Author Topic: Nilla-testing the North6  (Read 13812 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2017, 09:05:21 AM »
@Hawk you can see it on the first picture; cut in on the left side, mixed with the other menus. Yes @brads3 the North was always beatiful. :)

Offline Hawk

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2017, 09:19:06 AM »
Ah yes! I saw it this time when I looked.  :-[ ;D
Hawk

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2017, 06:54:00 AM »
Year 9. This small settlement prospers in all ways. You may have noticed, that I named the place "Lugnet", that's Swedish for tranquility. I'm not so sure, that this place is that peaceful now, with 3 small children! House full! I came to a point, where I had do make some decisions:

Do I want the settlement to grow a little bit faster? Yes! To wait until the oldest child moves out, will take too long.

Will I build a chapel or a house to achieve this? A house! Some of you may ask; how can a house make the population grow, if there's no one there to move in? I'll answer; of cause there's someone who will move in. I can force this poor couple to separate. And odd enough, if they separate; there will be more children. And I like to make the start of this game to a real prosperous family farmsted.

So I "fixed" the weird herbalist workplace, with its flying roof, the way it was meant to be. And as I fortold; the husband moved out in the woods and took the two younger kids with him. And it didn't take long, until a fourth and then a fifth child was born. (First picture) I wonder, how @Abandoned  would have manage to bind this into a story! ;)

Not much other things have happened; it has been easy for the two adults to support all these children, and now when the elder children starts to help, it's not getting harder. The store was more or less full, so I built another one close to the first house and also a third out in the woods.

But also this plan reach it's end. After the 6th child, the house is full again. (second picture) But the oldest is old enough to move out, so there will soon be room for another baby.  :P

Since your last visit to Lugnet, only one building is added; a salter.

Young Houstone is very happy in his new beautiful house in the birch grove. (third picture)

I never liked the look of these mixed stockpiles. Here I've built several small specialised piles. This way I find it doesn't look bad.

Somehow the trade has become too powerful. I mainly sell blueberries, mushrooms and herbs. And the family could start to build a small fortune of silver and gold. The changes of the merchants and the prices might have been too "good" = not so good.


Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2017, 07:22:49 AM »
with a pure A&E start and no nomad catcher,that trick is your only option.you are limited with no mods.delaying the school will bring the educationlevel down but the extra work that 1 or 2 do helps more than hinders so early in game. that makes it go faster than if they were in school.
     TOM did a nice job designing those crates for the piles. they look much better than the vanilla way. you could use KID's coverings and cover them. that mod wouldn't effect the game play.
      what limit flag does the gold and silver use? can you sell nuggets or does it need to be refined? CC has ore and it is processed into coins or bars.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2017, 08:17:02 AM »
In this new North, the education has a lower impact than vanilla. Many profession, like laborer and farmer may as well be uneducated. (By the way, the parents are uneducated, too). Toolmaking is a bit of a loss, so I plan to buy tools, as soon as a merchant bring some.

Gold and silver has it's own flag, on the bottom in the right column (here 0 because I store everything in the trading dock). You can use it to trade. I think @Tom Sawyer deliberately made it that way. Silver (and maybe if you were really rich and made large business gold) was historically used to trade with, counted in weight. It can't be processed, at least not yet. But making coins, was a monopol for the king in my country, so I think a Banished village would get trouble, if they tried to make their own coins.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2017, 11:37:04 AM »
That's a nice map you have picked @Nilla and always nice to follow for new ideas and balancing.

Gold and silver are flagged together in Custom6 @brads3. Just like CC and other mods do it.

Following this map I also have the impression that gold is a bit "OP" and can make the early game boring if too much can be bought right from the start. I also think it can be more convenient for trading with lower values. So I want to make two changes. First, removing gold from mountain slopes to limit this trading push to gold from rivers. It is still enough to buy the first seeds and livestock as well as food and tools for a couple of years. And people who like to get more gold can start as gold-seekers.

