Author Topic: Let's talk about markets  (Read 634 times)

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Offline Goblin Girl

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Let's talk about markets
« on: July 28, 2018, 01:33:33 PM »
There are many modded markets available, some with smaller circles and some with larger.  Some are general, and some are specialized in one way or another.  Which do you prefer, and why?
At first when the huge CC central market came out, I used it.  But eventually I stopped, because it seemed inefficient to me, in terms of how far the Bannies had to travel to get their supplies.  Now I most frequently use the vanilla market, or the market puzzle.  The one specialized market I really like is the log merchant.  It solves the problem of having the stockpile near the sawmill running out of logs.
But what am I missing?  Is there an advantage to giant-radius markets that I haven't thought of?  What about all the specialized ones such as a protein market and a fruit market?  Do those actually help or hurt the efficiency and health of the Bannies?
And finally, in terms of how you lay out your town, do you prioritize putting houses or businesses close to the market?  And why do you make the choice you do?

Offline brads3

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2018, 01:56:12 PM »
i use a mixture of mods both 1.06 and 1.07.there are drawbacks to it,such as the log carts will store coal. some depends on what looks good more than function. i use the nordic wharehouse and SLINK's industrial to move stone.the specialized market puzzle from KID,i do use the grain cart to supply mills.i think the efficiency of the mill is better that way than just adding 2 workers to the mill.in a heavey production area,i will use the industrial market to store most items.back it up with a EB farmers market for food and some sheds to store odd items that the older industrial plaza misses.

      the larger the radius the more houses it affects.houses outside that raduis can take items from the closest barn.to compensate for that i try to scatter laborers around the map by building an extra house or 2 in each area.if the area needs 10 workers .i'll place 6 or 7 houses just so there are extra workers.these laborers will drop items and save the working bannies a trip. i also place a wood cutter,blacksmith,and tailor in each area. then the only market really needed is a food vendor to help with health.

       watching different market vendors can be interesting.not all act the same. some will idle more than others.some are helpful to the other bannies more than others. some have been known to go collect items as workers cleared land.each has its own personality.it is tedious to take time to follow them thugh.

Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2018, 02:31:46 PM »
Does using the grain market cause health problems for Bannies living nearby?  I mean, don't they just fill their houses with bread and then start getting sick? 

Offline zak4862

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 02:33:12 PM »
Hi GG!
Personaly I tried allmost all of them. FromCC to Toms Red Cottage North market store. In the end I went back to vanilla. Why...?
Well some of the markets simply have to much stuff in there for my taste - while on the other side one or two of them dont accept certain items because
there are so many mods which are bringing new products in the game.(food,clothes,construction...etc.)So, I decided that for me vanilla is
the most acceptable and simple.
Usually I build a market in front of trading station and I am putting close by also a barn and a big stockpile.Sometimes the trader comes unexpected bringing the
good stuff.And if you dont have enough trading stuff in station - the traders (Bannies) will bring it in very fast. For me that is practical and very effective.
I always put businesses in this area, also just because of practical reasons - Bannies dont have to go far for materials and to bring the products in.
    For market radius I dont care much how big is it, because while playing I have many times checked houses storages. In close by or far houses.And from my experience
there was allmost zero difference in homes supplies.
  So, I like it all this stuff concetrated in one area - make it practical, effective and simple.
        Best regards    zak4862   :)

P.S. I forget one thing. I always build extra barns on the edge of radius.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 02:50:41 PM by zak4862 »

Offline smurphys7

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 03:03:25 PM »
Does using the grain market cause health problems for Bannies living nearby?  I mean, don't they just fill their houses with bread and then start getting sick? 

Yes.

When citizens are looking for a good, or a food, or whatever, they go to the nearest Market with that good.  When citizens are looking for food and end up at a specialized food Market they will only acquire that one type of food.  The citizen will only go to the one market.  Putting a Fruit, Vegetable, Grain and Protein Market all next to each other will NOT allow citizens to have each food group.

