Author Topic: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village  (Read 672 times)

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Offline Nilla

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I wrote this morning, that I might blog a little about my attempts on the DS-Small Village. And here we are! I will again tell you about, how I managed to kill some unfortunate Bannis .  :-[ ::)  :'(

DS Small Village has different difficulties.

1. New maps. There is one: DSSV Mountain Lakes, that caught my interest. For sure you can believe @Discrepancy when he writes in the description: "...a difficult, near un-inhabitable map....". Not much land to use here. Got to try that. ;D
2. More climate options. As an experienced Nordic woman of cause, I had to try the "extreme".  :-\
3. Starting options. There are a lot of new starting options. The ones that stands out as extra difficult are "Stranded" and "Jack and Jill". If you read the description "Stranded" is one family with a little supply, parents are educated. "Jack and Jill", the ultimate challenge, a couple with no supply what so ever and they are uneducated. I decided to wait with this very hard last challenge and choose "Stranded". Now it was shown that the stranded people didn't bring any supply after all. (Bug?)

When I test new larger mods, I use to test them quite "pure" witout using many other mods. So I did here, too. I just loaded the nice new Russian house from @Tom Sawyer. Just wanted to take a closer look at it and one more house doesn't change the gameplay.

If you choose the DSSV Mountain Lakes you might have to try some maps before you find one worth an attempt. Would you have tried the start position on my first picture? I didn't. I'm not sure there is any stone at all, that they could reach, without building bridges or tunnels!  :o But the next map didn't seem impossible, so I started the game.

HM.... What are the first steps? From my Nordic adventures, I've learned, that people freeze faster, than they starve to death. In this extreme climate I guess. that they will not survive the spring in ragged clothes without a house and the house must be heated to give warmth! Is it possible to build a house and a woodcutter and cut a few firewood before they freeze to death with only two adults? I looked to see how much building material there would be needed and saw that 29 logs and 8 stones would be necessary for the least expensive buildings. No way, that  2 "tool less" people could manage this fast enough. I did try, but I was right; a family of 4 miserably froze to death!

As far as I can see, the combination "stranded" with no supply or "Jack and Jill" and "Extreme" climate is not possible to play without additional mods. I'm not talking about cheat mods, that would be stupid in a challenging game. I'm talking about mods with small very, cheap houses/tents. I think @kralyerg made one with mini buildings and as far as I remember @RedKetchup also made a tent. I didn't find any of these mods yesterday, so I choose another possibility: Swallow the pride and play on mild!  :-\

A new game; again the first starting position would have been impossible, nothing but mountains close, the same with the next, the third however looked quite good. So what now? They will not freeze to death on mild but they will need some food. The big difference between this mod and the North is, that there are no buttons for instant gathering, hunting, fishing. I wanted it different from the North, so I choose not to load any mod with these possibilities. What are the cheapest food production and the cheapest storage? I tried the jetty fisher and the small jetty storage, together 29 logs, 1 stone.

They managed to produce the building material, they managed to build the fisher and the storage but they starved to death before they could catch any fish. I tried three times. The second time I tried to work a bit faster and more efficient but it wasn't fast enough. Both parents went fishing but without tools; no fish was caught before the whole family starved to death; again! I decided to try another map where the trees were closer to the place I choose for my fisher, same result! This time they had no children and the woman just caught a fish as they both died!(the stupid husband was walking around looking for food, instead of helping)  :'(

I know, fishing is no good with tool less people. So I decided to add the forest outpost from @kid1293 and start with the small gatherer. Just in case, I also loaded his raw house mod.

I liked the map I used for my last fishing attempt with a childless couple (less mouths to feed for a start) so I recycled it. I wasn't sure, if I wanted to build the smaller cheaper jetty storage or a small barn close to the gatherer. The barn would need more building material but with two construction sites apart from eachother, there will for sure be a lot uncontrolled walk between them, so barn it was. The buildings were finished in time. The starvation sign popped up for a brief time as they both(!) were carrying food to the store. It worked. They survived! :D.......for now.......

