World of Banished

MODS Garage => Mod Talk => Topic started by: Discrepancy on July 05, 2019, 07:35:28 AM

Title: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on July 05, 2019, 07:35:28 AM
DS Industry Mining  -  BETAv.05 - 20190829

enhances the mining and metal industries. Iron is now smelted from Iron Ore. Copper Ore and Tin Ore is available as an early-use resource. Includes over 50 added resources, and more than 40 buildings + many decorations & variants. this is a BETA version, and as such may be unstable.

sorry not much of a description, but I now have a couple of pictures to show:

(https://i.imgur.com/PHIHLRD.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/pfQporl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aVgN7I3.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/LlBhj7k.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h2TT3Qr.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/JLlHivf.jpg)

Change Log: (https://ds-mods.net/changelog/ds-industry-mining/)

 BETAv.05 - beta update: major update and additions   -- 20190829  |  .zip = 165mb (169,404kb)   .pkm = 278mb (284,895kb)
        - replaced some of the worker professions with the following:
                 - Char-burners are now employed at Charcoal Piles & Coke Ovens.
                 - Lime-burners are now employed at the Lime ovens.
                 - Potters are now employed at the Pottery kilns.
        - increased the spawn chance of Copper Ore at map load, further reduced Iron Ore.
        - adjusted the map trees; maturity is now 4 years and reseeding can occur after 2yrs (was 3.3yrs maturity, reseeding at 3yrs),
                          seed distance and spawn chance has been increased, and the maximum growth has been increased for longer living trees.
        - further adjusted the map sand resource to not spawn into too deep water.
        - Health/Happiness and citizen changes:
                 - further reduced the time a citizen is immune to a disease after recovering.
                 - further increased the fuel usage of citizens (110% of normal).
                 - increased the detraction radius of the Smith's Hearth.
        - reduced create count of Lamp Oil, now 5-6. value to a variable of 2-4.
        - increased production input of Candles, now requires 5 Beeswax or Tallow.
        - altered production input of Lamp Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery.
        - altered production input of Seed Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery.
        - altered production input of Linseed Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery, removed firewood requirement.
        - reduced create count of Coal, now 4-5.
        - reduced create count of Copper, Iron and Tin Ores, now 3-5. Altered weights of ores.
        - reduced create count of Tallow, now 2-3.
        - reduced the amount of Tallow dropped at death by wild deer, and cows.
        - reduced create count of Timber, now 3-4.
        - reduced create count of Coke, now 21-34 from 21 Coal, reduced storage weight to 3.
        - reduced the value of: Copper Tools 18/*20/*^22, Iron Tools 24/*26/*^28, Steel Tools 30/*32/*^34.
        - reduced the durability of Copper Tools, 75/*100/*^125.
        - reduced the value of Pottery to 6.
        - altered production input of Tools:Fisherman made with copper, now requires 3 logs.
        - altered production input of Tools:Hunter, no copper, now requires bronze instead and 3 logs.
        - reduced the amount brought to trader of: Almonds, Beeswax, Flax, Hazelnuts, Lamp Oil, Lime, Linseed, Pistachio, Seed Oil, Stone.
        - increased the amount brought to trader of all the coins: Farthing, Halfpence, Silver Groat, Quarter Noble, Half Noble, Noble.
        - altered production input of Farthing coin, now 1 Copper.
        - altered production input of Quarter Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 2 Copper.
        - altered production input of Half Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 2 Bronze.
        - altered production input of Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 1 Bronze.
        - reduced the create count of the Halfpence coin to 13, removed the inclusion of Copper in their production.
        - increased the production time at the Coke ovens.
        - increased the production time and work required at the Lime ovens.
        - increased the production time of the Smith's Hearth and the Anvil Workshop.
        - increased the production time of the Thadd Surrel & family: Flax Weaver.
        - reduced the production time of the Water-powered Blast Furnace and the Thadd Surrel & family: Blast Furnace.
        - removed the ability to forge Copper and Iron at the Smith's Hearth and Blacksmith.
        - improvements to the button sprites for collection of ores, sand and clay.
        - improvements to the models of the Sand and Clay deposits on the map.
        - replaced the Firewood, Iron, Log and Stone resource models with the BetterStockPiles models.
        - increased storage capacity of the Assayers Office, increased worker count to 2.
        - altered the Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant. Now known as the goods buyer, boats will buy all resources with payment of coins, gold & silver.
        - added Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant, purchase office building, where you can trade for goods with your coins, gold & silver.
        - added Assayers Coin, Gold & Silver Storage add-on building.
        - added uncovered version of Thadd Surrel & family: Well.
        - added Tin Ore deposits to the map, and collection menu button.
        - added a Placer Mine building for Tin Ore and Gold mining along waterways.
        - added Thadd Surrel & family: Tinsmith building.
        - added Tinware resource, crafted goods & utensil limit.
        - added Flax to the list of crops that you can start a game with.
        - added five new start conditions based upon the new industries and buildings.
        - added three more Storage Yard options: Iron & Metals, Building Materials & Logs, Fuels: Household.
        - added Bronze Bloomery Smelters.
        - added Bronze Tools, value of 20/*22/*^24, durability 90/*115/*^140.
        - added Wood Chopper, 2x2 single woodcutter, firewood from logs or timber.
        - added the Monument of Thor (based on Eyrarland statue), giving spiritual and safety happiness.
        - added the Monument of Vulcan, giving spiritual and safety happiness.
        - various menu text and tooltip changes, fixes and additions.
        - various changes and additions to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.

 BETAv.04 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190811  |  .zip = 125mb (128,510kb)   .pkm = 211mb (216,836kb)
        - fixed issue of Clarence Silver Mine not storing/using input resources correctly, this has meant the removal of the chance of mining Gold.
        - fixed incorrect limit spinner in Clay & Sand Quarries.
        - fixed incorrect work button texts at Worker's Construction Yard.
        - fixed/changed the disease/illness notifications to better match new illnesses.
        - increased the work time of the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - increased the work time of making oil at the Thadd Surrel & family: Press Shed & Oil Kiln.
        - increased the storage capacity of the Smith's Hearth.
        - increased the work time and work required of the standard banished CutterYard.
        - increased the work time of the standard IronMine.
        - increased spawn chance at map load of stone resource.
        - increased the production speed of the blacksmiths: Smith's Hearth, Anvil Workshop, Blacksmith, Thadd Surrel & family: Blacksmith.
        - adjusted the trade boat deliveries at the standard TradingPost.
        - adjusted the map sand resource to not spawn into too deep water.
        - adjusted the size (made smaller) of the UI panel for the Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Office.
        - adjusted the following resources value & create variables:
                 Beeswax value=2, Bricks create=5/8, Bronze value=38, Candles value=5, Charcoal value=7 create 34/55, Clay value=3 create=3,
                 Coal value=3, Coke value=8 create 34/55, Copper value=30, Copper Ore value=4, Copper Tools value=24/*26/*^28, Flax value=1,
                 Glass value=15 create=2/3, Hardened Tools value=36/*38/*^40, Iron value=34, Iron Fittings value=5 create=8-10, Iron Ore value=4,
                 Iron Tools value=28/*30/*^32, Lamp Oil create=6/7, Lime value=5 create=5/8, Linseed create=18, Logs create=4, Pottery value=8 create 3/4,
                 Roof-tiles create=5/8, Sand value=2 create=5, Steel Tools value=32/*34/*^36, Stone value=12 create=2-3, Tallow value=2 create=3/4,
                 Tin value=36, Tin Ore value=5, Tools:Fisherman value=6, Tools:Hunter value=6, Tools:Stonemason value=8,
        - adjusted the following resource production chain inputs:
                 Anvil 1 iron + 1 log + 1 metal-fuel, Bricks/Roof-tiles 8 clay + 1 metal-fuel, or 5 sand + 2 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Charcoal 21 logs, Coke 21 coal, Copper Tool from ore 8 copper ore + 1 log + 5 firewood,
                 Glass 15 sand + 1 metal-fuel, or 10 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel, Glassware 18 sand + 1 metal-fuel, or 15 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Lime 1 stone + 5 coal or firewood, Pottery 4 clay + 1 metal-fuel, or 2 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Wagon Parts 3 log + 1 iron, or 3 log + 3 iron fittings, or 2 timber + 3 iron fittings,
        - altered the Charcoal Piles to match change in production, now made from piles of: 42, 84, 105, 147, 210 or 315 logs.
        - altered the Bloomery Smelters to match change in production, from ore/charcoal/clay quantities: 25/10/13, 40/16/13, 55/22/13, 65/26/13, 75/30/13, 90/36/13, 105/42/13.
        - copper and iron Bloomery Smelters are now separated into their own individual menu's.
        - altered the DS toolbar menu icon for Firewood & Charcoal production.
        - removed Ores & Minerals from storage at Industry Barns (Thadd Surrel and Glass Maker).
        - improvements to the Worker's Construction Yard building model.
        - Health/Happiness and citizen changes:
                 - increased the chance of disease/illness in the unhealthy, and from nomads with lower populations.
                 - changed the duration of disease/illness to approx. 1-3 weeks.
                 - increased the fuel usage of citizens (105% of normal).
                 - increased the penalty for working without a tool.
               -- reduced the time disease/illness is present when trader visiting at standard TradingPost & Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant.
               -- increased the chance of disease at the standard TradingPost.
               -- reduced the chance of disease at the Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant.
        - added more illnesses and diseases: Biliousness, Diarrhea, Endocarditis, Scrofula.
        - added saw audio effect to the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - added water spray particle effect to the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - various text and tooltip additions and changes to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.

 BETAv.03 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190725  |  .zip = 125mb (128,448kb)   .pkm = 211mb (216,689kb)
        - fixed issue of crash caused by Clarence Silver Mines.
        - fixed issue of crash caused by Thadd Surrel & family: Industry Mine.
        - fixed issue of crash caused by clicking on the build site of the Iron Ore Mine.
        - fixed issue of double entry of Stone in the Industry Quarry production menu.
        - fixed issue of coins having too large an icon in some UI panels.
        - Iron Fittings now correctly valued at 3, and create count at 5/8.
        - increased total production of Clay and Sand Digs for beta testing, these buildings will eventually be replaced.
        - increased the construction cost of the Open-Top Up-Draft Kiln.
        - increased work time and work required variables at all mines except silver mines.
        - increased value of Iron Ore to 3.
        - increased value of metals: Copper = 15, Iron = 18, Tin = 21, Bronze = 25.
        - increased the quantity of ores & fuel needed to make metals.
        - increased the value of tools: Copper Tool = 15, Iron Tool = 18, Steel Tool = 20, Hardened Tool = 22.
        - increased the value of the sharpened and oiled 'fine' versions of the tools, by 2 and 4 value added respectively.
        - reduced the work time of the Grindstone.
        - increased the value of Tools:Stonemason to 4.
        - reduced the create count of Bronze to 2/3, reduced the amount of fuel to smelter.
        - reduced the amount of Ores that will be offered by traders.
        - reduced the amount of Iron required to make an Anvil and Wagon Parts.
        - reduced the work time of the Industry Candle Maker.
        - reduced the work time of the Industry Oil Kiln.
        - changed production of Worker's Construction Yard for player to select product.
        - changes to production and speed of Flax Weaver.
        - increased the create count of Linseed to 21.
        - slightly improved the ability to place the Industry Quarry, and reduced the construction cost.
        - added Textile & Fabric storage to both Industry and Town barns (Thadd Surrel & Glass Maker storage).
        - added missing storage tab to the standard banished Herbalist.
        - changes to the production recipes at blacksmith's.
        - added option to make Tools:Hunter and Tools:Fisherman from Copper at blacksmiths.
        - various building text and tool-tip changes and fixes.
        - various text and number changes to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.
        - numerous changes to happiness, health and other citizen.rsc file variables.
        - added new building: Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Desk.
        - added new building: Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Office.

 BETAv.02 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190712  | .zip = 122mb (125,794kb)   .pkm = 207mb (212,680kb)
        - enabled the new illnesses and diseases, made changes to the existing, this was incorrectly disabled in previous version.
        - lessened the unhealthy and happiness levels, this should slightly improve the work efficiency with poor food diversity.
        - meanwhile I have increased the max. required food diversity.
        - slight improvements (closer to standard) to the random disease chance within citizen file.
        - lessened the depressed level in relation to the unhappy and happy level, was 15% of happy level, now: d=10%,u=20%, h=100%
        - increased the medicine (herb) effectiveness.
        - increased the trade value of Iron Fittings to 3, increased the create count per cycle to 5/8.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Copper Ore, Iron Ore, and Tin Ore to 5/8.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Silver Ore to 3/5.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Coal to 5/6.
        - and reduced the weights of Copper Ore, Iron Ore and Tin Ore to 12 (from 25/30/25).
        - shortened the work time and work required by all of the mines - they are much faster now.
        - fixed inconsistent and too low total production output and speed of the 6x6 Clay and Sand Quarries.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Linseed to 13.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Tallow to 2/3.
        - increased the work time required by the Press Shed and Oil Kiln.
        - increased work time and reduced work required by the Glass Maker.
        - improved the Smith's Hearth particle flame.
        - added missing menu icon sprite for the Assayers Office.
        - added build models for the Water-powered Blast Furnace.
        - fixed issue of some items not being stored in Industrial Market.
        - made further alterations to the following standard (vanilla) game template files for the buildings:
            TradingPost, Market, Quarry, Herbalist, DoctorHouse, CutterYard, Chapel, Well, Tunnel, Tavern, IronMine
             most buildings received updates to radius and ui changes to display radius,
             Quarry had consumeproduce and storage updated to reflect usage of new stonemason tools,
             CutterYard had worker count increased to 2 workers but a slower speed penalty.
             Herbalist changes included increased worker count to 3 and the ability to now store Herbs.
             Tunnel received a change in build cost with the addition of 1 Candle per tile.
             IronMine now again makes Iron, but will have a cost of Logs, Candles and Charcoal to mine/smelter, with increased worktime penalty.
             IronMine cost of Coal extraction is Logs and Candles.
        - reduced the spawn chance (amount) of Copper Ore and Stone on a map.
        - added Clay and Sand deposits to the map.
        - added collect Clay and Sand buttons to the menu.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Sand to 8 for both uneducated and educated.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Clay to 5 for both uneducated and educated.
        - moved the Charcoal-piles menu out of 'Mineral, Ore & Raw material processing' menu and into the 'Firewood & Charcoal production' menu.
        - fixed incorrectly flagged resources in the Open-Top Up-Draft kiln.
        - added new building: Worker's Construction Yard.

