World of Banished

Conversations => Challenges => Topic started by: Trizeropz on March 21, 2015, 12:27:12 PM

Title: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on March 21, 2015, 12:27:12 PM
You all probably know the achievement 'mountain man'. i did it last week and going lots over the actual target. which gave me the idea to to a challenge about it. the most occupants you can! no matter how long you can hold these. just the moment with the most occupants count
i would subdivide it like this:

1. Classic:
Small Mountain Map
Any Seed
Fair
Easy
Disasters Off

2. Advanced:
Small Mountain Map
Any Seed
Harsh
Hard
Disasters On


3. Extreme:
Small Mountain Map
Any Seed
Harsh
Hard
No Trading Post
No Herbalist
Disasters On

4. Mod-User
Small Mountain Map
Any Seed
Mild/Fair/Harsh
Easy/Medium/Hard
Any Mod (nothing with bigger maps or similar)


What do you think about it? Any suggestions about changes? I hope there was no similar challenge like this before:D
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on March 21, 2015, 06:46:52 PM
There was a challenge called "Valley of Death" once it was on a small map but I don't think it was on a mountain map.

I like to build on small maps, as extreme as possible, but I will not start a a bigger game until I've finished my fast game. But after that I'm in.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Bobbi on March 22, 2015, 10:50:00 AM
I didn't know you could turn disease off? Disasters, do you mean? They still get disease even with disasters off. I never play with disasters on, my main enjoyment is building a pretty (and reasonably functional) town, so having a fire or tornado rip up my town is not my idea of a good time. This does sound like a challenge I could try, once we get the parameters straight.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on March 22, 2015, 11:29:57 AM
ops. i mean disasters. sorry:D corrected this
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Bobbi on March 22, 2015, 01:33:15 PM
I will try it, but have not decided on with mod/without mod. Have not played an un-modded game in eons. Your middle (number 2) parameters are too frightening for me. Hard start and no trading means they never have more than three food groups, and no herbalist? Shiver.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on March 22, 2015, 01:49:35 PM
Okay, what if there is a medium difficult?

2. Advanced:
Small Mountain Map
Any Seed
Harsh
Hard
Disasters On


4 categories with each 1 winner. I would take a term of 2 weeks so it would end 05.04.15,  0:00
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on March 24, 2015, 08:34:53 AM
I have started a game with the conditions 2.

You may see the start at the 100 challenge. Who knows, maybe there is no King Of The Mountain but a Queen.  ;D ;)

I'll do my best.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on March 30, 2015, 03:06:39 AM
As I said, I played this challenge. This is my kind of game! I like the extreme! This was pretty extreme! The map is absolutely full, no buildable space left anywhere.

I went on to play my 100 educated game. You can see the start at that challenge. First it was a mixture of trade and farming, and a small green lung, with forests in the middle of the map. But as the population grew, it became a 95%-trade community. (I did squeeze in a couple of fisher, that was all the food production at the end). Yes, OK the trading and the micromanagement of the trade, is not very funny, but there is not room for so many tradingports at a small mountain map, so it wasn't too bad.

The biggest screenshot I have is with 1474 inhabitants, that was after I took a big bunch of nomads. And I can tell you; the settlement survived! I played it another ten years or so. The food was pretty low from time to time but no one starved and as the population sank, the problems was solved. I played a little bit with nomads and the bad located hospital, I wrote about in another thread. That idea work! http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=836.0

I really recommend you all to try this challenge. It is really interesting to go for the limits of a map. Many people speak a bit contemptuously about trade, but in a game like this, on the limits; it's not so easy to micromanage.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on March 31, 2015, 09:35:57 AM
Wuuut? i didnt know its possible to get over 1000:00
i unfortunately didnt have time to do it. no i became ill and have time to go on with my 4k village:)
im doing king of the mountain later.
it would be interesting if someone would do condition 3 with me and the same seed and look who can do better and wich fail each will made:D
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on March 31, 2015, 11:22:36 AM
I have thougt a little bit about doing that one too. No 1000 peeps there Im afraid. If you like to try it, tell me, and we start a game.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 08, 2015, 04:39:16 AM
I think you are busy with your BIG settlement @Trizeropz and I suppose you have no time for this experiment, but I started a game yesterday, haven't played for a week or two and thought this could be a nice little "restart".

