Author Topic: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village  (Read 816 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2016, 07:03:58 AM »
A small (sorry, not so small after all  :-\) review from yesterday's playing.

First picture

I was lucky to get some brussels sprouts. Of cause I want to test the new crops. Look at the rows! It looks like the the farmer has a crush on the mead brewer, visiting her very often in the planting season.  ;D By the way, I like this "disorder". The crop also look good, quite like the plants I used to grow in my garden.

I can see, that you've changed the input of honey in the brewery @Discrepancy . You need 60 honey to produce 10 mead. There's still 2 profit on every mead and honey is easy to produce, so I don't mind at all. As long as not everyone is as fond of mead as the farmer, there's still enough profit, if you want to sell it. I do put some of it in the trading ports, but I don't really need it for trade at the moment. It's more a way to get rid of some honey. I have a bit too much of everything, so I need a lot of storage buildings. So be my guest, drink as much mead as you like, inhabitants of Altenbeltsville! Just one small thing; the menu at the brewery says 7/10 mead from 30 honey, but you need 60.

I've also thought a bit about honey. You label honey as eatable fruit. As it is now, honey is easy to produce from a small "building", easier than the same amount of orchard fruit. And honey a fruit? I know, it contains some vitamines and other good, more medical stuff, but no, it's not to compare with fruit. I think, it's possible to label it just as eatable without belonging to any food category. I would prefere that. 

Second picture


The settlement in year 24. It grows slowly and is very prosperous. I find the overall picture looks nice, although I can confess that I have "misused" some of the buildings. It's very tempting on this map with so little land, possible to build on. I'm talking about these high tiny storage, that I've put on every spare narrow space left. It do look a bit weird with a single high store next to the fields or the river. I guess a good storm would make severe damage to it. A responsible user would of cause only build several of them together or extend that other kind of store with the road in between in one or both directions. But responsible user? Me? Sorry, no!  :-[

Third picture

Of cause I'm experimenting with the jetty parts; trying to use them in various ways. Here is something, that you might want to look into @Discrepancy: I've built one trader and two storage buildings across the river. (No problems for merchants to pass.) Look at the man on the ground of the river beneath the port. The part of the jetty in front of the stores is well walkable, but when a person goes from the store to the port, he/she disappears under the water. The parts belonging to the port looks exactly like those from the store, but they work in different ways. The right store disappears a bit into the mountain (same effect as the fishmonger) but I don't think, you should do anything about that. It should be possible to build jetty parts on shores, that's not perfectly flat. Again you must leave it to the responsibility of the user, to avoid the weirdest variations.

Fourth picture


Altenbeltsville in year 29. I've built one of @kid1293īs small town halls (just outside this picture), so now I can show my inventory. A bit too much of almost everything. This settlement has only 44 inhabitants, so it will take some time to eat 26k food.  :o There's not so much logs, but it's autumn and I will soon cut some plum trees to increase the stores  :-\ I also built one of Kids brewers to get rid of some plums. I find it work well together with the DSSV buildings.

 

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2016, 07:00:50 AM »
This has become quite a boring game. The start was hard enough, but at the moment it's very easy: The population is still small, so the small buildable area doesn't hurt, yet. In fact, it's the opposite. I've built very compact, everything close, so the productivity is very high. Of cause this will change, when I have to expand to remote areas. At the moment I let the game run fast. When I look at the screenshots, I'm astonished how many years went by, the short time I played yesterday.

I have bin thinking of loading the nomad well to speed things up and make it more interesting, but the only really fun thing at the moment, is to test new buildings. And when I test new things, I primary want to look at  the productivity and the numbers. A mixture of educated and uneducated mess things up. So I will rather let these easy years pass fast.

I'm quite chocked about how the " city building game" I played with the Mega Mod has influenced my way of playing. I found myself build stoneroads around the small market place, not because many people walk there, just because it looks "right".  ??? These untidy stockpiles everywhere also disturbed my eyes.  :o Luckily the DSSV stores could be built as specialized for most every kind of material. But I find the stores contain too little material, about the same as a stockpile. I don't ask for a small "magic" storage, that could contain 1000s units of material, but a little more than a stockpile, would be reasonable.

It looks like @Discrepancy, that you have some kind of philosophy, when it comes to the storage buildings (except the "geeky" Fibonacci numbers ;) ) A storage where you can store more per tile, cost more to build; material and work. That's a good thing. I had a small free space (4*4 tiles) close to the ports, where some more storage would be good. I was relived, that I choose to build 3 small cellars (together 2400 units) instead of one small barn (1200 units) there. I'm not totally ruined by the "city building" game after all. I don't think the cellars are meant to be built in this way.

First picture

The cellars I just wrote about. I'm more concerned, that there might leak in water from the close river in the cellars, than that they look ridiculous, built this way.  ;D You can also see the many options for specialized storage.

Second picture

The stone paved small market. Sorry, @Discrepancy I like your markets but on this map they are too big.

