World of Banished

Conversations => Challenges => Topic started by: Nilla on April 17, 2015, 05:05:51 AM

Title: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 17, 2015, 05:05:51 AM
As @Trizeropz put out his new challenge; about getting as much production from gatherers fishers and herbalists, I came to think about this challenge as a combination.

Produce and store as much food as possible in a certain time.

There was a similar challenge in another forum a long time ago, but there was the goal just to produce the food, not any time limit. (I played that one and I think I havenīt built so many barns in all my other games)

I would suggest; we set the time to 10, 30 and 50 years. We could use the same game, just a couple of "mile stones".

I like to test and compare two different settings; with and without trade. Choose which you like the best (or try both).

What about mods? I would say; no. There are a number of "cheaters", that only increase the production. I donīt want them to be used. There are others, that would be fine, but itīs hard to decide; what is cheat, what is not. Itīs easier to say no mods. Iīm open to discuss this matter if anyone wants to.

I find it more interesting, if everyone use the same map. I have chosen one.

Itīs a large map. I suppose a medium map would have worked as well, but I donīt want the space to be limiting.

It shouldnīt be too hard to play without trade, so I wanted one vegetable, one grain and sheep. The starting position shouldnīt be too difficult and there had to be a good possibility to build several trading ports, close to the starting position, if you want to do the trade alternative.

I looked at many maps, but didnīt find anyone that had all of this. So I dropped one thing; the sheep. Here we have cattle, but I think the population could do with leather clothes in the no trade version. There are beans and wheat, very nice. The starting position looks good. There is even a spot for  "all time high" fish production.

Settings:
Terrain: valleys
Map: large
Climate: fair
Start: easy
Map number: 555

Anyone interested?

After Iīve played a little I think itīs good to make it more precise how to present the result. At the time you choose in year 10, 30 and/or 50 make a schreenshot where the amount of stored food is shown. You choose the time free, only some time during that year.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Trizeropz on April 17, 2015, 06:38:02 AM
yeah i will join. maaaaan i need another week of holidays. there is so much that i want to do in banished. i fucking love this game! i would play the 50 years and trading condition. map is alright, but do you really want to start easy? the first house locations annoys me:DDD
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 06:22:04 AM
You are so right about these houses, I don't like the way they are put eather, but in this challenge it's unfortunately an easy start.

why?

As I said, I wanted it to be easy to play without trade. And if you don't have any animals from the start, you could never build a pasture and must rely on leather from hunters for clothes. IT s possible, no doubt, but I don't want the need of clothing to dominate this game. I wanted sheep, but was too bored to search any more maps.

You can always demolish the starting houses.

I started a game yesterday; a small tip; if you want all to be educated, you have to be very fast with the school. I started with the school next to the stockpile. The first time I tried,; the school was ready, I was just about to put a teacher into it as the first child became an adult. I made another successful try, not because it matters much in this game, just because it was so close the first time.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Trizeropz on April 18, 2015, 06:24:17 AM
i dont understand why do you want a school that early. can you explain?:)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 06:36:25 AM
I'm a bit lazy. That's the reason.

If not everyone is educated, you have to watch out and see that these uneducated are busy, where they don't do much harm (best profession for uneducated; teacher!). I don't want any uneducated tailors, blacksmiths, woodcutters, hunters or laborers getting wood, stone and iron at the beginning. I also find the time where you don't get any new laborers (10 years old go to school and not to work) hurts less just at the beginning.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Trizeropz on April 18, 2015, 07:01:29 AM
i normally build a school around year 5-6. right at the start i need every laborer asap but if the school house will take my childs longer i need to wait more. thats why i wait till i have more than 10 laborer to build a school. but i dont thought about the more effective blacksmith,cutter etc at the start. i think i will try it like this with an early school:)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on April 18, 2015, 07:21:34 AM
A school normally is the first building I build. Uneducated workers are a pain.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: rkelly17 on April 18, 2015, 07:27:13 AM
i normally build a school around year 5-6. right at the start i need every laborer asap but if the school house will take my childs longer i need to wait more. thats why i wait till i have more than 10 laborer to build a school. but i dont thought about the more effective blacksmith,cutter etc at the start. i think i will try it like this with an early school:)

This challenge looks interesting--I might just take it up. As to schools: My goal is to get the first baby born in the settlement into school. On an Easy start I might make an exception and go sooner because one has more people to start with. I do build and start working a school earlier on a Medium start when I have an uneven number of citizens--I get the youngest into school. There my goal is to maximize reproduction and that last citizen can't pair up with anyone, so put him/her in school and increase working efficiency. On a Hard start I build the blacksmith first (after gatherer, hunter, woodcutter and forester) because I'm usually about out of tools. Then comes the school, but it is very difficult to get that built before all the originals have passed 10 (end of Year 2).

PS: Disasters On or Off?


Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 10:04:32 AM
Disasters on or off, what you please. I have off in the game I started and I recommend it that way.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 11:56:10 AM
I can show you the first result of this challenge. Winter 10: 54 064 food in the barns!

