Author Topic: The North - Help...  (Read 9401 times)

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Offline Paeng

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The North - Help...
« on: October 27, 2016, 10:45:06 AM »
Sorry, I don't get the trading with Dalers and Pennings... I built a General Trader (one from Kid's RowHouse Mod) - so a trader comes and offers me daler and penning, so I buy some (which at 100 a shot is pretty nasty for a very young village   ;D ) All the traders that follow have nothing nut daler and pennings... Hmmm? How or from whom do I buy products with my expensive dalers? When I put them back in the trade port, I get a warning that I'm low on money, so obviously that's not it - I feel so dense...  :o


And a question about the reindeer hunter - it says in the mouseover to watch over the deer population, does that mean one can kill off the population? If so, what are the margins?

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Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 12:25:40 PM »
You should not bother about the warning of running low on money. It has no importance! All merchants who sell things take daler. If you have the latest version, it's even an advantage to pay with daler; barter trader pay less for your goods. Just keep them in the port. I use to set a limit of some 100 daler and I seldom have any in my stores. Only if I have several ports, I use to have a small store to distribute the dalers between the ports. (but the merchants arrive often in the North, so it takes a long time until you really need more than 1)

I'm not sure, that you really can kill of a whole population totally, but if you hunt too hard, the herds will be very small and it takes time until they grow big again. You can see it in the herders cabin too. If you put more than 1 herdsman in the cabin, the first years they kill more animals. After some years, 3 herdsmen kill less deer than 1,and you can see that the herds are small.

I have always forgotten to ask @Tom Sawyer to set the number of herdsmen to 1 from the start. It's OK if you could increase it to 2 but 3 is too much. It makes no sense.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 12:56:47 PM »
It's a bit random but about 30% are export merchants who only want to buy something, 40% are food importers, 20% bring goods and 10% seeds and livestock.

It is possible to kill off a whole herd with a lot of hunters, but then a few animals will arrive in this area next year. So reindeer can not become extinct. But as Nilla said, it takes time until the herd provides food again and a small settlement could come in trouble.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 01:21:40 PM »
I have always forgotten to ask @Tom Sawyer to set the number of herdsmen to 1 from the start. It's OK if you could increase it to 2 but 3 is too much. It makes no sense.

That's a good hint and changed to default = 1 in version 4.1.

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 03:23:22 PM »
All merchants who sell things take daler.

Wait... are you saying there ARE traders with different goods? My, I must have a really bad spell - so far, every single trader that came into my port was only dealing dalers (usually 100 dalers and about 40 pennings), after more than 20 of those loooooong years  ;)
It's about to kill my town, as I have no food whatsoever coming in, while producing plenty food is very hard in The North, at least in the early stages...

And after reading the wiki I really thought that's how it goes, all it says is "to get goods from the outside world you must have dalers" - well, glad to hear that sooner or later a boat with food will arrive, hopefully before everyone starved... damn RNG  >:(



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but if you hunt too hard, the herds will be very small and it takes time until they grow big again.

Ah, I'm good then... I never abuse my herds, and never use more than 1 herdsman either... just started to worry because venison and salmon are all that keep my peeps floating, even if in bad health...  :)



It's a bit random

Well, beats me - I had a 100% of nothing but dalers and pennings... completely threw me  :)


Other than that, kudos to you - so far all the chains are working nicely, and I love the visuals, down to all the little icons. The mine looks great, too... can't wait to finally get some boatloads to start building the brickworks and stuff...  :)
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Offline brads3

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 03:33:49 PM »
Nilla built that dam blocked the river. u get noooo boats.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 04:17:48 PM »
I did a test with the small town general trader. My first merchants were 1 export and 2 food merchants. As I said, 30%.^^ The rest is up to the game. You probably had extreme bad luck. If you are using Kids small town traders you can build the dock for building materials to get your first bricks. Maybe a specialized food trader would be great in the small town mod. Especially for Paeng. ;D
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 04:19:56 PM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2016, 03:31:58 AM »
Maybe a specialized food trader would be great in the small town mod.