Stupid enough, I let them collect some food for the stores. Than I realized that "Winter's coming"; they will need a house. Unfortunately I started too late. The house was built alright, also some wood chopped. The man who has chopped the wood went inside, got warm and survived. The stupid woman however; instead of hurrying home as soon as the house got warm, she had to collect some forgotten mushrooms in the forests and froze to death!  :'(

Luckily, I made a save as the gatherer and the barn were done, so I didn't have to start from the beginning. The next attempt went well. I started a bit earlier to build the house and they both survived. As next there will be tools!  :D

Pictures

1. Would you have tried this map?

2. This looks better

3. Worse done?

Offline kid1293

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2016, 10:06:41 AM »
You are a cruel lady!  ;D

With these conditions you may find yourself stranded and
without food before your bannies survive.  ;)

I admit it is very nice reading but I don't want to be there.
Didn't Tom release a separate fly-fishing mod?

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2016, 12:20:50 PM »
As we know, it is a lot of fun for her to torment little poor banished people. I'm really glad to read something new by Nilla. I missed that. ;D

Yes Kid, fly-fishing is a single mod. But Nilla wants the cruelty pure. And it would not really help. Fishing without tools is just a slow death. The hunting tool would be a better choice.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2016, 01:48:56 PM »
i think you need several mods.the mini set has a small rickety storage,the tent,small hunter,gatherer,etc. plus TOM"S trout fishing.now add the blacksmith so you have wood or stone and log tools to get you a start. i have the buildings from DS but under my CC. i havent tried the start settings. would be curious to see ihe DS and NORTH could be used together.
  i realize you are fighting the climate. with an adam and eve start, i set 1 to builder start a food spot be it hunter or fishing and let the laborer start clearing for the house. once the food spot is finihsed i swap the laborer to that. by then there is materials for the builder to use. but again with the mini mod or mods even,you have wood cutters and tool sheds that fits the situation of less workers. these are very helpful mods even with the CC. with CC i have a limit on iron at the start.have iron ore to gather but only 40 iron at start. it takes time to build up to process the iron.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2016, 03:43:01 PM »
I've tested it @brads3. North on top: DS buildings are working in the Nordic gameplay (making reindeer coats etc.) but no DS starting conditions available. DS on top: DS starting conditions but not adapted (no coats from deer using DS Tailor and so on). Probably the same conflict like DS + CC. It is basically always the same. If you change more than adding new buildings and resources, the mod is going to be incompatible with CC or with another theme-mod like the North. Therefore, the procedure to start a new game is: First selecting the theme and then matching building mods and other additions. The question is in this case, what DSSV2 is. A building-mod or a new theme-mod?

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2016, 04:39:06 PM »
i dont think DS knows what he is either.lol i use the buildings have not tried the other way. i do wish CC was able to work like this thou. where you keep the buildings and the production chains but could change the start to a different mod theme.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 04:42:34 AM »
I'm glad, that some of you appreciate my little rewiev. :)

And I admit, I like it cruel for my poor Bannies! That's the reason, I didn't load more mods, that makes the game easier than necessary. In fact, I find it a pity, that such difficulties like this start disappears pretty soon. But I must confess, I'm not quite consequent: I made it a bit easier than necessary by using the little workshop from the Forest outpost. Of cause it makes sense. It will be big enough for a long time with the few people I'll have to support. But it's cheap, fast built and can produce the basic stuff: iron tools and leather coats. So it is a bit "cheaty" for a hard game!  :-\

I'm now in year 12. It was never again critical; near starvation or freezing. But it took almost until now, before I could feel safe. If you look at the storage on the first picture from year 6, you may see, that it's not big. As usual,  I built a school early. The first child stayed uneducated. It wasn't really a deliberate choice; I rather forgot to build the school in time. It is possible to educate all of the children, when you start with just one couple, but maybe I wouldn't have done it here anyway. It is a struggle to get all the job done with only one worker, when the second adult is "locked up" as teacher. And one uneducated doesn't make all too much harm.

The following part is for @Discrepancy:
I've found a few "oddities". I know it's a beta, and I hope you want to know all my thoughts, also the critical. Take it for what it is: Just one opinion.

