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THE NORTH 6

Started by Tom Sawyer, December 09, 2017, 01:23:50 PM

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Nilla

#720
I have problems with the smokehouse. I think I read somewhere that the production is slightly higher then the small smoking shed. But in this settlement, it isn´t. It looks like the farmer who´s working there really want to smoke ALL DIFFERENT kind of fish and meat at the same time. In my present town, I have a lot of venison, a lot of mutton, a lot of beef and a lot of salmon but only a little trout. It´s just one small trout fisher at the edge of the village and it looked like the farmer walked that far to get a little trout, instead of grabbing a big amount of salmon in the barn "next doors".

I got the idea to demolish the little trout fisher. My thought was; if I have no trout, no long walk to the "outback" to get a few pieces. But that was a bad idea. Now, the smokehouse doesn´t work at all. The amount of trout is -22  and it seems like the farmer can´t start his work with one negative number and there´s no trout left. I tried to "fake demolish" the smokehouse to get rid of all material. The store showed 0 all material was gone except the -22 trout.

Now I will see if I really can demolish the smokehouse with the -22 trout and then rebuild it to see what happens if there isn´t any trout there at all from the start.

Edit: No, the smokehouse can´t be demolished with -22 trout. I guess I will need to rebuild my trout fisher again.  :-\

Tom Sawyer

I reproduced what you describe and indeed the demolishing process cannot be finished if the smokehouse is in this state. It might be a rare situation but too much of a bug in my opinion. Seems another idea doesn't survive serious testing.

Nilla

Sorry for being the bad person again, disturbing the fun.  ::) :-[

It might be a very rare situation, that you want to demolish the smokehouse with a negative content but I don´t think it´s so rare that you after some time don´t have one kind of meat that happened to has a negative value and the smokehouse stops to produce until you can provide it again. (maybe you´ll just split some herds or as I did, don´t want any trout fisher)

I started the trout fisher again, let the smokehouse have a + amount of everything, fake demolished it, really demolished the trout fisher, put the last pieces of trout in the trading port and started the smokehouse again. Now it produces more than with trout but still not more than the small smoke huts. It´s about the same annual output. One more thing is weird. It looks like salmon is used and smoked meat is produced, and some mutton or venison used and smoked fish produced.

Tom Sawyer

Yes, shame on you.^^ I looked into it once more and it cannot be solved. The minus effect was already not appealing and this latest bug is not nice at all. I turned on manual switching of production and uploaded version 2. It also works faster now without delays as before and still keeps all raw food inside the cabin when switched. I also added an option to empty the smokehouse for full control. Available for download on banishedventures.com/smokehouse.

Thank you for test-smoking! :)

MarkAnthony

#724
Good morning!

It took me two and a half hours but I read all thirty-two pages in this thread!   ???

For future reference, if I have any questions about something when playing with your North mod, should I ask them here or just start a new topic post in Mod Talk or Mod Discussions? Also, what's the difference between them - they both have the save forum description?

Until I get an answer to the proper place to ask questions regarding North, please permit me to ask one North question now, and one basic Banished question too if I may.

My North question is this: I am having an issue placing the Crayfish structure - I am unable to find anywhere to put it down and have tried many many places with many rotations and just...can't get it down!

I am playing with the Anders and Ella start with the Norseman aging mod. Things are considerably slow again (compared to no aging mod). Anyhow, I'm doing alright I think. But there comes a time when I want this item but I have to build that structure to get it and then that structure needs another structure and so on.  (Blacksmithing (tools), I'm looking at you!!!)  Eventually I have more things built than I have workers for obviously.

My general question is: When is it better to reduce the number of workers to zero or to turn work off by using the Work button? What's the difference actually? The only thing I notice when using the Work button is the citizens get question marks over their heads because they hate being unemployed and well frankly, I don't like seeing those question marks either - so I got in the habit of instead of using the Work button I just reduce the workers to zero instead.

And like this other Lady (I forget where in the 32 pages of this thread she commented) I too get stumped at times between how structures/workers are linked to one another. I often have to cycle through all the structures/professions that I think are linked and fiddle with the worker counts to get everyone where I intend them to be.

Thanks.               


EDIT: Okay I think I have my answer to the crayfish problem I had. On @Tom Sawyer 's website I read a reply he made to someone else's question regarding traders. Tom said, "They can also use brooks if necessary but those shortcuts can easily be blocked by water mills or crayfishers."

So yeah, I was trying to place the Crayfish structure along the rivers and lakes, not those brooks.

Thanks Tom.  ;)
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

QuoteMy general question is: When is it better to reduce the number of workers to zero or to turn work off by using the Work button? What's the difference actually? The only thing I notice when using the Work button is the citizens get question marks over their heads because they hate being unemployed and well frankly, I don't like seeing those question marks either - so I got in the habit of instead of using the Work button I just reduce the workers to zero instead.