If anyone like to join me by this game I'll blog my efforts: The name of the settlement is Eglingoldfort.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 08, 2015, 06:29:15 AM
ive holidays whole next week. will have enough time to do both. do we want to play the same seed? do you want do choose a map? same conditions? i would really want to do this with you:)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 08, 2015, 07:26:23 AM
looks like a nice challenge. will try to do this one this weekend, maybe start of next week when i've got some (spare) time.

do we want to play the same seed? do you want do choose a map? same conditions?

That would certainly would show the differences between playing styles, planning and such..
i'm all for it : Seed 123 for me. would be fun to see the results
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 08, 2015, 09:06:00 AM
Should I wait for you guys, so that we all play together?
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 08, 2015, 09:48:02 AM
that would be nice. i will play to year 7 like you and post my screenshots. if chillz want to play with us and he is at year 7 too we can go on
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 08, 2015, 04:00:52 PM
i had some time just now, so i started the town "Easyasonetwothree"
> 3. Extreme: Small Mountain Map. Seed : 123 (same as @Nilla )
Harsh, Hard start conditions, No Trading Post, No Herbalist, Disasters On, no mods.

Just finished early winter 7.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 08, 2015, 10:39:12 PM
Okay nice. I will Do today. And post it in the evening
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2015, 01:22:24 AM
i had some time just now, so i started the town "Easyasonetwothree"
> 3. Extreme: Small Mountain Map. Seed : 123 (same as @Nilla )
Harsh, Hard start conditions, No Trading Post, No Herbalist, Disasters On, no mods.

Just finished early winter 7.

Nice;show us some schreens and tell a little about your strategy!

Okay nice. I will Do today. And post it in the evening

Im excited to see!
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 09, 2015, 04:10:29 AM
Nice;show us some schreens and tell a little about your strategy!
Sure :)

Looking at the starting position.. this is not a great spot to start a forester hub, too much mountain within the circle of the forester, so i'll try to setup somewhat south, in the direction of the arrow.   The yellow circle is a nice spot for fishery.
Early Spring 01: 8 adults, 4 children

As usual i'll try to start building the school as fast as possible, even before housing, forester hubs etc. By summer the school was build, it was within the last few hammer strikes, Elbertie became adult :( so 1 uneducated dummie to deal with.

Forester hub finished and active right away (planting). Housing available for all. Just before blacksmith finished building the tools ran out.
Summer 03 : 11 Adults, 1 student, 5 children

Teacher died due to childbirth. Bummer :( luckily enough replacement, so no extra dummies.
1 person is switching between woodcutter, blacksmith and tailor.. easy to keep up. Since the supply of leather from the hunters cabin is still low, no clothing available.
Summer 04 : 11 Adults, 3 students, 6 children

With enough barns in walking distance (one at fishery, one at forest), the original cart has been removed to make place for housing, the first stockpile is being removed for the same reason.
7 full years, enough supplies to support future expansion.
Early spring 08 : 20 Adults, 7 students, 7 children

Crossing the river near the fishery, to start a second forest hub. Health and Happiness on the up-tick again too. Plenty of food, tools, clothing and resources for building.
Late summer 10 : 29 Adults, 5 Students, 13 children.

Build a market, to supply housing easier/faster. But don't know if it's the right thing to do. It does take up a lot of valuable space. Health and happiness seem to have balanced out at 4 hearts and 4 1/2 stars for a while now. Maybe i need something for happiness.. Not really thinking about church, graveyard yet.. so maybe a well.
Spring 12 : 33 Adults, 10 Students, 11 children.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2015, 12:43:36 PM
Interesting to see our different approach of this challenge. One thing I must say; Your settlement looks very nice, much nicer than mine. I will play a few more years, too. Hope @Trizeropz catches up soon, too. Interesting to see how he starts.

