Author Topic: Using Wheat to make Ale  (Read 16081 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Using Wheat to make Ale
« on: June 23, 2014, 07:46:31 AM »
Ok, we all know that using wheat to make ale is dumb.

Except, it isn't always.

I spend a great deal of my time (micromanagement in trading for fruit at 9 TPs) and storage space (for tens of thousands of imported fruit each year) making ale from fruit at 17 breweries.

I have tens of thousands of wheat (as well as corn, beans, etc) in storage. What I am having a hard time with is finding storage space for the fruit I import for ale production, as well as for the huge amount of food I produce annually from more than 200 farms.

So, I can alleviate two problems by switching a number of my breweries from fruit to wheat.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 08:30:44 AM by irrelevant »

Offline mariesalias

  • Founder
  • Trader
  • *****
  • Posts: 455
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 11:00:06 AM »
Is the conversion for wheat different from fruit? I haven't paid too much attention to Taverns, except to note that berries are not efficient for it. In my farming challenge town I have so much overstock of wheat I am making ale from it to trade for food and logs, as my woodcutters do not want to keep up with the demand for firewood even though they should be.

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9498
  • Country: ca
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 11:11:54 AM »
the problem i have about taking wheat to make ale is the fact they take 100 wheat for 10 ale. 1 brewer can raze a huge reserve of wheat in few seconds (or months i mean). and after when you notice all wheat gone and you check your ale ?? very very few.  :'(

it is :

10 wheat per ale
6 berries per ale
or 3 of apple/peach/plum/ect per ale

i think it s better to sell 10,000 wheat for 10,000 apples (same price 1:1) you ll get 333% more
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 11:15:31 AM by RedKetchup »
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline mariesalias

  • Founder
  • Trader
  • *****
  • Posts: 455
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 11:33:49 AM »
I thought Berries were the ones that took 10 per. I must have mixed up the numbers. :D

Usually I only use fruit, but as I said, my current town is producing so much wheat (and corn) that I need to get rid of some of it! I will keep this in mind though as food becomes more of an issue.


ETA:  I am also maintaining large stockpiles of fruits from trading meats, but you have a point about efficiency.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 11:35:44 AM by mariesalias »

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9498
  • Country: ca
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 11:57:31 AM »
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 12:07:30 PM »
In my farming challenge town I have so much overstock of wheat I am making ale from it to trade for food and logs, as my woodcutters do not want to keep up with the demand for firewood even though they should be.

This is one of the issues I have had trouble with too. In my case the problem was first the declining supply of logs, and then once I ramped up imports the distribution of logs from the TPs to the choppers.

The overstock of wheat combined with a general lack of storage space is why I am thinking of using the mountains of wheat to make ale.


i think it s better to sell 10,000 wheat for 10,000 apples (same price 1:1) you ll get 333% more

Ordinarily it would be, except for the whole storage issue; I don't want to keep 10,000 wheat stocked at a TP waiting for the fruit vendor to arrive. In the meantime I also need to buy logs, coal, iron, wool, leather....and for that I need ale. I believe that ale is very high in value in relation to the amount of space it consumes at the TP.

Does anyone know how much ale "weighs" per unit?

edit: Ale apparently weighs only 1 per unit. That means that a TP with 9,999 ale (the max of a single item you can place in one TP) has a trade value of ~80,000, compared with the ~10,000 trade value of the same amount of wheat.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 05:39:48 AM by irrelevant »

Offline slink

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1222
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 12:08:57 PM »
The alcoholic production of the materials seems to be related to the ease of obtaining them.

I agree though, that tremendous amounts of food disappear into taverns, never to be seen again.  I suppose it makes a decent trade good, but I've never seen it have any effect on my populations.

One can trade wheat for logs, coal, iron, wool, and leather.

Offline Paeng

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
  • Country: de
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 01:32:12 AM »
Well, looking at the chart here -
http://banishedinfo.com/t/Trade_calculator/production

it shows that you are even losing money when trading ale made from wheat...
At 100 product cost it will bring 80 (8 x 10), a loss of -20 (or -0.2 profit ratio).


