natural trees still in the village.

Second picture
I think youīve hit the effect of fire really good. This time it looks really realistic as if the wind brought sparks to the next house in the wind direction. Itīs named "disasters" and 1-2 houses burned down is no disaster. This fire hurts but doesnīt destroy the game. Well done!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on July 01, 2019, 09:58:53 AM
@Nilla, I love the look of this town, with the green roofs!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 02, 2019, 03:40:30 AM
I have seen that too in Ale House and Tavern. Sometimes people take a bit roasted meat at home or in your case it's probably the wagon vendor who is taking it from the ale house. It's their "meat to go" service or so.

Wheat got a higher standard output because it's so in real but due to temperature dependencies you should get a better yield with rye in cold climate. In Nordic mild it might be still good with wheat but in "fair" it turns. You can compare the grains in your game directly. Would be interesting.

Apple and pears I checked and they are correct in wiki. If you see or suspect mistakes there, I'm always glad to hear. :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 02, 2019, 04:46:51 AM
@Nilla, I love the look of this town, with the green roofs!
Thank you. I love the look of these buildings and the overall look, too. I think the North would be a mod to your liking. Maybe give a small headache but a pleasant one. ;) But forget all you know about vanilla Banished, itīs in many ways a totally different game.
I have seen that too in Ale House and Tavern. Sometimes people take a bit roasted meat at home or in your case it's probably the wagon vendor who is taking it from the ale house. It's their "meat to go" service or so.

Wheat got a higher standard output because it's so in real but due to temperature dependencies you should get a better yield with rye in cold climate. In Nordic mild it might be still good with wheat but in "fair" it turns. You can compare the grains in your game directly. Would be interesting.

Apple and pears I checked and they are correct in wiki. If you see or suspect mistakes there, I'm always glad to hear. :)
I guess the vendors sometimes see some additional business in "drive-in fast food" ;) Itīs no problem, I just wanted to know.

I have compared rye and wheat. Wheat is indeed the crop thatīs harvested last. But here on mild I seldom lose anything but unless the field is very small, I use more farmers on each field. Anyway, the output is higher for wheat than rye.

No, I persist; the trade values for pears and apples are wrong in your wiki (or maybe right there and wrong at the ports). You get 5 from the "good merchants" and 3 from the stingy ones. Not 3/2 as the wiki says.

For this game, Iīve changed my initial plan. I want a self-sufficient settlement thatīs not based on trade. Thatīs why I only wanted one small trading port, to first buy seeds and animals, a little glass for the inns, later some salt and sugar, additional tools and iron but also (not really planned) wool and lamp oil. The only pure "export goods" I produce are some furs and herbs I let unemployed labourers pick in the summer. But I also sell some smoked meat, just to get rid of it.

Now I have decided to build this one large port as well, mostly to get rid of the meat. Itīs getting worse. I produce too little of all other food categories but I donīt want to increase the total amount of food. So I have decided to fill the port with meat and increase the number of fields and orchards. We will see how it will work.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on July 02, 2019, 06:26:39 AM
@Nilla, I love the look of this town, with the green roofs!
Thank you. I love the look of these buildings and the overall look, too. I think the North would be a mod to your liking. Maybe give a small headache but a pleasant one. ;) But forget all you know about vanilla Banished, itīs in many ways a totally different game.

I played the North when it first came out. I enjoyed the town I made using it, but it didn't make me want to try another.

Based on your posting in Village Images (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=2858.0 which I had not read until this past Sunday) I downloaded RKEC1.03 and started a town with that as my only mod. I have to say that I love it! The changes that @RedKetchup has made to the basic game (refining ore at the smith, making cloth and flax at the tailor, making firewood from thatch at the chopper, lumber, etc) add so much depth that was missing. I'm only in year 7 or so, but I'm having the most fun I have had with any set of mods.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 03, 2019, 02:52:30 AM
Much have changed; evolved in the North mod since the first days. But @irrelevant, youīve made a good choice; RKEd is a great mod.

First picture
The big port really paid off! Look at the inventory! Balanced food! :) Iīve sold almost 20 000 meat, so I have a small stock of coins. Iīve also bartered traded for some cabbage. Iīm pleased.

I also made another change in my initial plans; Iīve given up the thought of warm coats. Normally in a Nordic game, warm coats pay off but I guess not on "mild". I wish I had thought of it from the beginning, it would have made life easier.

Second picture
Iīve made another small deviation from my initial plans; no "modern" buildings. You can see the watermill in the background. Sure, water mills have been used for thousands of years but not red. I wanted to compare the output between the water mill and the small windmill. I havenīt run them both for very long but they look pretty much the same.

One question @Tom Sawyer; how much grain can the small granary hold? It has no "% bar" like other stores. I find it would be a good idea to add one if possible. It also stores flour (just made in the close mill) and bread, so it would be good to see fast if thereīs still room for more grain to grind or if we maybe need another one.

500 inhabitants passed but the map is slowly getting full. Weīll see how long this game can last and how many people we can support on this limited space.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 03, 2019, 11:33:53 AM
The granary has a total capacity of 4k in theory. But they actively fill it up to 2k rye and 2k wheat. It could be confusing with a %-bar but we can try.

With the mistake in wiki you were right. I was only looking in wiki pages and not in overview table.

Good luck for your girls now! :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 03, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
No, our girls werenīt lucky.  :( :'( The Dutch girls were, and in the end, more skilled. A football game isnīt 60 minutes, itīs normally 90 and sometimes even 120. Our girls simply didnīt have the power to play that kind of football for so long.

Now I must cool down with a bit of calm Banished.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on July 03, 2019, 04:11:18 PM
I played the North when it first came out. I enjoyed the town I made using it, but it didn't make me want to try another.