I started an extra blog for this settlement, maybe I should move that here. Easier to compare what we are doing if it's all together.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 09, 2015, 03:32:18 PM
Interesting to see our different approach of this challenge. One thing I must say; Your settlement looks very nice, much nicer than mine. I will play a few more years, too. Hope @Trizeropz catches up soon, too. Interesting to see how he starts.

I started an extra blog for this settlement, maybe I should move that here. Easier to compare what we are doing if it's all together.
Usually i play large maps and make sure housing (blocks) are at least 2 or 3 road tiles apart in case of fire. With such a small map (and without -flatten- mod, or @RedKetchups 2nd and 3rd story housing) i have to use every available square ;) but still easily path-able / straight roads from point a to b.

yes i've seen your settlement blog, but it's hard to find/follow with this kind of forum software. normally once you've commented it should show automatically in your post list with updates to it.

from what i've seen on your game, the build up of citizens is almost identical to around year 7.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 12, 2015, 10:28:52 AM
dont wait for me. i will need maybe 2 days more.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 12, 2015, 11:49:18 AM
I have played a bit more but  I am not finished yet, Maybe I'll write a bit about it tomorrow.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 14, 2015, 04:57:25 AM
i have played a little further too..
getting enough food in to keep up with citizens expansion is tough!
for now food production seems to settle around 160 citizens .. will post images later this week.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 14, 2015, 12:15:26 PM
Now I will tell just a little bit how this challenge is going on. Haven't played much lately, but some more years has gone by in my isolated settlement. In fact the map is full. I will only go on and build houses until the crash comes. No need for sustainability!

My strategy is to produce as much food as possible on this limited space. The circles of the gatherers fill almost the whole map. Each hut isn't very efficient. There isn't enough free space for that but it doesn't really matter. Fishing huts cover the whole river. The same here, not each of them is "perfect" but the whole river (except the ends) is used. I've looked at the deer and have covered each spot, where they appear with hunting cabins.

On the little space, that's not covered with forest for gatherers I have built all other necessary buildings. It's not possible to build everything outside the gatherer circles but I've tried.

I will try to store as much food as I can. There is only one problem: BARNS! No real space for good located barns. So I have to make some kind of compromise. That's the hard thing with this challenge.

I'm also making some experiments with the forests in order to optimize the production of the gatherers. I alter the number of foresters (0-3), sometimes I let them only cut/only plant. The only real conclusion (and that I knew before); gatherers produce less, if you cut a lot of forest. But the difference otherwise small.

The pictures shows my strategy with the locatioon of my buildings.



Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 15, 2015, 05:24:42 AM
@Nilla  WOW!
i've managed to acquire same amount of citizens, but food supply is wonky at best.
between 25000 in bad years and 29500 in good years.
that is with 13 fishing docks in almost optimal setting, yellow circles almost touching, a few with very small overlap.
12 gathering huts and 10 hunters all at full (4) capacity.
14 forester scattered around the map near hunter/gather to keep wood production up.


but nowhere near the amount of food surplus you have :O


i think i've build up the town too fast. i can sustain it at around 270/275 thats about it.
if i would build more homes (a few spaces left) it will certainly crash. You on the other hand, have to possibility to at least reach 350 before they start to nag for food :O
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 15, 2015, 10:12:34 AM
so i am starting right now. i didnt do the 'isolated' or 'uneducated' and 'one with nature' achievement. i dont know how to do someting like this and its need to be good planned. i have a little advantage now because i can see what you did so far. but i have one thing to test first before starting my village. the thing is, what is better: less fishermen with no overlapping radius or more fishermen with overlaping radius? same with the gatherer. they with gather less if they disturb each other or if they will disturbed by houses in their radius. but which is more effective?

