Author Topic: Nilla, Prenting- back home  (Read 600 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Nilla, Prenting- back home
« on: January 01, 2017, 07:52:49 AM »
Happy New Year to all of you!

New year; new game! I've made a few excursions, but now I'm back where I belong: in the North! :)

As you might have understood, I like hard challenges and I have decided to try a Nordic game without building any schools. I'm not sure, that it's even possible to build a larger settlement with only uneducated workers with the present version of the North mod. I've studied my old notes with the production numbers and if I've got you right @Tom Sawyer, in most cases an uneducated makes 75% of what an educated make. This will make many productions unprofitable (= the production cost is higher than the value of the product in trade).

I don't know what strategies I'm going to use, but my initial thoughts are: If possible; no food import, no barter trade, import of as much "unprofitable" goods as possible and a not too fast growth. Since I don't really know the production numbers of the uneducated, yet, I don't really know what I can sell and what I ought to import, but it will be shown during the game.

As I played the "Wise old lady" in @Abandonedīs Nordic story, I wasn't really comfortable giving advice, because I've seldom played the North with a mild climate. I think this is a good opportunity to learn how much the difference between mild and harsh is. If I really want to succeed, I guess that harsh would be a bit too hard in this case.  :-\ In my last Nordic games I have used the Nordic forest and lake maps, so it's time to play on a valley map. I think the uneducated will be a challenge enough, so I've just chosen the "Farmers" start option. But there's nothing wrong with some action; the disasters stay on!

This is a game for 2017 but I actually did a small "false start" yesterday. I will show you a few starting pictures.

First picture

Starting options. I only use 2 mods. The North and @Tom Sawyerīs new Russian houses. This time I will use them.

I have a question to you @Tom Sawyer ; I've read on your homepage, that the Russion houses have a "good" energy balance. What does that mean? Are the red houses better? I can't build any yet but sometime I hope, I can get some bricks and I want to know, if they pay off. I guess I can't "play around" much in this game and build a lot of those houses, just because I like the look.

Second picture

November year 2, everyone has a home. I like the Russian houses. But I am a little bit confused about the footprint. You can see it very clear in the snow. On the part where the small path to the door is, there's a road, but not on the tile in front of the door and the tile next to it. Could people pass here? If not, I guess you have to be careful, how you place the house, so you don't close the access to the door.

Third picture

This is how far I got. I remember @Abandoned from your last story, how shocked the parents were, as their 19 year old son hooked up with a widow of 40+. What will the parents of this 10 years old think? And what does the 28 year old widow think, taking a new husband in the same age as her children?


Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2017, 08:18:40 AM »
@Nilla, looking forward to your new town's development.  I certainly did enjoy my expedition to the North and will certainly return there.  Tsh Tsh, these young people today, a 10 year old with a 28 year old mother.  Indeed, what will his own mother say.   

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2017, 01:19:48 PM »
Happy New Year to all of you!

Happy new year 2017 to you too, @Nilla :)
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Offline QueryEverything

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2017, 06:43:50 PM »
Happy New Year @Nilla , I will be following you along this adventure :D 
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I query because I like to learn new things. 

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 04:00:11 AM »
Nice to see a new adventure by @Nilla. And all the new stuff people have created last time (by mods, screens and stories). That keeps the game alive and motivates to continue modding!

The izba works like the original stone house. The grades of efficiency are: low (60), good (90) and excellent (120). The red cottage is excellent. I think it is worth to go for it in mid game but not necessarily.

And it has its gable-end onto street and the door on the right side. The arrows of the grid show to the street but I removed the street row in front of the house for more flexibility. So you can build a field or orchard (or decoratives) in front of a stand alone house for example. But you are right, it is not that easy to understand it by the footprint. A row of this house would look like this.

http://banishedventures.com/files/IzbaRow.jpg
Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 04:01:43 AM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 04:47:56 AM »
I'm in year 10. The settlement grows without any problems. :)

I'm examining the production numbers for uneducated and it seems like it's 75% of the educated most of the time. As I suspected, this will make some of the productions unprofitable: tools, iron/steel, bloom is better to buy, than to produce yourself with uneducated workers. However, if you have to order tools, you may as well produce them yourself. Tricky to decide what's best. I guess I will buy all tools, iron and steel, that the merchants bring without ordering, but also produce some. We will see how it works later.