In this case, I find it´s better to reduce the number of that profession to 0, just as you found out. But it´s also useful to use the turn off button. I´ll take an example from the North. The small bloomery uses a blacksmith, so does the workplace from the smith; two different sites using the same profession. Now at the beginning for sure, you don´t want to employ more than one blacksmith and to control at which site he works, you need to close the other (or be lucky that he starts to work at the one you wanted).

How do you like the North? It´s different, isn´t it? With Norsemen you can also work with the happiness; I can say; it pays off to try to make your Bannis happy early.

MarkAnthony

Quote from: Nilla on June 30, 2019, 11:08:18 AM
In this case, I find it´s better to reduce the number of that profession to 0, just as you found out. But it´s also useful to use the turn off button.

How do you like the North? It´s different, isn´t it?
I understand the example you gave for using the Work button for when two or more professions are linked. But how was it originally meant to function in Banished vanilla? The only linked jobs there I can think of is crop fields and orchards via the Farmer profession.

I mean, you click the Work button to off and then the citizen who worked there gets a question mark icon over their head. What's the point of that? What I mean is, when I was playing Banished vanilla and I had a citizen or two with the question mark over their head I would say to them, "Okay, so you're not a Blacksmith anymore... sorry!  But here, I opened up a spot for you in the crop fields tending to my pumpkins!"  But that citizen never goes to work there, he just roams around the map doing nothing that I've noticed. If they are unemployed then why not jump to the next job that opened up?  I mean, how was this originally intended to work in Banished vanilla?

And yeah, I like the North.  This is my 3rd attempt though.  :(   First I tried with the Farmer start, I think they died off due to cold. Then my second attempt was with the Sheppard start and I got a bit further, but still... died of cold.  My third start is using Anders and Ella and I've gone much, much farther but came awfully close to killing them in my attempts to get blacksmithing going to make tools which I desperately need. All five "health hearts" were greyed out and I knew it would be a matter of seconds.  So I stopped everything having to do with Blacksmithing and got them working elsewhere and they are back up to 2.5 hearts but... this doesn't solve my tool problem!!!

So from what I see anyone who works at the coal burner and/or blacksmith in North is doomed to die? My Bloomery and Coal Burner are right next to the Blacksmith sharing two stockpiles.  I decided to relocate the Coal Burner about 10-15 spaces back.  Maybe that will make a difference but it still seems like whomever is sent to work there needs to write out a Will first... for they're gonna die! 
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

I don´t think you´ve really understood what the hearts stand for, have you? They are not more likely to die than anyone else. (or maybe a little more likely because if I remember it right, they might catch a disease a little more often but you will hardly notice) The hearts disappear when they don´t have a balanced diet. It has nothing to do with the profession they have. The consequence of bad health is lower production because the unhealthy Banni will now and then stop working to go to the herbalist, also when there is no herbalist. If you have one, he will grab a herb and take a (sometimes long) walk to the herbalist and regain ½  heart, that he soon will lose again if he hasn´t a balanced diet. If there´s no herbalist he will only stop work for a moment and then go back to business; it takes much shorter. That´s why I seldom use a herbalist. But I try to have a balanced diet good distributed all over the place.

The black circle around the coal burner has nothing to do with the hearts. It detracts happiness for those who live inside or rather makes it harder to regain all 5 stars in Norseman. With 3 stars the Bannis idle much more than with 5. That´s why I wrote that it pays off to try to make them happy.

Nilla

I actually came here to this thread because I want to ask @Tom Sawyer if it´s deliberate or not, that no merchant (as far as I can see) brings tallow. In my present town, I want to support as many inhabitants as possible on a small map. I had an idea of replacing some firewood with coal, so I will need less space for log production. But it looks like the production is limited to the amount of tallow I can produce from my pastures (if I can´t afford to buy expensive lamp oil). Intentional?

MarkAnthony

Quote from: Nilla on June 30, 2019, 01:29:50 PM
I don´t think you´ve really understood what the hearts stand for, have you? They are not more likely to die than anyone else. (or maybe a little more likely because if I remember it right, they might catch a disease a little more often but you will hardly notice) The hearts disappear when they don´t have a balanced diet. It has nothing to do with the profession they have.
But I try to have a balanced diet good distributed all over the place.
The black circle around the coal burner has nothing to do with the hearts. It detracts happiness.
"They are not more likely to die than anyone else." -- Good to know, thanks.

"The hearts disappear when they don´t have a balanced diet. It has nothing to do with the profession they have."  I don't know about this, not sure if I agree with what I am seeing in game. I agree about the diet part, that's obvious -- just seems type of job is having an effect too.

