Author Topic: The North - Help...  (Read 1989 times)

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Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 05:17:23 PM »
for your trouble

Nah, no trouble...  :)
Just some starting confusion... well, actually this attempt was a total fail - about as bad as my first attempt at vanilla Banished back then... LOL


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But firewood economics?

Well, compared to my style, it felt like that...
Will probably change when I understand the mechanics better  :)


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Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2016, 12:16:19 PM »
As an experienced North woman, I think, I will use this thread to encourage and promote the North mod! I can assure you; it's really worth a try!

The new version 4 is better than ever. You can almost say; it's a new game. So, be bold! Forget about the truths and tricks you've learned by playing Banished and get into a new adventure up North!

This might be a spoiler for some, who likes to discover things themselves, but I will give you some advice for a successful start.

Choice of map and settings

Don't be ashamed, even if you're an experienced player, to choose a mild climate. It's easier to learn the gameplay, if you don't have to struggle with bad harvests and freezing people.
I would choose one of the new maps; a small vast forest map or a medium lake map. Choose the start condition you normally prefere.

I wouldn't use too many other mods for the first attempt. It's possible to add a lot of other mods but I would start quite pure.

First steps

Open the menu "Actions and removal tools". There are several new icons. Many are very useful, especially at the beginning. Use the small hunter to hunt close reindeer, send your people out in the woods; to collect firewood in winter and wild food in summer (grows only in summer), use the small fisher and woodchopper.

Prepare early for tool production. It's a more complicated production chain. Iron ore -> iron bloom -> iron -> iron tools, every step needs charcoal and if you want steeltools, there's one more step.

Farming

Choose the right crops. Not everything will grow. You have potatoes from the start on every level except impossible. That's the best growing vegetable, cabbage and beans work as well. Apples are the best fruit. Cherries, plums and pears will work, too. Don't try anything else, if you want a good harvest. You might get some wheat in a mild climate but never a good harvest. Always be well ahead planting new orchards. They take longer to grow in this climate. (Note; this is only true, if no values from the crops are changed from the latest version)

If you play on "harsh" you have to start the harvest manually, on "fair" I recommend it but on "mild", it works also without a manual start.

Trade

Here you really have to forget everything from vanilla Bansihed.

There are partly new merchants, who arrive more often.

The prices are very much changed. Don't think you can put 100 firewood in the port and buy 400 apples. No way! If you order apples, I think you'll need 400 firewood for 100 apples.

The merchants want to live on their trade. The prices at the port are what things cost, if you want to buy. You will get less, if you sell them for other goods. You might get the selling price, if you wait for the right merchant; one of the export merchants, who brings coins. But no export merchant pays a higher price for everything, just for the things he/she wants!

Coins are introduced. You'll need them to buy animals and seeds. You can use them, to get the the best price for your goods.

There's no "best trading good", like firewood in vanilla Banished. You can sell a lot of different things. At the beginning my main export goods are logs and venison, later in the game; steel tools, clothes and beer. But I also sell other things, I have a surplus of; herbs, mushrooms, salmon, charcoal, mutton, reindeer furs..... if I play on mild, I would concider apples. Take your pick!

What make sense to buy? Barley, enough bricks and rooftiles to build a brickmaker, sheep, potato- and apple seeds (if you don't have them from start). In my present game, I also buy vegetables, wool, clay, and some iron ore. 

Good luck out in the Nordic wilderness!!




Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2016, 12:56:50 PM »
Nice little guide, it will surely help "first-timers"...  :)

Well, my second attempt went a lot better - I survived the first ten years, which was quite a struggle, but I think I'm over the hill. Health is still down, don't have much food variety yet, and my 'taters keep freezing, but now I got enough peeps to set 2 farmers to a field  ;)

Metal production is well on the way, just built my first trade post and the first bridge across the stream - soon my bricks empire will rise  ;D


Here is what the village looks like after 10 years, population ~70 -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012419/Banished/the_north/new01.jpg
The North - Help...


 :)
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Offline Gatherer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2016, 01:38:02 PM »
Two quick questions @Nilla

What is best to sell to get coins and best to buy with coins? Is it finished goods for dalers and then dalers for food?
Fiat panis

Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2016, 02:09:59 PM »
The second question is easy; what you buy with coins; Anything you want. If you want to buy some animals or seed (the only thing you really need them for) save enough to be able to buy, what you want. Otherwise I get rid of them as fast as I can. As I said, I mainly buy food.

The first question is harder to answer; But I primary sell the goods, they pay more for. Some pay more for finished goods (tools, clothing), others for food and alcohol (beer, venison, salmon, mushroom), some also more for logs. If they still have daler left when I've sold these goods, I look into my stores to see, if I have very much of something, I have in my port. In that case, I sell that for daler, too, just to save space in my storage.

Offline Gatherer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2016, 02:23:48 PM »
Thanks for the answers. I will definitely try the North mod in the near future. Right now I'm still busy with my current town. By the time I'm finished with it I have no doubt that North version 5 will be already out.
Fiat panis

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2016, 06:04:36 AM »
Well, I'm over the worst with regards to food, though it "swings" in enormous arcs - sometimes I drop from 11K food down to a few hundred  :o  Deeply dependant on the traders coming in when I have stuff to trade, halfway decent harvests (still on 'taters and apples, freezing away quite often), venison (which is also rather irregular, swings between 100 and 500 per hunter/season)...