i thought a village with that conditions cant look very good. but i am wrong. both of you have a nice village. actually i dont care about how my town looks like but this time i will try to let it look some better:D

have fun:)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 15, 2015, 10:31:18 AM
what is better: less fishermen with no overlapping radius or more fishermen with overlaping radius? same with the gatherer. they with gather less if they disturb each other or if they will disturbed by houses in their radius. but which is more effective?
I believe -and many others- that when the yellow circles overlap each other the output of gathering hut, fisher dock etc. will be less.
Less in, same amount of fish / food in the area, but spread over more gatherers/fishers.


the more water there is in the yellow circle, the more fish you are able to get for lakes connected to main river and the main river.
Lakes not connected, and small streams might have a (much) lower output.


yellow circle for gatherers :
the less buildings (so more space for trees/mushrooms/herbs etc) the better.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 15, 2015, 10:52:25 AM
i think i was inarticulate. i know that they get less if something in the radius and i know that more water=more fish.

look at the screenshots.
screen 1. 10 fishermens right next to eachother would have, for example 300fish/year. 10*300=3000food
screen 2. 3 fishermens with full radius free=full potential with maybe 1500-2000. 3*1500=4500

the values are just examples.. i just want to know at which point its worth to have a fishermen/gatherer more or not

in screen 3 and 4 the same with gatherer. if it would be the same area would it be worth to have 3 more which overlap with maybe 30% or is it better to dont have 3 more but gatherer with full radius and no overlap
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 15, 2015, 11:02:38 AM
in my opinion, screen 2 and 4 are the better options = full radius.
up the output with more workers per building, not more buildings ;)


in case of screen 4, you could arrange em more to the sides (towards mountains) and have 1 with a little overlap in the center.
the ones on the border could do with less workers, while the one in center uses full workforce


i build most with touching radius, if not possible slight overlap.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 15, 2015, 11:05:43 AM
@Nilla did you place your fishermens like screen 1 or 2? u said they fill the whole river
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 15, 2015, 12:46:32 PM
Don't really understand what you mean, but I put the fisher huts so, that their circles fill the whole river. Some overlap but not all too much.

I produce a little more food than @chillzz 29-33 000 each year. 10 fisher- 10 gatherer- 9 hunter-huts. So about 300 people would be sustainable but I will run it till the crash. Right now!!! I hope for 400.  ;D
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 15, 2015, 03:35:08 PM
Don't really understand what you mean, but I put the fisher huts so, that their circles fill the whole river. Some overlap but not all too much.

I produce a little more food than @chillzz 29-33 000 each year. 10 fisher- 10 gatherer- 9 hunter-huts. So about 300 people would be sustainable but I will run it till the crash. Right now!!! I hope for 400.  ;D
29-33.000 a year.. nice. 

did you first build the forest hubs (forester/gatherer/hunter) so you could have much food stored before expanding housing ?
i made the stupid mistake to expand too fast, leaving too less space for additional forester hubs.. the ones i have now, have too much mountain, stone quarry, buildings or water within their radius and can just keep up with food demand.


330 is possible with your current food supply, 350/375 is feasible with current surplus , 400 would totally be awesome..
if they procreate fast enough it might even be possible to reach 425 ish with those numbers!



Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 16, 2015, 02:40:24 AM
Banished is still surprising. Yesterday I played it to the crash! It's down to 140 people after a really bad starvation. That's not surprising! But the number of people that starved to death, or other expressed; the highest population on that map with those conditions: 547 people! .  Can't believe it!

It could even have been maybe 20 more, if I haven't made a mistake. In summer 40 I only had 6000 food in store and thought that the crash would come soon. It takes a couple of seasons until babies are born to new couples, so there will be no new children in the new houses before the crash anyway. So I rather saved the space. But it was a mistake. I didn't think of all the food that is stored in the houses. So they survived another year. I have 40 less homes than families and I suppose about the half, would have been built in time for new babies. Something to think about guys, for your games.