 BETAv.01 - initial beta release   -- 20190705  |  .zip = 111mb (114,625kb)   .pkm = 188mb (192,608kb)




download here (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=567)


I should add...
Don't use this mod with any of the DSBlastFurnace mods.
But, you should use with most of my other mods, place this above them all.

(https://i.imgur.com/p4owHT2.jpg)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 08:40:25 AM
Hi!
Iīm happy to see you active again. Iīm very keen on testing your new creation. Luckily my present game is going toward its end. I want to ask you; together with which mods would you like to see such a test? My favourite, so far, the townhouses will be there, but wich else do you recommend/make sense to include in a test?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 05, 2019, 09:55:43 AM
You can use any of the mods I have released, using DS Timber Mill or DS Jetty & Bridge will allow a quicker access to Timber (lumber), required for many of the buildings.

Unfortunately I have already spotted an issue in that my latest change has created a worsening health issue and the operation of a herbalist creates a never-ending loop with these sick patients, consequently hampering production.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 05, 2019, 11:59:00 AM
The "herbalist loop" may not be of that importance. To me, herbalists are a pain. I only build one if Iīm sure I donīt need it to collect herbs for export or if I want to test something very special.

But I donīt know if that what you write about diseases thrills me that much, Iīve been beaten by diseases in other games lately. But no challenge too big; Iīll give it a try. And yes, I wanted to use the DS jetty and Bridges, mostly because you write that you need them for the Thomson Trade, that I havenīt tested in that version. Is it still necessary to load that patch? I donīt think it can harm so I will do that.

I will only use a few of your mods, I guess the old basic rule still make sense; oldest mod at the bottom, youngest at the top.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: moonbelf on July 05, 2019, 12:31:52 PM
When I finish my current game, I'm going to try your new mod and use it along with Jetty & Bridge and also Thomson Trade. Should be starting it within the next few days.

Thanks for all your hard work @Discrepancy :)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: 1 on July 06, 2019, 01:24:31 AM
@Discrepancy amazing job with this mod.  :)
Thank you.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 06, 2019, 03:13:26 AM
I have started a game to test this mod. I intend to really "hardtest" it; building all variations of production chains, calculate production numbers and trade profit. You know the whole hardcore geeky kit I sometimes amuse myself with. If someone is interested I have started a blog. Thereīs not much in it yet (except many words) because I didnīt get very far but if someone is interested, itīs here: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=3130.0

I will repeat some questions that I find of more common interest. They are also in my blog, maybe a bit more thorough and sometimes in some special context but Iīll make a short version of them here, easier for everyone to take part in. I hope @Discrepancy that you can answer my question but itīs enough to do it once.

Happiness: Is your happiness system different from the North? It seems so because you are mentioning safety, goods, spirit and entertainment but not health in the info menu. You are also mentioning graveyards as a spiritual location for happiness. They have no happiness circle in the North.

Menus I tried these new statistic menus with a built-in map and event log. A very good idea. But it doesnīt really work by me. Maybe I have some wrong graphic settings. The ingame options menu says a resolution of 1920*1200 so it should be alright. I wanted to look at the game not play around with settings so I went back to my usual vanilla way of menus. Whatīs wrong? The text of the event log is shown on the map and not easy to see. Only one event is shown at the same time and if you want to scroll back and see an earlier event, I always land at the edge of the map, annoying. Is it meant to be that way or can I change something to make it work better?

Health: Is it possible to reach full health with only a balanced diet? I think so but Iīm not sure yet.

Anvil: How do I get an "anvil" to construct an anvil? Do I need to buy one to construct it or can it be produced somewhere else?

Lumber/Timber Is there a difference between lumber and timber? I donīt think so but Iīll better ask. There are different building costs for these two mills, so I guess the Timber mill is better than the Lumber yard but they produce the same thing.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 06, 2019, 05:45:01 AM
Happiness:
The happiness is perhaps similar to the North because really we don't have many variables to influence the citizens happiness apart from the addition of the positives on certain buildings and negatives on others. I have made a similar change to the citizen code file to the North so as to reflect a more noticeable change within a citizens happiness display. Though this might be a little different, and I do not think this mod requires as many foods.
But essentially we are still both using the same variables that were made available to us: the positives Goods (Market), Safety (Well), Spirit (Cemetery) and Entertainment (Tavern), and the negative Detraction (Quarry).
The cemetery does provide a spiritual 'boost' to a citizens happiness, from banished standard, not even a change from myself it has an invisible radius of 30. It essentially gives the citizens the same as a chapel, yet a chapel requires the worker to be active. There is of course the unknown (possible) connection a citizen has to a tombstone... yet so much code is not available to us modders about the true functioning of a cemetery or other variables within the game.
Mostly the happiness functions come directly from the buildings themselves. Within this mod I have utilised them, but not all of my other mods are updated or altered to be the same.

Health:
The thing with health and happiness is I think they are somehow interrelated with another section of code we cannot interact with, for the variable of a minimum amount of food and maximum amount is a variable to happiness and not health. Yet i'm convinced by my own observations it also does alter the health display. I'm not convinced that citizens themselves have a health variable - i.e. I don't think they actually get sick or have any kind of health deterioration or increase from eating more than 1 food group/category, from what I can tell it seems more like labels assigned to different foods to only alter the display, which is a standalone system purely based upon the criteria it fulfills. So like your example of how much variance of food a citizen has available at that time in their home, i think the health flag attachment to herbs is just another label, and whether it acts as a completion to fulfill the health hearts or as a complimentary item, I think you are right that it does only compliment, for a person with a varied balanced diet should be healthy.

The Info panels I was thinking of disabling... as they are very much unfinished, and just as much track my ideas I had before I actually tried to implement them ;)

further to health & happiness,
We have the variables of unhealthy level, unhappy level, and depressed level, these are all themselves seemingly influenced by the star and heart system variable of the given time, it simply produces a known effect to a citizen... which mostly is idling. Early on I think I made it too hard and there was too much idling... but now I believe I have made a mistake in the released version and they are probably not influenced as much to idle.

Menu:
Well actually what you describe is the function of that event log.... sorry, I never included any documentation so all you players are a bit in the dark going into the mod. All I did was overlay the event log... a single event at a time to display over the map, yes the buttons all work fine, but an inadvertent issue is that when you click on them, it registers also on the map so you move the view to that location. I could try to work out how to make the button a different layer over the map though.

So no need to worry about your display as that is fine.
Also, the small inclusion of the 3 professions (Laborer, Builder, Farmer) within that statistic menu on your third picture - if you hover the cursor of your mouse over them, and use the the scroll wheel on your mouse it will scroll through all the professions.

First picture
Yes no orchards and pastures, sorry. I guess because I had always wanted to update DSSV: Production at the same time, it just hasn't eventuated, though they still both work together fine I think.

Second picture
You have highlighted another embarrassing event in my sudden release of the mod yesterday. I had also missed that I had skipped the loading of the new diseases and change to some of the others. I started working on an update and spotted that this afternoon. But yes, the diseases are a scary list, you will get them more often, the likelihood is increased and to randomly within a smaller population than standard banished... but the severity is not as bad and likelihood of debilitating the town is lessened with the changes that I have made to the diseases themselves. I included minor ailments, illness and broken bones to place more of a need into a hospital/doctor function. Though I must make some small alternative models to the big standard hospital.
Yes the interaction and likelihood with traders is also increased.

Third picture
Yes the Smith's Hearth is the ideal for the first things a village will need made by a blacksmith. They are not very fast as they have no anvil and a limited workspace apart from a big hot fire.
But they are resourceful and can make many things.... including an Anvil...

Fourth picture
As I now know how to add the elusive third tab to the residence I will update the mod and move all that text and image into an 'i' info tab.

Fifth picture
Yes many of the blacksmiths will make you an anvil. Purpose built for a blacksmith by a blacksmith. They are heavy, one is all you need for an anvil workshop, but they are also used in the construction cost of the larger blacksmiths now. But you can simply make them at the Smith's Hearth to begin.

Sixth picture
Yes Lumber is the same as Timber, I just prefer the name.

Iron is indeed hard to obtain, there is a very small percentage of Iron Ore upon the surface compared to Copper Ore. A beginning town should only ever make copper tools until they are already mining Iron Ore, as all the small surface deposits will be needed to make iron for iron fittings and other uses in building and construction.

:)




Thanks for your questions and feedback.

There is of course the glaringly obvious problem with my mod and that is:
'Is is profitable?' - smelting yes, but mining and quarrying, probably not... it requires a big rewrite of all values within banished to make it.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 06, 2019, 12:04:22 PM
I think Iīve found a small bug that makes life difficult in my settlement. In the menu, at the start, you write that you have set the price for firewood to 2 (Iīm fine with that) but also increased the amount you get from each log to 6, sounds good as well. But my chopper produces miserably; I have 9 from these Fulbert houses that need less firewood than a vanilla wooden house but the chopper can barely keep up the demand, only producing a little more than 200 firewood each year. As I looked, I can see that heīs not making 6 firewood from 1 log but 6 firewood from 2 logs. It doesnīt work if you would need more than 1 woodcutter yard for every 10 houses, even if there are more efficient firewood producers for the late game.

Another weird thing; Iīve made some charcoal, labelled as industrial fuel. Since I canīt produce enough firewood to have a big store, the Bannis steals the charcoal and burn it in their houses. Is it supposed to be that way?

Edit; when I think about it; under these circumstances, it might be good that they do; you get 4,2 charcoal from each log but only 3 firewood. So I guess I should build another of these smoking charcoal piles ;)

Edit2: This is weird; itīs only the vanilla chopper yard that needs 2 logs for 6 wood. In the jetty construction lumber mill, it works as you say at the menu. 1 log gives 6 firewood and the production is decent. Iīm starting to believe that itīs no bug.

Edit3: since that what I wrote is against all I know about modding (although itīs not much, I can understand the basic) I realized that the only explanation is that there is an uneducated woodcutter, and yes, there was. I thought I managed to get everyone in school but I didnīt notice at the beginning, as I used the event log on the map that one child skipped school. Iīm very sorry for making this fuzz. But isnīt the uneducation penalty a bit too big (100%) for such a simple task as woodcutting? For specialists like blacksmiths, it would be OK but what can an uneducated do wrong by chopping wood?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 06, 2019, 06:48:00 PM
I'm not really sure what is going on with your firewood yard. The cutter should only be taking 1 log and producing 6 Firewood whether they are educated of not. They should both produce the same.
I will have a play around but I have not noticed this with the vanilla woodcutter, (this mod actually make no changes to that building at all, so it might be from another of my mods.

Yes Charcoal is also a Household fuel, I did not include it mentioned in the Info panels as never quite got there.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 07, 2019, 02:42:38 AM
This is weird. I checked again; it has nothing to do with the uneducated woodcutter. I thought so because my only uneducated person lived in the closest house to the chopper. Itīs the vanilla woodcutter yard; it produces 6 firewood from 2 logs also with an educated woodcutter. The Jetty construction Lumber Yard makes 6 from 1 so does the tiny chopper from Kidīs Tiny mod that I thought I should test. Iīm confused; I didnīt think that this was possible; that different sites could use mere or less of the same raw material to produce the same product. But as I said; I know very little about modding. I can only report what I see.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 07, 2019, 04:31:17 AM
I found the issue... it would be from the DS Timber Mill mod.

I had made a different change back then to the Logs and firewood production and it will be changing the vanilla woodcutter yard to require 2 logs.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 07, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
Good, you found the bug.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: moonbelf on July 07, 2019, 10:19:11 AM
@Discrepancy @Nilla I've got to say this mod is a challenge for me. I haven't got anywhere near the experience that either of you have with this game but after playing vanilla and extensive play with RKEC, I thought I had a pretty good handle on everything!

Hah! Wasn't doing to badly until I hit that death spiral with starvation. Gathering resources is really tough, especially logs (maybe was just bad RNG with the map). Made some mistakes early on and wasted some mats but slowly started to recover when I understood more of what I needed to do. Still trying to recover from the starvation spiral but now running into bannies are old and dying and practically no replacements for them *sigh*. Will keep at it. I'm a glutton for punishment lol.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 08, 2019, 02:23:58 AM
@moonbelf , thanks for playing the mod.

