Author Topic: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09-10-11  (Read 9558 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2018, 01:26:19 AM »
I don't think, that it has anything to do with a fire or some other disaster: The crash always comes the same time, when I start that save, until I demolish that one field (or rather make it smaller). After demolishing, it's no more crash to that time. I have tried it several times, always the same.

In one of my last North games, I had a crash as a tornado destroyed a modded building. But when I restarted the game, of cause there was no tornado. I'm pretty sure it's the same with a fire. If you have a fire and go back to a save and restart the game, there might be a fire, but not at the same building. Besides, when I start that game after I've demolished the field, there's no fire (or other disaster) This bug is something else.

I don't know where to find a crash dump. The notification says a path under Banished, but I don't find any file "crash dump". I know I've been looking for that before, when I wanted to "clean" the computer.

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2018, 07:12:27 AM »
I don't think, that it has anything to do with a fire or some other disaster: The crash always comes the same time, when I start that save, until I demolish that one field (or rather make it smaller). After demolishing, it's no more crash to that time. I have tried it several times, always the same.

In one of my last North games, I had a crash as a tornado destroyed a modded building. But when I restarted the game, of cause there was no tornado. I'm pretty sure it's the same with a fire. If you have a fire and go back to a save and restart the game, there might be a fire, but not at the same building. Besides, when I start that game after I've demolished the field, there's no fire (or other disaster) This bug is something else.

I don't know where to find a crash dump. The notification says a path under Banished, but I don't find any file "crash dump". I know I've been looking for that before, when I wanted to "clean" the computer.

if you are sure about the crop.... go ahead and continue. let me know if you find another crash :)
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Offline galensgranny

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2018, 08:31:07 AM »
I don't know where to find a crash dump. The notification says a path under Banished, but I don't find any file "crash dump". I know I've been looking for that before, when I wanted to "clean" the computer.


I have an old crash.dmp file in my Banished folder, under the WinData folder.  So that must be where they get put.  It has a lot of strange symbols, but there are words interspersed that have file names.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2018, 10:38:20 AM »
I will go on with this game tomorrow, @RedKetchup and play until the map is full. I hope with no more crash, or maybe we should hope for another crash, to be able to find out the reason. Anyway I'll let you know.

@galensgranny; there's nothing like that in my Windata file, I don't know the suffix of the crash dump file. It's not .dmp. If I search for *.dmp nothing is found.

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2018, 10:58:55 AM »
crash.dmp direct in Banished folder (not bin nor windata, direct at root of the game)
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Offline galensgranny

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2018, 11:57:12 AM »
Nilla, I did not mean the crash.dmp file was inside the Windata folder.  It was listed underneath it.  They are both contained inside the main Banished folder on my C drive- where programs are.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2018, 08:48:06 AM »
I can't still find any .bmp files. My computer can't either when I ask him to search. (Note; it's a he; unrealable, incomprehensible, enigmatic, irresistible ;) )

But I also had no more crashes (maybe I should rebuild that field, to see what happens).

There's not much to tell about the game. It works fine, I'm in an easy part of the game. I have enough of everything, except sometimes when I screw up; say I have too much glass and close the glassworks temporarily and wonder after some time, why no houses are built. Out of glass! I've forgotten to turn it on again. Since I know, that such things may happen, I always have a good store of sand, so the production can start fast and tings soon work normal again.

I will try to make this settlement sustainable; possible to run a long time, if I want to. That's the reason, I've build less houses. I'm not sure, how many people this land can support; 1000 will be no problem. I have 900 already and still area to develop. Maybe around 1500 as maximum. We will see. 

First picture

I've looked at the balancing of the fodder- fertilizer-food chain. It's not so easy. There's one fodder farmer. When I had two stables (with 2 worker each) the amount of fodder grew, with 3 *2 it's not enough fodder. The same thing with green houses; with 2 greenhouses to each stable, the store of fertilizer grows. Now with totally 8 greenhouses they don't get enough fertilizer.

I will now take one worker away and close one or two greenhouses and see how it works. In any case; the amount of food, you can get from this spot of land using fodder is now getting closer to fields, when they no longer "steal" the fodder to heat homes.

Again; request to you @RedKetchup ; take the fertilizer away from normal barns. It seems like the Bannis like to spread fertilizer to every possible barn; looks like they find, that a barn without fertilizer is no good barn!  :-\

Second picture

I find, the market looks better with the roads like this, than if you put stones on every possible tile.

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2018, 08:55:51 AM »

Again; request to you @RedKetchup ; take the fertilizer away from normal barns. It seems like the Bannis like to spread fertilizer to every possible barn; looks like they find, that a barn without fertilizer is no good barn!  :-\

Second picture

I find, the market looks better with the roads like this, than if you put stones on every possible tile.

ok gonna check what i can do.
i agree for the market :)
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2018, 05:16:09 AM »
Thank you @RedKetchup !