Except the small graveyard, that I really shouldn't have built, I could think of no other real mistake. I will not say that it isn't possible to get to a bigger population. On a game like this, you have to make a lot of compromises: Where you build food production, houses, barns and other production sites. I have no idea how good my choices where. I think not bad but certainly not perfect.

The main reason, that this game worked so well, was that I started to store food soon. It takes some years to empty a store of 100 000 food, even when the population grows.

I'll show you some screenies later.



Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 16, 2015, 07:56:37 AM
Here are the screenshots I promised you before:

First picture

Strategy for more free ground for houses at the end; demolishing barns.

Second picture

The health is getting down, when the stores are getting smaller. Except at the markets, there's mostly fish (and leather/clothing) in the barns. This means poor health to the people not living close to markets. Never seen people with no harts before. But I haven't really figured out what the disadvantage is. Someone said that if the health is bad, there will be less children. I really don't believe this. Look at Monia; only hart health but three children 2, 6 13 years old. I had the highest food production ever in year 39 (almost 35 000) so the productivity isn't much lower. The ill people are "visiting the herbalist" very brief (because there is no herbalist) and than go on with their normal business.

Third picture

First starvation death!  :(

Fourth picture

Graphs, after the big starvation. If you wonder about these strange lows at food; To save space close to the gatherers, I built barns on spots far away, outside the circle. As the barns close to the food producers were full, I "fake demolished" these good barns, and let the people carry the stuff to the remote barns for later use. Had to do this 3 times.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on April 16, 2015, 04:00:53 PM
the highest population on that map with those conditions: 547 people! .  Can't believe it!
Holy *beeeeeeeeeep* :O
That is amazing!
/me bows to the Queen of the Mountain


On a game like this, you have to make a lot of compromises: Where you build food production, houses, barns and other production sites. I have no idea how good my choices where. I think not bad but certainly not perfect.

The main reason, that this game worked so well, was that I started to store food soon. It takes some years to empty a store of 100 000 food, even when the population grows.
I did see you started a forester/gatherer/hunter hub right at the start position near the cart. That position has too much mountains in the yellow radius in my opinion. a little to the south there was a perfect opening in the mountains for full radius. like i pointed with the yellow arrow. but then again, you totally beat the odds with such a surplus of food :O


So i would say : perfect choices in these circumstances! 


The health is getting down, when the stores are getting smaller. Except at the markets, there's mostly fish (and leather/clothing) in the barns. This means poor health to the people not living close to markets. Never seen people with no harts before. But I haven't really figured out what the disadvantage is. Someone said that if the health is bad, there will be less children. I really don't believe this. Look at Monia; only hart health but three children 2, 6 13 years old. I had the highest food production ever in year 39 (almost 35 000) so the productivity isn't much lower. The ill people are "visiting the herbalist" very brief (because there is no herbalist) and than go on with their normal business.
I've seen the no hearts before, in the 100-challenge i did. Didn't notice any different behaviour/pattern with procreation and production.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 16, 2015, 09:20:47 PM
Wooooow @Nilla  547! Nice!

screen 1 is how my template looks like:
red: gatherer
black: barns
next to a gatherer is always a forester
rest are houses. i didnt placed hunter yet because i think about to dont put them into the gatherer radius. maybe between the storage barn down in the middle

screen 2-4 rest of the gatherer,fisher/forestera
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 17, 2015, 12:26:33 AM
Code: [Select]
chillzz bows to the Queen of the Mountain
Thank you, but I might not be able to hold my crown for very long. I am very curious about your settlement @Trizeropz. It seems like you plan and think a lot. And I think generally, it pays off. I'm not so keen on planning a lot myself. I like to let it grow as it comes. Of cause I have a strategy, some kind of concept that I follow. I have tried to plan more in advance but eather I get bored, when it comes to building (the fun is already done) or I change my planning.

