Author Topic: Nordic Landscape  (Read 40205 times)

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 05:13:39 PM »
wow sounds awesome !

thanks you
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 05:58:11 AM »
Thank you, RedKetchup. I hope it feels a bit like your homeland. :)

Glenn, in principle there is no problem to separate the feature of the nordic house. But it's just a texturing of the vanilla model. It replaces the wooden houses no. 5 and 6 and it would not be compatible with savegames. To pack it in a separate mod is a dirty solution. But I can make it if you want to try it. Actually, it needs new 3d models.

Offline The Pilgrim

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 06:33:22 AM »
@Tom Sawyer
I agree, I would actually love to see your buildings packed seperately.  I love the look of them.  I hope its not too much of a pain in the behind.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 07:21:41 AM »
I understand. You want the pretty nordic homes without the nasty nordic weather. This is not consistent. I am inclined to say that these homes are only for real Northmen. ;D

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 03:40:25 PM »
Here is the Nordic Wooden House in a separate mod on special requests. :)

It is savegame compatible when you remove the two old house types with the same shape. Should be compatible with all mods including CC.

Offline Glenn

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 05:17:34 PM »
Thank you for the Nordic house zip.
It will add even more variety to the other landscape variations.

The greater the variety the better the game becomes as a whole.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 07:14:37 AM »
Are there any more Nordic buildings which could be included in your mod? I want to see more of them if possible. No matter if they are modern or from the Medieval ages.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 12:21:14 PM »
Yes. More houses in this original style would be nice. We have to make them. So far as I know this type of house is typical of Scandinavia since the 16th century. So it is not medieval but not modern and fits well in the game. The red color was a byproduct of copper mining and my first idea for the nordic theme was to make the color as a raw material to be needed for the houses. But I thought it would be too complicated and people would not like this way.^^

Online Nilla

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2016, 05:10:34 AM »
I looked into this page again yesterday and saw this mod. I'm Swedish so this mod look perfect to me. Thank you @Tom Sawyer for giving it to us.

I've tried it a bit this morning and so far I like it. You know, I'm an honest person, who not only say nice things and I hope you're not disappointed, if my "review" is not entirely positive. But all in all it´s an interesting mod!

The color of the houses is great! I live in such an old red and white country house. But if you want to take your mod to the next level, I suggest that you make your own design of a Scandinavian house. These outside furnaces disturb me a bit. I suspect that this kind of construction is common in a warmer climate, where a warm furnace in the middle of a house is more disturbing than useful. But even this way it's nice.

What I  love the most is the winter light. You have caught it perfectly! This warm pale sunlight with the long shadows. Impressive! Unfortunately the shadows are also shown at bad wheather; when it snows. That's not so realistic. The strong green summer color is not to my taste either. The ground doesn't have that bright green color in "my" forests. But it's no big deal, it's something different, so it doesn't really matter.

The change of trade and production values gives the game an interesting tweak. I like that! I haven't played long enough to see all the consequences, but you cannot do the "same old thing" as usual: Import logs (here worth 6) and produce firewood (here worth 2) is no good profit. You have to think new. That's good! First I was a bit disturbed from the many traders. They do arrive often. But on the other hand, you don't have to build so many trading ports, and that's good. Anyhow, it seems to be most food traders. If I had 15 merchants arriving so far, 12 of them sold food and three general stuff. No other merchants so far.

I haven't tested any farming in this climate yet (I started hard and no proper seed was offered yet), so I can say nothing about it, but I don't expect that it's very reliable. (or did you tweak the numbers of the crops?)

There are some other nice minor changes like the possibility to harvest wild food, the color of the fish, only fir- and a few birch trees and maybe some more to discover.

So, all in all; I recommend this mod! Again; thank you @Tom Sawyer!

I´ll show you a couple of pictures from my village. I´m sorry the name is wrong, I used the random game name. Of cause, Odensåker, Södra Råda or something like that, would have been better.  ;)

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2016, 09:18:09 AM »
Hej Nilla, a real professional in nordic matters.  :)

Thank you for your nice and detailed review. Thats the way to make it better. Also nice that you discovered the hidden details like the recolored salmon.

The nordic house was a quick way to give the player a typical wooden house with the same function as stone houses. And you're right. The next level is to make 3D models in original design. It is in work. See below. Kid supported me, because I have no experience how to bring it in the game. We make your own real swedish house as a model to play with it in the game if you want.^^

The shadows in weather I can not completely remove, I think. But the colors we can adjust. In my current working version the grass is a bit more yellow and red like in some of the loading screens. If you want, show a photo from a landscape as you imagine the grass.

To the gameplay. "You can not do the same old thing as usual" That was my goal. If you play in "harsh" agriculture is almost impossible. Maybe a couple of potatoes, cabbage and beans. Grain you can forget. So you have to trade and thats the reason to make more merchants and each merchant brings food. And I don't like to spam trading posts... We can adjust it, but it would be frustrating if your citizens starve because no merchant arrives and masses of wood is stockpiled. Or there is a merchant, but he forgot the food. The starting conditions are unchanged. All seeds are available. Maybe you were in "hard".

To the balance of firewood look at this:
educated: 1 log (value 6) cutted to 4 firewood (value 2) = value 8 = 33% profit.
uneducated: 1 log (value 6) cutted to 3 firewood (value 2) = value 6 = 0% profit.