Anyhow I have located my initial educated people close to the blacksmith/bloomery and will produce as much tools as possible, as long as there are still any educated people left. It isn't foolproof, sometimes the game choose to assign an uneducated blacksmith, who lives far away, but most of the time, it works. This may be something for everyone, who takes nomads to think about, also with a vanilla gameplay: Locate the houses for the nomads far away from any blacksmiths and tailors, where they make most harm.

First picture

Overview September 9. I'm glad, that I gave the right advice to @Abandoned about potatoes and apples: You don't have to start the potato harvest manually, when you play on mild, but it's safer here, where I use fields for 1 farmer of about 90 tiles. If you don't want to bother about the harvest, I would recommend smaller fields; maybe 70-80 tiles for 1 farmer or 120-140 for 2 farmers. So far, the appleharvest work well without manual starts. My largest orchards are 10*19 and it's no problem for 1 farmer to harvest all.

Second picture

I've cut in some menus. I like how the population graph and food graph look similar.

I also show what i sell. I haven't been 100% true to my initial strategy; no purchase of food, no barter trade. I buy all grain I can get without ordering. (I haven't seen any seeds yet. :( ) If I don't have enough coins, I barter. I'm not sure about wool coats. They do bring some profit, but only if you can sell them for 20 and I haven't seen any merchant who pays that. I'm not sure, there are any. Maybe I will have to make some changes; maybe produce reindeercoats instead of selling the furs, maybe produce Nordic coats or maybe sell the wool and just produce coats for domestic use. We will see.

Third picture

Here again the Russian houses and the unusual footprint. Will people take a shortcut when the houses are built or do they have to follow the bended road? I have built some rows like the one you show @Tom Sawyer, but sometimes it fits better this way.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 05:57:38 AM »
They use this narrow path on the footprint when there is a building next to it. Otherwise they can run another way. So on the picture, your people may not be happy with it, but it should work. :)

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2017, 06:49:36 AM »
@Nilla , production may be less per uneducated worker but town and population growth is certainly way better.  You can't do much without adult workers especially tool production chain in the North.  Your population has tripled in only ten years, must be all those healthy apples  :D.  I struggled with lack of workers the whole map, currant map too.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2017, 07:58:15 AM »
Building houses at the beginning is the most important thing, to get enough workers early. I always look into the houses. Often I keep the house menus from the first 6-8 houses open, to see if there is a young couple, that might want a house of their own. The start is important for the development of the whole game.

In your present game I also see that you partly use the row houses from Kid. I have also seen in some other games, that you sometimes build the small houses from his forest outpost. Don't forget that these houses only contains a 4 person family. That also slows the population growth down.

I now see that you use the proper time mod. Of cause it's nice for the story line but it makes the start of a game (for me boringly) slow. There is a trick to get more children (later workforce), I don't know if you know it. If you build more houses than families, some couples will separate (maybe not so good in a story )  :-\ But they don't really separate, there are still children born, as many as the house allows. And if you force them together again, they will always move back "where they belong". If you want to try this, you have to be a bit patient, because it's not always that the "right" couple (=where the house is full) separates. Another maybe easier way is to build large houses. Some of the larger rowhouses can hold a family of at least 6 maybe even more.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:10:05 AM by Nilla »

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 04:47:16 AM »
A few more years, a few more pictures:

First picture

Good things have happened. The merchants are friendly! I've got barley seeds and bricks.  Barley grows very well in the mild climate, even better than potatoes. There's no need to start the harvest manually.

One not so good thing; I tried to make schnapps from potatoes; no good business. I even think, that it will be a loss with educated workers. It looks like, no merchant wants to buy it to the higher prize. Is this intentional @Tom Sawyer? A way to force us to make liqueur? Or maybe I'm wrong and haven't paid enough attention.

Second picture

A small report from that weird couple from my last entry: Still together. :)

I'm starting to think, that it was a mistake to play on mild; not much of a challenge. Look at the food graph. Farming is very efficient on mild, even with uneducated farmers.