I do like the idea of the small cemetery; it's small and could be built without any stones. In a normal game, I never concider a cemetery at the beginning of a game; there are so many other, more important things, that need the few available stones. This opens new possibilities. Maybe, if you want it more realistic (to build without any stones) you could replace the gravestones with simple wooden crosses (or some other not christian symbol, if you prefere that). But look at the picture. The gate look weird; hanging in the air. I did squeeze it in between the hills (not many other options on a map like this). There is room for a road in front of it, so I really don't understand why it looks this way.

I built a fish monger. It doesn't seem to work the way, I thought it would, reading the description. I thought it would take some fish, that a normal fisher catches and "sort out" the different species. But as it looks, it works without input. I don't really mind about that, but I guess it would be more realistic, if the fish that's sorted comes from somewhere. I like the idea of different values for different species but do we really need 10(?) different kind of fish? I find the half would be enough. (And from where does cod and other see fishes come?) The output isn't very big. My fishmonger may not have the best location and my only uneducated person, lives close, but the annual production wasn't more than about 125 sorted fish. The average value of the sorted fish might be 2. Without input, it's an annual profit of 250. Much less than a normal fisher. I would prefere, if it was about the same. In that case it would make sense to use. I want it to, because it do look nice. At least if I had used it in a "proper" way. I built it on a steep shore (there's lot of them on this map) and the house looks a bit weird, dug into the hill. I guess, there isn't much to do about that, if you want them to be buildable on the shore, as well as on water. Maybe just an appeal to the good taste of the "user".  ;) (Quite useless on me  :-[ ;D)

I had to try @Tom Sawyerīs new Russian house. As always; it looks nice. I find it quite big compared to other houses but maybe it's right. I know nothing about Russian houses, so this kind of building may usually be big.

Pictures

1. The settlement in year 6

2. The settlement in year12

3. Small cemetery with flying gate

4. Slope built fish monger


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 09:55:00 AM »
I think this type of Russian house is not big. I tried to make it true to the original, but did not have exact dimensions. And it is of course adapted to game tiles. It is 4.3 x 7.4 meters and reproduced from this one. What dimensions would you appreciate by the picture?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 11:33:25 AM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2016, 04:16:45 PM »
It's a nice house and you made a very good model of it. I don't think it's very big either. About the size of the small Swedish stuga. Your estimated 4,3*7,4 m  seems reasonably. The problem is, that most houses in Banished are "smallish". If we look at the vanilla wood/stone house and compare it to a person; it's very small. Many modded houses are even smaller, like the small DSSV- and kids raw houses. And if you build your Russian house next to some of these, it looks very big. I don't mind houses of different sizes. It's good that not everything looks alike. On another map, where it's not so close together with other very small buildings on a small space, I probably wouldn't have found it that big.

The footprint is also a bit bigger than the vanilla and the Nordic house and double the size of the DSSV- houses, so sorry on this small map, it has to be replaced with two smaller house. But I'm sure, when I return to the North, that I will use them, at least until I have any bricks to build my favorite red houses.

Online Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 01:42:18 AM »
 :) thanks for all the testing and great feedback @Nilla

Sorry I have taken a while to respond, hectic life right now.
I must also apologize as I will be a little absent from the forums for the next week. I might be able to read, but not answer. But don't take that as if I'm not interested in the feedback, because I am. :)  I always enjoy reading the blogs you post. I'm not sure when my internet will be changed over, this could be a bonus as I'll be able to focus on modding a little when I'm on the computer.

also, I am going to post much of the part below on the DS Small Village discussion page...

First off, this is going to be a long post...

What's next?

I might lower the variety of fish, or offer alternate download versions with all fish, or only half of them.

Quote
The question is in this case, what DSSV2 is. A building-mod or a new theme-mod?
answering @Tom Sawyer & @brads3 , yes, you are right  :o I don't really know what DS Small Village has become, or where it is going. All the changes I have planned I don't think should be apart of it....
???
basically I am just going along with the ride, taking in suggestions & ideas, and coming up with my own. This is going to be huge.... it already is for me, to navigate all the files and keep up with changes I make.
So you are right when you say: "i dont think DS knows what he is either.", and I'm guessing that to be 'I don't know what DSSV as a mod is to be?'
Well you are right. But it isn't going to be DS Small Village v2...   all of the upcoming betas of v2 will end up becoming a much broader, varied mod that will be a single mod with all my other mods together. And so in a way, regarding start conditions, etc, it won't be compatible to The North or CC, but it should still be able to be used, with them if placed below in the mod list.