Third picture

Jetty experiments. I guess you already know @Discrepancy, that if you put two diagonal parts together, a person who passes disappears briefly just between the parts. I have a request, when it comes to the fisher (both jetty and bridge fisher). You can see the "action circle" of the fishermen, before you set the footprint, but it disappears when the fisher is built. I think, that this area is important, that the catch will be less, if you build other things in the circle. That's the reason, I want to see it, also after the fisher is built.

Fourth picture

I've expanded the settlement and built a second center on the other side of the river.

Offline Gatherer

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2016, 08:00:03 AM »
Jetty experiments. I guess you already know @Discrepancy, that if you put two diagonal parts together, a person who passes disappears briefly just between the parts.

I'm fairly sure the CC guys created some type of horizontal obstacle plank for their jetty pieces that prevents people from falling overboard on corners? Would be worth checking with them.
Fiat panis

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2016, 02:26:28 PM »
Jetty experiments. I guess you already know @Discrepancy, that if you put two diagonal parts together, a person who passes disappears briefly just between the parts.

I'm fairly sure the CC guys created some type of horizontal obstacle plank for their jetty pieces that prevents people from falling overboard on corners? Would be worth checking with them.

:) it is just a floor piece not lining up correct. It has been fixed and will be in the next release.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 03:15:32 AM »
I've played a bit more but I just noticed, that I hardly made any screenshots. The game goes on in the same way. So I have decided to take a lot of nomads after all. I don't find the nomad well as a single mod (and I don't dare to load the "Tiny compilation" mod, where it is a part, to an existing game.) But I still have that "Nomad welcome sign". That will do. ;) I will take 20% nomads every year as long as I can. So I guess this game will not last so many more years and certainly not be boring any more.  ;D

The picture shows more jetty experimenting. I like it. It would be interesting to see, what one of you good "city builders" could achieve using it, on this kind of map with the many small lakes. If you look at the right corner of the lake, just beside the two jetty storage next to the small house, there's a piece missing. To make it right, I would have needed a smaller piece to connect the diagonal and straight pieces. I put one of the short diagonal pieces on that spot. Not perfect but it will do.

I've seen, that the jetty fruit- and vegetable market also has grain and proteins. I find it good that way; it's a small food market. But maybe it should be renamed.


Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2016, 11:22:40 AM »
@Nilla, lots of changes to DS Small Village since my Smallville.  Very interesting post and settlement.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2016, 06:39:39 PM »
The picture shows more jetty experimenting. I like it. It would be interesting to see, what one of you good "city builders" could achieve using it, on this kind of map with the many small lakes. If you look at the right corner of the lake, just beside the two jetty storage next to the small house, there's a piece missing. To make it right, I would have needed a smaller piece to connect the diagonal and straight pieces. I put one of the short diagonal pieces on that spot. Not perfect but it will do.

A few more changes and additions still need to happen with the diagonal pieces. I will start looking into these after I finish the next update.
Great screenshot ! :)

Quote
I've seen, that the jetty fruit- and vegetable market also has grain and proteins. I find it good that way; it's a small food market. But maybe it should be renamed.

This mistake has been rectified - though the protein and grain storage flags have been removed. There will be a jetty 2x2 protein market, as well as a grain vendor (small sits on 2x1).
To further the market selection, I had started a slightly larger jetty market (4x4) that sells food, health, tools & clothing. Also a firewood market is in the works.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2016, 08:04:00 PM »
Discrepancy ,will there be a dock firebundler that uses reeds? i use the 1 in CC a lot. keeps the firewood cutter from fighting with builders,etc for logs. super handy early in games.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2016, 08:43:52 PM »
Discrepancy ,will there be a dock firebundler that uses reeds? i use the 1 in CC a lot. keeps the firewood cutter from fighting with builders,etc for logs. super handy early in games.

It's a good idea, but it would mean I would need the 'Reed' resource from CC, and how to produce the reeds at the jetty?
I don't really want to directly copy all of CC... ;) I have already taken a few elements from it!
I will investigate this further.

I was thinking of making a small 'Driftwood Collector', it would require a boat as a build cost, and would generate a small amount of Firewood, quite a bit less than a single woodcutter. As there is no resource cost to the collecting the firewood, the first outlay needs to be big - ie building the boat first).
My Idea was to also make it have a maximum capacity like the Mine.
Perhaps only produce 1000, before having to upgrade (requiring a new boat), this will make it slightly better at production. Once this has run out, you will need to demolish and rebuild from start for more production.
Thoughts?

This is the same kind of idea I have for some of the other collecting:
Forest Food Gatherer - works like a normal Gatherer's Hut in that they pick up wild spawning foods within a radius, except that it will be for early game, and can be used in a more nomadic way. It will have limited production, but a quick build costing only 1 Gathering Bowl + 8 work, and only allows 1 Gatherer (smaller radius).
I am yet to test all this code, so hopefully I can get it working to see how it pans out in play.

Offline elemental

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2016, 09:22:59 PM »
Driftwood is an interesting idea, but wouldn't that wood be soaking wet? That's not to say you shouldn't do it - the more buildings the better.  :)  The driftwood collector could dry the wood under cover before it's used. A beachcomber/driftwood collector could also collect a small amount of coal. It does get washed up on beaches if there are coal seams near the water, and apparently the Banished world if full of coal!!!