I downloaded RKEC1.03 and started a town with that as my only mod. I have to say that I love it!  The changes that @RedKetchup (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) has made to the basic game (refining ore at the smith, making cloth and flax at the tailor, making firewood from thatch at the chopper, lumber, etc) add so much depth that was missing. I'm only in year 7 or so, but I'm having the most fun I have had with any set of mods.
Hi @irrelevant ,

I am curious as to why you didn't want to try North again after your first town there? I giggled when I read that and was just curious as to how come.

You said you installed and played RKEC 1.03.  His current version is 1.31 why did you start with an older version? 

I have a comment about that last part you said. I just got here to WOB and Banished on June 14th of this year but you all have seemed to have been here for years. The way I read that last part of your reply is that in all this time, this is the first time you have ever tried RKEC? Again...in all this time with you and RedKetchup being friends here... this is your first time using his mod? I find that odd and funny if I am interpreting that correctly!

Cheers!


Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on July 04, 2019, 03:43:34 AM

Hi @irrelevant ,

I am curious as to why you didn't want to try North again after your first town there? I giggled when I read that and was just curious as to how come.

You said you installed and played RKEC 1.03.  His current version is 1.31 why did you start with an older version? 

I have a comment about that last part you said. I just got here to WOB and Banished on June 14th of this year but you all have seemed to have been here for years. The way I read that last part of your reply is that in all this time, this is the first time you have ever tried RKEC? Again...in all this time with you and RedKetchup being friends here... this is your first time using his mod? I find that odd and funny if I am interpreting that correctly!

Cheers!
I don't really remember, that was some time ago, August 2016. Maybe I'll try it again sometime, or at least open that town back up and take a look around. Or maybe I won't.  ;) I like what I'm working on now.
 
I was relying on my no-so-good memory, my RKEC is indeed version 1.31.

I haven't really used mods much the past couple of years, and for the past year you may recall I was mainly just letting Gopher Prairie run unattended continuously. Also, RKEC is not exactly the only mod RK has ever made. I've already used most of his other great stuff in one town or another.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 04, 2019, 11:43:25 AM
Yesterday nothing really went well in this game. Iīll tell you to the pictures what happened.

First picture
This is a minor nuisance; but why must a chapel burn in each Nordic game? I have written about it before; a very old (12th century), beautiful wooden chapel, very much looking like the Nordic chapel, burned in my village some 15 years ago. Is this an evil spell to remind me of that terrible occasion?

The inventory looks perfect at this time.

Second picture
This nuisance is more severe. There are more people ill than I have places in the small hospitals. And people who get ill without a doctor, never (or at least very hard) regain any stars. I donīt think there was so many more ill at the same time than on this picture, so the harm wasnīt all too big. You canīt see any influence on the overall picture yet on this picture but later itīs noticeable but not so much that you lose a star.

Third picture
Here you can see something that isnīt a nuisance, instead rather nice: the flooded quarry. The map is full, I will not build any more houses or anything else big that will use a lot of stones. I have kept a store if thereīs another fire or I decide to change something but now food is more important than stones. The fisher doesnīt catch all too much but itīs much better than a quarry ruin.

What's not nice is the look at my food production. I do have plenty of apples. Thatīs the only good thing, all other food categories are too low and I will not be able to increase the production, at least not much. I see problems coming. No minor or major nuisance; REAL TROUBLE!  :( :-[

You may also see, that Iīve lost a ― star and a ― heart. Thatīs only partly because of the illness from the last picture. I have also built some houses at the edges of the map to work at the sites I located there. The villages are too far away for these remote farms and orchards; better farmers with 3 stars than living very far away. I also guess that their diet isnīt as good as it should be.

Fourth picture
Here you can see the production numbers. I do produce as much food as I need, but just barely enough and the population still grows pretty fast.

Another problem that will increase the trouble is that I donīt have enough lamp oil so I canīt run my coalmines as much as I wanted and I definitely canīt produce any gold, that I wanted to sell to buy lamp oil, wool and iron. Instead, I need to produce more firewood than I planned, which means I must cut much more trees than I planned, which means there will grow much fewer herbs and the trapper will catch much less wild animals, which means I will have much fewer herbs and fur to sell to buy lamp oil, wool and iron. A very "good" typical example of these Banished "death spirals" where one bad thing leads to the next and so on until everything collapses.

I will try to survive this but Iīm not very optimistic. I have ordered lamp oil from every possible boatman and Iīve built another small trading port. I donīt really have goods to "load it" but there happened to be a nice free spot and I want to increase the chances to get the necessary lamp oil.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 03:41:46 AM
I didn't have much time to play yesterday but things donīt look very good.

First picture

This is good; finally, I got some lamp oil. You can also see the content in my trading port. Since I have a lot of apples I put some in the port to barter for better food diversity. Some merchants pay a higher price than this for apples so you can even make a small profit.

Second picture

The last 20 years or so, I thought about playing this game until year 100 or until I reach a population of 1000 inhabitants. 1000 came first but itīs not good, I canīt support 1000 inhabitants this way on this map and itīs too late to make "life-saving changes".  I have simply built too many houses. I stopped the game here yesterday evening, little depressed, that this will not work but Iīm also a bit proud of myself, that I dared to take some risks. I usually play too safe. This is certainly not safe!

As I went to bed I hadnīt decided if I would stop the game here or play until the "crash" comes. I have now decided I will go on and play these few more years. Thereīs been a long time since I killed a lot of Bannis by starvation. As some of you oldies might remember; I used to do that occasionally in the early days of Banished.  :-\

Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on July 05, 2019, 05:50:34 AM
Glad you are going to continue, I do enjoy seeing the results of a good crash. ;)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 05:51:08 AM
I just played a few more years, we will reach year 100 but how many will survive further than that?  We will see tonight when I will play a little more.
This is no food graph anyone wants in a Banished game.