This map is slowly getting full. I decided to make another fodder farmer. Maybe not the most efficient way to use limited space, but I like it. And this is no attempt to break any records. I just want to get into the "end of the game", if there is any. We can see by the very interesting experiments from @smurphys7, that the end is far away, no matter what. ;)

I have one more request. It's a general request to all modder not only to you @RedKetchup. It's something from the vanilla game, that I want to get rid of in the mods. It's the number of workers, set in a building from the start. I would like it to always be one and that you in all buildings have to increase the number manually.

I'll explain what I mean. Let's take a mine as example. If you build a mine the default number of miners is set to 10. You can increase it to 20 if you want to. When you build your first mine, the number doesn't matter. You have no miners and probably not enough laborers to send 10 to the mine. Say we can afford 4 miners. After a while you want a second mine. If you haven't changed the number in your first mine, half of your miners will disappear from the first mine and start to mine for iron ore in the second mine as soon as this is built. Most of the time you don't want it that way.

If the starting number of workers was 1 in every building, also in those where you can use 20 or more, this would never happen. The second mine wouldn't start to work until you've set the right product and the number of miners you want there and have assigned them. The first group stays where it is. It gives you a much better control.

In this game it's especially annoying by the markets. It's so different how many vendors you use. Often I start a new area by building a market. In such a case, no one lives here and you only need one vendor here to slowly fill the market in the time houses are built. On big markets with a lot of houses I might have 15. I don't want some of them to sneak away to a new built market without my allowance! ;)

The same with bakeries and dryers, you can use 2 bakers (!) in each. That's OK, but I want the default number to be one, but possible to increase. What happens when you build a new bakery? One baker from another site moves there and start to produce bread. I don't want bread, I want cake. The same the dryer; one baker moves there and start to search the whole settlement for beef, but I have a lot of fish, I wan to dry. With 1 baker default, this would never happen. When the building is done, you set the right product and if you want to increase the number, you'll do it at the same time.

I would prefere vanilla fisher, gatherer, forester......... to have only 1 worker from the start, too and that you always have to increase the number manually.

Am I the only one who want it this way?

Picture

I only made one screenshot yesterday. I wanted to ask about the bath house. It's a very nice building. The Bannis love it. You can see the many people. But what is its purpose? They don't seem to be happier by it.

The dentist and barber seem to work like a hospital. That's fine. But the bath house use a worker, so I can't imagine that it's a hospital.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2018, 07:40:13 AM »
i actually agree with you.i would add farmers to your list too. on a 10x10 field the vanilla way adds 2 workers per crop field. RED's game does add 2 to orchards.not only does this way pull a worker as NILLA explained ,it also screws up the count.
        we are experienced players and are used to it more. a new player will place many workplaces,mines,or fields at a time. since the game pulls workers to the new field or work spot,something clear across the map stops working. if it is a field, this means you are now losing food.since generally by the time the new field is cleared it is too late to plant. if those new fields are set to 2 ,that is 2 fields each that are shut down.you are losing a ton of food. if the player does catch 1 field not working,then he tries to fix it.but it is easy to place 3 fields and not remember how many. under harsh settings without using the pause button,NILLA would have frozen crops in the time it takes to locate and reset all the fields.
         banished isn't a game that is played in 1 day.a map is played over days or weeeks.hard to remember what we did yesterday let alone last week.i set 2 workers to 1 market on purpose but which market and why?

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2018, 07:55:00 AM »
nice screenshot :) your town is starting to be well occupied and providing a nice and a very good life to its citizens :)

so at your request, i ve gone everywhere i did put 1 worker by default.
the only place i cannot go without breaking everything is the crops/orchards. they not use a "worker per building" syntax but a "worker by tiles" format which can really screw the production which will make any extra workers go idle in wait the first ones go idle or make errants at their time.
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #101 on: February 28, 2018, 03:57:50 AM »
Thanks for the 1 worker. :) It looks like I wasn't alone by this, when even @brads3 agree! ;) It would have been good, if the fields could have 1 as well but you are right, not worth any risks to get idling farmer in harvest times. Anyhow fields are not so necessary to change. No farmer starts to work on a field directly after it's cleared. You have to choose the crop first and you can set the "right" number of farmers at that time.

But @RedKetchup you didn't answer my question about the bath house. Is it only another idling spot? I like the building, so it would be nice to have a use for it. Maybe you could give it a hospital function as well. It wouldn't be all too weird. A hospital is only used to epidemic times and what would a community do, if there's an epidemic? If the hospitals were full, I guess it would use every possible public building to tend to the sick, also a bath house. The bad thing of cause, would again be idling at the hospital. It is nice to see all the people go to the bath house. So maybe a herbalist who could treat people ,would be better. Or maybe it has a use, that I haven't understood.

I finished this game yesterday evening. Could I support a population of 1500 people on this small spot in a sustainable way? The answer NO/YES! Pick what you want. I only made it with an ugly trick.

It's not enough food there, to support the population in a regular way. I can buy a little, by selling meat and cake but I haven't built this settlement for heavy trading, so there isn't much of these more valuable products and I don't want to rebuild for a "firewood economy". Instead I used another trick. I now produce about the same amount food as they consume and the population is getting down. So, yes that way this is a sustainable settlement.