So... when will v2 proper of DS Small Village be released? Once I finish building my own version of every vanilla building, plus have at least 1 variant or texture variant of each building...  ;D ... maybe.


@kid1293 warned me about this, a long time ago...  ;)




anyway,

- I have fixed the mistake in the start condition Stranded, that was my fault, the fix will be a part of the next beta release, which I hope will happen just after Christmas.
    - also fixes to most of the other bugs/issues (I have a list on the mod discussion page)

Also I hope to have finalized:
    - all starting conditions will be changed slightly, Stranded is going to be split into 3 versions: Stranded (one family + small inventory) , Stranded Hard (2 families + very small inventory, only enough supplies for one family) & Stranded Harder (2 families with nothing)
    - all starts will have slightly revised inventories and start buildings (apart from Jack & Jill and Stranded Harder both will still start with nothing).
    - I am also going to include a way to gather, hunt and fish quicker. But they won't be by the click of a button, for example you will need Fishing Gear to fish from the river bank, 8 Fishing Gear costs 3 log + 1 iron, these are easily built by the Village/Jetty Workshop or Blacksmith for some things. Also needed is Hunting Gear (same price as fishing gear), and Gathering Bowls (1 log  = 5 bowls), the Workshop will easily and quickly produce these simple items, the village workshop will come ready built on some starts, or is easily built for 8 logs and 1 stone.
    - Most easier starts will include all the resources to gather, fish & hunt in the storage barn. (they will be classed as textiles - why? because it is already stored in a barn, and if you had fishing gear, hunting gear etc, you wouldn't want it out in the weather. plus no changes to resource flags).
    - all of the new fish will have higher trade value prices.
also...
- a small tent (with F variants) that sits on 2x2, the tent will cost 2 leather + 1 log + 8 work
- a small primitive wooden shelter, also sits on 2x2, this will cost 5 log + 8 work
- the Village Inn, for temporary accommodation with f-key variants. cost 55 log + 13 stone + 89 work
- small 2x1 fishing spots, that catch all the different kinds of fish. They are all slightly slower than a normal fisherman, who catches more 'Fish' as he just keeps whatever fish he catches, whereas these fisherman will take time to catch the right fish and let the others go, and will have a higher trade value.
- a jetty seafood grill, that will turn some of the fish into varied meals of value and also a diverse diet.
- jetty decorative seating areas & other deco jetty pieces (yes, @Paeng & @elemental , I have at least 1 boat for now)
- larger village barns and jetty storage sheds.
- a different apiary building - more out of village-farm style.
- village tavern for alcohol & luxuries service, and accompanying brewery and kitchen.

what else?
-- well for a few months I have been holding onto a few different crops, they still require a few model & texture alterations, but I'm getting there... they are: Lentils, Zucchini/Courgette & Buckwheat.
-- Also I have an Almond tree based upon the example fig tree, but I'm still trying to get it to work correctly (it will have blossom for all of growing season, I wish it was different).
-- A Birch Forester, or a Birch Plantation/Orchard: they will grow and harvest Birch Wood, this can be turned into firewood, or, when processed it can be turned into Birch Bark & Birch Sap.
          --- the Bark will be used to make Birch Tar - this can then be used to create Juchten Leather, a tough leather that can be used to create a higher value clothing, and lower weight (vanilla clothing is weighted at 10, a Juchten Coat will only weigh 5).
          --- Birch Sap is classed as an edible fruit for your citizens, it can also be used in other productions... more to come.


@Nilla , I'm not sure why the cemetery is doing that! weird, I will investigate.

Good idea regarding the different gravestones :)

the fishmonger is a WIP, it is taking some time to get right, perhaps this is a reason to utilize only half of the fish... we will see. Also you are correct regarding Cod, I am going to change a few requirements to be able to acquire a few of the fish varieties, much like CC, there will be a requirement for a boat.