PS: I also have some ideas about my next game.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on July 05, 2019, 09:52:18 AM
PS: I also have some ideas about my next game.
Don't forget, this one you are going to record so I can watch you play and learn from you!  :D   Don't you recall that subliminal message I sent to you via our chats? ROFL

Go on. You can do it!!!   8)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 10:33:35 AM
Now I know how many survived "the big starvation".

First picture
The first hunger sign was shown in august 100 but the harvest had started and it wasnīt that many houses with empty stores, so no one starved to death that year.

Second picture
Next year was not so nice. The first starvation sign was shown in May. Itīs much too long until something is harvested and since so many people were looking for food, the output from fields and orchards was very low.

Third picture
About 300 Bannis starved to death that spring and summer. I will spare you the ugly pictures. But next year wasnīt good either. The harvest during the starvation was miserable, so many houses were empty again in summer 102. I think I lost another 50 that year and this harvest isnīt good either. You can see itīs September and at some fields, the harvest hasnīt started.

Fourth picture
But at least the harvest was higher than what people needed. The food store is very small but it looks like everyone has filled up their homes, so no one starved that summer.

Fifth picture
And this year the harvest will be alright, and the population grows again.

It could maybe be possible to demolish 40 houses and make some smaller changes here and there and survive in the long term but no, Iīm done with this town.

And @MarkAnthony; NO I will not make any videos, I havenīt even an idea on how to record a game and no ambition to learn. The "cyberspace" is full of bad game videos, thereīs no need for another one. But probably I will write a little about it. Besides, my plans may have changed. @Discrepancy has made something new that had caught my interest.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: moonbelf on July 05, 2019, 10:40:28 AM
Nilla you sincerely did your best with this town. I've had failures after death spirals that I couldn't stop from happening.

What is it that you're going to try next? Something of discrepancy's?

As for what you say here, I agree about the bad videos and also have no intention of even trying to record or upload. I'd rather enjoy myself playing the game :)
Quote
NO I will not make any videos, I havenīt even an idea on how to record a game and no ambition to learn. The "cyberspace" is full of bad game videos
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on July 05, 2019, 10:46:36 AM
LOL   :D

I somehow thought I heard a "tone" with that "No" and an accompanying "finger-wag" directed at me.  Hehe
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 11:49:52 AM
You can hear what you please in my words @MarkAnthony. Thatīs the good and the bad things with words. But you can be sure on one thing; itīs never meant to diminish someone.

And yes, @moonbelf, DS just released a new industrial mod in early beta. It sounds like heīs tweaked the happiness and health systems. I canīt resist such things.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: moonbelf on July 05, 2019, 12:22:40 PM
Quote
And yes, @moonbelf, DS just released a new industrial mod in early beta. It sounds like heīs tweaked the happiness and health systems. I canīt resist such things.

Thanks @Nilla I'll have to check that out. More happiness and health sounds great!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 12:29:56 PM
Iīm "afraid" that itīs not more but less happiness and health in that mod but I am just about to download and arrange my new modlist. We will see.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: moonbelf on July 05, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
Iīm "afraid" that itīs not more but less happiness and health in that mod but I am just about to download and arrange my new modlist. We will see.

Yes I just read through Discrepancy's description of his new mod and I see that health and happiness are going to be hard to achieve. I've downloaded it and will try it out soon.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 19, 2019, 09:10:49 AM
I didnīt blog that last game I played. It wasnīt really meant to be a real town. I just wanted to try the new Mexican mod from @kid1293. I played a few years and got some impressions. Since I find it a decent way to act, I told at Kidīs thread what I liked, not liked, and about a possible bug. I also wanted to show a picture of the town. It is kind of extreme and maybe I thought Kid wanted to see such a weird town as well. That was all I wanted to do.

Now, Kid fixed the bug but also changed some production numbers; set the production of the patches down about 30%. Of course, that was a challenge I needed to take. There were also some comments about different things; my building style with only yellow houses. They were supposed to look like some slum. And maybe youīre right @MarkAnthony; it is some kind of slum. When I built the first house, I looked at the colours and choose the one most like the "natural ground", that these poor people could afford. Although Iīm not sure it looks like "the blocks". I find itīs more like a large holiday resort with all these corners built like that, just to give as many rooms as possible see-view, so they could charge you a bit more. ;)

The game worked also with 30% less food production. It wasnīt that hard, since I ran many of the patches with only one worker, anyway. Add a second isnīt very complicated. First, I wanted to play 20 years, a nice round number. But it is a nice mod. Itīs fun to play with it, so I decided to do one more crazy thing. I rebuilt the nomad hitching post. As you must have understood, Iīve used it frequently in the past, no one can get that large population in such a short time without it. But since it was hard to get enough building materials for houses for every nomad of the last big group (and the young adults from the town), I decided to demolish it.

So I spent a year of preparing; mainly expanding production and import of building materials and make sure that there were not too many adults living at home. A group of 944 nomads arrived. It took more than a year to get houses to all of them and in that time, no no new young couples. So now Iīm behind building houses.

I made 2 general big mistakes that increased the lack of houses; I built too few schools and no wells. I wanted this "slum look" of the settlement without any schools in between, so the schools are located in one big mission school centre and a few odd places at the corners. That means that the students need to walk longer to school and graduate later than usual.

I decided to use this old blog; It has the right headline; I do want to fill this small map. But there will be no more nomads! (at least I think so) ;)

First picture
This is the most popular spot on the map.

Second picture
I talked about the cactus fruit in Kidīs thread. The smaller gatherers Iīve tried donīt pick them. The only way I see is to make it manually. I send everyone out every spring to pick fruit. This is how much has grown since last year. Every red spot gives 65 food. Itīs still enough to support this large settlement with fruit but as the maps fill more and more, I will need to buy some fruit.