Look at the last picture and see if you find my trick! ;) Maybe @RedKetchup you could do something to take away this possibility? Or maybe it's good to have a little something for emergency cases.  :-\

First picture

The nice looking candlemaker. Not very profitable, so it will only produce a short time, to make enough candles to upgrade my mines.

Second picture

An overview. I'm sorry! This settlement is built on efficiency, not to look nice.  :-\

Third picture

If we look closer, I still find it pleasant to look at. Just because these buildings are very nice! :)

The map is now full. If you look in the background, behind the sheep pasture, you can see, that I still can find a few unused spots to build some houses.

Fourth picture.

It's a busy town. A long bridge to connect the two sides of the lake makes sense. The population still grows and the food graph doesn't look very promising.  :(

Fifth picture

Problem solved. The population has started to decrease. If you look close, you might find my trick!  :-[ :-\

Online RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #102 on: February 28, 2018, 06:05:28 AM »
bah i think i maybe have a different opinion about all this.

i think it is really a good settlement. you succeed to sustain so many people with so many laborer ? half of your population doesnt have a job !!! imagine if you can double the amount of farmers ! you have 560 laborers ! you can spare another 190 to farmer and you would still have 370 laborers that is still very huge. i think you are producing food way too easy.
although, it could be even better than that, i see no dairyman, and no butcher. you could double the amount of meat. while you are producing the bakery chain, why you dont do it with the dairy chain too ? why that ? is the dairy chain defect or broken ?

The limit of your map is a very big huge lake in the center. it takes out 50% of your land. that's what hurt you and limiting your food capacity and by this, your town capacity. this population would need to get to 2020 and get some future technology to build settlement like at Dubai lol. i know, i know some mods have a medieval version of this ^^ all the docks technology ^^

for the bath house, i know thats a big huge building. it is mainly for RPG lol although it has a real effect. it has the ability to give back health to citizen the exact same way as an herbalist does. the citizens go to the market, pick up an herb, and go to the BathHouse with their herb and take a medicinal bath and get 1/2 heart back. it has also the happiness:health which we know, doesnt have any effect LOL
about disease, it doesnt act as an hospital, you have plently of other tools for that: barbers, clinics, dentists, hospitals....


thanks for reminding me to check about the candle technology numbers....
( EDIT: i see it takes 30 beeswax at 1 value each(30) to make 3-4 candle at 8 value(32). i agree. so now it will take 16 beeswax(16) to make 3-4 candles(32) so it will get the usual double value in next patch. )



about your trick : bah i look alot and didnt found anything, i have no idea what is your trick. :S

« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 06:20:00 AM by RedKetchup »
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Offline Hawk

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #103 on: February 28, 2018, 06:30:09 AM »
It's not enough food there, to support the population in a regular way. I can buy a little, by selling meat and cake but I haven't built this settlement for heavy trading, so there isn't much of these more valuable products and I don't want to rebuild for a "firewood economy". Instead I used another trick. I now produce about the same amount food as they consume and the population is getting down. So, yes that way this is a sustainable settlement.

@Nilla - The jewelry industry can be great to use at traders. You just have to find enough gold and silver ore around the map.
You can also, occasionally buy some gems, gold ore and silver ore at the trader, then make your jewelry from that. It's still profitable but not as much as finding all the gold and silver ore on the map.
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09
« Reply #104 on: February 28, 2018, 06:57:48 AM »
You are right. It's easy to produce a lot of food. That's the reason, I need a little extra something to make a game interesting, like this limited space for a larger population. When you've learned the "tricks", vanilla Banished isn't very hard and normal mods makes it even easier. You talk about the chains yourself. You are right; there are some I haven't used.

Why?

The diary is big. On this map it's all about using the space as good as possible. I also want to mainly support my settlement with things they produce here, not by trade and the diary doesn't make more food, just increases the trade value (if I remember it right).

I have been thinking about a butcher but I don't have very much meat, and it's spread all over the map, so I guess it wouldn't be very efficient. So I decided to put it directly into the trading ports. Maybe it would have payed off a little with a butcher. At the beginning I used to dry some venison but later changed to fish.

That's a good use for the bath house. Wouldn't it be better, if it occupied a herbalist than a worker? I think then we would all understand its use. By the way I'm happy for this. It's much nicer to build a bath house, than a normal herbalist in a town area.

With these numbers you can chose to produce beeswax and candles for export, if you need. I find it good (even if it's maybe not quite realistic) that you can choose between beeswax and honey in the apiary, instead of having both randomly, like CC has (if I remember it right). In my last game I produced everything myself and had more export goods than I could need. In this game I bought logs and stones all the time. For this I more or less, only sold perfume. It was a perfect amount of perfume for this, with one and later after I built the second fodder farmer two sites producing perfume. It would have been more annoying, than good to have a lot of beeswax/candles as well.

And yes @Hawk I did produce and sell a few gold and silver bars but that's really a minor business, not much to get on this small map. In my first game I also had this "random mine" where occasionally some gold, silver and gems were found. I also produced jewelery. It was fun, some profit but not a relable source to support a larger settlement.

You haven't looked carefully, if you don't see, what I did to increase the amount of "food". ;)