I suppose it makes a decent trade good

Yeah, ale made from Fruit brings in a good price...
At 30 product cost it will bring 80 (8 x 10), a profit of 50 (or 1.667 profit ratio)...

Only Wool (2) and Firewood (7) ratios are higher...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 01:35:26 AM by Paeng »
Heads are round so thoughts can take a turn

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2014, 05:24:26 AM »
I understand I'm losing money. It isn't about money.

My citizens don't consume all the food I produce (plus they eat half the fruit I buy for ale production). My barns, markets, and houses are full of wheat (and beans and corn and fruit). It's about freeing up storage space.

I can either build more barns and fill them up too, or I can do something useful with it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 05:37:35 AM by irrelevant »

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9498
  • Country: ca
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2014, 09:27:24 AM »
i would build a new trading post just for that. 10k wheat in inventory and autobuy 10k of fruits (or something else)
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline rkelly17

  • Founder
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
  • Country: ca
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2014, 09:32:52 AM »
Far be it from me to claim any expertise at all in trading. I feel like I'm always  on the edge of disaster when I'm dependent on trade for essentials. What I am doing in my 500 farmer town is growing massive amounts of cherries (they were the first fruit I had available) to supply my taverns. Since the challenge is to get over 500 farmers, I'm not as frugal with them as I might be otherwise. I do have quite a bit of wheat (also corn, beans and cabbage--wish the traders took sauerkraut), but I'm a bit afraid to ferment it because of a bad experience in my early playing of Banished (Can we say "spiral of death," class?). I'm having the same issue as @irrelevant: I'm not getting in enough logs for firewood, building and tool making. Now I'm buying firewood and coal (as well as running 4 coal mines) to try and keep everybody warm. I have plenty of cherry ale  ::) to sell, but the traders are not bringing enough logs.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 09:57:42 AM »
I'm buying 90% of my fruit, so that is second on my autotrade priority (after logs); for some reason I dislike orchards. I hate it when they start looking ragged. I know, I'm a wacko.

I'm going to experiment with wheat into ale and see how it goes. I'll also give packing one TP with wheat a try, just for @RedKetchup  ;)

Offline Paeng

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
  • Country: de
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 01:57:27 PM »
for some reason I dislike orchards. I hate it when they start looking ragged.

 ;D yeah, same here...

also I find orchards absolutely unpredictable in terms of yield... once they look ragged, their results are really spurious - one year I get 780, the next 320, the one after 460... nothing I can really work with or make a plan... on top of that, I have not figured out a good way to get most of the harvest to my brewers - so much disappears into barns, markets and private households... and that poor brewer does not really have much chance against the vendors with their fat carts...

Have you found a good strategy to supply your breweries with fruit?
Heads are round so thoughts can take a turn

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 03:57:31 PM »
Where possible the 21 breweries are placed at the 9 ports with barns adjacent, or at the markets nearest the ports, and I buy as much fruit as I can. I've standardized on plum and cherry and place orders for both. Some boats bring 12-16,000 fruit. The brewers rarely run out, only if I get a really bad string of seed and livestock merchants.

The citizens still eat tons. Not sure how much I'm buying in a year; last year 22,800 fruit went into ale production. Right now there's 15,000 fruit in homes, and 150,000 food total. Current pop is 1900+, so that's about 9 months' consumption.

Based on that I'd guess I'm buying 40-45,000 fruit. If you count all that against what the ale is bringing in (maybe 60,000) it's not great. But citizens need fruit, so I'd be buying tons of it anyway since I'm hardly producing any.

Offline Paeng

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1283
  • Country: de
Re: Using Wheat to make Ale
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 04:20:06 PM »
Thanks... yeah, I'll have to change a bit. I had tried to set up a system where my markets would get most fruit from my local orchards, and the brewers get the imports... but that bogged down pretty fast  :o
Heads are round so thoughts can take a turn