Your first plans looks very much like my settlement. I see that you've dropped the idea of overlapping circles. Have you tested and seen that it's less productive?

I put most of my hunting cabins together with the gatherers. Not because they have to be there, but I tried to catch each possible group of deer with a hunter and mostly it was the easiest way to put them together. But you're right; it's the best thing to put as much buildings outside the gatherer circle as possible. If you manage to do this with the hunters, it could probably increase the productivity of the gatherers.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 17, 2015, 06:56:02 AM
i moved the gatherer back and forth and back again. but i think this is the best placing. yeah i tested something. i will post the results later, very interesting. i try not to overlap them more than ~10%. buildings will be put anyway in the circle in the late game and it will already disturb enough. the forester really needs to be inside the circle but after a clean forest i will set 1 forester/building and set it to only plant'

with my plan i will have 9 gatherer, 10 fisher, 3 markets, 4 blacksmiths and 2 tailor.
i am angry about the fact that i need to put a quarry :/ and ive no spot for it yet..
i set some hunters near the fisher at main river. and 1 hunter over the storage barn i talked about my last post.
my fishermens will get directly next to them a barn and 2 houses. the 3 markets cover maybe half of the houses but if i set more it would be a waste of space.
i will not build a church. but i will build 2 graveyards with 7*7. i dont know how much stars i will get with 3 markets and just the 2 graveyards, but it should be enough to have 3 hearts. and more 'happines-buildings' are in my eyes a waste of space. the gathere have the highest priority to me because they can get the most food/worker.

i will do it like @Nilla  to store many food and get a big baby boom in late game. earlier i will let the population grow very slow. i am still considering if i will build stone or wooden houses :/ the fact that i will have a very long and slow game it would be better to have stone to dont waste that much firewod. but the fact that i have not much stone and iron i should build wooden :/

have fun:)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 06:47:17 AM
I decided to build only wooden houses, too. I had enough foresters anyway. But in the end, as I had to build a couple of more woodchoppers, I somehow regretted, that I didn't make at least some stone houses. I don't think I had to take too much wood out of the forests, to have a good productivity, but I could have used the space for the wood cutters better.

So I could give you this advice; If you have a mine and a quarry; (and I don't think you can do without them); why not use all the materials they have. I did't. That was probably a mistake.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Trizeropz on April 18, 2015, 07:02:22 AM
naaaahh. i dont want to build that:D both are ugly. think i need to xd and i will build stone houses
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 18, 2015, 08:03:52 PM
I'm also giving this a go with map 123.

Year 3

Year 7

Planning the second settlement, with a quarry and a mine in the lower right corner.

Year 11
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 19, 2015, 01:47:30 AM
I am happy to see that you give it a try. I'm excited to see the next pictures.

I was thinking a little bit about to recover my (almost) dead settlement and try to get a sustainable population, that survives at least one population-high.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 19, 2015, 06:23:32 PM
Year 34

For awhile I thought I'd forgotten to turn disasters on!

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 19, 2015, 07:43:57 PM
Year 39

Well, these guys aren't going to make it.  :(
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 20, 2015, 11:50:01 AM
Nice try. As always; your settlement looks much better than mine.

As usual; I have some questions:
I think you had less food in your stores than I had. How much did you produce each year?

I see that you have kept to your 1 hunter in each cabin, also the gatherers are not full with 4 in each. If you have other things for your people to do, that's good. But in this case, I don't understand why you don't occupy as many as possible in these sites.

4 markets in this tiny space; isn't that a bit too much. I almost regretted my second. How do you see the benefits of that?
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 21, 2015, 05:02:31 AM
@Nilla not sure about food production, I'll have to look at it when I get home this evening.

I finally did add a second hunter to each cabin; I didn't notice much change.