Definitely  ;D ... CC has one, so I didn't check that there is none in the small town mod(s)...  :-[


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build the dock for building materials to get your first bricks

Is that the onlyway to get initial bricks? I was wondering about that chain - build a clay pit to make bricks, but need bricks to build a clay pit...  :o   :)

* ugh, and that claypit empties awfully fast - just 1 (!) worker and after a couple of years I'm already down to less than 50%... so it's either riddling the ground with plenty (non-removable?) pits, or continue importing bricks?

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Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 03:58:41 AM »
Now I know the secret about the merchants: The one with daler all came to you @Paeng , not to me. I had the port almost 10 years until one arrived.  ::)

And I do agree; the clay pit empties really fast.

I'm really looking forward to see how your settlement will look like. What can the master of city builders make with this so good looking stuff.


Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 04:15:42 AM »
Now I know the secret about the merchants: The one with daler all came to you @Paeng , not to me.

Ohhhh... I'm so sorry Nilla!  ;)


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I'm really looking forward to see how your settlement will look like.

Yeah, me too... since I went a considerable time without access to bricks, I resorted to the old block houses (by Raging Nonsense) - they mix in quite well, too... I'll see if I can pull out of the earlier building follies...  ;D

And thanks for the flowers!  :)
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2016, 11:04:22 AM »
Quote from: Paeng
Definitely  ;D ...

Then we have an official suggestion for a small town food trader @kid1293 :)

Quote from: Paeng
Is that the only way to get initial bricks?

You can get the initial bricks from the vanilla or any general trading post. The specialized dock is a nice way to get it faster and without random. The first bricks have to be bought because the settlement has to acquire the new technology of brickmaking. It creates a kind of time line with bricks as tier2 material and brick architecture as a new period with more efficient buildings. It removes the principle of being able to build everything from beginning, which makes the game very flat. And the simple wooden and stone houses are still useful in the early game and not simply replaced. One can like it or not but this is the idea behind it.

Quote from: Paeng
... that claypit empties awfully fast

Maybe we find a new balance for the clay pit. In this version it follows these numbers: You get 2000 clay from a pit with 10 x 8 tiles. Enough clay for 100 cottages or about 400 people. A worker mines about 100 clay in a year (enough for 5 cottages) and needs 20 years to empty a pit. That means 3 workers in pits provide the clay for 1 brickmaker. The same ratio like iron processing, where 3 miners produce the ore for 1 smelter. The land consumption of a clay pit is 1 tile for 25 clay (20 with the small pit). This is 100% more efficient than a vanilla quarry, where you get only 12 stone from a tile. This is underpowered and a reason why nobody use a quarry. The Nordic quarry gives 50 stone/tile and is about 100% deeper than a clay pit with 25 clay/tile. I had in mind that you should have to build up a brickyard with a few clay pits, storage yards etc. like on the picture for a town with about 2000 inhabitants. But this is only theory. :)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 11:21:26 AM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline kid1293

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 02:13:08 PM »
Does it work with a tiny food trader?

storage:            int _volumeLimit = 25000;
flags:
         RawMaterialFlags _sellFlags = Edible | Fruit | Vegetable | Grain | Protein;
         RawMaterialFlags _wantFlags = Tool | Health | Edible | Textile | Clothing | Alcohol | Fruit | Vegetable | Grain | Protein;
         RawMaterialFlags _buyFlags = Wood | Stone | Iron | Fuel;

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 02:28:59 PM »

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It removes the principle of being able to build everything from beginning

Yeah, that's definitely cool... I did realize after some time that I need relatively small amounts of clay/brick/tiles to build the advanced housing... though to depend on the RNG is tough - that bad spell with the daler_only traders followed me through this whole play-through... like a curse  :)

I finally had to trash this attempt (sorry Nilla, no pics  :'( )... the problems just piled up - not the mod's fault, but my current lack of knowledge about it... I'm not used to play firewood economies, not my game at all, I always hoard my wood as if it's gold... LOL.