Another one is a forest firewood gatherer. There should be plenty of kindling and small logs in the forest. No need to cut down a whole tree just to boil a kettle. It should probably have lower production output than a woodcutter though.

As far as CC goes, your stuff ends up in their megamod anyway, so I don't see the harm in doing your own version of some of their things. That's if you want to do your own versions, of course. Besides, there is no rule that says that once one modder has done something then no one else can do it again. Some ideas are worth doing twice, so if you want to do something, don't hold back. Nobody is going to think of you as a copycat. :)

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2016, 03:33:48 AM »
Introducing reed? Why not, but I would say not primary as fuel, there's not much energy in reed. We live close to a lake. Everey spring old reed is washed to the shore. We use to get rid of it by burning. It's like "phuuuiw" and all gone. You could hardly grill a sausage on the glow, much less heat a house. But it would be an interesting building material to replace iron (how much iron would such a small houses contain?). The roofs are made of of reed, aren't  they?

Driftwood soaking wet? Yes, of cause but what about wood from a fresh cut tree? I'm sure it takes much longer to get that wood dry enough, to use for heating in a decent way. So if you want drift wood (not a bad idea) I wouldn't bother too much.

I agree with @elemental; if some production fits into your concept, it doesn't matter, if it's done before. How many mills and bakeries exist out there? Each with their own "recipes".

To my game.

First picture

It shows a weird thing. I'm not sure, that it's a bug, that could be fixed. It's more likely something to think about, if you use the jetty parts. The homeless people on the bridge are the builders who built it. After the bridge was constructed, they were trapped on it, because it's not built directly on the shore. It's weird, that they could carry material to any construction site and build something in the middle of a lake (the man in yellow, just leaving the bridge, brought material to the unfinished part) But once it's finished, they don't even dare to make that small jump to the shore. They will be released from their bridge prison, as soon as the jetty part directly on the shore is built. You can see the footprint.

These footprints could still be seen in winter, even after the part is built. On the straight part it seldom matters, it looks like a shadow, but it doesn't look so nice on the diagonal parts.

Second picture

As I said, I built the nomad sign. It looks like this is the 5 batch. Of cause, it's suicide to take them but I will anyhow; I'll take these and the next. Then this impossible map contains more than 1000 inhabitans. I know, it's not sustainable, at least not the way I`vie built it. But they will survive for some years, if I choose to run the game. The stores are still well filled and the production alright.

No merchants visit the tradingport on the lake. It's connected to the river, so normally they could get there. I guess it's because I've "blocked" the river with the jetty parts. The "behaviour" of the merchants has been discussed elsewhere. I have no idea, if it could be "fixed". You may see things like this in a vanilla game, too, if you block the river, by building trading ports too close to eachother, on opposite sides of the river.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2016, 05:40:12 AM »
The last pictures from Altenbeltsville. As I said, I took two more batches of nomads and I stopped the game, as they all had houses. The game could go on some more years but despite what some of you may think; I have no pleasure from killing Bannis! ;) If you look at the production numbers, it doesn't look too bad. It wouldn't be too difficult to build a few more blacksmiths and tailors. The low store of firewood comes from a shortage of logs, because I needed a lot to build all these houses. If there's enough logs, the production will be enough. The problem would be food. Presently I have to buy 30 000 food each year. The last years I could do that, because I've stored a lot (mainly alcohol) in my ports. But the production of sellable things is far from 30 000 trade units and I don't think, that it will be possible to increase it as much as necessary in that short time.

(Hm.... maybe this will not be the last report after all. When I write this, I feel a little bit tempted, to give it a try. Maybe, it could work after all)

A summary of my impressions of the DSSV-mod:

I like it. It gives a pleasant over all look of the settlement. The new starting options look promising for players, who want a challenge. After the start, however, it becomes a vanilla game. A little trickier, if you use the special, harder maps but opposite to CC, with its production chains and advanced building materials and the North, with its harder production conditions and complex trade, it doesn't really change the gameplay. @Discrepancy, I say this, because I have read somewhere, that you had some trouble, because the mod was getting too big and hard to work with. I don't think, it would be a disadvantage, if you would split it, into say 3 different mods: 1. the buildings on land, 2. the jetty/bridge parts, 3. the starting options and new maps. It could be a modular system, where you could choose to play with one or several parts. In any case, I'm looking forward to test further developments. You don't seem to run out of ideas.

First picture

My people caught yellow fever. There are worse diseases, but in a settlement like this, you can't prevent it from spread to more or less everyone. So, quite a few people died. If this disease hasn't occurred, I don't think I would have needed this last "batch" of nomads. There would have been 1000 inhabitants soon enough in any case.

Other pictures

I made screenshots from different parts of the settlement, all with different menus or graphs. The over all look is pretty much the same, I like it. I don't think I've built any vanilla buildings. It's mostly DSSV and a few from @kid1293, they work well together.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:46:03 AM by Nilla »

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2016, 05:49:55 AM »
More pictures

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Altenbeltsville-testing the harder options of the DS-Small Village
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 05:51:19 AM »
and the last