You might not be doing too badly, could be just as much my poor mod making ;)

... In all seriousness I have been struggling to find a good balance with it myself in some games. Last week I had a game going into 40th year, I must have expanded too much as my silver mining industry kicked off and I couldn't save it as I lost half the population to purely not having enough fuel to keep them warm. I was putting too much into building the mines and forges that I couldn't keep up with either coal from the mines to coke and the forests for logs to charcoal or firewood for housing.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 08, 2019, 08:07:05 AM
Donīt feel bad @moonbelf this is a challenging mod, in several ways.

First, the changes by happiness and health make people less productive. Especially if you actually have a herbalist. But also without herbalist, the overall production gets down. So weīll need a little more workers than we are used to, to fulfil the basic needs of our Bannis.

Second; the production of iron/metals is much harder. You need more steps and more workers to support the settlement with tools and get enough iron and iron products to develop.

Third; there are so many interesting and beautiful things to look at at the menus and when you build and run them, that you get distracted and forget to clear new land for fields, send labourers to collect stones, minerals or logs, build new houses.............

Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 09, 2019, 12:02:23 AM
Indeed, I think youīre right that the game might be unplayable if you increase the possibilities of getting a disease too much. Not only at the beginning of a game, but also when a settlement grows and you want to build dense. These are the outbreaks in one of my latest towns. Itīs a very dense settlement with a lot of trading ports, blogged here;http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=3039.msg61117#msg61117

Quote
Remember the tornado happened in the early autumn year 53. Itīs now late summer 58; less than 5 years. The settlement has suffered following outbreaks.
And remember there was a massive outbreak of Typhus as the tornado struck the settlement.

Measles (~3 infected)
Typhus >1000
Tuberculosis ~5
Small Pox 1
Scarlet Fever 1
Typhus >1000
Mumps 1
Typhus 4
Small Pox presently 95 (if I go on playing it will be >1000 and many 100 deaths)

Maybe it will be enough with more diseases to make the game harder. Anyway, whatever you come up with; I will be happy to test it.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: moonbelf on July 09, 2019, 09:16:50 AM
@Discrepancy @Nilla  Thanks for the encouragement and kind words you two :) For now I've abandoned the original game. It's a fail. I see that @Discrepancy is working on some edits so I'll wait to start another one.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: irrelevant on July 09, 2019, 09:48:23 AM
Indeed, I think youīre right that the game might be unplayable if you increase the possibilities of getting a disease too much. Not only at the beginning of a game, but also when a settlement grows and you want to build dense. These are the outbreaks in one of my latest towns. Itīs a very dense settlement with a lot of trading ports, blogged here;http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=3039.msg61117#msg61117

Quote
Remember the tornado happened in the early autumn year 53. Itīs now late summer 58; less than 5 years. The settlement has suffered following outbreaks.
And remember there was a massive outbreak of Typhus as the tornado struck the settlement.

Measles (~3 infected)
Typhus >1000
Tuberculosis ~5
Small Pox 1
Scarlet Fever 1
Typhus >1000
Mumps 1
Typhus 4
Small Pox presently 95 (if I go on playing it will be >1000 and many 100 deaths)

Maybe it will be enough with more diseases to make the game harder. Anyway, whatever you come up with; I will be happy to test it.
Interesting that you had two smallpox outbreaks in 58 years, that's harsh. @Discrepancy I'd be interested to see the modded numbers behind the diseases. I'm just curious to see how much they differ from vanilla:

Code: [Select]
Disease         Transmission Acquire “1 in” Percent
Name         Time Chance Radius Chance Death Death
Influenza 0.25 0.6 8 100 50 2
Mumps         0.25 0.5 8 90 35 3
Diptheria 0.25 0.55 8 80 80 1
Dysentary 0.25 0.55 8 80 25 4
Yellow Fever 0.25 0.65 8 60 20 5
Scarlet Fever 0.25 0.7 8 50 15 7
Typhus         0.25 0.75 8 40 12 8
Measles         0.25 0.75 8 30 10 10
Tuberculosis 0.25 0.8 8 20 8 13
Smallpox 0.25 0.85 8 10 5 20
Cholera         0.25 0.9 12 5 4 25
Plague         0.25 0.85 12 1 3 33
[/quote]
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 09, 2019, 11:08:40 AM
It wasnīt 58 years @irrelevant, it was less than 5 years!!!!!
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: irrelevant on July 09, 2019, 03:52:24 PM
 ??? ???
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Nilla on July 11, 2019, 12:46:31 PM
Sorry, I found a weird bug.

Iīve built the industrial market and was wondering why it took so long to fill it. I thought maybe a no hart vendor is working too bad, so I decided to follow the vendor. She just had collected some tools. She went to the market but couldnīt deliver them. She went away, dragging her wagon behind her, still carrying the tools to the next store where she put the tools. After a brief visit at home(!) to grab something to eat, she went to the same store again, put the same tools in her barrow and went to the industrial market again. I suppose she canīt deliver them this time either.

I also had 2 crashes. I will see if I can repeat them to find out more.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: irrelevant on July 11, 2019, 01:49:05 PM
I had that happen to me once years ago using a market from Slink's small markets v1. The vendor got stuck carrying the same load of stuff, fruit I think, from a barn to the market, from the market to the barn, and on and on.

I don't recall what the problem was exactly but I wound up deleting the market, downloading a revision of the mod, and rebuilding it. What she did to fix it I have no idea. THere probably is a discussion about it on this board somewhere....
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.01
Post by: Discrepancy on July 12, 2019, 07:40:04 AM
updated to BETAv.02


A week later and back with an update. I set myself a deadline and stuck to it. It was not easy, and only by chance have I been able to keep to it.

The new update isn’t big on new additions, just one new building; the Worker’s Construction Yard. The building hires 1-2 Workers who will randomly produce a variety of ‘advanced construction resources (Timber, Iron Fittings, Bricks, Roof-tiles, Lime and Glass).
I added spawned deposits of Clay and Sand to the map. Was very much a test, but have decided to keep it in for now.
A lot of alterations, fixes and changes. Added missing diseases and health/happiness changes, water furnace build models.

Balancing is still ongoing, and as such I decided not to update the values in the Info panels this update. With changes still likely to occur I didn’t want to be bogged down by that time-consuming task at this stage.

I thank everyone who has given suggestions and reported bugs (@Nilla), please keep them coming in.

I apologize that this is not a save-game compatible update.


Change Log:
BETAv.02 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190712  | .zip = 122mb (125,794kb)   .pkm = 207mb (212,680kb)
        - enabled the new illnesses and diseases, made changes to the existing, this was incorrectly disabled in previous version.
        - lessened the unhealthy and happiness levels, this should slightly improve the work efficiency with poor food diversity.
        - meanwhile I have increased the max. required food diversity.
        - slight improvements (closer to standard) to the random disease chance within citizen file.
        - lessened the depressed level in relation to the unhappy and happy level, was 15% of happy level, now: d=10%,u=20%, h=100%
        - increased the medicine (herb) effectiveness.
        - increased the trade value of Iron Fittings to 3, increased the create count per cycle to 5/8.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Copper Ore, Iron Ore, and Tin Ore to 5/8.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Silver Ore to 3/5.
        - increased the create count per cycle for Coal to 5/6.
        - and reduced the weights of Copper Ore, Iron Ore and Tin Ore to 12 (from 25/30/25).
        - shortened the work time and work required by all of the mines - they are much faster now.
        - fixed inconsistent and too low total production output and speed of the 6x6 Clay and Sand Quarries.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Linseed to 13.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Tallow to 2/3.
        - increased the work time required by the Press Shed and Oil Kiln.
        - increased work time and reduced work required by the Glass Maker.
        - improved the Smith's Hearth particle flame.
        - added missing menu icon sprite for the Assayers Office.
        - added build models for the Water-powered Blast Furnace.
        - fixed issue of some items not being stored in Industrial Market.
        - made further alterations to the following standard (vanilla) game template files for the buildings:
            TradingPost, Market, Quarry, Herbalist, DoctorHouse, CutterYard, Chapel, Well, Tunnel, Tavern, IronMine
             most buildings received updates to radius and ui changes to display radius,
             Quarry had consumeproduce and storage updated to reflect usage of new stonemason tools,
             CutterYard had worker count increased to 2 workers but a slower speed penalty.
             Herbalist changes included increased worker count to 3 and the ability to now store Herbs.
             Tunnel received a change in build cost with the addition of 1 Candle per tile.
             IronMine now again makes Iron, but will have a cost of Logs, Candles and Charcoal to mine/smelter, with increased worktime penalty.
             IronMine cost of Coal extraction is Logs and Candles.
        - reduced the spawn chance (amount) of Copper Ore and Stone on a map.
        - added Clay and Sand deposits to the map.
        - added collect Clay and Sand buttons to the menu.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Sand to 8 for both uneducated and educated.
        - increased the create count per cycle of Clay to 5 for both uneducated and educated.
        - moved the Charcoal-piles menu out of 'Mineral, Ore & Raw material processing' menu and into the 'Firewood & Charcoal production' menu.
        - fixed incorrectly flagged resources in the Open-Top Up-Draft kiln.
        - added new building: Worker's Construction Yard.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 12, 2019, 07:54:54 AM
@irrelevant ,

these are the latest disease numbers using this mod:
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 12, 2019, 08:13:57 AM
So I should probably warn everyone that now you will be hampered by diseases regularly. It is ideal to start construction of a Doctors House/Hospital quite soon.

Though more often than not the citizens will free themselves of the diseases or illnesses eventually and death is much less than standard game without a doctor, when ill they will idle in their homes and not work, so production will slow.

apart from the actual disease files above, other changes that are altering the chance and severity is within the citizen file:

Code: [Select]
// chance of disease, per year.
RandomSelection _diseaseChanceHealthy
{
float _years = 1;
float _population = 150;
}

RandomSelection _diseaseChanceUnhealthy
{
float _years = 1;
float _population = 80;
}

RandomSelection _diseaseChanceNomadTrade
{
float _years = 1;
float _population = 80;
}

// how long disease lasts in months +-
float _diseasePeriod = 0.3;
float _diseasePeriodTol = 0.2;

// how long immune to disease after recovering
float _immunityLength = 8.0f;
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 13, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Thank you, most of the changes look great! I will start a new game. I will probably not write about it on a daily basis. I have some private trouble; my husband and my mother are both in hospital; different hospitals far apart from each other and I spend a lot of time on the road. I will relax with a little Banished from time to time when Iīm back home and also report larger bugs if I find any but the usual blog and the participation on this web page will have to wait until things are normal again.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Kristahfer on July 13, 2019, 11:16:31 AM
My prayers for your family @Nilla .
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: moonbelf on July 13, 2019, 02:27:48 PM
@Nilla I'm so sorry to hear about your husband and mother. May both improve very soon.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 13, 2019, 07:06:43 PM
Sorry to hear that @Nilla , my thoughts are with you. Hope they both make a speedy recovery and you are safe on your travels.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: RedKetchup on July 13, 2019, 08:58:22 PM
/HUG Nilla
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: 1 on July 14, 2019, 12:52:12 AM
@Nilla
I wish all good for you and your family.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: brads3 on July 14, 2019, 03:36:45 AM
i hope your family gets feeling better soon.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Artfactial on July 14, 2019, 05:31:51 AM
I currently don't have the energy to help testing this but just wanted to say a big thank you to you DS and Nilla for pushing through with this, it looks brilliant.<3
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 14, 2019, 11:41:23 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts on me and my family.  :)

I started a new game yesterday with a "hard" start. It was no good idea if you want to calm down with a nice little Banished game; thereīs no school that doesnīt need iron, thatīs even more difficult than in the North to produce and one of the evil diseases, I think it was smallpox in summer of year one. Opposite to vanilla youīve managed to make the "hard" start hard. :) But this time I quit it and started a new medium game.

Two things I want to tell; I canīt get the Workerīs construction Yard to work proper. In 1― year it produced 20 lumber. I think I have all required raw materials but the worker mostly walks with 9 logs or 6 stones or 20 charcoal or 10 clay back and forth between the nearest stockpile and his site. Obviously, he can produce sometimes but it looks like heīs only looking for raw materials on the nearest stockpile and never goes a little bit further.

The reduced amount of stone on the map really hurts. Everything needs stone, a lot of it. Iīm only in year 7 and all close stone resources are gone. I strongly dislike the vanilla quarry and donīt want to build it and your quarry @Discrepancy is too expensive and hard to locate for the beginning.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 14, 2019, 11:49:22 PM
I was also struggling in my longer tests to get the stone as quarry was too expensive.
I'm going to make it easier to place (will make terra-forming around the placement uglier though) and cheaper to construct.

I haven't had a Workerīs Worker's Construction Yard produce that slowly, I will take a look.

Thanks.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: brads3 on July 15, 2019, 04:31:37 AM
that is a super explanation to the worker's personality. i would have thought he would not work at all until he had materials, then worked til he ran completely out.  if he needed more materials that weren't available,you would think the worker would go idle or walk farther away to find them.

       one of the intricate parts to the game coding that we eiother don't have access to or don't fully understand yet. whatever the cause, i wonder if it is the same reason different venedors have market vendors have different personalities?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 15, 2019, 07:24:14 AM
@Discrepancy I guess, your construction yard uses the same mechanic as my new smokehouse did, with auto-switching between recipes via initialProduct -1. So you probably run into same issues with that. It works fine in a simple mine but with different recipes and input materials, the worker stops and goes idling if the materials for one recipe are not available. It also starts to do strange things at some point like negative amounts of inventories and such. I went back to manual switching but would be cool if we could make it work properly.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 15, 2019, 11:25:54 PM
I can confirm that the Workerīs Construction Yard doesnīt work well this time either. I watched a worker for some time and made some notes. First, she took 6 stones- stones back to SP- took 2 logs- a little work, nothing produced- logs back- 6 stones- stones back- home to eat- 2 logs- logs back- 2 logs- logs back- 9 logs- idle- little work, nothing produced- logs back- 12 sand- sand back- 9 logs- logs back- 9 logs- logs back- 20 charcoal- 2 iron-4 iron fittings produced! I left her for some time, she walked diligently between workplace and stockpile choosing and rejecting different materials but nothing more was produced.