I made the jetty parts build-able on walkable areas because I thought it would be good for difficult terrain areas, I do realize it doesn't always work correctly.

My houses are probably a little small, but for good reason. Who would want to heat some of those larger homes! ;)

So Extreme isn't extreme enough?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 01:47:25 AM by Discrepancy »

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 06:35:56 AM »
I'm glad, to get some feedback on my feedback from you @Discrepancy. ;) I was afraid, you might be offended, that I didn't only write "great" and "good". Much of your stuff is great and good, but of cause, it's a WIP with some bugs and like everything in every aspect of life; not everyone likes everything. I'm a person who tells my opinion about the things I test; what I like and what I don't like. If I make suggestions to change things, I see it as something for the modder to think about, for people to discuss, not a request or demand. That's a reason, I write my opinions on the forum and not as a PM. Maybe this blog is the wrong place. Potential discussion would probably be better off on the Mod-discussion thread, but on the other hand; my opinions are connected to this special town, to these special conditions and the life of my poor Bannies doesn't really belong on the mod discussion site. So I will continue to write my thoughts here on the blog thread.

I haven't said anything to the discussion; if DSSV is/will be a "theme mod" or a "building mod" or something in between. To be honest; I don't  care about the label. Take it where you want it. Work on the ideas you like yourself. Not everything has to be compatible with everything else. Stay true to your personal style. That way, it will give variety and value to the game.

Some comments @Discrepancy to your new ideas;

Quote
  - all starting conditions will be changed slightly, Stranded is going to be split into 3 versions: Stranded (one family + small inventory) , Stranded Hard (2 families + very small inventory, only enough supplies for one family) & Stranded Harder (2 families with nothing)
    - all starts will have slightly revised inventories and start buildings (apart from Jack & Jill and Stranded Harder both will still start with nothing).

Good idea to have many options for an interesting start.

Quote
- I am also going to include a way to gather, hunt and fish quicker. But they won't be by the click of a button, for example you will need Fishing Gear to fish from the river bank, 8 Fishing Gear costs 3 log + 1 iron, these are easily built by the Village/Jetty Workshop or Blacksmith for some things. Also needed is Hunting Gear (same price as fishing gear), and Gathering Bowls (1 log  = 5 bowls), the Workshop will easily and quickly produce these simple items, the village workshop will come ready built on some starts, or is easily built for 8 logs and 1 stone.....
also...
- a small tent (with F variants) that sits on 2x2, the tent will cost 2 leather + 1 log + 8 work
- a small primitive wooden shelter, also sits on 2x2, this will cost 5 log + 8 work

This sounds very interesting. I like, that you're not just going the "easy way"; copying the instant collecting tools. Jack and Jill must have a possibility to gather enough food to survive the first months. It should be hard but at least possible. 8 logs and 1 stone for a workshop,1 more log for some bowls or baskets and another 5(?) for the smallest storage could work, even for an uneducated, tool less couple. Maybe they could even survive in an "Extreme" climate, where they have to build a shelter very fast. They will not have any leather, so the tent will not help them, but a shelter from 5 logs with 8 work could work. But don't forget a possibility for simple collecting of firewood, otherwise they will freeze to death, shelter or not.

I'm looking forward to see many of the other ideas, you describe. For me, it's important, that a new building makes "sense" (more, better, higher value...), not only something for "diversity" (more products for the Bannis to choose among). (That's the reason, I'm not comfortable playing the CC mod) I know, it's not the opinion of everyone, but I will continue to make my comments based on this.

Quote
So Extreme isn't extreme enough
I can say nothing to the extreme climate. I couldn't survive the start, so I changed to mild. I will test "Extreme" as well in another game. Maybe with the next version of the beta or maybe with this version in combination with some other mod, that makes it possible to survive a "Jack and Jill" start. As you might guess; I am a bit tempted to try that option.

This is long enough so I will not say much about the few years I played yesterday. There's not much to tell anyway: It works fine. I'll make some comments to the pictures.