Third picture

This picture shows how I've used my bricks and roof tiles so far: small stores and big barns. To produce bricks is a loss with uneducated workers. So same as tools; I will buy as much as I can without ordering, and only produce, if the merchant don't deliver enough.

Beer from barley is better than schnapps from potatoes. You need 12 barley and 1 firewood for 9 beer, instead of 24 potatoes and 1 firewood for 9 schnapps. I don't know yet, if any merchant want to pay the higher price. They did the last time I played but I know there are a few small changes to this version, so we will see.

Speaking of changes from the last version: In my last game you could put 2 brewers and 2 tailors in each building. 2 didn't produce more than 1. You have changed the brewers @Tom Sawyer, but it looks like you forgot the tailors. I tested briefly and it looks like 2 tailors still don't  produce more than 1.

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 06:45:09 AM »
@Nilla , your town is doing well.  I think these boatman control how the map will go, bad if they don't bring grain or production chain items, good if they do. Slow start also often doesn't produce enough trade goods early on either.   As soon as I went back to my game yesterday, I realized population difference was because of Proper Time Mod.  It is good for the story so I must learn to be more patient. Regarding housing, my first time using these row houses, nice big families, I like these houses.  This map I remembered what you told me and was watching for best time to build new house for couples, then had separations.  I did not know it was okay for population growth to leave them apart. I have been moving them back, funny, I wrote it into story. I now have a lot more children than adults, must keep eye on food supply.  Thanks again for information and good advice.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 07:43:45 AM »
yeah, NILLA plays at about triple the speed without the propertime mod. i have to remind myself that with other bloggers,they gain population so much faster. thou i think the time mod forces us to slow down our games.it can be a good thing. gives time to plan and to build some supplies. sure we get a slower play for a few years but that pays off by saving us from the food crashes later.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 09:56:14 AM »
I had to look into the source and actually snaps could also be sold for a better price of 8. But it is not in the last game version. Only in the current beta. I will add this to the next version. After all, it is not so bad to produce snaps/vodca, but from potatoes it is not a high quality product.^^ People make it only this way when rye is not available. In harsh climate, however, it can be more productive to make it from potatoes. And rye is an important food resource because grain and with an increased amount by baking bread. So I think it is not easy to decide what raw material to use for this production. It's up to you to find the best way on your map. :)

The Tailor I had changed to 1 worker, but in any way it is not in the compiled version. At least, it does not make sense to put 2 workers to a tailor as you found out.

I like your pictures, especially the perfect efficiency around the forester radii. And I did not think that this Russian house will be used so much. Maybe I will go for the variants I had planned. At least, I think it's my turn to bring something new.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2017, 07:16:39 AM »
I like your pictures, especially the perfect efficiency around the forester radii. And I did not think that this Russian house will be used so much. Maybe I will go for the variants I had planned. At least, I think it's my turn to bring something new.

Thank, you! As you are well aware of, in the North the log production is important. I never plan much in advance. I like it much better when the settlement grows as it comes. But in a Nordic game, I always start with placing a few foresters, then I develop everything else around them. I also let the menus stay open, to see the circles, so I can avoid to put anything inside.

Some variations of the Russian house would be nice. Since it's unsymmetrical, I would like to have a mirror image of it. Some slightly different colors, especially of the roof, would also be nice for the over all look. I like them better than the vanilla houses. I can confess, that I like the red houses more and have now started to build some, but before I have enough bricks, or if I'm running out of bricks, I will continue to build them.

And do look forward on new things from you!!! :)

First picture


I find, that the Swedish and the Russian houses look good together.

This picture also shows, that even if you take a very young second husband, you might be a widow for the second time. I can also tell, she didn't take a third husband, she died of old age some time later.

Second picture

Oh, no! I forgot to build a well in this new village! :(  :-[

Third picture

Of cause, it soon looked like this. You can see, how far they have to go, to get water. No chance to stop the fire!

Fourth picture

11 houses, a large barn and a small store destroyed. 31 homeless people and several 1000 units of goods destroyed: The prize for forgetting to build a well!

Offline Gatherer

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Re: Nilla, Prenting- back home
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 09:08:28 AM »
Ouch! At least there are no forest fires in this game.
Fiat panis