Third picture

From where do all these immigrants come? Are they all Americans who had fled to Mexico because of some environmental disaster?

Fourth picture
Sorry, @MarkAnthony. Your house burned down.  :'( This should be a warning to everyone who plays disasters on and forgets to build/canīt spare stone for enough wells. There were at least 150 homeless and a large number of houses to rebuild instead of building new houses for the youngsters.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 19, 2019, 10:20:02 AM
Second picture
I send everyone out every spring to pick fruit.

Third picture

From where do all these immigrants come? Are they all Americans who had fled to Mexico because of some environmental disaster?

Fourth picture
Sorry, @MarkAnthony. Your house burned down.  :'(
(2) LOL,with 567 Laborers how long does it take to clear that whole area, what maybe four minutes?   ;D
(3) More likely due to our current Commander Rebel in Chief.   :-X
(4) I kind of felt like you were trying to evict me all along anyhow.  :( As you saw in the previous image I was in, I was outside trying my darnedest to catch a refreshing breeze; you wouldn't fix my A/C no matter how many times I sent a request for repair. And now? My home *mysteriously* burns down? Hmmm... Guess the States weren't so bad afterall; I'm heading back! Think I may go slosh around in the swamps or something, 'git me sum gators!  ???
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 20, 2019, 03:40:12 AM
Go and get you some īgators, Mark. But beware, you might lose a leg or two. ;)
And it doesnīt take very long to pick some 1000 cactus fruit. And now some 5 years later I have 1477 labourers, so I guess itīs even faster done, but mainly because the total "wild" area is smaller. But it still gives a good harvest every spring. In fact, thereīs no wild area at all left, itīs all forest. Iīve used a little trick in the forest, that I think, work quite good if you want to get a maximum output of logs as well as fruit; I have one normal forester working but also a cactus forester at the same spot. As far as I have seen, the cactus forester only plants his cactuses but also helps to cuts trees. Since the fruit grows where there are cactuses, the forest is full of them this way. Maybe here @kid1293 is a thing to look at; if you cut a cactus manually, you get some water, but the cactus forester doesnīt produce water, same as a gatherer (at least the one from the " Tiny" mod) doesnīt pick cactus fruit. To me, that would be a natural thing to add. (It wouldnīt even make the game harder, rather a little bit easier ;) )

What about the game? The population grows fast, also without new nomads. Iīm still behind building houses, but not that much anymore. I still have no wells, just as an experiment and there was another larger fire, not more than about 10 houses this time, but still a small setback. I usually build wells when I play disasters on and I think they pay off. With close wells, there are seldom more than 1-2-3 buildings lost.

The map is now as full as I wanted to build it; still, my 3 forest areas left. But since we donīt need many logs, I think we can buy enough in our 2 big and 2 small trading ports. I will increase the production of pottery and try also to buy some fruit. Now, Iīm buying proteins, some tools, coal for tool production, stones and a few logs. So I have decided to go on and really fill the map with as many houses as possible, but still try to have a sustainable settlement, that can survive a population growth. This town is already bigger than my rowhouse game, the first one in this blog series. 

First picture
Itīs not much new to show, everything looks pretty much the same but I think I havenīt shown my forest/cactus area. I donīt think Iīve shown the population graph either.

Second picture
This area also looks different than the rest of the map. The school centre, also with a hospital, a very popular mission kitchen serving tortillas and some tool production. You can also see the production numbers. We are self-sufficient on food, fuel and clothing but need to buy tools.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on September 20, 2019, 09:02:04 AM
-reply about cactus-

I have tried and can not see where the game loads the definition of what to cut.
I have tested and, sure, no cactus cut down.

I cleaned an area and set cactus forester to plant only.
Waited a year and cleaned all other things from the area.
I switched to cut and the forester went idle immediately.

Any modder knowing what this is about? Is it in the game mechanics?
Does forester cut only predefined things? Where are they defined?
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 21, 2019, 02:14:12 AM
This game has come to its end.  :( It was a very nice game; big but not stressful in any way. There are lags but they are not very disturbing. Iīve been playing a lot 1x speed and here you rarely notice anything, also on 2x speed, itīs not very annoying. Itīs certainly a big difference to a town with the same population on a big map. I think the town is "sustainable"; that it could reach the population high and still live this way but we will never know for sure. When the map was full, I tried to set the speed to 10x, just to watch how it goes but now I do notice the lags and 10x isnīt really faster than 2x. The town is at the moment no "self runner". I do all trade manually. Itīs only 4 ports, 2 of them small where you canīt trade a lot anyway. But also here, it takes years to get auto trade working: I want to buy enough tools but not fill my (too few) stores with tools, I want to sell some firewood and clay, but not all of it............. I donīt like to fine-tune that now.

I said, that I had too few barns, I never planned to build this big and store so much food. I didnīt want to demolish anything to build more stores, so instead, I spammed the map with small food markets; more or less every spot where one could be built, there is one. It looks odd and I donīt really know how it works in the end. Maybe these odd remote markets, where no one normally gets their food, will hold all fish and apples and nothing will be left for the "normal" markets. I donīt know but again, it takes too long to find out. I can only say; it worked in the way that thereīs again some free space in many barns.

I was also a bit careless building water production sites. I didnīt really count like; "5 patches need 1 well", something I normally do. I just put them where there was some small free space. To get a good production at the patches, that has an input of water, you need some overproduction but not this much. I sell water but thereīs still too much, so Iīve closed a lot of production sites.

There were two major diseases where more or less everyone was ill but they were both not very lethal; dysentery and influenza.

Not much new to show. Everything looks pretty much the same.