In the industrial mining mod, there's no barn that can hold textiles. Intentional or a bug? I noticed this when I wanted to replace the original vanilla barn but it couldnīt be emptied, a few wool and leather was left. The store from the Bryggen houses can hold textiles, so the vanilla barn is now gone.

I built a small mine. I let one miner work one year and he produced about 130 iron ore. Thatīs a lot but itīs still very unprofitable; 5 ore needs 2 lumber. Isnīt that a little too much? A miner only makes an annual profit of about 50. So itīs still better to buy iron ore and let the miner do something else. But on the other hand; you can produce enough iron this way to develop the town if you donīt want to trade or the merchants donīt bring enough. I hope the bigger mines are more profitable.

The trade value of iron fittings is still 2.

Sorry, a lot of complains but itīs not the whole truth, Youīve done an excellent job. I like the new menus with the information, I like the design of the buildings, I like the increased difficulty in producing many things, I like the expensive building costs and long building times of sites and houses. I still have much to look forward to!

Edit: I forgot to tell; I also had an "outbreak of broken bones". I guess it canīt be changed but it looked funny!
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 16, 2019, 12:56:58 AM
I was doing some adjustments to the Worker's Construction Yard last night, I was also running into similar problems, but not as bad as you described. I was producing 20-30 Timber a year, Iron-Fittings about the same, had glass once, but never produced a Brick or any Lime  :(

It must be as @Tom Sawyer says with the inputs playing havoc with the workers, as it works fine on buildings that don't have an input (my beehives, original tunnel mine, etc).


It is indeed another bug... I noticed that also when I was updating DS TownHouses last night and noticed it was missing from the UI string text. This will be rectified next update. I'm thinking it be included in both barns, thoughts?

The bigger mines only require 1 Timber, but... you will need Lamp Oil also.

How do we rectify this? mining was (and is) historically an expensive operation (in labor and consumed products). I agree it should be profitable to mine the ore, and very profitable with the end smelted result.
Though I don't really want players to build an economy based upon importing ore and then smelting and selling the metals, it could still be an option, but a very low profit one, but as the game stands, it is still too easy to build up a bigger farming community first, export surplus food and I have more than enough to trade for ores or easier, the metals themselves.
On paper I'm trying to adjust everything to try and alter the standard game economy into something that will work... has not been easy. The economy needs to be weighted towards the mining and production industry which has a higher cost.

Iron Fittings should have been changed. Not sure what happened there. Thanks.

Haha, well I never had got that myself in all my testing. I will try alter a couple of the variables differently and see if it stops the transmission.

:)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 17, 2019, 07:08:14 AM
Quote
It must be as @Tom Sawyer says with the inputs playing havoc with the workers, as it works fine on buildings that don't have an input (my beehives, original tunnel mine, etc).
I think so too because the flax weaver works similarly. It still produces but the behaviour of the worker is very odd. The weaver takes 100 flax, produce a little something; say 4 linen from 20 flax and then carries the rest 80 flax back to the barn, gets new 100 flax, produces something, carries the rest back and so on. Opposit to the Workerīs Construction they do produce something each time but only once. If you locate barn and flax and weaver close to each other, the site produces OK but I suppose it would be better if only one thing was produced.

Mines. I built an "Improved mine" I think itīs called. It uses 2 lumber and 1 lamp oil to produce 5 coal or ore; the value of the input is higher than the output. I use it now to produce coal for coke. The Battery Coke Oven is very profitable, so if you look at it together; one miner and one worker producing coke with some input of lumber and lamp oil, itīs a decent production with a decent profit, even if the miner alone is a loss. I donīt like when the value of the input is higher than the output but if you set the input to 1 lumber and 1 lamp oil, I think these production numbers and values can work, at least as long as you canīt buy a large amount of ore and coal, and it doesnīt look like the merchant to the small specialized port bring very much. I will test the other ports too.

This is an industrial mod; to me, it means that it should be possible to let your population work in this industry, sell their endproducts and buy food and other basic needs for it. Every step in this chain mustnīt make a huge profit as long as the end product is valuable enough to support the settlement. But the risk is always if some steps in a production chain are unprofitable, people like me would try to out trick it and buy raw materials and intermediate products. One way to stop this is to give each step of the chain some kind of decent profit, another is to stop merchants from bringing a large amount of these raw and intermediate products. Maybe some combination?

Quote
I will try alter a couple of the variables differently and see if it stops the transmission.
Maybe you got me wrong; It was the text; an outbreak of" I found funny. The "disease" wasnīt spread to anyone else. (Even though it may be contagious, too; I fell from a ladder last summer and broke my foot, my neighbour fell from the same ladder two weeks later and broke his hip)

I have a few new little things.

I really like the look of the big quarry. This is the first Banished quarry that looks good! :) But it looks like you can choose between two different productions, both say the same; 1-2 Stone (Tools; stonemason).

The candlemaker has a wrong text in the menu; it says you need 7 beeswax but itīs only 3. But also this way candlemaking is slow and not very profitble.

The timber mill has a fantastic "animation" of the wheel. It looks really great! But the menu for firewood is wrong; saying you make 6-8 firewood from 2 logs.

I canīt build the "Thomson Trade Stone Road" on an existing dirt road like you can with a vanilla stone road.

PS: My husband is now at home, very weak, needing a lot of care. I will probably have much time to play Banished because I want to stay close to him. And my computer is next to the bedroom.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 17, 2019, 11:36:56 AM
I had a crash as I updated the small mine. I can vaguely remember that I had something like that before in a Nordic game. The crash comes when you click on the building site, that is supposed to be upgraded.

Edit: Good news! It took a long time but the mine was upgraded and it seems to work just fine. (only using 1 lumber and 1 lamp oil!;) ) You just have to avoid clicking at the building site after youīve started the upgrade.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Artfactial on July 17, 2019, 01:10:54 PM
The timber mill has a fantastic "animation" of the wheel. It looks really great! But the menu for firewood is wrong; saying you make 6-8 firewood from 2 logs.
What is this magic?:O We have animated buildings now in Banished?

Best wishes for a swift recovery of your husband!
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 17, 2019, 01:25:48 PM
Itīs not really animated, it just looks like water is streaming around the wheel in a quite spectacular way.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 18, 2019, 12:52:27 AM
I have no new bugs to report.:)

My town converts from a farming society to an iron industry town. I stopped to build new farms and orchards as I reached about 100 inhabitants and now Iīm slowly demolishing them. My goal is to have no farming and no animal herds. I will also try not to import any raw materials for the iron industry (maybe except for some logs, we will see if thereīs space enough to produce enough logs, but at least thatīs my ambition).

I want to tell a bit about an experiment I made, or not quite an experiment, I just took some notes and used a tiny bit of math. I wanted to see if it would be possible to import all (not profitable) raw materials for iron production. I have 2 small raw material Thomson Trade ports. I order iron ore and coal. My population is a little less than 300. Last year I could have bought 660 iron ore and 1100 coal. My export industry produced about 1100 hardened tools. For this, we need 550 iron and 1100 coke, for the iron we need 550 iron ore and 275 coke. To produce 1375 coke you need 325 coal. Now I also need iron for other things, so I actually produced 700 iron.

I donīt fully support my settlement by exporting tools yet; itīs still a little less than 50% but at least for a settlement of this size; it could be possible to import all raw materials you need with a few small trading ports. I donīt think this is what you really want with this mod @Discrepancy.

About the mines; you might have made them a little too productive. I have built new mines, upgraded and changes production, so Iīm not so sure how many Iīve used on average but I can say for sure, that I need far fewer miners than blacksmiths. (and I didnīt buy one piece of the offered iron ore and coal)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 18, 2019, 01:43:05 AM
Quote
It must be as @Tom Sawyer says with the inputs playing havoc with the workers, as it works fine on buildings that don't have an input (my beehives, original tunnel mine, etc).
I think so too because the flax weaver works similarly. It still produces but the behaviour of the worker is very odd. The weaver takes 100 flax, produce a little something; say 4 linen from 20 flax and then carries the rest 80 flax back to the barn, gets new 100 flax, produces something, carries the rest back and so on. Opposit to the Workerīs Construction they do produce something each time but only once. If you locate barn and flax and weaver close to each other, the site produces OK but I suppose it would be better if only one thing was produced.

I think I might have to look at a different way for these resources. The flax is difficult unless I get rid of the linseed and just allow linseed oil from flax itself? maybe.
The Workers Construction Yard will probably be changed to select resources.

I agree the mines are producing a bit too fast now, I'm still comparing numbers on paper to see how I want to start adjusting all the numbers again. I will be more than likely increasing the create count, and would have to slow the mines down again.

A decrease in the amount of product available at the merchants will need to be done if you are able to import that much ;)
Like I said in my other post, I do still want it to be a little profitable if you wished to import ores, but not enough to sustain a town.

Ahh, ok well that explains the broken-bone epidemic :) at least I now know the transmission variables do work.
I will see if I can make a change to the event text to re-write it differently.

Yes you spotted a mistake in the quarry... I was actually originally seeing about making it produce randomly the same product stone, with only one having the cost of the stonemason tool, I now remember it didn't work properly, which further throws weight behind the random resource production from inputs does not work as we would like.
So if you actually clicked the second entry, your quarry would mine stone with no input, and gain the other benefits (lower work death risk and less use of normal tools).

Unfortunately there is a lot of wrong texts right now. I will have to go back through them all once I have the numbers sorted, I've already done it a few times with this mod. It is a lot of work with all the tooltips, that is why I didn't update the Info panels either, as there are a lot of hover-over tooltips that give break-downs of profits etc.

I've tried many things with the particle effects. I was hoping we could turn them sideways, instead of just being flat, but I cannot make it work, I had made a pretty good spinning water wheel texture, lol if i turn the mill sideways it works. Come to think of it, I think they did have and experimented with horizontal water wheels.

The problem is that the standard 2 roads use a low numbered (stone=0, dirt-1) what is called a uchar _index. The lower number will always build over the higher number. And 2 roads cannot be the same without it causing all the other placed roads with the same number from automatically changing to the other road texture.
So my numbers are all a lot higher numbers. I would need to change the vanilla numbers to something else.

Another bug you found with the mine, thanks. I once again did not have a large enough build UI.


Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 18, 2019, 07:57:37 AM
There is another weird bug in the mines. I had a crash; several times directly after I started the autosave. Too fast to look around and see what was happening. To find out the reason, I stopped the speed, unassigned all workers and started the speed. No crash. I assigned different professions 1 by 1. Everything went well until I assigned the miners. The crash came immediately. I have 3 mines running: 1 improved mine for coal, 2 of the smaller industrial mines for the hill; one for iron ore and one for copper ore. After the next restart, I opened the "Improved mine"; no crash but after I opened the industrial mine for iron ore as well, the crash came, this time not at once but after a short while. Now I have started the industrial mine for copper, no crash and after that, I also started the iron mine. This time it runs without crashes at least for some time.

I have no idea what this is.

Edit; it didnīt run for long; the crash came less than a minute after I went back to it after I wrote this post.

Edit2; I think I got it; the crash comes if you use 4 miners in that mine. I ran one mine with 2 miners for a long time without problems, the crash came as I restarted the second mine with 4 miners. When I reduced the number of miners to 2, Iīve run it for some time without a crash.

Edit3; No itīs not (only) the 4 miners, now I had a crash with only 2 miners in each mine.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: RedKetchup on July 18, 2019, 11:26:41 AM
for info in RKEC my stone roads are 70-74 uchars and my wood road is 995 uchar. i, of course, replaced the vanilla stone road to 990 and dirt vanilla to 999 uchar
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 02:41:19 AM
@Nilla , I'm not able to replicate that crash.

You do mean the Thadd Surrel Industry Mine? (as pictured)

Perhaps if you could give me your mod list and order, as well as map seed and staring conditions. Thanks.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 19, 2019, 05:12:25 AM
Yes, I think itīs that mine but of course, it may be something else. But I had no crash as I turned it off. I can add a save if it helps.

MODS:(short, all except one yours and I think they are in your recommended order)
Townhouses
Ind.Mining
Thoms.Trade
MeadBrew
AleHouse
TimberMill
FuelMarket
FulbWrightHuses
FBSchool
DSJaB Patch to v2.1.1
Jetty&B
WagonWedor
Chapel of StE (Why can you only build one?)
Kid Tiny v 1.3

map:185063370 valleys medium, fair, disasters on, medium start

Edit; the second save might be more interesting but the crash comes very fast, you must stop the speed at once.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 05:16:02 AM
Quote
Chapel of StE (Why can you only build one?)

lol, I can't remember that being the name.

:)

thanks, I will check the save now.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 06:03:09 AM
It is something to do with the mine in the middle of the map that you have disabled.

I tried it 3 times with that mine and crashed every-time, yet the other mine near the river will not trigger a crash at all, increased the miners to 34 and ran that for 3 years and it never crashed.