Offline brads3

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 03:49:31 PM »
in theory, yes that is correct. i didn't se health issues with it though. it wouldn't affect many houses as a main food market was near by. the mill would pull the grain and empty the small grain market. the amount of food in the cart at any 1 time wouldn't be enough to stock a house for a family. that also would force the house to find more food elsewhere.

Offline embx61

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2018, 06:02:47 PM »
Lots of stuff was developed at players requests.
The modders and the players alike did not really know the outcome of some modded stuff.
It was requested, it seemed possible and it looked all okay.

While some separated markets can be a good thing it also can have some drawbacks it seems.
A player ask for a market what only store grain so he/she can put it right next to a mill who mills it into flour.

The idea is good but because of not knowing the side effects it seems that some bannies in houses nearby only had grain to eat because it was the closest market what only had grain.
Same can happen if a fruit only market is placed next to a tavern with some houses nearby.

Because everything goes by flags it is hard to make a specialized market work really well.
I understand that players want for example a special Hunters market nearby the hunter but because venison is protein all other protein can get stored there as well so no guarantee there will be venison in that market.

With so many more resources added to the game it only became more problematic for storage/markets.
20 flags (With 2 unused since we got them and why they are never put to use is beyond me) have to cover all the resources.
Some flags have only 1 item so are easy to manage but others have tons of them like some food groups and so it can happen that a certain market gets filled with stuff from the same flag but not that one resource the player set that market up for.

It is one of those things I think (And I am part of it) that we want more, more and more stuff but sometimes not think good enough about certain side effects it can cause.
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Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 08:56:44 PM »
The modders and the players alike did not really know the outcome of some modded stuff.
It was requested, it seemed possible and it looked all okay.
I remember those heady days!  I still love this game four years later, and I play at least a couple times a week. 

What you said about some flags having only one item might well be a part of it.  The log merchant really improves the efficiency of a saw mill because logs don't share their flag with anything else.  I guess a tool market that only held logs, iron, and coal might be worth trying too, for the same reason.  I think there probably is one, I just haven't paid attention.  The clothing and textile market I don't like because it fills up with finished clothing eventually, which keeps clothing out of other markets in town, and also doesn't improve the efficiency of a nearby tailor.  Hmm.  I should check to see if there's a textile market that doesn't also hold finished clothing.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 09:03:09 PM »
20 flags (With 2 unused since we got them and why they are never put to use is beyond me)

they are in wait someone has a brilliant idea. we wanted to keep those for this instead to use those for something that could easily and intelligently be inside another flag.
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 04:07:14 AM »
Markets is an interesting, complicated component in Banished. Personally I usually build a lot of markets. I prefer smaller markets, that hold all consumers goods only, close to homes. For health reasons I never use specialized markets for food but often other specialized markets for production.

I seldom use big markets. It looks like many people think, if a house is located inside a market circle, Bannis  who live there will get their supply from it. But that's not true. The radius has no influence on, where people will go to get what they need. As far as I can see, it's only one more happiness radius. People will go to the nearest place, market or barn: If they live inside a large market radius but outside the circle of a small closer market, they will never use the large market and if a barn is closer, they will go there. (Unless the market is only a few tiles further away.)

I'm sure that there is no perfect way, to manage the distribution of goods in Banished. But that's also one more thing, that makes the game interesting. Again, there's no right way to go. Can anyone say, what is better;  a very efficient woodcutter and a vendor at a specialized market, who carries the logs to him or two much less efficient woodcutter on different places, who must walk all over the map, to get their logs themselves?

Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 04:54:58 AM »
Can anyone say, what is better;  a very efficient woodcutter and a vendor at a specialized market, who carries the logs to him or two much less efficient woodcutter on different places, who must walk all over the map, to get their logs themselves?
If I can keep up with firewood production with only a single sawmill, I prefer that.  At least, I do until the point in the game where I have two or more separate population centers.  At that point having a less efficient supply of firewood, but that is closer to where people live?  I think that's better.  I think.