First picture
I donīt think I have shown maps and mods, they are cut into this picture.

This was the first year the production was considerably lower than the consumption. You can see the reason here.  :P

Second picture
I know, we are not so many "geeks" here on WOB who really want to understand the dynamics of the game but maybe someone is a bit interested. I find the population graph of this game is much more linear than in other big games where the growth is "steeper"; increases more and more the bigger the town gets. I wasnīt that far behind building houses, so I donīt think that is an explanation. Is it because the nomads are average older than young couples who move out? Normally couples get 3 and sometimes a 4 child after the first has moved out, but nomad families already have some kids and donīt get so many more? Or have anyone some other theory.

Third picture
Goodbye Berle. Itīs been a pleasure! 5517 inhabitants on a small map, weird!  ??? :P

Thanks @kid1293 for making this possible. :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: kid1293 on September 21, 2019, 05:00:55 AM
:) You're welcome. Nice pictures. Gave me a laugh or two :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 27, 2019, 05:47:54 AM
You know Kid, everything is possible and Iīm pleased that this town could amuse you, too. I was amused! :)

After that big town, I needed a little break but not too long. Yesterday I started a new game. I kind of like this series on small maps.  It shows the variety of Banished quite well. I like variation so I choose to go from the fast game at "the land of plenty" to the right opposit. And what in Banished is the toughest, slowest surviving challenge? North IRONMAN is my suggestion. Not only does it have @Tom Sawyers system of happiness, where the "3-star people" idle a lot, they also need the double amount of food and itīs "real-time ageing" slow. I didnīt choose the hardest starting conditions. I have played on "harsh" with a "survivors" start. It works but it makes more fun to play on "mild". Until you have the luck and a merchant bring sheep you need to hunt extremely hard to get enough clothing (I think, the "ironman" Bannis also need more clothes than usual). Thatīs also not so fun, so I choose the shepherd start.

Obviously, I was getting a bit too comfortable after playing an easy game, so I must confess, that I would have lost two of my start Bannis of starvation if I hadnīt gone back to the autosave. I had forgotten how greedy the people of the first house is and also how stupid some hunters are: The couple who occupied the first house took all potatoes left from the beginning and 100 venison and put it in their house store. Instead of putting the meat from the deer theyīve just killed in the newly built storage barn, the hunters put it on the ground OUTSIDE the bags that are there from the start. I guess, there wasnīt room enough for 100 venison in one bag. The little venison left in the bags wasnīt enough for all homeless Bannis so two of them starved to death just beside two big venison roasts.  :P ::)

The second time, I fake demolished the bags, so the hunters put the venison in the store and everyone could eat and survive.

Now, Iīm struggling with my second mistake; too many children to support. From my earlier "Ironman" games I know, that slow growth, few children, small houses are the key to a comfortable game. And what have I done? Big houses for every couple! Stupid! Stupid! Now there are as many children as adults, so the next nomad couples that are attracted from the small chapel will need to live in small goathis for 3 people (unless the woman is older than 37).

First picture
First, there seemed to be only boys born in this place. At this point, I should have stopped building big houses, if not earlier.

Second picture
But no, also the nomad couple from last year got a nice big house. And now, there are two more children; at least they are both girls, so thereīs hope for a next generation..... if we get that far...... but......... I have good hopes; small houses from now on, the spot is nice; several big herds of deer walking through and on that other side of the river, thereīs a large gold deposit, so we will be able to buy some seeds and start to farm.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 28, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
A few more years, still a struggle with a lot of micromanagement but the settlement prospers. Iīve started to make as many as possible happy. It is a big difference in productivity, so I need to decide; small goathis with not so happy people but only one child or happy, highly productive workers in big houses with a lot of children to support. Nice! :) My strategy at the moment is to settle younger nomads in goathis outside the village, close to some more remote workplaces and elder women and her husband in a big house in the village centre, covered by all happiness buildings. I want to reduce the number of children. Fewer children to support means less micromanagement.

At this picture itīs September. There are busy farmers (easy to see which farmer lives in the goathi, I have to send one farmer thatīs done with her field to help). There are also a lot of labourers, picking wild food in the forest. In winter some farmers go in their workplaces to grind wheat, or make clothing, some bake bread or smoke meat and fish, we have herdsmen, hunter and fisher, produce firewood and tools, we build houses and clear land.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on September 28, 2019, 06:44:27 AM
@Nilla what mods do you use with the North?

Also, the version I have is from 2016. Where can I find the latest version? never mind, found it
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 28, 2019, 02:13:06 PM
Sorry, forgot to tell which mods, map ...
Here they are.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on September 28, 2019, 05:29:20 PM
It's been 3 years since I've played The North, I'd forgotten how hard it was, and how much micromanagement it requires. Everything is hard, food, firewood, tools, coats (and this, with a fair climate). You can't really get going until you import some glass, bricks, and rooftiles. Fun!!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 29, 2019, 02:54:03 AM
Yes, the North is very much different; a bit like another game. But you can play very well without entering "modern times" where you need bricks and roof tiles.  (A few pieces of glass might be good early but thatīs all). For what do you want bricks this early? Donīt forget; thereīs a very small/no penalty for uneducation for many professions. Thereīs not much need of a school this early. I suppose you want a Town Hall, thatīs still missing for an early game. Thatīs the reason I use Kidīs Tiny. In other games, Iīve also used its hospital, but here I want to test, how the sick people without hospital recover happiness. So I have built no hospital. (You can see, that it works pretty well earlier in this thread http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=3039.msg61526#msg61526 ) But itīs also fun to play "modern times" with all the beautiful red buildings.