It is very strange.

There are 2 possibilities that I have just thought of...

(edit)
1 - is that the path between the mine and the storage on the east is a very popular path, constant traffic. It is hard to tell exactly as the game crashed straight to desktop, but it looked like it crashes when a line of ore is built up....

but this led me into the 2nd possibility... and I think I might have it. let me just check again.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 06:18:20 AM
Ok, it is the tree.

This mine used to have a wider footprint than it does now, there is a create point outside the boundary of the mine, under the chute to the left, it tries to spawn ore where there is the big oak tree. If you cut it down, it will not crash :)

Sorry about that.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 06:27:42 AM
I managed to pause the game quick enough on load of that earlier save. and it is the same problem of that tree.

In the attached picture I have highlighted the problem spawn point which is right where the oak tree was before I chopped it. The game is still running now in the background, hasn't crashed again.

...
Also, you have made a very nice town. Prosperous :)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 19, 2019, 06:39:31 AM
This is indeed a weird bug and youīre a genius finding it! :)

Yes, youīre right, the town is prosperous but "messy"; a typical test everything, look at everything, donīt mind how it looks town.  :-\
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Discrepancy on July 19, 2019, 06:56:01 AM
Not messy, the layout works for a mining town :)

I hope to make it not as prosperous in the next update (probably not until next week sometime), I think I was a little generous with the change last update.

Thanks again for finding all these bugs.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
Post by: Nilla on July 22, 2019, 12:28:29 PM
I canīt get the silver mine to work properly. The miners are carrying lumber and lamp oil back and forth. And when I tried to upgrade it to see if the upgraded version works I had a crash as I clicked on the building site (similar to the small iron mine)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Discrepancy on July 25, 2019, 02:23:24 AM
updated to BETAv.03


There are two new buildings this update, though they both share a function, so essentially it is one and a half buildings. The Mining Overseer's Desk and the Mining Overseer's Office. The Desk simply displays the towns inventory, it is low cost to build at start of game and the information can be invaluable instead of clicking through countless stockpiles and barns. The Office is the full town hall statistics, including immigration which can occur at 0 population, though there are 3 required industry buildings to build for nomads.

Hopefully I've squashed all the bugs that were casing the crashes this time.

I made major changes in production numbers for the ore-to-iron/metal chains. The numbers are in the change log below.
I did not change the Silver values though, so this will eventually change which will impact, gold, coins etc.
Also, I have not adjusted the bloomery smelters construction costs (and UI texts) to account for the change in ore-metal production, these are right now the 'cheaty-way' of producing copper/iron. This will be changed in a future update when the production numbers are operating ok.

The poor performing Worker's Construction Yard now has a selection menu to choose production of resources.
The Flax Weaver has had a shuffle in code and production numbers and now produces better.... but not very consistent across multiple years.

The changes to the citizen are a now even higher in likelihood of them getting sick/disease etc at the start of game, in testing I was regularly getting after 10-18 months, though remember the diseases aren't anywhere near as deadly as standard game, unless a serious disease the citizens will get over them even without a doctor.
That being, the changes also included reducing the time a citizen has a disease, though the change is negligible and I don't think it has made a huge difference since last update.
Citizens will also require a few more different types of food for happiness. Health has been changed slightly closer to standard, though I'm really not sure how these are properly influenced anymore the more I try to understand it.

Anyway, enjoy. Hopefully bug free.

Sorry I don't think it is save compatible, at least it wasn't when I tried, but I also adjust the mod list.
But always better for a new game, and place this above my other mods (latest at the top).

Thanks to @Nilla for all the testing and invaluable feedback :)


 BETAv.03 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190725  |  .zip = 125mb (128,448kb)   .pkm = 211mb (216,689kb)
        - fixed issue of crash caused by Clarence Silver Mines.
        - fixed issue of crash caused by Thadd Surrel & family: Industry Mine.
        - fixed issue of crash caused by clicking on the build site of the Iron Ore Mine.
        - fixed issue of double entry of Stone in the Industry Quarry production menu.
        - fixed issue of coins having too large an icon in some UI panels.
        - Iron Fittings now correctly valued at 3, and create count at 5/8.
        - increased total production of Clay and Sand Digs for beta testing, these buildings will eventually be replaced.
        - increased the construction cost of the Open-Top Up-Draft Kiln.
        - increased work time and work required variables at all mines except silver mines.
        - increased value of Iron Ore to 3.
        - increased value of metals: Copper = 15, Iron = 18, Tin = 21, Bronze = 25.
        - increased the quantity of ores & fuel needed to make metals.
        - increased the value of tools: Copper Tool = 15, Iron Tool = 18, Steel Tool = 20, Hardened Tool = 22.
        - increased the value of the sharpened and oiled 'fine' versions of the tools, by 2 and 4 value added respectively.
        - reduced the work time of the Grindstone.
        - increased the value of Tools:Stonemason to 4.
        - reduced the create count of Bronze to 2/3, reduced the amount of fuel to smelter.
        - reduced the amount of Ores that will be offered by traders.
        - reduced the amount of Iron required to make an Anvil and Wagon Parts.
        - reduced the work time of the Industry Candle Maker.
        - reduced the work time of the Industry Oil Kiln.
        - changed production of Worker's Construction Yard for player to select product.
        - changes to production and speed of Flax Weaver.
        - increased the create count of Linseed to 21.
        - slightly improved the ability to place the Industry Quarry, and reduced the construction cost.
        - added Textile & Fabric storage to both Industry and Town barns (Thadd Surrel & Glass Maker storage).
        - added missing storage tab to the standard banished Herbalist.
        - changes to the production recipes at blacksmith's.
        - added option to make Tools:Hunter and Tools:Fisherman from Copper at blacksmiths.
        - various building text and tool-tip changes and fixes.
        - various text and number changes to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.
        - numerous changes to happiness, health and other citizen.rsc file variables.
        - added new building: Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Desk.
        - added new building: Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Office.


(https://i.imgur.com/1e58EN3.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/pGsMz5x.jpg)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on July 25, 2019, 06:31:54 AM
:) Looking forward to trying it.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 12:15:41 AM
I'm really enjoying DS Industry Mining @Discrepancy you've done a wonderful job with it.

There are a few things I like using from RKEC that Red does not have as standalone mods: Canals, his various food preservation units, his Orchard Lodges and some other stuff as well.

So I tried adding RKEC back into the mix but I am thinking that maybe DS Industry Mining needs to go above RKEC because the Limits window has changed considerably with RKEC on top and I am wondering if it would mess things up with DS Industry Mining?

And if I do need to put DS Industry Mining above RKEC then I assume I must also put BetterStockPiles and DSTimberMill above too since those need to be above DS Industry Mining?

Thank you.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 04:42:07 AM
Found a small bug; the price for iron (and I guess the other metals) are changed but not the price for tools.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 09:14:33 AM
Last night before bed I noticed that if RKEC is above all then RKEC alters the Limits window which may or may not affect DS Industry Mining et al.

This morning after placing BetterStockPiles>DSTimberMill>DSIndustryMining above RKEC all looked well at first and I was off to a beautiful start. It was when I built the vanilla Wood Cutter that I saw my first issue with this mod order. I needed the vanilla Wood Cutter to process RKEC's Fodder-Thatch into Firefood but that was not an option for the structure. It was an icon with no text label on it. I selected it anyhow since it was the only one available for choosing (which is not the case normally in RKEC) and with that icon with no text label selected the Wood Cutter immediately went to "Out of Materials" even though I had plenty of Logs and Fodder-Thatch. So it seems the Wood Cutter wasn't looking for those two items from my Stockpiles.

Bummer. :( RKEC with DS Industry Mining and all of it's DS friends would have been a beautiful marriage of mods!  I can go back to my previous ModMan profiles of RKEC and all of Discrepancy's mods which worked perfectly together but I'd have to leave out DS Industry Mining which I am really enjoying the changes to the game from.

My last option is to put RKEC back on top even though it alters the Limits window for DS Industry Mining and try a game that way and see what happens.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
I donīt understand you people; you Mark, @brads3 and others: why do you need everything at the same time? RKED is great, DS Industrial Mining is great but I donīt need them together. These mods are both strong enough to stand alone without any other major mods. Even if you might get it to work, you will lose the "feeling" of each mod if you mix them.

Sorry, I forgot what I wanted to say;

the silver mine still makes problems. People are just carrying lamp oil and timber back and forth without producing anything.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: brads3 on August 02, 2019, 10:28:49 AM
NILLA, i have explained why i add the mods i do. `1 reasonis to prove what can ve done and push the game cuase i know others will.this gives info to help solve issues other players may have. in MARKS case,the next step would be to add KID's FO NAT DIV version above the DS and RK. this should not alter any of the DS. Forest Outpost,DS,then RK. what this should do is give the RK wild animals and DS mining and lumber productions.
thatch-fodder becomes a fuel to most houses,DS has some that will not use the thatch.the thatch does not have to be bundled for the houses to burn it. there are other changes. the FO buildings require thatch as a build material so does the RK beekeeper,some pastures,and some vanilla re-textured RK buildings.the start wood houses and the start barn shuld require thatch.since thatch does die off after a few years, you may need the fodder hut to grow more thatch.

  depending on what all you want from the RK, this is the fastest and best option to solve the thatch not being burned. i havent loaded the new DS mods. i woud recommend running a debug test of the TH inventory for items missing.since the DS is overriding the thatch it might be wise to run a quick test of gatherer to see what else might be missing.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 10:44:48 AM
I donīt understand you people; you Mark, @brads3 and others: why do you need everything at the same time?
Hmmm. "You people" implies plural; plural begets differences. Should we all be clones of one another; that'd be boring no? You are absolutely right, these mods are definitely strong enough to stand on their own and I play them... on their own quite often.

... but I donīt need them together.
Then don't. But why so serious? are you judging how others play the game and the mod choices they choose?

You know some times, I like to dye my hair green and go crazy and try new things! Woohoo!   :P   I didn't realize I was the only one mixing mods.

... Oh wait!


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48440386102_e120526a8a.jpg)
P.S.: Sorry, but this was fair in my opinion.

               
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 11:40:15 AM
Donīt take everything so serious, Iīm not judging you or anyone else @MarkAnthony. You can mix what you like to mix, test what you like to test. But you must also expect some kind of problems when youīre mixing "too wild", especially major mods where the modders have their own ideas about the "classification" and use of different materials. And I know, @brads3 you like to push the game to see whatīs possible. Iīm even quite impressed by how youīre trying to make these "impossible" mixtures. Of course, youīll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that youīll also lose things. The mod on top will always "override" features from the mods below. Thatīs all I wanted to say; as it looks not clear and nice enough since you got offended @MarkAnthony. Iīm sorry about that.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: brads3 on August 02, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
there is always "give and take" to it for sure. the top mod does not always override eberything of the mod below it.only if that part of the coding was included with the mod above will it do that. and even then you can add to it in many cases. such as i can add a North od below RK and change the climate to the north but still have RED's wid animals skinned as KIDs bison.LOL
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 12:35:02 PM
I wasn't offended Nilla.

I play my DS-only games and I play my RKEC-only games and I had fantastic experiences playing my RKEC+DS games. I especially love the two together.

My question to Discrepancy about DS Industry Mining working with RKEC was just to continue that fantastic experience with Discrepancy's newest and greatest creation, DS Industry Mining. My previous RKEC+DS games did not include DS Industry Mining because it did not exist publicly at the time I started playing Banished.

I would love to include DS Industry Mining into my RKEC+DS games, but if that cannot ever happen that is okay for I can still go back to my DS-Only games to scratch that itch.

I'm handing back this thread to Discrepancy. Sorry it got derailed a bit in it's purpose.
               
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 12:39:58 PM
Iīm sorry too for hijacking the thread.

Again, I wanted to report a possible bug. The big mine you can build on the ground; Thadd Surrel and family 2 Industrial Mine produces far less than the first, you can build at the mountain; intention or bug?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 12:43:55 PM
I noticed that as well but I wrote it off to being the trade-off for being able to build the big mine wherever you wanted instead of having to do it at a hill/mountain side.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 01:00:25 PM
Yes, itīs possible, that itīs intentional but mine nr 2 is expensive to build and has a huge negative impact on happiness, so I find the difference a bit too large to be reasonable. Especially as the mine nr 1 doesnīt have a very large footprint.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Discrepancy on August 02, 2019, 05:55:09 PM
I'm really enjoying DS Industry Mining @Discrepancy you've done a wonderful job with it.
So I tried adding RKEC back into the mix but I am thinking that maybe DS Industry Mining needs to go above RKEC because the Limits window has changed considerably with RKEC on top and I am wondering if it would mess things up with DS Industry Mining?
And if I do need to put DS Industry Mining above RKEC then I assume I must also put BetterStockPiles and DSTimberMill above too since those need to be above DS Industry Mining?
Thanks, glad you are enjoying it.
At this stage yes you are going to run into a few problems whether you put it above or below. Both mods are modifying the start conditions and map spawns, my mod is altering many of the production chains and values to be different also. Though I did say quite a while ago I was going to make it compatible, I am not going to until I myself have made the mod I want to make. Though any compatible version I could release of this mod is likely to be heavily reduced as so much of the resource and production chains would not be worthwhile producing.

Found a small bug; the price for iron (and I guess the other metals) are changed but not the price for tools.
Thanks, not sure what happened there... I didn't make a copy of the last beta's sourcecode and have already altered them all again so not sure tbh if i missed this.

the silver mine still makes problems. People are just carrying lamp oil and timber back and forth without producing anything.
Thanks, I'll have a look again, though code all looks correct. Might be the work points.