Many of the gatherers huts have fewer than four workers because the huts' circles are not fully available for food production. I have the impression that it is possible to over-harvest to the point of diminishing future returns, but I don't have any evidence to back this up. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Yeah, the markets, they take up so much space! I built them to insure guys would not have long treks across the map just to find tools. I could have built more smiths, but then the smiths would have long treks to find iron. I suppose on such a map as this I should worry less about optimizing distribution and just max out space for food production. I may back up few days and try this one again.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: RedKetchup on April 21, 2015, 06:38:02 AM
Yeah, the markets, they take up so much space! I built them to insure guys would not have long treks across the map just to find tools. I could have built more smiths, but then the smiths would have long treks to find iron. I suppose on such a map as this I should worry less about optimizing distribution and just max out space for food production. I may back up few days and try this one again.

should use my specialized markets from New Medieval Town !!

 ;D
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 21, 2015, 06:46:12 AM
@RedKetchup I know, but part of the challenge is no mods!  ;D
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: RedKetchup on April 21, 2015, 07:28:00 AM
@RedKetchup I know, but part of the challenge is no mods!  ;D

haha a chance i am not doing mods 'JUST' for you lolz
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 21, 2015, 04:45:12 PM

I think you had less food in your stores than I had. How much did you produce each year?


Year 39 was 33,800; 38 was 32,600, 37 was 33,400, last five average 31,500. I should have ramped food up more before I started pushing pop, or rather I should have eased back from pushing pop while I built up food. But my food consumption exceeded my production the last 8 years. The most food I ever had stored was 57,000. I should have tried for 2-3 times that much.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 21, 2015, 05:05:19 PM
@Nilla not sure about food production, I'll have to look at it when I get home this evening.

I finally did add a second hunter to each cabin; I didn't notice much change.

Many of the gatherers huts have fewer than four workers because the huts' circles are not fully available for food production. I have the impression that it is possible to over-harvest to the point of diminishing future returns, but I don't have any evidence to back this up. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Yeah, the markets, they take up so much space! I built them to insure guys would not have long treks across the map just to find tools. I could have built more smiths, but then the smiths would have long treks to find iron. I suppose on such a map as this I should worry less about optimizing distribution and just max out space for food production. I may back up few days and try this one again.

I knew you had reasons for what you do. :) ;)

I dont think that it does any harm for the productivity, if you put as many gatherers, hunters, fishers.....into the huts as possible. For sure, if the area is small, two or three are able to cover it all but I see it as a security, same as i may put 3 farmers on a field if I have very many laborers. I cannot see that it has some long term disadvantages to harvest all that's possible from the forest, I think the opposite: Only if you pick the berries, mushrooms.... there will grow new. The old one stay quite long, but they do die after a while.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 21, 2015, 08:06:05 PM
Backing up was pointless, the whole town was flawed. I started over. This time, no markets. What difference between one and none, really?

edit: I may build one market there in the open notch at the lower right corner of the settlement, just to pull iron from the future mine to the smith..
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 22, 2015, 02:14:02 PM
Good idea @irrelevant; to build no markets. The map is small, so I think that will work. But why don't you build the smith right next to the mine? Than you don't need a market for that.

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 22, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Well, I had to choose between a market and a barn, and then another barn. I built the market (because of the vendor's capabilities compared with dumb barns), as I had plenty of logs and iron, and had saved a good location for it. No more markets, though.

@Nilla the smith is already built; he's in a good location, near the center of the map. If I put him by the mine, he's off in the boondocks. Of course, with the market, I could put him anywhere, but he is where he is.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 25, 2015, 10:03:05 PM
Year 33

This looks promising. Concentrated on food (and barns) from the start.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 26, 2015, 03:41:09 AM
Yes, the perfect strategy! First slow, collecting as much stores as you can; than a fast growth. I think we will have a King of the Mountain soon.  ;)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 26, 2015, 09:22:25 AM
Year 40