First picture

I've built a small trading center, combining the the jetty traders with the small trader form @kid1293. I find, that they work very well together; same size, similar structures, similar colors. I like the grayish, more old looking variation of the jetty parts better. But the brown are also good, especially together with Kid's buildings. A combination of both works as well; different kind of wood, different ages, no problem.

I placed both the jetty trader a bit odd. The larger general trader across the river was intentional. I wanted to see, what happens, if you block the river with these jetty parts. It works fine. The food merchant was a mistake. The merchant is there right now, but he disappears somehow on the land side. It's hard by some of the buildings, to see which side is the "front side". But next time I'll know.

Second picture

Whole settlement in year 18. You may see, that the nice Russian house had to go. Sorry, @Tom Sawyer, this map gives so little space to build at. In this case, I'll prefere 2 or 3 small houses instead.  :-[ :-\  Same thing the graveyard. No space for such extravagances!  :(

I let the orchards grow more to harvest logs, than to harvest plums. Logs (and stones and iron) will be the problem on this map and orchards are quite a good way to get some logs on a small space. The byproduct fruit could be useful as well.




Online Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 07:22:31 AM »
I love it, we keep it in the forums and the community grows, they learn, we learn. Banished prospers.

I like honest feedback. I know that DSSV has a lot of issues, I'm trying to iron them out. Code-wise and also models: missing faces, off textures. Also I'm changing as a modder.
The problem with DSSV is that it is all a continuation of an earlier vision... which changes, and is it compatible?

But onwards, Firewood ideas :) thanks. An axe or 2 for a log and iron. slow but steady firewood. Do I go the North way of gathering firewood - I really like this, it makes sense. More so than cutting a tree down - especially a green tree!

I'm not concerned about labels either. But I know DSSV has gotten too big in that it holds me back, that is why it is too big. It needs to be split up.

Re: Extreme.
The mod stats are extreme:
Code: [Select]
// base range for temperature over the year
float _baseTemperature = 33.0;
float _temperatureRange = 28.0;
float _temperatureTolerance = 13.0;

// normal distribution range of base temperature change (biyearly?)
float _temperatureVariance = 28.0;

// chance for precip, clouds, partly cloud, sun
float _weatherChance
[
//  Precip Clouds  PartCld Sunny
0.4, 0.7, 0.9, 1.0, // early spring
0.3, 0.5, 0.6, 1.0, // spring
0.2, 0.4, 0.7, 1.0, // late spring
0.1, 0.3, 0.7, 1.0, // early summer
0.0, 0.2, 0.6, 1.0, // summer
0.0, 0.2, 0.6, 1.0, // late summer
0.1, 0.3, 0.7, 1.0, // early fall
0.2, 0.4, 0.8, 1.0, // fall
0.3, 0.5, 0.9, 1.0, // late fall
0.4, 0.7, 0.9, 1.0, // early winter
0.4, 0.8, 0.9, 1.0, // winter
0.5, 0.9, 0.9, 1.0, // late winter
]

// normal distribution range of weather chance
float _weatherVariance = 0.9;

RandomSelection _tornadoChance
{
float _years = 55;
}

compare that to mild:
Code: [Select]
// base range for temperature over the year
float _baseTemperature = 50.0;
float _temperatureRange = 30.0;
float _temperatureTolerance = 2.0;

// normal distribution range of base temperature change (biyearly?)
float _temperatureVariance = 20.0;

// chance for precip, clouds, partly cloud, sun
float _weatherChance
[
//  Precip Clouds  PartCld Sunny
0.5, 0.7, 0.9, 1.0, // early spring
0.4, 0.6, 0.6, 1.0, // spring
0.4, 0.5, 0.7, 1.0, // late spring
0.4, 0.5, 0.7, 1.0, // early summer
0.3, 0.3, 0.6, 1.0, // summer
0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 1.0, // late summer
0.3, 0.5, 0.7, 1.0, // early fall
0.4, 0.6, 0.8, 1.0, // fall
0.5, 0.6, 0.9, 1.0, // late fall
0.6, 0.6, 0.9, 1.0, // early winter
0.7, 0.8, 0.9, 1.0, // winter
0.6, 0.7, 0.9, 1.0, // late winter
]

// normal distribution range of weather chance
float _weatherVariance = 0.1;

RandomSelection _tornadoChance
{
float _years = 100;
float _population = 1;
}

extreme still isn't extreme enough, as I've been unsuccessfully trying to alter the tornado particle system to look more like a blizzard.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 09:51:17 AM »
I'm glad, to get some feedback on my feedback from you @Discrepancy. ;) ......I see it as something for the modder to think about, for people to discuss, not a request or demand.
     very good point.i think that is how we all are but it gets lost in translation sometimes.