... in MARKS case,the next step would be to add KID's FO NAT DIV version above the DS and RK. this should not alter any of the DS. Forest Outpost,DS,then RK. what this should do is give the RK wild animals and DS mining and lumber productions.
thatch-fodder becomes a fuel to most houses,DS has some that will not use the thatch.the thatch does not have to be bundled for the houses to burn it. there are other changes. the FO buildings require thatch as a build material so does the RK beekeeper,some pastures,and some vanilla re-textured RK buildings.the start wood houses and the start barn shuld require thatch.since thatch does die off after a few years, you may need the fodder hut to grow more thatch.
I don't think that that will work either. Too many changes from my mod.

You can mix what you like to mix, test what you like to test. But you must also expect some kind of problems when youīre mixing "too wild", especially major mods where the modders have their own ideas about the "classification" and use of different materials....
...Of course, youīll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that youīll also lose things. The mod on top will always "override" features from the mods below.
Nilla is correct.

My question to Discrepancy about DS Industry Mining working with RKEC was just to continue that fantastic experience with Discrepancy's newest and greatest creation, DS Industry Mining. My previous RKEC+DS games did not include DS Industry Mining because it did not exist publicly at the time I started playing Banished.
I would love to include DS Industry Mining into my RKEC+DS games, but if that cannot ever happen that is okay for I can still go back to my DS-Only games to scratch that itch.
Though you can by all means try the mod with others, you are not going to be able to get the full experience. The last update I started adjusting the economy even further from standard Banished, this is also taking it further away from RKEC, the next update will be even more so. Production chains in RKEC will possibly be broken, and likely to be a lot cheaper... remember I have an added cost to mining, it is more expensive to smelt copper/iron etc in my mod, stone mining has changed. In other words, too much has changed and is still changing while in beta for me to be able to make the mod work with another at this point of time :)

Again, I wanted to report a possible bug. The big mine you can build on the ground; Thadd Surrel and family 2 Industrial Mine produces far less than the first, you can build at the mountain; intention or bug?
Again another I cannot see why this is occurring, Thadd Surrel & family: 2nd Industry Mine has a workRequired of 21 and workTime of 3.8, whereas the Thadd Surrel & family: Industry Mine has a workRequired of 21 and workTime of 4.1. The 2nd Industry Mine should be quicker. Oh well, I'll re do the points and check. Thanks.




I was planning on releasing another version this weekend but might have to hold off a bit as I finalise the changes and make sure they are actually active and working as expected.
Tools and metals will be increased in value by 2-300%. Most production chains have had changes in the inputs/outputs. Fuel will be used more by citizens, and you will find it harder to keep up with fuel production, putting a larger demand on logs, hopefully this will get players to start using the coal-coke for a metal fuel.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: brads3 on August 02, 2019, 07:49:53 PM
DS can you add to the down load page a list of the flag limits and what items you have under them? that would be helpful to see what all is different betwen the mods.

map spawns are touchy. from my experience we can alter but not add to the minerals or stone,, same with the animals. we can in some cases add trees,plants,and foods.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Discrepancy on August 02, 2019, 11:46:20 PM
@brads3 , limits are still only the limits, they aren't going to make much difference, most of my limits will still work fine with other mods be it RKEC, Kids, the North, CC. It is more so the change in production and values of resources, and yes of course the map spawns, my map requires these, as does perhaps RK's.
I'll quote Nilla once more: "Of course, youīll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that youīll also lose things."

This is not a complete list.
(https://i.imgur.com/p4owHT2.jpg)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 03, 2019, 07:05:34 AM
I made some calculations yesterday that you might find interesting @Discrepancy. It's about iron production and how many workers are involved:

The logistic isn't perfect in my game. I also wanted as many as happy as possible so people don't live inside the black circles which means it's quite a distance between workplace and homes. So I guess, the production can be higher if you make it different.

A smelter makes an average of 75 iron. It's no big difference between the small blacksmith and the blast furnaces on land or on the shore. 10 blacksmiths make 750 iron worth 18= 13 500 trade units.
To produce 750 iron you need 750 coke and 1875 iron ore.
To produce 750 coke you need 177 coal and 1/3 worker.
To produce 177 coal you need 30 timber, 30 lamp oil and 1,3 miner.
To produce 1875 iron ore you need 264 timber, 264 lamp oil and 12 miners
To produce 264+30=294 timber you need 117 logs and 0,6 woodcutter
To produce 117 logs you need 1 forester
To produce 294 lamp oil you need 294 linseed and 37 firewood and 0,5 worker
For flax, linseed, firewood and logs, I estimate you'll need another 0,5 worker
26-27 persons are involved in direct production, it's about 500 profit for each. You will need a number of traders, vendors and labourers to carry all these material around, there are children, students and not producing professions to support. You need to produce building materials to expand, so this is not a very high total profit, especially compared to other easier chains like firewood, lumber, coke, lamp oil, ale.....

With the right value for tools, I hope you can increase the profit by processing iron one more step.

Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Discrepancy on August 05, 2019, 03:07:04 AM
I made some calculations yesterday that you might find interesting @Discrepancy. It's about iron production and how many workers are involved:

The logistic isn't perfect in my game. I also wanted as many as happy as possible so people don't live inside the black circles which means it's quite a distance between workplace and homes. So I guess, the production can be higher if you make it different.

A smelter makes an average of 75 iron. It's no big difference between the small blacksmith and the blast furnaces on land or on the shore. 10 blacksmiths make 750 iron worth 18= 13 500 trade units.
To produce 750 iron you need 750 coke and 1875 iron ore.
To produce 750 coke you need 177 coal and 1/3 worker.
To produce 177 coal you need 30 timber, 30 lamp oil and 1,3 miner.
To produce 1875 iron ore you need 264 timber, 264 lamp oil and 12 miners
To produce 264+30=294 timber you need 117 logs and 0,6 woodcutter
To produce 117 logs you need 1 forester
To produce 294 lamp oil you need 294 linseed and 37 firewood and 0,5 worker
For flax, linseed, firewood and logs, I estimate you'll need another 0,5 worker
26-27 persons are involved in direct production, it's about 500 profit for each. You will need a number of traders, vendors and labourers to carry all these material around, there are children, students and not producing professions to support. You need to produce building materials to expand, so this is not a very high total profit, especially compared to other easier chains like firewood, lumber, coke, lamp oil, ale.....

With the right value for tools, I hope you can increase the profit by processing iron one more step.

Thank you @Nilla they are indeed very interesting and helpful.

My own private testing of the next beta version has not been going very well. I have made it too difficult, and successfully managing early game is proving very hard for me. But, it will still be quite a bit more difficult for players as I will still be increasing the cost of producing charcoal/coke, also the cost of smelting and (slightly) increasing the fuel usage by citizens. Though to compensate, the value of many of the industry produced goods will be significantly increased, in some cases more than 500%. So yes higher profits will be attained from smelting and making tools. This will also make it very expensive to buy these items, as the products you list have not been increased in value, but some have been decreased (apart from ale).

I was going to expand the gold part of the mod with the activation of the placer mines and a few other buildings which have been sitting dormant, but will leave this to the following update as their additions are not helping me get the right balance for the mod.

If I can get a good balance, I will hopefully release v.04 in the next day or so.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.03
Post by: Nilla on August 05, 2019, 03:51:10 AM
Iīm looking forward to trying the next version. :)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.04
Post by: Discrepancy on August 11, 2019, 12:27:41 AM
updated to BETAv.04


BETAv.04 sees large changes in the economy, a few small fixes and other tweaks. Smelting is now a lot more profitable, same as tool manufacturing. Most introduced production chains have had changes in their value, create and inputs, see change log (https://ds-mods.net/changelog/ds-industry-mining/) for all the details.

The charcoal piles and the bloomery smelters have been altered to match their production changes. This included the renaming/deleting/adding of different files so is not save-game compatible.

Citizens will now use 105% of the fuel they would normally use in standard banished, this, with the increase in cost to make charcoal or firewood will require you to put a lot more resources into this production than you would have previously.

There is also an increased penalty to work without a tool. And with the high construction costs of many of the industry buildings, charcoal piles and bloomery smelters, it is important to start your production of tools as soon as possible.

The Clarence Silver Mine was not correctly operating in the last update. A fix has been put in place and this has required the removal of the chance to extract Gold from the mine. The introduction of more Gold production will be in the next update.



BETAv.04 - beta update: fixes and minor update   -- 20190811  |  .zip = 125mb (128,510kb)   .pkm = 211mb (216,836kb)
        - fixed issue of Clarence Silver Mine not storing/using input resources correctly, this has meant the removal of the chance of mining Gold.
        - fixed incorrect limit spinner in Clay & Sand Quarries.
        - fixed incorrect work button texts at Worker's Construction Yard.
        - fixed/changed the disease/illness notifications to better match new illnesses.
        - increased the work time of the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - increased the work time of making oil at the Thadd Surrel & family: Press Shed & Oil Kiln.
        - increased the storage capacity of the Smith's Hearth.
        - increased the work time and work required of the standard banished CutterYard.
        - increased the work time of the standard IronMine.
        - increased spawn chance at map load of stone resource.
        - increased the production speed of the blacksmiths: Smith's Hearth, Anvil Workshop, Blacksmith, Thadd Surrel & family: Blacksmith.
        - adjusted the trade boat deliveries at the standard TradingPost.
        - adjusted the map sand resource to not spawn into too deep water.
        - adjusted the size (made smaller) of the UI panel for the Thadd Surrel & family: Mining Overseer's Office.
        - adjusted the following resources value & create variables:
                 Beeswax value=2, Bricks create=5/8, Bronze value=38, Candles value=5, Charcoal value=7 create 34/55, Clay value=3 create=3,
                 Coal value=3, Coke value=8 create 34/55, Copper value=30, Copper Ore value=4, Copper Tools value=24/*26/*^28, Flax value=1,
                 Glass value=15 create=2/3, Hardened Tools value=36/*38/*^40, Iron value=34, Iron Fittings value=5 create=8-10, Iron Ore value=4,
                 Iron Tools value=28/*30/*^32, Lamp Oil create=6/7, Lime value=5 create=5/8, Linseed create=18, Logs create=4, Pottery value=8 create 3/4,
                 Roof-tiles create=5/8, Sand value=2 create=5, Steel Tools value=32/*34/*^36, Stone value=12 create=2-3, Tallow value=2 create=3/4,
                 Tin value=36, Tin Ore value=5, Tools:Fisherman value=6, Tools:Hunter value=6, Tools:Stonemason value=8,
        - adjusted the following resource production chain inputs:
                 Anvil 1 iron + 1 log + 1 metal-fuel, Bricks/Roof-tiles 8 clay + 1 metal-fuel, or 5 sand + 2 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Charcoal 21 logs, Coke 21 coal, Copper Tool from ore 8 copper ore + 1 log + 5 firewood,
                 Glass 15 sand + 1 metal-fuel, or 10 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel, Glassware 18 sand + 1 metal-fuel, or 15 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Lime 1 stone + 5 coal or firewood, Pottery 4 clay + 1 metal-fuel, or 2 sand + 1 lime + 1 metal-fuel,
                 Wagon Parts 3 log + 1 iron, or 3 log + 3 iron fittings, or 2 timber + 3 iron fittings,
        - altered the Charcoal Piles to match change in production, now made from piles of: 42, 84, 105, 147, 210 or 315 logs.
        - altered the Bloomery Smelters to match change in production, from ore/charcoal/clay quantities: 25/10/13, 40/16/13, 55/22/13, 65/26/13, 75/30/13, 90/36/13, 105/42/13.
        - copper and iron Bloomery Smelters are now separated into their own individual menu's.
        - altered the DS toolbar menu icon for Firewood & Charcoal production.
        - removed Ores & Minerals from storage at Industry Barns (Thadd Surrel and Glass Maker).
        - improvements to the Worker's Construction Yard building model.
        - Health/Happiness and citizen changes:
                 - increased the chance of disease/illness in the unhealthy, and from nomads with lower populations.
                 - changed the duration of disease/illness to approx. 1-3 weeks.
                 - increased the fuel usage of citizens (105% of normal).
                 - increased the penalty for working without a tool.
               -- reduced the time disease/illness is present when trader visiting at standard TradingPost & Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant.
               -- increased the chance of disease at the standard TradingPost.
               -- reduced the chance of disease at the Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant.
        - added more illnesses and diseases: Biliousness, Diarrhea, Endocarditis, Scrofula.
        - added saw audio effect to the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - added water spray particle effect to the Thadd Surrel & family: Timber-mill.
        - various text and tooltip additions and changes to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.04
Post by: Nilla on August 11, 2019, 02:45:03 AM
Looks interesting. :)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.04
Post by: pappa on August 11, 2019, 08:53:17 AM
Looks promising your mods are very unique.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.04
Post by: Discrepancy on August 27, 2019, 04:34:10 AM
I'm into the last stages of testing the new beta, once again it has been a lot of production and number changes, but this update will see the better inclusion of Tin and Bronze, placer mining and more monuments. With these new buildings and additions it will push the file size up to 280mb.