For the second change I think about a splitting of gold and silver by 4. The original idea was to use historical values counted in ounces. As mentioned on a wiki page, in the old days a cow (400 by the value of its meat) was payed by 2 ounces of silver (200) and 1 once of gold by 8 ounces of silver = 1600. The silver penning was used as well and minted in about 20 of an ounce (1.5 gram silver) = value of 10 in game. Since most players consider gold as nuggets and not as ounce it may be better to get not 1 ounce but 3 - 4 nuggets from a spot with a value of 400 each. Silver is then split to 50 which means a quarter ounce and the smallest unit of hacksilver as it was used to pay with. The silver penning can keep its value. And even minted by a smith in 5 from a silver piece for a smallest unit of currency and better trading or vice versa melt down to silver. If the king allows it. ;D

The price of cattle I have already increased to 600 which is the value of its meat in preserved food. Makes more sense since you get no fresh meat from merchants anymore but salted or smoked or just in living form where it is preserved perfectly.^^

I'm looking forward to the development of this town and I'm glad that bugs of the first release are solved so far.

Offline Maldrick

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2017, 12:52:38 PM »
@Tom Sawyer From reading the end of your post, question...Can you limit what arrives by trade boat?  I'm assuming things can be limited from export since food and ale can't be used to trade for certain things in the vanilla game.  Certain things have less value when reading for particular goods too.  But can you disallow some things from being imported also?

Haven't played your mod and not sure if there's no raw meat or you have disallowed it from import, is why I ask.

My imagination is running wild with this concept.
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2017, 03:39:05 PM »
Is running wild something good or bad?^^ I'm not a native speaker. But yes, it can be defined now by new flags if a resource is an import good or not.

Offline Maldrick

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2017, 05:13:48 PM »
Is running wild something good or bad?^^ I'm not a native speaker. But yes, it can be defined now by new flags if a resource is an import good or not.

Oh, it's good. :)  I'm fascinated with what can be modded.  Thank you.

Sorry for the sidetrack!
"We are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.”
― Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2017, 01:55:12 AM »
I don't think you need to put all too much effort in getting historically correct values of different coins. I googeld a bit yesterday and it's VERY confusing. The weight of silver in a mark/daler/penning/öre/örtung........... varied from region to region and over the time. The same thing about how many of a smaller coin unit made a larger. And this was only Sweden! So the most correct thing historically, would be that a Bansihed society had their own values. (OK, to be totally historically correct, it ought to be changed a couple of times during a longer game but I guess we can live without that).  ;)

I'll tell you a little more about the development of the settlement later.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2017, 09:13:54 AM »
A few pictures from yesterday. I didn´t only struggle with markets.

First picture

My mainhouse was soon full again. Mother and 4 small children. 7 children so far, the eldest in a house of his own, two more by the father in the forest. So I let them move in together again. Now the second eldest child moved to the forest house, so I had to build one more. And again; they did exactly what I wanted; the father took the 3 youngest children and moved to the new house. Now there's room for more babies!  :o

Second picture

Here you can see the reason, that I started my experimenting with the wagon vendor and other markets. I made the mistake to put the baking house in one end of the small settlement. Bread is mostly stored in the barn next doors. That means, that the new house and the forest house never had any grain. That's what I wanted to solve with a market. That's also the reason, that I payed attention and saw that the grain products were missing in the stores.

You can also see, that I've tidied things up a bit; and built fences around the pastures. Some time, I find that the housing for sheep and cows ought to be replaced in a more Nordic style. A traditional "Fähus" would be nice. 

Third picture

Here you can see, that there's no grain in any of the markets (to test, I replaced the wagon vendor with a red store.) So, no market will solve my tiny problems. (I refuse to test the big vanilla market). That's the reason I went back to a save before I started these experiments.