Your cows make your life more complicated; with only deer, you can make the coats at the campfire and with sheep you can make your wool coats at the very useful farmerīs workplaces without processing. Maybe itīs a good idea to start the North after such a long time with vanilla game speed but if you want to play with the happiness system youīll need the real-time ageing Norseman. Itīs really fun and you can use the small chapel to attract nomads and grow with immigration, so the speed will not get all too boring. And with that slow-growing speed, you also have more time to develop these more complicated chains. (or Ironman but unless youīre as bald as @MarkAnthony, I would wait with that mod).

Yesterday I played a lot, partly watching sport on my other screen. It looks like I was too busy watching TV to make any screenshots, so Iīll just make some from my town as it is now.

First picture
It was a struggle but finally, Iīve got food production under control. The number of children compared to adults has gone down and I donīt need to micromanage that much anymore; I only let the orchard farmers do other things in winter and of course; still only clearing land and building in winter; using my farmer-labourers. I think Iīve taken every nomad and I "work" with the population: If the woman is young, I settle them a bit outside the centre in a goathi. If sheīs a bit older, they get a big house in the village. If thereīs a woman in her late 30s living in a goathi. I build a big house for her family in the village and let some youngsters move into that goathi. (Often itīs a single 12 years old, but thatīs another matter)

You can see @irrelevant; no brick buildings. Iīve used some glass for the alehouse and Iīve also built my first modern barn that needs a little glass. If you look at the food graph you can see that there was absolutely no need for larger stores until recently. (I now understand why you need your bricks @irrelevant ; of course, you want bigger barns but I can assure you; it works very well with small stores; try it and you will see.) ;)

Second picture
Iīve built one new orchard every year. My plan is to export a surplus of apples and buy other cheap food. I donīt know yet if it works, so far I donīt trade much; You can see the content in my port. I have bought some cheap food when I had the possibility but now I mostly buy some iron and steel tools, if I can afford to buy them.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 29, 2019, 05:20:41 AM
Quote
I think Iīve taken every nomad and I "work" with the population: (1)If the woman is young, I settle them a bit outside the centre in a goathi. (2)If sheīs a bit older, they get a big house in the village. (3)If thereīs a woman in her late 30s living in a goathi. I build a big house for her family in the village and let some youngsters move into that goathi. (Often itīs a single 12 years old, but thatīs another matter)
Good morning Nilla.

I've read so many posts here in the forums that it isn't too long before I've forgotten all I've read; only certain things stick. Why is it again,  that you use Goathi's the way you do? Thanks.
               
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 29, 2019, 07:27:09 AM
Quote
Why is it again,  that you use Goathi's the way you do?
Only because I play "Ironman".

I donīt want so many children to support. Ironman works quite well if the ratio is not lower than 2 adults-1 child/student. The goathi is for a 3 person family. Young women in a big house mean first 3 children and probably 1-2-3 more after the oldest have moved out. Thatīs hard to support. But the disadvantage is that the goathi detracts happiness. Itīs hard to get people living in it happy. Thatīs why I prefer to build bigger houses for elder women; there will not be many more children and I have a happy, not much idling family.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on September 30, 2019, 04:43:57 AM
A lot of sport yesterday; a lot of Banished ;)

My strategy seems to work, a lot of apples, a lot of food. Iīve also built a big port but at the moment, the small ports with barter trade work better. There are very few merchants that want to pay a lot of daler for my apples and furs. I order cabbage and bread from some merchants and from the others, I also buy some gold and silver, iron and steel tools. I still micromanage a bit, you can see the still closed orchards on the picture. But on the other hand; after Iīve built a school, there are more hungry mouths to feed than I really want. Itīs a difficult balance; expansion - few children. Nice!

Iīve built the school because I slowly want to enter "modern times" with the red houses and I want to build a small industry with glass, brick, iron, tool, clothes production with only educated workers. But Iīm far from there yet. The first students have just graduated. Luckily the Athletics World Championship will go on the whole week so I will have some time for Banished. A perfect combination. ;)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on September 30, 2019, 06:18:09 AM
Very nicely done @Nilla And look at all those barns! ;)

As soon as I feel comfortable again with the peculiarities The North brings (and I'm certainly reading your postings closely), I'm planning an Ironman town of my own.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on September 30, 2019, 11:01:36 PM
Wait! So, something just occurred to me. I have Ironman enabled in this town, does that mean that I've been playing Ironman, in addition to my other starting conditions, and didn't even realize it? ROFL!  :o ??? ;D 8)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 01, 2019, 01:08:59 AM
You can check it if you go in your running game to options -> map. If there is a line about Citizens: Ironman! then you have it already. ;D
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 01, 2019, 01:13:49 AM
 :D @Tom Sawyer thanks!

@Nilla sorry for hijacking your thread!  :-[
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on October 02, 2019, 03:02:10 AM
If thereīs anyone who can play "Ironman" without noticing it; itīs you @irrelevant. Youīre amazing!  ;D ::) But I can still give you one small tip; search the river banks for gold nuggets. Good at the beginning to buy seeds and expensive grain.

And you can always hijack my threads. Iīm honoured! :)

Not much has happened in my game; itīs slow but the settlement is still prosperous. Everything goes according to my plans. I had a theory about sick people and happiness, that I wanted to test. I had the opportunity as smallpox hit the settlement before I (deliberately) built a doctor. In other games, I have seen that if people get sick without a doctor, they are very hard/impossible to make fully happy. It has always been early in games with other bad conditions, that also have an influence of the happiness like; beeing homeless, bad diet, no coat...... But I think, Iīve seen that when later in a game, when people have a "good life", they can endure sickness without losing stars. And now, I can say for sure thatīs how it is. You can see a small drop of happiness after the disease but thatīs because maybe 15 people died. And children who lose a parent also lose happiness, even if thereīs a graveyard. You can see that in a vanilla game as well. So again; the happiness system is complicated. Itīs a combination of many things. Not possible to understand in detail.