I think 33% profit is realistic. The player can decide whether he sells log directly or further processed firewood. Both make sense. In vanilla game the firewood value is extremely unbalanced imo (700% profit :o).

Your pictures are darker as in the game. Thats the same problem with banished screenshots i have. I usually go in photoshop and make them more similar to the game. I have no idea why that is.

Thanks again and if you have any more ideas, let me know.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 10:39:08 AM by Tom Sawyer »

Online Nilla

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2016, 12:20:15 PM »

To the balance of firewood look at this:
educated: 1 log (value 6) cutted to 4 firewood (value 2) = value 8 = 33% profit.
uneducated: 1 log (value 6) cutted to 3 firewood (value 2) = value 6 = 0% profit.

I think 33% profit is realistic. The player can decide whether he sells log directly or further processed firewood. Both make sense. In vanilla game the firewood value is extremely unbalanced imo (800% profit :o).


I fully agree. As I said; it's no good profit, I only mean, that you cannot support a settlement with only firewood. I saw it's still a profit of 0,5 for each wood and that gives a profit of about 400 for a good chopper. I've also seen, that you can put 3 choppers in each plant, so the woodcutter is still profitable.

Generally, I think the annual profit of each plant/each worker is more interesting than the %. So far, it looks like steel tools is the trading-hit in your mod. (1 iron worth 12, 1 log worth 6, 1 coal worth 6 gives 2 tools each worth 24). That gives a really high profit for each blacksmith. That's good; complicated products, ought to give the best profit.

I have also seen that you've tried to balance the ale-trading. The trade value of fruit is 2 and I guess that you haven't changed the brewery. That gives a reasonable profit. But why is the value of plums only 1? I guess that it's a mistake, but maybe you have some thoughts about it.

Anyhow, I played a little more and have now built some fields and orchards. As I suspected; not very reliable, each year different. It's important to start the harvest manually. I have beans and walnuts. I estimate that the average yearly production of beans is about 400 and walnuts about 200 for one worker on fields of 100-120 squares. Not very good but still acceptable. (I trade the walnuts, worth 3 for fish, worth 1).

I think the picture you have as model is perfect. You don't need my house. If I may wish something; maybe you could design a Scandinavian barn. I have never seen something like the vanilla barn in my neighborhood. Also a typical Nordic school would be nice.


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2016, 03:23:54 PM »
You are right. The truly relevant value is what a worker can produce per year. Or what can be produced in an area. For example, per 100 tiles.

How you calculate the profit of 400 per chopper? I don't know exactly how much log a chopper can cut per year. But he produces a value of 2 (33%) per cutted log in the current version.

The calculation per year for a forester (worker) is about 100 log. Thats a worth of 600 to buy 600 grain. Thats a good business. The trader is to be included but i think it works.

And yes, steel tools are the best export product and it is fitting to the nordic theme. My calculation for tools was: 0.5 log (value 6) + 0.5 iron (value 12) = 9 + 33% profit = 12. Steel Tool has 200% use value and so 200% trade value (24) is fair. Thats the Hit that you found out because: 0.5 log (6) + 0.5 iron (12) + 0.5 coal (6) = 12 to 24 = 100% profit!

The brewery and alcohol is unchanged. Plums should have a value of 2. I will fix it. Thanks for finding this "bug". All fruits have 2 because they are more difficult to produce and it fills the gap of trade values ​​to protein. Grain and vegetables 1, fruits 2 and protein 3. Except fish. I canceled it because of compatibility with NMT. Redketchup defined a value of 2 for salted fish e.g. That would be useless if raw fish has a value of 3. But it needs more testing with NMT.

Interesting what you found out to agriculture. Maybe I should make it a bit harder on harsh. ;D

Do you have a picture of a swedish barn? I have no idea what it looks like.

Online Nilla

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2016, 04:51:29 PM »

How you calculate the profit of 400 per chopper? I don't know exactly how much log a chopper can cut per year. But he produces a value of 2 (33%) per cutted log in the current version.


I counted that a good chopper produces 800 firewood each year. He makes 4 wood (worth 8 ) from each log (worth 6). That is a profit of 0,5 for each firewood 800*0,5=400. Of cause it will be less if you have to order the wood or if the chopper is bad located.

In a normal game I never produce steel tools, so I don't have much experience of annual production. So far I produced about 150 tools each year (but had some distribution problems with the coal, so it might get higher). The same math as firewoods gives a profit of 1800 each year. That might be a little high, but OK if you compare it with wool clothes with about the same yearly production; 1 wool (worth 5) gives 1 coat (worth 15). A yearly profit of 1500. Again; if you have to order the raw material the profit is less.

I attach some pictures of Swedish barns. Often the barns are built together with the housing for animals, that might have a part made of stones (or brick).


Online Nilla

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Re: Nordic Landscape
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2016, 04:59:56 PM »
I remember that I have some pictures of my house and also a part of my barn. The house is basically old (built before 1850) but have been modernized many times (from us and the ownres before) so it doesn't really fit as a model. I also have a picture of my village. A bit small but there are several houses and barns in this fashion.

I will be gone a couple of days but will go on playing this game next weekend.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 05:04:07 PM by Nilla »