Fourth pictures

And this is how I solved the "grain problem" : A barley field between those two houses. A better way than a market anyway. You don't really need a market for 4 houses, but I wanted to test.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2017, 11:41:15 AM »
Yes, vendors really have problems with this grain concept. I see no way to solve it and will go back to standard. That also means to have edible rye and wheat again. It also means to remove the managed granary from my roadmap for now but its ok and good to have solved this issue. Thank you for researching it!

These cool wagon vendors will work perfectly after the next minor update. I got code from Discrepancy and can adapt them. You will not want any other market in your Viking village anymore.^^

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2017, 12:39:01 PM »
i agree with NILLA that inedible foods can lead to starving bannies with a barn full of grain.however,i do know many players like the concept.i may have a solution. simialr to KID's garden vegetable mod.introduce a new crop seed,call it "mill grain".this seed will produce mill grain which could be inedible.the only issue would be no other mills except yours would grind it. the other modded mills would still be abe to use nomal wheat though.at least this way someone playing from an A&E start would know not to buy the seed from the merchant since they have nobody to work the mill.mill grain crop would just be a combination of rye,wheat,and oat plants. this way you also would see a difference in the inventory so you realize you don't have all the extra grain as food.
          i don't have much experience with in-edibles,as i think like NILLA.i do have sap that is both.CC is edible and NECORA'S is not. both require a different boiler to make syrup.i did have KID's workplace grinder make flour that wasn't edible before.i do say it was nice to have the stockpile,once i realized it wasn't helping my food stash. the fort workers do like their hardtack. the concept does have its uses.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2017, 06:24:18 AM »
Again upgraded mod. Again new game.  :-\

I don't really mind, I like the start of a game, but sometimes it would be fun to play a map a bit longer. So, @Tom Sawyer; please no new incompatible upgrades in the next couple of weeks! ;)

First picture

This time I choose the "survivor" start. And I had forgotten, how hard it was to prevent everyone from freezing to death. I needed three attempts to make it. The secret is to let them cut exactly the amount of wood and stone that's needed at once; not too little (as I did the first time with stone), not too much (as I did the second time). There's just about time to cut the right amount of material, go to the woods and collect 2 pieces of firewood and build the house with 4 builders.

It's also more difficult to produce the initial tools than it was. First they are all uneducated, and by toolmaking the uneducated penalty is still there. You need much more rawmaterial, because 1/4 is "spoiled" in each step. You also need clay to build the little smelter. I like to put this indestructible clay pit a bit far away from the living area; maybe a mistake, because it was winter and not everyone had clothes, so it took very long to get these 2 clay.

Second picture

It took a while, but now everyone have clothes and tools, Ther's even some spare tools, when the first get worn out. The second family are about to get a home.

It's always a point, but choosing the right starting position, playing these difficult start conditions is important. I knew this one could be tricky, but I somehow liked the little peninsula, and a real challenge has never scared me much. But I must say; it's much harder to support the families with food and firewood, than in my last game, where the close forest was much larger. Here 4 adults have difficulties to support 6 children. In my last game 2 adults had no problem supporting their 6 children.

Third picture

Now we have a trading port and have managed to buy some turnip seeds.  :) There's also a fisher and a herbalist outside this picture.

Another thing to think about (at least if you don't have any sheep from the start) is that there's enough deer at the starting position. Here it's not that good. I only hunt as much as needed to get clothes, and that's hard enough. Still the close deer are almost gone. On that other map; they were everywhere. Stupid enough, I also forgot to order sheep, as the merchant was here.  :-[ >:(

I just read what I wrote so far and it sounds a lot like complains, but actually: I like it. It's hard but, possible. Exactly my kind of game! :)

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2017, 01:39:08 PM »
Yes, the first release of this version was a bit unlucky. Things wanted to be fixed and in most cases it cannot be save compatible. If there will be a next major update I will introduce it as a beta version for first test flights. But I am glad that we now have a stable and balanced North for 1.0.7. I am also glad the survival mode can still challenge you. ;D