I'm looking forward to see many of the other ideas, you describe. For me, it's important, that a new building makes "sense" (more, better, higher value...), not only something for "diversity" (more products for the Bannis to choose among). (That's the reason, I'm not comfortable playing the CC mod) I know, it's not the opinion of everyone, but I will continue to make my comments based on this.
Quote

yes CC is more of a large city mod than a town.takes time to get used to the production chains.where most house are built with logs,with CC they use lumber. i started using it because it included so many things i was looking for way back then. a mill,bakery,different crops,dairy/creamery,etc

The merchant is there right now, but he disappears somehow on the land side.
maybe you need a traveling trader instead of a boat trader.might work better in your smaller maps.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 02:53:21 PM »
To firewood.

I like the North way of collecting firewood. As you say @Discrepancy , it's realistic. Think yourself stranded with nothing, in such surroundings: Finding firewood and build a fire without any heavy tools/buildings or other equipment will be the least of your problems. (How you will start the fire is another question, that we have to leave to our imagination)  ;)

But I can see one problem. If you ask me, what I dislike most in vanilla Banished, I will say; the overpowered trade with firewood. It's much too easy to produce and sell with an extremely high profit. And firewood as a valuable trading good? That's very weird in my world. Maybe in arctic or desert areas but in a woodland? No way! @Tom Sawyer solved this in the Nordic mod by reducing the profit of selling firewood to a reasonably low value. I mean, if you introduce the possibility to pick firewood free out in the woods, without reducing the price as an export good, it's not a good thing for the gameplay. But I think, to alter trading values, need some consideration. It would be easy enough, to cut the prize for wood to the half. I would welcome that. But does everyone who use firewood for trade, find this a good idea? I'm not so sure.

Another option to get firewood in an easier and more realistic way, could be to see it as a byproduct to log making. A forester or laborer who cuts a tree makes 1 log to be used for construction and some firewood from the thinner parts. That's the way you normally use a tree. But I think, in this case too, the vanilla trading price for wood will be too high. This idea could maybe also be interesting for @Tom Sawyer as a part of the Nordic mod, where the price for wood  is more balanced.

I can't say much to the codes of the climate. I haven't even downloaded the modkit! But if I interpret the terms in math; most of it seems to be statistics; determining the variation between the years. The table with the seasons seems to me more "cosmetics"; determining how often it rains and how often the sun shines. As far as I know, how fast the crops grow and how much wood is needed in the houses, only depends on temperature not the perception.  The only thing I can say for sure about the "Extreme" climate, is that people in ragged clothes, without a heated house freeze to death in spring  :-\

@brads, the different building materials and the many production chains are not my primary issues with the CC mod. But this is another discussion, maybe some other time. A travelling trader? Was it that? Never crossed my way.


Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 03:38:31 PM »
To firewood.

Another option to get firewood in an easier and more realistic way, could be to see it as a byproduct to log making. A forester or laborer who cuts a tree makes 1 log to be used for construction and some firewood from the thinner parts. That's the way you normally use a tree. But I think, in this case too, the vanilla trading price for wood will be too high. This idea could maybe also be interesting for @Tom Sawyer as a part of the Nordic mod, where the price for wood  is more balanced.


i like NILLA"s idea. but i would request it to be made as a separate mod that could be put above in the mod order. then it would change all map styles. when the laborer cuts down trees,he collects firewood.that makes sence to me.
   Nilla,i agree with you on the firewood.  personally i try not to trade items i need. food,firewood,logs even. though in early game it is difficult not to. i would rather build toward making furniture or alcohol and trade those. my problem is not all the traders will take the furniture. they are very picky