Plus I had some unexpected setbacks - built a mill and baker (Embx) just to find out that he needs salt for his recipes - huh?

My traders are still totally screwy - this time around I have the opposite problem - hardly any arrive with dalers, I had 2 in 30 years (!)... I have 3 ports, general and builders from Kid and food from Disc, but yeah... built one more to get sheep, realized he takes dalers only... duh...

Another thing I don't get a handle on is clothes (coats) - all the hunters (I use Kid's, three of them) only produce reindeer fur, I have not found another way to make coats... so I'm stuck at 30% clothed... hoping to get dalers and sheep soon.

I'm good on tools, food is okay (lacking grain in a bad way though), pop is up to ~130, but right now I can't really advance...  ???
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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2016, 09:57:06 AM »
should use choo choo, it is more constant
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Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2016, 10:37:29 AM »
@Paeng , you can make reindeer coats. Work like warm coats. Maybe you use a modded version of a tailor, that's not adapted to the North. In that case, I recommend to build a vanilla tailor.

I don't know what climate you use. But especially, if you're playing on fair or harsh, I would recommend to start the harvest manually (if you're not already do this). Less will freeze that way and often the crop stops growing anyhow because it's too cold, before the automatic harvest starts.

I will also strongly recommend to build a vanilla trading port. There is a very big and important difference between them and the small from Kid (I haven't used the one from Disc, yet so I can't say how it is) . With the vanilla port the merchants arrive much more often. I had no big trouble to support over 900 people to 100% with grain and vegetables and grain for I think 7 breweries with 4 ports.

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2016, 01:57:25 PM »
you can make reindeer coats.

I know, and I did - they seem very costly though (?)... or else I was just too timid sending out hunters, weary of "over-hunting"...

Anyway, I finally got sheep (after almost 40 years), and all my problems vanished... with the wool I was able to make coats quickly and in "normal" quantities, so that's solved.

After that my whole production, population and house-building got back on track, I got out of the old-age-death slumps, and my town is starting to feel the way it should...  :D

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Less will freeze

Yeah, I got the right proportions now... I just hate losing anything to a freeze, had to adjust my field-sizes a few times...  :)
Now I can afford seeds, but I'm not too hot on the choices you mentioned - potatoes, beans and cabbage - that's kinda boring (visually)... and what about grain, which do you recommend? In v4.1 there will be wheat and rye, I think... 

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I will also strongly recommend to build a vanilla trading port

I was on the verge of doing just that a couple of times, glad I didn't... I don't want merchants to come more often, that just breaks my immersion, dong dong dong, drives me nuts  ;D ... I'd rather have them come less often, but have a large capacity - the small ports are cool, but too small... after a while one ends up again spamming the waterfront with numerous ports (or even building vanilla ports, just for the cap)...  :(

Also, I like to produce all food-groups on my own, and then just import occasional loads to fill up my storage... and I like to process food (for higher food value for my peeps, not for export), so I'm looking forward to bakers, and hopefully also butchers, saltery and such...



should use choo choo, it is more constant

Yeah, for this play-through I stayed away from the big mods yet, I wanted to learn the North's "defaults" first...  :)
But choo choo is up next for sure...  ;)
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Offline Nilla

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 02:56:29 PM »
I don't know which climate you play, but unless you play mild, no grain will grow and if I remember right, even in a mild climate, wheat grows medium good and corn not at all. But it's bin a while since I tested on mild, so I might remember it wrong.

And to the boring vegetable; again unless you play mild, I wouldn't try any other crops than potatoes, bean and cabbage. On mild some of the others might give some harvest, but some doesn't grow at all.

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 03:13:27 PM »
Actually I'm playing Nordic Valley, medium size, fair, medium start...
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2016, 03:34:03 PM »
The vanilla trading post attracts about 2 merchants in a year, depending on the map. More than the small and tiny traders, but they work also well, especially if combined to a trading post with more docks and because of building material or livestock on demand.

A reindeer coat is made from a fur from a deer. If an uneducated tailor does not waste anything. The best choice in early game. To make warm clothes from wool is also not easy going. The Wiki is now up to date. :)

I have not testet the Cho Cho mod in the North. Would be an experiment but it can be that it works. As far as I know the coins are in the same flag.

Offline Paeng

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2016, 03:55:36 PM »
A reindeer coat is made from a fur from a deer.

Yeah, clear... however, when I had only 70 peeps, 4 hunters and 2 tailors (all educated) could only cloth 30% of my pop... that seemed very low. 1 or 2 hunters and 1 tailor should be more than enough for 70 peeps... (with leather coats, not warm coats!)

« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 03:58:06 PM by Paeng »
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: The North - Help...
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2016, 05:42:00 PM »
That can not be. A tailor makes up to 200 coats in a year, enough for 800 people. I think it's too fast. And 4 hunters take at least 20 animals per year, coats for 80 peps. With active hunting you can make a lot more hides. And hunting is important in early game. So why only 1-2 for 70 peps? This would not work because of food. The coats come more by the way. But each game is different.

A result of your game could be, that we should give the sheep also in a medium start. The player should have an option to start as a "farmer" but without this pre-built village. What about new start conditions for different play styles, like:

- Villager (pre-built houses and barn)
- Farmer (comes with a cart full of seed potatoes, apples and a few sheep)
- Hunter (tools and clothing but no farm stuff)
- Survivor (impossible start with nothing)