I begin to think, that it could be a mistake to set the timelimit to 50 years. I suppose it's possible to hoard very much food in that time.

I see now that I must change a great deal. I have much too few barns.


Some pictures along the way.

First picture

No,no,no! Bad cow! The beans are for the barns, not for you!

Second picture

Sometimes I don't understand the algorithms of this game. Look at this "perfect" fishing spot (that might not be so perfect after all, because there are only room for one small house close and no barns); who lives in the house next to the fisher? Farmers! Where do the fishers live?

Third picture

Here, close to the fields! (And I haven't just built the house, it stands a year or so).

Fourth picture

10 years. I have started to expand across the river. My strategy is farming, farming, farming. I try this challenge without trade.

Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: rkelly17 on April 18, 2015, 01:18:26 PM
Holy hoarding, Batman! @Nilla, you have certainly set a high bar for this challenge. My first effort only came in at 21,000 after the harvest in year 10. I also note that I have 80 people to your 64, which makes for more people to farm but also more people to eat. I'll start over and see if I can get anywhere near your 54,000.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 18, 2015, 02:08:50 PM
Yes, I let it grow a little bit slower than possible, I see some other differences;

Orchards; I have no. Unmodded orchards are crap! I only build them sometimes early in a game for wood. (unless there are some other special reason)

Field size; My fields are about 120 squares big . Yours seems to be a bit smaller. I only use one farmer on each, but I micromanage them. That means; manual start of the harvest at about 95%. When the early beans are done, I let the bean farmer help out at the wheat fields. Bad years there are a lot of crops spoiled, but I am sure that even than my farmers produce at least the same as yours on the small fields. On good years as everything is harvested, I get much more.

Number of workers at each plant. Unless I have a lot of spare workers, I never fill the gatherers, fishers or hunters full. It looks like you have. Under normal conditions, like here, gatherer nr 1 and  also nr 2 finds a lot of food, but it looks, as if they are 3 in that hut, each of them finds less, and with 4, it gets even worse. If you want 4 gatherers, itīs better to build 2 huts for them.

 
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 19, 2015, 02:20:50 AM
I thought a little bit yesterday on what you said @rkelly17 about the population and also took a look at the pictures once more. First I think it must be good with a large population, if you use them well and not only let them eat. Second, I find I didn't let it grow slow at the start, not as fast as possible, but still quite fast. And see. Maybe you looked at the adults. I had 94 inhabitants, not 64.

I played a bit more yesterday and I am now quite sure I will play 30 years, not 50. I'm now in year 19. More than 200 000 food!

I can show you some pictures: Shortly after I wrote about my farming; this happened; a really early frost. Yes, much is spoiled, but I don't bother about that. I count what's harvested. And that's still a lot.

The strange low at the food graph shows an experiment of emptying barns close to production sites. It was no good. They are soon full again. There's only one thing to do: Barn spam!!! The gatherers will soon be surrounded by barns.  ::) :P


Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 20, 2015, 04:52:59 PM
Oh dear, this is a thing. Even though I suggested the challenge, I don't know if I can recommend it. Tiresome! I build more barns than houses, but still there are too few. My last harvest wasn't very good. Not because of the wheather but because the barns were full again. But only a few more years to go until 30.

I will ABSOLUTELY NOT play to 50 years.


Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 22, 2015, 02:28:58 PM
Played the last years of this dreadful game.

I must say; If one thing is overpowered in Banished; It's farms!  ;)

A surplus of 581 500 food in 30 years! Most of it from farming. Just enough gatherers, fishers, hunters and herdsmen to have enough fruit and protein for my few people.

Look at the barns! I have too few!  :o :( :-\ ;)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on April 22, 2015, 07:03:45 PM
@Nilla well you have enough barns to store 15 years worth of food!! That's incredible. How many farms do you have??
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 23, 2015, 04:46:10 AM
I have 65 fields, with one farmer each, and produced 65 500 food last year, 25 300 used. After the harvest in early winter 67 800, so maybe 70 000 in year 30.

The combination of beans and wheat is very convenient to micromanage. So unless the barns are really overfull or there is a very nasty wheather, I manage to harvest all there is.

I start in early summer:
looking at the beans, at 95% growth, the harvest is started manually,
in late summer most beans are working and the wheat harvest could start, again at 95%,
at the same time, the first bean fields are done, the farmer is sent to a close wheat field, where the harvest has started and there's plenty of wheat left,
I go on this way until the temperature gets close to the freezing point or I see that everything will be harvested anyway,
if I am short of stones, I send the spare farmers to the quarry during the winter (I built a second quarry close to my main farming area to make this easier)
and of cause; reset all the fields to one farmer,
in late winter all farmers are sent back from the quarry,

So from early summer to late winter this takes almost all my time. Some new fields, a lot of new barns and a few houses are planned in the time between.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on April 30, 2015, 11:39:41 AM
@Nilla so for this challenge would I have to use map 555, or could I use another one I liked better?
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on April 30, 2015, 12:41:23 PM
Do as you please. I just find it more fun, to compare how different persons use the same map in different ways. That was my only reason for choosing a map.

Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on April 30, 2015, 08:48:23 PM
@Nilla ok, I prefer sheep (as do you) but I used your map. Nice swath of farmland there  ;)

Year 7 - Getting started on spamming farms

Year 10 - Farms 'n' barns. Using my trusty grid, of course. If there's a better way to produce food than this, I've never seen it.

The last image shows the forest nodes; these were the initial resource providers, allowing expansion into the farmland to the south. It was only in starting in year 6 or so that I encroached on the circles at all. The gatherers and the hunters alone produce nearly as much food as the town consumes; the farms are almost all surplus.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on May 01, 2015, 02:07:06 AM
I'm sure you're right. And as usual; Way ahead of me!  :)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 AM
Way ahead of me!  :)
Only reason is, you went first. I'm not sure I would have realized how much was possible otherwise.

I probably will continue this town to year 30. First thing I need to do is build a couple of markets, the farmers out on the west end aren't getting much besides wheat and beans.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on May 01, 2015, 08:15:42 AM
I donīt think itīs possible, but maybe if you push it really hard, you can reach the 999 999 until than. This is a challenge for you.; Barns, barns, barns, you canīt build enough of them!  ;)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: RedKetchup on May 01, 2015, 09:48:43 AM
barns hold 6,000 weight x 150 = 900k
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 01, 2015, 07:21:56 PM
Year 16

Had some consolidation that needed doing. Markets. Stone quarry. Expanded forest nodes out to the north, the old ones soon will be gone. And meanwhile the barns keep filling up! The only fix for that is markets and more barns.

The first move to the south.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 02, 2015, 05:57:46 AM
The last two years the barns in the farm grid have been full to the extent that harvesting is incomplete. Fake-demolishing has only limited effect as they just fill right back up. Going to take 3-4 of those fields out of service and replace them with barns. Future farm grids will be modified with double-width barn/house strips.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on May 02, 2015, 06:56:06 AM
I see that you make the same experience as I did. ;)

I also wrote about it.

The strange low at the food graph shows an experiment of emptying barns close to production sites. It was no good. They are soon full again. There's only one thing to do: Barn spam!!! The gatherers will soon be surrounded by barns.  ::) :P

Read my blogs! Than you can avoid a lot of mistakes ;)

But I know, it's also fun to make the experience yourself.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 02, 2015, 07:15:25 AM
@Nilla I know you did, I read your posts. I even have the same dips in my food curve. But we learn so much better from our own difficulties than from the difficuties of those who came before us  ;)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: rkelly17 on May 02, 2015, 07:17:01 AM
The last two years the barns in the farm grid have been full to the extent that harvesting is incomplete. Fake-demolishing has only limited effect as they just fill right back up. Going to take 3-4 of those fields out of service and replace them with barns. Future farm grids will be modified with double-width barn/house strips.

Isn't full barns the point of hoarding?  ;D

And, @irrelevant, you, of all people, caught without enough barns? I'm shocked!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 02, 2015, 07:29:43 AM
@rkelly17  ;D I know, right? I'm thinking for this challenge there is no way to have "enough" barns. I'd already increased my barn density from normal somewhat too, but didn't go far enough. I think even doubling them up is not going to be enough.

Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: rkelly17 on May 04, 2015, 07:40:41 AM
@rkelly17  ;D I know, right? I'm thinking for this challenge there is no way to have "enough" barns. I'd already increased my barn density from normal somewhat too, but didn't go far enough. I think even doubling them up is not going to be enough.

I can hardly wait to see the result: A town with more barns than houses!

By the way, in case you aren't aware, Jesus told a story about a guy who over-built barns. Not a positive outcome.  ;D
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: RedKetchup on May 04, 2015, 12:23:03 PM
@rkelly17  ;D I know, right? I'm thinking for this challenge there is no way to have "enough" barns. I'd already increased my barn density from normal somewhat too, but didn't go far enough. I think even doubling them up is not going to be enough.

I can hardly wait to see the result: A town with more barns than houses!

By the way, in case you aren't aware, Jesus told a story about a guy who over-built barns. Not a positive outcome.  ;D

this is why my markets are there :)
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: irrelevant on May 04, 2015, 06:25:57 PM
Year 30

Didn't quite make it. Concentrated too hard on maxxing out year 10, took me several years to get back on track.

Barns 132, houses 84. Farms 75. Food 504,070.

The only reason I can think of to go on with this, would be to see how long it takes to reach 1,000,000 food. Before year 50, for sure.
Title: Re: Food, food, food - or "The times could get worse, letīs hoard what we can"
Post by: Nilla on May 06, 2015, 04:05:27 AM
I'm surprised that you didn't get more than me at year 30. You had more at the beginning, and produce more in year 30. As you say; I suppose you had some bad years in between.

This shows you other players (if you don't mind building a lot of barns); You could get 600 000 food or more in 30 years. Make like @irrelevant at the beginning and at the end and like me in between.   ;)

Maybe someone wants to try it with trade. I'm not so sure that it will bring much more, at least not the first 10 years, maybe to 30. I would very much like to see it.

We are waiting for your attempts.