So I severely underestimated the need for (huge) storage areas for logs and firewood, which led to loads of idling without any production at all, which finally tore everything down... I could have denuded huge patches of forest to build the piles and warehouses, but it would have been haphazard at best, not planned...  :-\

This mod has quite a learning curve...  ;)


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Maybe we find a new balance for the clay pit.  [... snip ...] I had in mind that you should have to build up a brickyard with a few clay pits, storage yards etc. like on the picture for a town with about 2000 inhabitants. But this is only theory. :)

Yeah, it will have to meet best conditions, and kinda precludes selling any manufactured bricks or tiles, e.g. to tide you over when the traders forget about you... have you considered making them upgradable? My horror vision is a landscape scarred by numerous pits (aside the lost real estate)...  ;)

Oh, and those traders - some of them gave me murder phantasies - I mean, they want as much for a handful of berries as for a whole side of venison (6 bucks)...  Well, Nilla said that pretty much gets evened out once you pile up some dalers, I just have not gotten far enough to do that (piling them up, I mean)...  ;D
But at first sight that greed really made me angry... more than the cold...  :)


Also, sorry to say - but that age mod does not agree with me at all... so slow, and all these 60-year old guys shacking up with students... tsk, tsk... could you please! write a little override to turn this back to "normal" (which would then make it optional)?

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 04:43:46 PM »
I definitely don't want a moonscape. For a normal use of the brickyard, it should have a typical dimension and it should look reasonable. Not a big town, conjured from a tiny clay pit. And no desert for a village. A clay/brick industry would be a different thing. I know a historical brickworks. There are big old clay pits surrounding the brickyard and it's a very special landscape. So if someone wants to make a brick export empire, it would also have natural consequences. Upgrades not because there are no building costs. If we need more clay from the pits I would simply increase the maximum amount.

And yeah, these merchants are bastards. Greedy and picky, and often unpunctual.^^

In 4.0 there is no change of the citizen.rsc. I will always keep it vanilla like, to let the player choose. If so, please reload the mod. There was a mistake I have fixed before I released it.

@kid1293 These flags would not work in the North but it's not a problem. I think its a good way to make it work in vanilla and CC and the North overwrites it. Same flags for CC and the North is not possible. I would prefer a small town trader to complete these specialized docks but a tiny one is great, too. Your decision. :)

Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 04:52:33 PM »
I finally had to trash this attempt (sorry Nilla, no pics  :'( )... the problems just piled up - not the mod's fault, but my current lack of knowledge about it... I'm not used to play firewood economies, not my game at all, I always hoard my wood as if it's gold... LOL.

So I severely underestimated the need for (huge) storage areas for logs and firewood, which led to loads of idling without any production at all, which finally tore everything down... I could have denuded huge patches of forest to build the piles and warehouses, but it would have been haphazard at best, not planned...  :-\

I'm sorry, too. For not seeing any pictures and of cause for your trouble.

But firewood economics???? The North??? Not at all, to my experience. OK, it's cold so the houses need firewood, that's true, but no big stores, more a continuously collecting/chopping. You also need some to make charcoal, that you need for tool production and you have to store your charcoal, ironore and clay on piles, but huge piles, no need for that.




This mod has quite a learning curve...  ;)

I can agree on that. This mod changes the gameplay a lot. And it doesn't make it easier! ;)



Oh, and those traders - some of them gave me murder phantasies - I mean, they want as much for a handful of berries as for a whole side of venison (6 bucks)...  Well, Nilla said that pretty much gets evened out once you pile up some dalers, I just have not gotten far enough to do that (piling them up, I mean)...  ;D
But at first sight that greed really made me angry... more than the cold...  :)
 

The trade something quite different with this mod. @Tom Sawyer has a very special idea about trade prices; Easy to get (fish); cheap, more rare and hard to store (fruit) expensive; everything else; somewhere in between. I don't mind. Not at all! I find it interesting. You have to plan much more carefully, what you want to buy and how you'll produce the rest. There are also no such overpowered producers like vanilla wood choppers or brewers. You have to concider thoroughly, what you want to sell and I can tell you; in all my Nordic games, the export goods have changed over time.