First picture
Now I have a doctor. You can see the very nice red building in the upper right corner. There are 4 stars and 4 hearts, quite constant for a long time. (Almost?) everyone in my two villages is fully happy and healthy. The drop comes from all these people living in more remote places, like in this forest where no one has more than 3 stars and most of them less than 5 hearts, some only eat meat and have 0 hearts.

I donīt take every nomad anymore. I want to increase the rate of education, still only 32% but students are graduating, so it will improve.

Second picture

Iīve started to expand to the other side of the river. I use to start a new expansion by building pastures. They will most likely be moved to a more remote place later but itīs good to start with. The land can later easily be transformed into orchards, fields and building space.

You can see the influence of smallpox on the population graph.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 02, 2019, 05:14:21 PM
@Nilla thanks for your advice on the gold, I collected ten nuggets and the next merchant brought wheat seeds for exactly the TV of the gold. Also thanks for your very kind words! Fortunately for me, my strategy for any town involves trying to amass as much food and firewood as I can at all times, above any other consideration, which is precisely what northern ironman calls for.

Your town looks so nice!

Of course I did not stick with your advice on the small housing, to my regret. I wanted that pop boom, but what I did not count on was that the uneducated Northern bannies do not become adults at age ten. It's what, 14? ETA: Ahh, age 12. So now I am stuck with my 6 adults trying to feed 12 mouths and make goods for trade. I was trying to make fur coats, parkas, and wheelbarrows to put in the TP, but there simply aren't enough bodies to go around. So finally I bit the bullet and spent the 60 logs to build a wooden chapel. Almost instantly I was repaid with two more workers. The woman is elderly (age 33!)  ;D so they just get a goahti for now, but I'll give them a proper house eventually. Also I realized that there is no TV advantage in making fur coats or parkas compared with just selling the furs and hides (unless my thumbnail math is off), so that simplifies things.

In fact, I would say that for ironman in the north, the third priority after food and fuel would be to build that wooden chapel as soon as it could be managed. You don't have to accept nomads when they arrive, but it's nice to have the choice. There are enough tools and coats at the start to last for a few years anyway.

Two things I wonder about, does the chapel confer happiness without a cleric? I see guys idling there even without one. And will it still attract nomads? Going to find out. ETA: Nomads do come without a cleric.

What is tallow good for?
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on October 03, 2019, 01:39:52 AM
You are right @irrelevant; the chapel is the first building I build after the first basic buildings. To your question about happiness and priest, I can say yes and no. It has an effect on the houses inside its circle and it also has an effect if youīre a member (a priest is working). Happiness is complicated. Iīm not sure that you know that living in the goahti or the turf house detracts happiness. I would not say, itīs impossible to make people in these houses happy but itīs hard. All other good conditions must be fulfilled and no bad. Thatīs the reason that Iīve not built any turf houses, even if I do like the look very much.

From tallow, you can make lamp oil, thatīs needed in the mines. You make it at the farmerīs workshop. I canīt see any in your settlement, you might have missed it because itīs at the house menu. I use it for wool coats at the beginning, you need no proper tailor, but also to grind grain. It pays off to make bread from your wheat. But of course, you must micromanage. But itīs not that bad, because you use farmers all the time. Harvest is done, close the field and make flour. No more grain to grind, bake bread. If itīs still not time to plant, go back to the workplace and make some coats. Different from all other things in Banished but it works.

I think you have seen it right; itīs none or only little profit to produce fur coats, tools and other more advanced products at the beginning with uneducated workers, better to sell the raw materials if you need to trade. I even occasionally buy tools and iron to focus on food production.

I thought my game was a bit boring; slow growth, slow expansion, a little micromanagement, a little trade: safe. But if you think like that in Banished, thereīs a big chance that youīll be punished. I was!  :-\  First picture.

Second picture
I know it from earlier games; these homeless people are terrible workers! Itīs October. Normally the harvest is done but look at the fields! The orchards arenīt one bit better. In some, they have hardly picked any apples at all. I have no idea what they are doing out in the forest. If you click on one homeless out there, it might be a farmer "working".  ???  :P

But you can see; my stores contain a lot of apples, so itīs no disaster. We survived this too. It took some time to rebuild, partly because of these bad workers but also because I was out of stones and my earlier big store of logs went down, so now Iīm not sure if we can produce enough firewood but we will manage. I can always close the meat and fish smokers. Not sure if they pay off, anyway.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 05, 2019, 03:13:49 PM
Iīm not sure that you know that living in the goahti or the turf house detracts happiness. I would not say, itīs impossible to make people in these houses happy but itīs hard.
I did not know that. Moving towards log cabins.

It has been so hard to get this town going. Always the struggle to provide food and fuel, and then to make coats and tools when stocks run low. The nomads have been crucial to provide additional labor needed to make things run, but then you have to feed them and keep them warm.

Had lots of problems with forming new families. I build a new house when there is a couple ready to start a family, then only one of the two moves in. If I do fake demos to push things along, it just makes one of the two homeless. Finally, if I waste enough micromanagement on them, they eventually do hook up, after literally years of trying. And in the meantime, food stocks always are less than I like them to be, because my attention has been divided. Maybe they just don't really want to hook up when they are so young?

Finally got one of the merchants to bring a quantity of wild oats, and then he came again. Wild oats (and furs to buy them!) and nomads are keeping this town afloat. But maybe I'm almost to the point of breaking out of the beginning stage (in year 21!).

I absolutely cannot get wheat to make a useful crop in this climate. @Nilla is this your experience also, or just my bad luck? Looking for rye seeds....