So far there haven't been any reported bugs or faults with the last version apart from some wrong texts in tooltips.
If you know of any issues in BETAv.04 that need addressing let me know so I can include fixes before upload in next few days.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on August 29, 2019, 03:01:08 AM
updated to BETAv.05

(https://i.imgur.com/JLlHivf.jpg)

In this new update to DS Industry Mining, I have introduced Tin Ore onto the map, Bronze Bloomery Smelters and Bronze Tools make it a more attractive early game tool until you get your iron mines and smelters operating.

Once again there have been numerous changes in production and the economy, see change log for all the details. Overall it will be a harder experience for some players than the last version.

There is also the new additions of a single Wood Chopper for firewood, a Placer Mine for Tin Ore and Gold mining along waterways. Also a Tinsmith to make Tinware which, along with Pottery or Glassware is now required for the production of all the oils.

I’ve added 5 new start conditions giving different challenges, and some a jump-start into the industries. Two more monuments to give Spiritual and Safety happiness to your citizens.

Change Log:
        - replaced some of the worker professions with the following:
                - Char-burners are now employed at Charcoal Piles & Coke Ovens.
                - Lime-burners are now employed at the Lime ovens.
                - Potters are now employed at the Pottery kilns.
        - increased the spawn chance of Copper Ore at map load, further reduced Iron Ore.
        - adjusted the map trees; maturity is now 4 years and reseeding can occur after 2yrs (was 3.3yrs maturity, reseeding at 3yrs),
                         seed distance and spawn chance has been increased, and the maximum growth has been increased for longer living trees.
        - further adjusted the map sand resource to not spawn into too deep water.
        - Health/Happiness and citizen changes:
                - further reduced the time a citizen is immune to a disease after recovering.
                - further increased the fuel usage of citizens (110% of normal).
                - increased the detraction radius of the Smith's Hearth.
        - reduced create count of Lamp Oil, now 5-6. value to a variable of 2-4.
        - increased production input of Candles, now requires 5 Beeswax or Tallow.
        - altered production input of Lamp Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery.
        - altered production input of Seed Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery.
        - altered production input of Linseed Oil to now also require Glassware, Tinware or Pottery, removed firewood requirement.
        - reduced create count of Coal, now 4-5.
        - reduced create count of Copper, Iron and Tin Ores, now 3-5. Altered weights of ores.
        - reduced create count of Tallow, now 2-3.
        - reduced the amount of Tallow dropped at death by wild deer, and cows.
        - reduced create count of Timber, now 3-4.
        - reduced create count of Coke, now 21-34 from 21 Coal, reduced storage weight to 3.
        - reduced the value of: Copper Tools 18/*20/*^22, Iron Tools 24/*26/*^28, Steel Tools 30/*32/*^34.
        - reduced the durability of Copper Tools, 75/*100/*^125.
        - reduced the value of Pottery to 6.
        - altered production input of Tools:Fisherman made with copper, now requires 3 logs.
        - altered production input of Tools:Hunter, no copper, now requires bronze instead and 3 logs.
        - reduced the amount brought to trader of: Almonds, Beeswax, Flax, Hazelnuts, Lamp Oil, Lime, Linseed, Pistachio, Seed Oil, Stone.
        - increased the amount brought to trader of all the coins: Farthing, Halfpence, Silver Groat, Quarter Noble, Half Noble, Noble.
        - altered production input of Farthing coin, now 1 Copper.
        - altered production input of Quarter Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 2 Copper.
        - altered production input of Half Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 2 Bronze.
        - altered production input of Noble coin, now 1 Gold + 1 Bronze.
        - reduced the create count of the Halfpence coin to 13, removed the inclusion of Copper in their production.
        - increased the production time at the Coke ovens.
        - increased the production time and work required at the Lime ovens.
        - increased the production time of the Smith's Hearth and the Anvil Workshop.
        - increased the production time of the Thadd Surrel & family: Flax Weaver.
        - reduced the production time of the Water-powered Blast Furnace and the Thadd Surrel & family: Blast Furnace.
        - removed the ability to forge Copper and Iron at the Smith's Hearth and Blacksmith.
        - improvements to the button sprites for collection of ores, sand and clay.
        - improvements to the models of the Sand and Clay deposits on the map.
        - replaced the Firewood, Iron, Log and Stone resource models with the BetterStockPiles models.
        - increased storage capacity of the Assayers Office, increased worker count to 2.
        - altered the Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant. Now known as the goods buyer, boats will buy all resources with payment of coins, gold & silver.
        - added Thadd Surrel & family: Trade Merchant, purchase office building, where you can trade for goods with your coins, gold & silver.
        - added Assayers Coin, Gold & Silver Storage add-on building.
        - added uncovered version of Thadd Surrel & family: Well.
        - added Tin Ore deposits to the map, and collection menu button.
        - added a Placer Mine building for Tin Ore and Gold mining along waterways.
        - added Thadd Surrel & family: Tinsmith building.
        - added Tinware resource, crafted goods & utensil limit.
        - added Flax to the list of crops that you can start a game with.
        - added five new start conditions based upon the new industries and buildings.
        - added three more Storage Yard options: Iron & Metals, Building Materials & Logs, Fuels: Household.
        - added Bronze Bloomery Smelters.
        - added Bronze Tools, value of 20/*22/*^24, durability 90/*115/*^140.
        - added Wood Chopper, 2x2 single woodcutter, firewood from logs or timber.
        - added the Monument of Thor (based on Eyrarland statue), giving spiritual and safety happiness.
        - added the Monument of Vulcan, giving spiritual and safety happiness.
        - various menu text and tooltip changes, fixes and additions.
        - various changes and additions to the DS Info/knowledge-base panels.

Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: taniu on August 29, 2019, 03:23:43 AM
@Discrepancy ;D ;D ;D
thank you very much for the update - Beta 5. I have a question how this mods - will it work with mods RK Rise of the Pharaoh? or with RK Editor Choice? Cordial greetings
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on August 29, 2019, 03:31:13 AM
To be honest I'm not really sure. They have a few differences in the limits and perhaps even the resource file names, there is big differences in values and production but most elements may still work. best way would be to try it ;)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: taniu on August 29, 2019, 03:56:47 AM
@Discrepancy :D You are right - this is an "industrial" mod - I will test it in this respect - but I was thinking about exchanging goods with Egypt  :P :-[- maybe you will add something that will allow this exchange - the future? - what do you think - I like fashions that complement each other to some extent. Greetings
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 29, 2019, 07:54:44 AM
I must say you are doing some really great work with DS Industry Mining @Discrepancy .

Are you still suggesting the use of all your other mods (except for Blast Furnace) along with BETAv.05 for testing purposes or is there a different subset you would prefer for us to use?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on August 29, 2019, 07:57:59 AM
@taniu  thank you and NILLA for all your testing. unless someone finds an issue, i think my next map will be an industrial city with the RK EC and DS mods. 
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on August 29, 2019, 08:45:32 AM
Good morning Brad.

I did that RKEC & DS combo with DS Industry Mining v.03. I had to put DSIM above RKEC because DSIM changes Limits so much. And also at that time, DS Timber Mill needed to be above DSIM so that's why you see DS Timber Mill above RKEC also. At the time of August 01, 2019 this ModMan image below shows my setup. Things have changed since then of course, so the mod order would have to be different now. The image below also didn't include DS Log Cabins which didn't exist at the time.

EDIT: Looking at this older image, I no longer use that Tombstone mod, it doesn't work or at least I could never get it to work.  It was supposed to allow you to use the Remove Resources tool to remove tombstones if you had to delete a cemetery.

I also would advise against using the DSCharcoalPatch. It was a patch to change Charcoal's flag to an Industrial Fuel. I found it harder trying to find something that would store the Charcoal after that point and RKEC's Blacksmith refused to use the Charcoal.  I guess this patch was more for people who used CC which I never do. The reason I wanted to use the charcoal patch is I wanted my charcoal and coal stored in the same place. I don't recall if that ever worked out the way I had hoped.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on August 29, 2019, 09:23:57 AM
based on what i see of the limit flagsthey are mostly the same. the charcoal as you said is different. some precious items are different also.glass i believe is construction in RK or raw material so that will be different.DS doesnt have fabrics,so they will stay at custom 2.

      now to work around all that,you use the same mod to produce the items needed so if you need glass for RK windows, you use the RK glass maker. i will probably use the my precious mod and therefore swap the precious back to textile limit.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Nilla on August 30, 2019, 01:40:01 AM
Again; thanks for all the work. The changes look interesting. I will try it as soon as I come to play a bit of Banished. Something called "life" is a bit stressful at the moment but I hope it will calm down soon.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Artfactial on August 30, 2019, 10:24:22 AM
I echo that. This gem keeps on shining brighter, I hope to dive in when I return for more Banished.:)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 02, 2019, 12:23:49 PM
Just started a new game with DS Industry Mining Beta v.05 and all your other mods except for DS Blast Furnace and Christmas Tree.

I just wanted to let you know of a text mistake. On the Game Settings window your text description for the "Hard" start says that it includes some Firewood. It doesn't, and it shouldn't because they don't have any homes to begin with.

You never did answer my previous question up above so maybe you just missed it. I am still curious as to which of your mods you think we should be testing this with. I don't know if maybe there are some that you don't feel are meshing in very well anymore.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on September 03, 2019, 03:10:03 AM
Hello @MarkAnthony , thanks, and sorry I did miss the last question you asked.

But first, the mistake is not a mistake, but is present in the vanilla game, Hard start does begin with a count of 100 firewood in the cart. I made no changes to the standard Easy, Medium or Hard games apart from the spawning of ores on map, and flax added to list of crops.

To be honest I don't really have a list of what mods you should be playing with DS Industry Mining (DSIM), because you can of course play it by it self. My own tests are purely with this mod only, as I want to get the production in a stable and hopefully balanced state. I will then incorporate the resource and production changes among all of my other mods. Though my other mods work, I have not made all these changes, so quite often many of my other buildings will be over or under powered because of this. Behind the scenes I am actually working on a CelticVillage update that will tie into the mining industry in DSIM but from a very early age.

But what meshes with this mod? hopefully everything will eventually, but for now my latest mods mostly. TownHouses and LogHomes are the best as they utilize the new resources.

:) good luck with your game, and I hope to hear some feedback regarding difficulty and balance. After a couple more planned updates of major additions, I hope to get a stable version released. After which I will bulk update many of my mods that I have waiting for the new production numbers. I've decided to go down this route, rather than constantly updating these mods to suit each DSIM version.


Thanks for all of your thorough and informative testing @Nilla , I hope the stresses do calm down for you. Your testing and production number reports have been instrumental in making this mod work.

Thanks @Artfactial and @taniu :)

@brads3 , I would be very interested if you do start a game with my mod :) I would be honored. You might like all the railway pieces, matches well with RK's Choo Choo (something I do plan on adding support and changes to).
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on September 03, 2019, 06:35:35 AM
well,i started on it. in the process of setting up files into the Windata folder something went wrong. i broke my game. it will take a few days to fix it.

     i did load the industrial mod with some others and was able to open it and see the info menus and icons. i noticed you had a lot of track pieces. i noticed the resources are different. lots of clay. i think the factory buildings fit with the colonial era.

     my pet peeve with the game is how LUKE set the start coding.we can add gathering plants and trees from several mods, but can't do that with animals,grass,or rocks.  the game limits what we can do.i was debating whcih way i wanted the start when i noticed the game was broken. soon as i try to play it, it crashes.it isnt your mod crashing. something went wrong transfering files.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 03, 2019, 06:25:23 PM
Hmmph!  Beta v.05 doesn't seem to like me much. That's two games in a row now where I get to about the same point in the game and suffer a mass die-off due to starvation. I play the game at 2x speed so time-wise this took a few hours each game. I forget what year last night's game died at somewhere between year 7 and year 9 maybe; today's game died at year 7.

Both games I started off with the Industry: Ore-Smelters (Hard) start so that means no crops, orchards, or pastures. Both games I started with eight adults so not a whole lot of workers to spread around. One becomes a Teacher, one a Gatherer (using a basket), one a Fisherman (using a pole), and two for hunting; one with a tool and one from a cabin. That's five right there: one educator and four foodies. One is a Builder to erect everything, one Laborer to fetch all the stuff, and one floater that switches between a crap-ton of jobs to get stuff processed: tools, building materials, firewood and so on.

I'll tell you one thing though, that single Fisherman sucks big time; I won't use him again. Two beta v.05 games in a row and he barely caught a thing, some months he would catch nothing. I had a year result of 22 a few times and he was in a prime spot, or what I think is an ideal spot... a piece of pointy land with 180° water access! ROFL sometimes the idiot fished backwards onto the land but actually caught something haha! Trick shot or not, I'm not bothering with him anymore. The hunter cabin is basically what kept everyone alive all those years and the Gatherer... meh... using a basket doesn't get much but it supplemented things.

Anyways, it's always about year 7-ish or thereabouts that I can finally get a DS Thompson Seed Trader built but well... I ain't got squat to sell! I steal a little here and there when I can to put a little into the trading post to barter with but it's never enough. Last night's game I actually had enough to almost buy two 2,500tv seeds; when he finally came he brought me two orchard seeds when I had my heart set on crop seeds. I turned him away thinking he'd be back the next year with crop seeds. I didn't see him again for 15 months - it was too late then. Today's game I had the Seed Trader built but almost next to nothing to sell. Even if he came, I wouldn't have had nearly enough to buy anything.

... and somewhere 'round this point die, die, die, die!  LOL *sighs   :(

Oh well, I'll try again.

EDIT For typos and to add: When my population is only in the 20-ish ballpark, I think a die off of 8-12 people is considered a "mass die-off" but that's just me. I just get frustrated at this point and start a new game.

