Author Topic: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security  (Read 5832 times)

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Offline slink

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2014, 04:06:23 PM »
It is because they sound so similar that I mentioned it.  I am glad you took the information in the manner which I offered it.   :)

Offline mariesalias

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 04:21:08 AM »
Persecute would work if you were being sympathetic to towards the uploaders being targeted. Prosecute works from the legal standpoint. Crossing out persecute and adding prosecute makes it look like you are saying the 'correct thing' with prosecute but really mean the crossed out, persecute. Makes it seem kind of tongue-in-cheek. ;P


I would not have known English was not your first language @Kaldir; you write it very well. I had no idea until you mentioned it in a different thread.

Offline Kaldir

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 04:52:41 AM »
Crossing out persecute and adding prosecute makes it look like you are saying the 'correct thing' with prosecute but really mean the crossed out, persecute. Makes it seem kind of tongue-in-cheek. ;P
Yeah, thats me being all witty. Ahum. 8)

I would not have known English was not your first language @Kaldir; you write it very well. I had no idea until you mentioned it in a different thread.

Writing comprehensible in a foreign language is one thing, but getting a real feeling for the language and how you can use it and 'play' with it is a different matter. I often feel like my vocabulary is still pretty limited and my grammar is too Dutch-like. Even after 30+ years of reading and hearing it. So getting a compliment like that is very valuable. Thanks. :D

Offline slink

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 04:54:18 AM »
Some languages do have the same word for related concepts, where English has two words.  I recall a discussion I had with Alex Laemmle (spelled properly with an umlaut) over the difference between "moral" and "morale".  Apparently they are the same word in German, and the meaning comes from context.  I found that interesting in that, to me, that implied a closer connection between religion and positive thinking than I was brought up with.  It wasn't a completely strange idea to me; just an interesting one.

Offline slink

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2014, 05:00:33 AM »
The fact that many native English speakers now speak English so poorly, and many foreign nationals speak it so well, actually rebounds to harm against the foreign nationals because they are mistaken for natives by those of us natives who were taught to speak English properly.  We expect the foreign nationals to have the entire English mindset, and they of course do not, because English is not their native language.  An old saying was that England and America are two countries divided by a common language.  Sometimes it appears as if the entire world is now in that state.

Offline rkelly17

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2014, 10:48:22 AM »
2 responses:
I always enjoy listening in as IT pros talk shop. Since I live in a tech hub (Waterloo, Ontario) many of my former students worked for various software companies and I learned a lot from them. One such was a fellow who worked for a firm that did security for other companies and spent most of his time re-writing flawed security software. Very interesting. So I've enjoyed following @solarscreen's and @Kaldir's conversation. I'm reminded of what a colleague (who was himself an electrical engineer PhD) once told me: Never assume a conspiracy when simple incompetence provides an explanation.

Second: One of the problems with English is that it is a hybrid language and it still, to some extent, reflects the social world of the 11th-14th centuries. Notice that the English word for the animal in the field often comes from Saxon (a version of Plattdeutsch, Low German), the language of the peasants; the word for the meat on the table comes from French, the language of the nobility; and the scientific word comes from Latin, the language of the scholars. This can be extended across categories. The fact that English often has two words for something that in other languages is one word also leads to various philosophical and theological problems as well. In my work the relevant languages were German, Latin, Greek and Hebrew. This leads to more than a little bit of fuzziness in English-language thought where we make distinctions that might well be artificial (my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree). It also points out the problems of what Ivan Illich called "homo monolingous," the mono-lingual person. I deeply respect someone like @Kaldir who can express himself so well in more than one language. Like @slink, I was taught proper English grammar and composition. 40 years of reading graduate student essays (most often native speakers) has left me unsure of what actually IS correct anymore.

Offline Kaldir

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2014, 11:35:16 AM »
@rkelly17: You call it respect (and I thank you for that), but for me, and many more Dutch people, English is so common that you learn it naturally. 99% of the movies on television and in the cinema is English spoken (with Dutch subtitles), 90% or more of TV series is English spoken, 99% of computer games we play is English spoken (without subtitles :) ). TV channels like BBC, National Geographic and Discovery Channel are included in the default TV subscriptions.

We also get English class starting at primary school till the end of highschool, sometimes from British or American teachers. A lot of university courses use English books. All my IT training uses English course material, and exams are in English. Several IT business helpdesks are in English (either with a British, American or Indian accent).

English is so common for me, that I chose to install my Windows and iPad at home in the English language instead of Dutch. I read books in English if that is the original language (in fact, we might have more books here at home in English than Dutch).

English becomes a second nature this way, except for speaking. Then you can easily tell I'm not native English. :D


Edit: the reason I often edit my posts is to correct some spelling or grammar, like this time.
 
Edit 2: We also get German and French classes in high school and some TV channels, but those languages never clicked with me. My father though reads books in English, French and German with ease.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 11:40:58 AM by Kaldir »

Offline rkelly17

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 12:25:51 PM »
My grandkids are in French Immersion in school here (Canada being officially bilingual) and are pretty convinced ol' Granddad is completely out of it because he doesn't speak French. I try to convince them that where I grew up (LA) bilingual did NOT mean English and French, but they still give me that look. I got my PhD from a pack of misplaced Brits who assumed that Hebrew, Greek, Latin, German and French were normal for such a thing. I passed the exams, though the only one I was ever even close to good at was German. I regret not learning more languages along the way. When I was an intern I had a mentor who grew up bilingual French and German. He learned English when his family immigrated to the US in the 1920s, learned Latin, Greek and Hebrew in school, picked up Italian during the war, figured if he knew Italian and French he should learn Spanish, then did a PhD in linguistics at Stanford on the GI bill. He picked up Turkish riding public buses in Turkey in the 60s. He was an amazing man.

Offline Kaldir

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2014, 11:20:13 AM »
Some languages do have the same word for related concepts, where English has two words.

English though (like many languages) also has words with two completely unrelated meanings. When I was a kid, I wondered for a while why they were always talking about a certain monetary institution when discussing the friction between Israeli and the Palestines. It was a bit later that I discovered that the West Bank was not that.

When I was an intern I had a mentor who grew up bilingual French and German. He learned English when his family immigrated to the US in the 1920s, learned Latin, Greek and Hebrew in school, picked up Italian during the war, figured if he knew Italian and French he should learn Spanish, then did a PhD in linguistics at Stanford on the GI bill. He picked up Turkish riding public buses in Turkey in the 60s. He was an amazing man.

Wow, just wow.

"[..] if he knew Italian and French he should learn Spanish [..]"
Of course!

Offline A Nonny Moose

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Re: The Stratfor Hack: Unbelievable lack of security
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2014, 03:47:22 PM »
^ Some people are natural polyglots.  It depends a great deal on being at least bilingual in childhood. 

I say I have only English but I have a good handle on at least three dialects of French, a little Italian (university Florentine), Latin (getting more profane lately), and enough German and Spanish to order a beer and say thank you.  One does pick some things up when passing through life.  I'll be 77 next month.
Go not to the oracle, for it will say both yea and nay.