Coming down to the final push for pop. 34 houses queued up with foundations laid. I'll need another 15-20 after that. By then some barns will be emptied out, and I can replace each empty barn with 2 houses. Hopefully the food will hold out for the 6-8 years this will take. Food stock has fallen ~15k from the 168k maximum 4 years ago. Food production per worker has declined ~10% lately, I assume this is due to the difficulty in finding storage.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 26, 2015, 01:06:06 PM
Year 47 - Pop 600

Might go up a bit more, but the crash is a'comin', both food and fuel.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 27, 2015, 02:43:02 AM
Yes I knew it! Congratulations!  :D

I will happily pass the crown to the true King (at least for the moment, let's see how our friend @Trizeropz will answer). ;)

I'm sure they will survive some more years. Don't forget all the stuff they have in their homes. My people survived almost a year longer, than I thought they would. So it will be an impressive population.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: RedKetchup on April 27, 2015, 04:05:59 AM
congratulations !
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 27, 2015, 05:57:52 AM
@RedKetchup thanks!

Yes I knew it! Congratulations!  :D

I will happily pass the crown to the true King (at least for the moment, let's see how our friend @Trizeropz will answer). ;)

I'm sure they will survive some more years. Don't forget all the stuff they have in their homes. My people survived almost a year longer, than I thought they would. So it will be an impressive population.
I ran out of time yesterday, I just wanted to get to 600. I'll continue this evening. I have a trick I want to try when the food and firewood start to run out. ;)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on April 27, 2015, 10:25:35 AM
I am locking forward to hear about that trick!  :)
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: irrelevant on April 27, 2015, 04:47:11 PM
I am locking forward to hear about that trick!  :)

The trick is, as houses run out of firewood, I fake-demolish them. That way, instead of freezing, the residents will warm up at other bannies' homes, and whatever food they have at home will go back into the barns. ;)

It's just a way of wringing a little bit more work out of them before they starve or freeze. ;)

Pop 650

And then, just like that, pop 279 :o

Well, it's not letting me post attachments, I'll post pics later.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: kee on May 07, 2015, 03:32:46 PM
I'm trying for that hardball, no herbiage or anything version.
Just got awarded isolationist but we're well beyond the tipping point when it comes to food- yearly production is about 2500 short of yearly consumption, the storage is at 17000 so sustainable it ain't. current pop 207/33/62=302. Hearts have dropped to 3 1/2 now due to unbalanced diet, had it at 4 1/2 until pop. reached about 240 and I had to up the fishermen and hunters. Too much protein is bad for you.
Map: 11235813, small, mountain, harsh, disaster on. This seed does not have a lot of flat ground or long river, which was quite a disappointment given the numbers in the seed. I'd expect something really golden.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: chillzz on May 07, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
@irrelevant 600 pop on extreme, seed 123 :O  damn! you're god :P
i really should give it another go, with a more @irrelevant / @Nilla / @Trizeropz type of approach.

Too bad i'm having too much fun beta testing some mods from our francophone residents @RedKetchup and @Darkbibou
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on May 07, 2015, 05:21:53 PM
You know, @kee , it's a small mountain map, there is no flat ground or long rivers. I think that 123, that some of us used are a bit better, but also no gold, maybe brass. ;)

Did you have only boarding houses or also normal homes?

Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: kee on May 07, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
I had this weird idea that you can cram more people in boarding houses than normal housing per area, so I thought at first I could mix, use most boarding houses and fill up the nooks and crannies with normal. That didn't work well- when there were normal houses around they flat out refused to move in to the b.h. Hence, only b.h. Still this town is limited by food rather than space really. Outbreaks of influenza didn't help either.
Title: Re: King Of The Mountain
Post by: Nilla on May 12, 2015, 10:02:52 AM
After @irrelevant stole my crown in that extreme version of this challenge (yes, he deserves it, no doubt), I want another crown in the modded version! We'll see how long I may keep it. :)

2980 inhabitants.

Mods:
@RedKetchup New medieval Town
@RedKetchup Adrianas Root Cellar
@JamieIdle2.0 Specialized Trading Ports

There are more and nicer picture in my blog  http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=872.30