Wheelbarrows are one of the best early trade goods out there; one log makes one wheelbarrow TV24, although production is slow. But the Farmers Workshop is perfect for this.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on October 06, 2019, 01:29:09 AM
Maybe they just don't really want to hook up when they are so young?
Thatīs exactly the way it is. You can try and try to get them together but they will not do this until they are both 15. And by then they will move together without any kind of micromanagement and leave one empty(?) house. This is one of the problems in real-time aging without schools. If the age of getting adult is lower than the age of marriage. (Maybe not with Ironman where I want the youngsters to stay at home as long as possible)  There is no way to prevent the 12 years old to move out and live alone in a house, even if you have a large number of 19 years-old of both genders.

Finally got one of the merchants to bring a quantity of wild oats, and then he came again. Wild oats (and furs to buy them!) and nomads are keeping this town afloat. But maybe I'm almost to the point of breaking out of the beginning stage (in year 21!).
Just to let you know, wild oats (and all other food worth 1 or 2) doesnīt really belong to the North. It comes with the Tiny mod that has the NewFlora. Normally grain costs 4, fruit 5 and vegetables 3.

I absolutely cannot get wheat to make a useful crop in this climate. @Nilla is this your experience also, or just my bad luck? Looking for rye seeds....
If you play "harsh" forget farming. If you play "fair", you can farm but you will hardly get 100% from your fields and you need to start the harvest manually in August. Thatīs the reason I use to play "mild" if I want to farm. It still makes sense to start the harvest manually but itīs no disaster if you forget. And donīt buy rye if you have wheat. It gives less. You may try barely but you canīt grind and bake bread from it.

Iīve been playing my town a little. Now moving towards "Modern Times". I have too much apples so Iīve decided to demolish some orchards (at least for now). It looks that I donīt need to micromanage the farmerīs workshops anymore this way. The problem is that there are too few merchants who pay daler for my apples and when they arrive they donīt bring more than a few 100 daler. Unfortunately, the same merchant with the small money bag who wants the apples also pays well for wool coats. So if this settlement grows, I will need to spam the river with TP. Not so nice. So maybe we will go back and grow some more vegetables and grain. We will see.

Edit: I just looked at your picture again @irrelevant and I see that you sell venison. If you smoke it, you can increase the value to 3. (at least by some merchants) You will need some firewood, but not very much so if you have a surplus of meat/fish that you want to sell, smoking pays off.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 07, 2019, 12:30:34 PM
Finally got one of the merchants to bring a quantity of wild oats, and then he came again. Wild oats (and furs to buy them!) and nomads are keeping this town afloat. But maybe I'm almost to the point of breaking out of the beginning stage (in year 21!).
Just to let you know, wild oats (and all other food worth 1 or 2) doesnīt really belong to the North. It comes with the Tiny mod that has the NewFlora. Normally grain costs 4, fruit 5 and vegetables 3.
Aw, no! :( Now I feel like I've been cheating. Not sure this town would have survived without it. I think I'll start a new town on a different map with a more forgiving climate.

And @Nilla thanks for your other helpful comments!
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 08, 2019, 12:56:03 PM
@Nilla @Tom Sawyer Does bread count as grain in The North?
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 08, 2019, 03:39:12 PM
Bread counts as grain, yes. Here is the complete food table: www.banishedventures.com/wiki/food  :)

Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 08, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
@Tom Sawyer Thanks so much! Started a new Ironman town, this time with a fair climate. I need a bit more practice before I can do harsh without those cheating wild oats!

Couple of families of nomads, both with ladies over 40y/o, so no long-term pop help there. OTOH, no extra unproductive mouths to feed. Non-stop micro on 2X for ten years; fun!

eta: wait! Both those families have a child now, I didn't even notice until this minute! Now I seem to remember @Nilla saying they could have children beyond 40  :)

Merchant brought cheap corn seeds; I knew that was too good to be true, should have held out for wheat  ::)

Got two goahti families that each have two children, the description in the toolbar ("a small and primitive home for a surviving family with one child") is inaccurate.

Going to move the sheep pen up to the right of the orchards, replace the existing one with farms. I'll need the space where the skinny field is for housing.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Nilla on October 09, 2019, 01:16:03 AM
The goahti is for families with one child. Either they had two children when they moved in or the couples have separated for a short time. Otherwise, Iīve never seen more than one child.

Good luck with your town. With a "fair" climate, you will have some struggle with wheat or rye. Good years the harvest will be OK, hardly 100% but at least worth to farm other years you will get very little. As I said; if I want to farm when I play ironman, I prefer "mild" climate. Itīs less stressful. Barley works better if you want to grow grain and turnips for the start and later when your people are educated cabbage (or beans).

We are moving into our new apartment at the moment, so I have little time to play Banished at the moment. So nothing new from my town.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 09, 2019, 07:09:11 AM
@Nilla @Tom Sawyer the two-child families definitely were just a childless couple when they first moved in. It's possible that a brief separation (would have been only for a few seconds in each case) was responsible, in each case there already was a single child. In both cases I had built a new goahti for a nomad couple, but one of the original couples (already living in a goahti with a single child) split up and instantly grabbed it upon completion. Both times I saw it happen and evicted them back to their original goahti immediately. Surprising that such a short separation would result in an additional child. Life finds a way  ;)

Question regarding trappers, does the trapping only happen in woods, or does it take place throughout the circle, even in clear areas? Time to build my trapper and I'm wondering what sort of site would be best for it.

Good luck with your move, @Nilla, moving is one of my least favorite things to do.
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2019, 12:33:04 PM
Yes, trappers need forest. Especially old-growth forests where trees are not cut down as soon as matured. With intensive forestry the yield goes down. So a large untouched forest area is the best.  :)
Title: Re: Nilla-filling small maps
Post by: irrelevant on October 09, 2019, 07:12:40 PM
@Tom Sawyer gotcha, thanks! :)