Before I built the Bloomery and Char Burner and Blacksmith my two adults had 3.5 red hearts, their child had 4 red hearts. Then I built those three buildings and would operate them one at a time because one would work the turnip farm, the other would do all the blacksmithing duties. The one who did all the blacksmithing duties dropped down to 1.5 hearts, then 1 heart then 1/2 heart. Thinking I was killing her I put a stop to those three jobs. After a bit her red hearts started to build up again.  But I needed tools, still haven't gotten any made yet because I am going through the motions of all three buildings. As bad as I felt about putting her health at risk, I sent her back in and quickly thereafter her hearts started dropping again.  Eventually they were all greyed out. I waited just a tad bit longer, pushing my luck ....and then I pulled her out.  After maybe 15-20 minutes her red hearts were back to about 1.5 to 2.5.  Nothing about their diet has changed, they had the same diet before those jobs as they did after. I actually thought it was the char burner killing her you know, like black lung disease that miners get *cough, cough* etc. because the one working the farm and the kid, their hearts were a tiny bit lower but very healthy as opposed to the one doing the char burner.

I'm sure you're right, you have years and tons more experience than I do with Banished. It just doesn't match up with what I think I'm seeing in game. But good to know five grey hearts does not = instant death LOL.

"The black circle around the coal burner has nothing to do with the hearts. It detracts happiness." - I already knew this.
               
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

brads3

in the North climate,you do need to micro manage better you do need more firewood to heat the houses. the happiness side of the game was never completed by LUKE. TOM did a good job of making it more imprtant.  it also does affect productivity by the workers a ton more.lack of education has a greater affect on some workers. that can slow down tools and clothing  as well. don't let the 1 year growth pace fool. you there is more to be done each year up in the North.

    as for the turn off a workplace or decrease the workers debate. if you build a hunter hut and already have 1 hunter working,the hunter can switch spots.if the house isn't built before the next workplace,you will need to disable the 2nd hunter to prevent that if not,the 1st hunter would rake time from hunting to walk way over to the new hunting area.both ways do serve a purpose even in a vanilla game. when food is not available,you can disable the gatherer and force them to be laborers. otherwise they might go idle or waunder around.keeping them assigned to the job keeps them at jobs near their house.

       why your farmer didn't work is most likely due to them being sent farther away to work as a laborer. if he leaves to go collect stone,he might not get back in time to plant.not only is the growing season shorter but planting is ater up north. with the nordic climate that i am using,planting is at 35 degrees usually late spring.the bannies can work thru late winter. i do want them idle near their fields by mid spring. lots of years, i send them to cut trees or gather food near the fgarm village. dont worry about where the main laborers are.the farmers do the assigned work closest to them keeping them near the fields.

theonlywanderer

Quote from: MarkAnthony on June 30, 2019, 09:58:18 AM
When is it better to reduce the number of workers to zero or to turn work off by using the Work button? What's the difference actually?

When you don't have enough workers and you have to constantly switch them between jobs, you have no choice but to lower the number of workers to free them up for reassignment.

Turning off work for a job is no different then running out of stock or fulfilling quantities, they will turn in to laborers, but not be available for reassignment to any other job and won't show up in your laborer count.   This method works when you have a decent population and plenty of people to fill all jobs.   The ?'s serve simply as an alert that you have people assigned to unavailable jobs.   Using the work/no work button is the quickest way to manage overproduction if a specific item is clogging up all your storage.   Turn it off and as soon as you need more turn it on and the existing workers are right back at it.    It's basically a simple way to know that those people are already accounted for, they have jobs.

Problem is, the ?'s could also indicate that a certain shop was demolished and you simply forgot to remove them from that job or that too many are assigned to particular job.   Also, when mines are depleted, they will automatically stop work and all extra workers will show up as ?'s.

Tom Sawyer

Welcome to the banishment @MarkAnthony! :)

Crayfishing can be indeed a bit of a puzzle if you are trying it the first time. Iron working too. With the question mark it's so that a worker keeps his profession also if you close his workplace. In this case he is still a blacksmith and looking for a new workplace. If no suitable place is available they do laborer work and will join a workplace of their profession when possible. Until this they show you to miss a proper job. That can be used as Nilla wrote to let a blacksmith switch between smithy and bloomery for example.

Looking into the tallow file, it's not an import good @Nilla. I don't remember if it was intentionally but I don't really see a reason why it should not be traded.

brads3

Nilla probably had you take the tallow out back when she wanted all the produced items removed from the merchant boats. it musrt be nice to have boats that bring you what you need every time instead of them bringing all produced goods for several years. mine are constantly bringing jewelry,gems,or some other item i don't need.

Tom Sawyer

Now when you say it Brad, I think I'm sure that Nilla wanted me to take it out again. ;D