 Today's game I also had an early child-bearing death so that didn't help. Last night's game I also had an early death due to starvation. It was that idiot Fisherman... yeah I had an idiot fisherman yesterday too!  :P Anyhow, that one was on me; The solo fisherman has three? F-key variants for height I guess. Apparently I picked the wrong one. I honestly don't see much difference in height, mostly I just see a slight rotation. So the option I picked last night had the thingy underwater and well, she fished underwater too! I guess she got stuck down there hence the starvation death.

Oh, this screenshot shows that fishing spot in the top left corner. He had a good spot I think but apparently he likes to fish without bait! Pfft... he probably only caught the 22 fish he did because he probably had a whole mess of fishing line all tangled up in the water.   ;)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Nilla on September 04, 2019, 01:13:33 AM
I havenīt used these Small Town tool fisher/gatherer/hunters for some time so I canīt say anything to the output from them in this combination. When Iīve tested the DSInd, I've only produced vanilla fish and forest food. But I donīt see any store close to that fisher, seems like he needs to walk a long way to put the few fishes he catches somewhere. I donīt think itīs the only explanation for only 22 fish but it doesnīt make things better.

The start in industrial mining is indeed hard when you have no crops. Do you like the struggle? I do!

I have started a new game, too. Even if I have decided to restart it, I will write a little about it later. The start is indeed interesting.

Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 04, 2019, 07:02:22 AM
But I donīt see any store close to that fisher, seems like he needs to walk a long way to put the few fishes he catches somewhere.
Crates and barrels about a 1/4-1/2 inch away in the screenshot, 1200-1600 storage roughly.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 04, 2019, 06:06:38 PM
I got a question for you @Nilla / @Discrepancy ,

Normally my games are trade-free, I like to try and make them self-supporting; the exception would be when I need to buy seeds and livestock. I never got to the point of advancing far enough in a DSIM game to ever build a Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Goods Buyer or the Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Purchase Office. Am I understanding this correctly?

Is this all correct? I know you're a trade-gamer Nilla and I'm pretty sure I also read you saying you've used the DSIM traders already that's why I am asking for your clarification please, and thank you.

Off-topic: In my game last night Discrepancy the one where my village died at year 7, I noticed something about the 25 Copper Bloomery Smelter. It says, "approximately 10 Copper" will be the output. Is it possible to get a measly 2? I mean, I know it is... that's what I got but was it supposed to be just a random number on how many you get and I just had bad RNG or what factors into it?

I'll let you know that even with 3 food types and a well and an herbalist my village happiness is a paltry 2.5 stars and their health is a flat out zero hearts for almost the entire game of 7 to 9 years! Heck, within the first few ticks of the clock, right after starting the game my health immediately drops to 3? I think it was and then not even a month after that they're down to 1 then a month after that... zilch!   ??? My reason for mentioning this is because that was their collective status at the time the bloomery was in operation, zero hearts and 2.5 stars.

Anyhow, about that 25 Copper Bloomery Smelter result of 2 - I do know the person had Steel Tools, so there's that!  :P   (What, no Copper for "brownie points"? hehe) But with a result of 2 Copper for 25 Copper Ore and 10 Charcoal and 13 Clay I felt I got ripped off getting only 2 Copper!   :(    Especially at the start of the game when you barely have anything but your sweaty brow and sore back and a few odds and ends here and there.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 04, 2019, 07:42:05 PM
Sorry Discrepancy. I wrote about that Fisherman yesterday and today I realized it wasn't even part of DS Industry Mining, I forgot it was part of another mod of yours.

Today's game only has DS Industry Mining and nothing else that interferes with that mod, such as no extra markets, no extra traders, no extra storage, no extra town services (schools etc), and no extra food or resource production (wood/timber/metal producers and so forth). That means I am also having to do without DS Thompson Trade Merchants and DS Jetty & Bridges!

Well... as far as food production goes I only added support mods for food preservation if needed such as your Bryce's Butcher, your Roasted Nuts, Tom's Campfire and Smokehouse, and Kid's Market Food (BBQ, Soups etc). I say "if needed" because my last two games had food issues so I will build them and only use them if I see a run on the bank food reserves!

Besides the food preservatives I added (catch that pun?  ;D )  I did add your bridges and tunnels and roads mods, and the mead and ale house mods too; still never built one of those yet, or apiaries! I plan to in this game!

Don't mind @kid1293 's Tiny mod, he always passes out the test answers before class (Full Town Hall stats)! Gotta have that cheat-sheet, you understand right?  ::) :P

Here's my ModMan profile below of my current game.

 
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on September 05, 2019, 01:14:52 AM
That fishing spot is from DDSV: Production, and yes it might be too under-powered. Thanks.

  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Goods Buyer - they will buy anything you have to sell and only pay you in coins, they don't actually have anything you can buy from them?
  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Purchase Office - is a trader who will sell you a variety of things in exchange for coin payment only and they do not sell any Livestock?
  • If I am playing only DS Industry Mining + Vanilla then I need to use the Vanilla Trade Post to buy my Livestock from them?
Is this all correct?
Correct to all points. Next update will see an update to the Purchase Office to allow purchase of Livestock.

The 25 copper ore + 10 charcoal + 13 clay Bloomery should of produced 5-10 Copper depending on education level. Are you sure you let the building fully operate and expire before demolition?

I do understand your concerns regarding not being able to achieve many things in a short time at the beginning, but this is in a way a planned element of this mod. I expect new players to the mod to not start achieving a fully operating stable town industry until the 2-3rd generation.

I myself also fail in some of my tests. The on surface map ore and stone resources are finite and if you are not careful you can easily exhaust them and not be ready for mining. Getting a small tool industry operating is essential, limit the amount of buildings you build that require iron, and also limit your population growth by not building too many houses at a time and also delaying couples to have children (and number of children) by keeping them at their parents houses longer. Concentrate on food, forestry, and bronze tools. Don't spend too long using charcoal-piles or bloomeries, build the timber mill early on for Firewood and Timber production, a blast furnace will improve efficiency over bloomeries, so should be an early planned and built building as soon as you make enough building requirements. Try to get into mining first for the coal-coke production to use in the furnaces and blacksmiths. It is then a delicate balance of staggering production cycles at sites and building up a lamp oil (or candle) industry for further mining. Don't be tempted to build things like the hospital too early and waste precious iron, you will be struck by disease often, but in short doses and more often than not your citizens will survive, though death is still a common occurrence for some illness and disease and you will have more idling while unwell. Once you get past a certain point after building up the industry, you should find the game no longer as difficult, as long as you still maintain a stable food production/supply.

There will be a large health and happiness drop at the start of the game as the game calculates that what makes them healthy and happy is not available (they start with full stars and hearts). It is not easy to get them happy and healthy, they will need all 4 food groups to be healthy, plus for happiness they want a larger selection of 15+ different foods to eat. They want to achieve more work than standard game, so make sure you don't have citizens living too far away from work-storage-market-happiness idling locations, etc. Though you may get slightly more idling when unhappy and unhealthy and disease will hit more often, I still suggest on concentrating on the production of a tool and mining industry first.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 05, 2019, 08:03:01 AM
I had a question about the happiness system. On the structures that have a negative happiness detractor on them, is that for only when they are in operation, so only when they are working they are making people unhappy? Or do they make people unhappy just by their presence regardless of whether they are operational or not?

I wonder if Thadd Surrel and his family are a bunch of hoity-toity city dwellers! They'll sell anything but livestock; I guess they didn't want to deal with the stink and mess of it all!  I'm glad to hear they've come to their senses and will soon trade in livestock, there's a profit to be made there so they should just think about that, use their fingers to pinch their noses, and smile while counting the influx of coin!  ;D                
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Nilla on September 05, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
Iīm sorry, @MarkAnthony for not looking well enough. I suppose I mistook the barrels for clay and sand. I should have known that youīll think about well-located stores.

Yes, I (often) like to trade. Especially when Iīm using a mod like this. "Industrial" means to me you produce something on an industrial scale in order to buy something else. In Banished the most valuable thing to buy is food. I can also confess that Iīm no big fan of farming. But since the "purchase office" is new, I havenīt used it. I have tried that port where you only sell for coins but only short because I saw no use of it. But I will try these ports, too in my next game. In the North, the coin trade makes a lot of fun.

Itīs hard (impossible?) to get full happiness and health. I donīt know @Discrepancy if youīve made any changes here since one of the earlier betas, where I really tried to go for it in one of the test games but not fully succeeded. My experience so far is that improving health rather pays off than improving happiness. The only way is to have a full diet and a good distribution of food. And herbalists are useless or I would say really harmful unless you have managed this. And @MarkAnthony, Iīm not sure but I think that as soon as the building with the black circle stands, it starts to detract happiness or it doesn't really detract happiness, it just makes it harder to raise the happiness over 3 stars.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 05, 2019, 09:12:58 AM
Thank you @Nilla, for your reply. I too think just the presence of the building is enough to detract happiness but then I wondered if maybe it worked the way the Vanilla Church did, where it's only supposed to provide happiness if it was staffed with a Cleric.

So you have no experience with the Thadd Surrel & Family traders either, okay. I sure do hope that when I manage to get it built that they are pretty early with seed offerings! There's no way I am gonna get that Vanilla Trader built (for livestock), or the Vanilla Tailor for that matter, they each want 40 Iron to build. Fuhgitaboutit!  >:(

Here's how precious that Iron Ore is for me in this current game: First of all this game didn't start with the Ore Smelters like my two previous games did, so I didn't have any Iron Ore that magically appeared and pre-built a Bloomery for me.  I have to grab the stuff myself (or my Banies do on my behalf). With my village at dead center of the monitor fully zoomed out - the whole area within the monitor gave me four single, iron ore spots (red dots). I panned the camera on both sides of the monitor and selected those areas too and only got a few more. So for such a large area, I got only about a dozen ore "red dots" to gather up. No way in hell am I wasting it on a Vanilla structure that wants so much (40 ea) thinking this is like the "old days" when Iron just graced us with it's abundant presence everywhere on the map!

Haven't they heard the news yet?! Geesh. The Aliens (@Discrepancy) came and beamed up all of our iron, there's none to be had any more. Were in a new dystopian age now!  ???    lol

"... walks away and mumbles something about "Where the hell is my (tin) hat at? Damn thievin' Banies! Now the Aliens will hear my thoughts." ...
               
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on September 05, 2019, 09:47:48 AM
i think i am more used to the lack of iron. in CC you do need to conserve it. to smelt iron took like 2 more buildings,1 to smlt the iron ore and a fuel refinery. even with the RK EC,you only have enough iron at start for 1 or 2 buildings better make the right 1 or you have to wait for merchants to bring more.

    i can send my indians to teach you to make and repair tools.arrowheads and tomahauks work really well to cut down trees or hunt deer.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 05, 2019, 10:16:41 AM
Didn't your gremlins eat those Indians?   ;D
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on September 06, 2019, 09:14:29 AM
i want to bring this note here. and other players can debate this. 

charcoal is set to the firewood limit. i don't like that.i'll tell you why based on experience. with the charcoal and firewood on the same limit,you run a risk of hitting the limit with 1 and shutting down the other. in this case, i hit the limit without even starting the kiln. if i hit the limit with charcoal,the choppers will stop cuitting firewood. this was found with using RED's fodder mod long ago. you can block a chain from functioning with all of a production chain being under 1 limit flag. if the charcoal was under the industrial fuel flag, the backup would be avoided.

      i realize my way would stop houses from using the charcoal. since i don't use charcoal very ofteni won't say how CC or RK has it flagged. i think usually by the time i bring charcoal to a map,the bannies are using firewood more steadily than in early game. since i just started working with the DSIM, there may be other fuel options for the ore processing that i have not noticed yet.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Nilla on September 06, 2019, 11:41:16 AM
Charcoal isnīt in the firewood limit. If you have it that way, your mod mixture must trick you somehow. It can, however, be used as a household fuel. Thatīs right and pretty annoying if you donīt pay attention and run low on firewood, your Bannis will fire all the precious charcoal away. But as you might know, I like such difficulties.
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: Discrepancy on September 09, 2019, 12:18:09 AM
I had a question about the happiness system. On the structures that have a negative happiness detractor on them, is that for only when they are in operation, so only when they are working they are making people unhappy? Or do they make people unhappy just by their presence regardless of whether they are operational or not?
Some buildings will function like this, others will not. I will add a description to the buildings in the next version.


@brads3 the Charcoal in DSIM is limited to Fuels: Metallurgical (Custom3) so @Nilla is correct in that it is something in your load order that is doing this.
Though Charcoal is also flagged as a fuel (Custom3 | Fuel), the resource will limit to the first flag but allow use in homes due to including the second flag, but it should not be limiting to the Household fuel limit.

:)
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: brads3 on September 13, 2019, 10:44:35 AM
not sure if this was mentioned so i'll ask. what is your plan with some of the menus? the mine overseer menu is very small and only the inventory. your mod altered the mini townhall menu. it is narrower so the production menu is scrollable sideways. i'm playing ahead of my blog so will have more in a few days.nothing major just little things. i figure you had a reason for the menus, just curious as to what your thinking was?
Title: Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 13, 2019, 11:52:58 AM
The Overseer's window is just an Inventory window so we don't have to struggle with tons of stockpiles and barns to see what we got; to get the full "town hall" style UI you need to build the other building that goes with this, I forget the name since I am not in DSIM right now.