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 08:23:23 AM »
I was one of those who asked for specialized markets in the early days of modding and @slink responded with four, I think it was, that split all market products among them. The main reason at the time was I was getting bored with making all my village centers the same. With the huge selection now available that is certainly no longer a problem!  :)  I have generally settled down to a few that each serves a particular purpose. For my first market of a new settlement I use either the small market that comes with CC or @Elfecutioner's general store with graphics by @RedKetchup, either of which is easy to build and supplies the needs of my early pioneers. Later in the game I often use the small market for a mining/smelting village which I tend to build a bit away from other villages and towns (I think of my settlements as a collection of villages and towns in a river valley). For many towns I use the CC Rural Market, which is most like vanilla market. It does the job and can be landscaped with a neighboring park or some such. For my "main" towns I use the CC Central Market because it looks more like a main town--in other words, my choice is based on aesthetics, not functionality. For farm areas I use the Old Town market because it has a small footprint and large catchment which allow more farms in the circle. The houses of the farms are usually nearer the market with the fields occupying the edges of the circle, so the inefficiency of the larger circle doesn't bother me. I will often use @RedKetchup's 3-story Medieval Houses in my main towns, so if I might build some of the Medieval vendors, though not for their functions but because I like the look of the lower floors. Again, it is more aesthetics than function. Lately I have building the Mission and I might put a cart vendor  or two in the middle of the square formed by the church and houses (California mission style--must honor my homeland). Again that is more about aesthetics than function.  Conclusion: For me which market to use is about both function and aesthetics. A market should suit its surroundings and add to the overall plan of the whole map.

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 08:29:09 AM »
Can anyone say, what is better;  a very efficient woodcutter and a vendor at a specialized market, who carries the logs to him or two much less efficient woodcutter on different places, who must walk all over the map, to get their logs themselves?
If I can keep up with firewood production with only a single sawmill, I prefer that.  At least, I do until the point in the game where I have two or more separate population centers.  At that point having a less efficient supply of firewood, but that is closer to where people live?  I think that's better.  I think.

Interesting. I build my basic woodcutters right next to the foresters--source of logs right next door! Then I build one near the agricultural trading post because that is where I sell firewood for seeds and animals. Then I build a combination of woodcutters and charcoal producers (stacksburners in CC?) near the larger centers of population. Since I play on large and extra large maps I am generally clear cutting somewhere, so the dispersed fuel producers generally have a good supply. I also notice that pretty much all of my markets carry logs. I keep thinking I should try a sawmill or two and then promptly forget to build them.

Offline brads3

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 09:35:58 AM »
RKELLY,thank you for asking for those SLINK markets. those have been handy over the years and i still use some.way back, that was the only way to store stone other than a pile.  i wish we had SLINK or the coding. i do wish the texture could be upgraded but leave the functioning or storage code as it is. then add another marklet that would store just 1.07 flags.

        1 worry to firewood is the market will pull it all when the firewood is low.the outer areas will be short while anything near the market is well stocked.a wood chopper out in those far off areas will cut and supply houses nearby.this helps balance where the firewood is.even though the amount of firewood is low,the houses will show stocked.less chance of anyone freezing.whereas if all the firewood was taken by the market,those outer areas would start to get cold.

      SMURPHYS brought up a good point a few months ago.the more variety of items the market stores the less it stores food.the vendor is busy tryihng to locate the odd items and running around instead of stocking what is available. some markets seem to stock items in different orders.so 1 market might be trying to stock ale or logs before food.another might be stocking textiles before food. smaller markets and specialized help avoid that issue.

Offline embx61

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Re: Let's talk about markets
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2018, 10:37:11 AM »
The coding is easy. Just a question of setting the right flags and that's all.
This are the flags according to slink.

Meat Market which stocks proteins
Fruit Market
Vegetable Market
Grain Market
General Store which stocks firewood, clothing, tools, and herbs
Industrial Market which stocks wool, leather, iron, logs, stone, and coal <---- Wool and leather are the textiles flag.

Version 2 - Adds three markets including:Farm Market which stocks all edible items except proteins ---> protein was later added.
Smithy Market which stocks logs, iron, and coal  --> Maybe need to have the custom3 (Ind Fuel) as well. <-- I have a market like this in the Market set called Blacksmith market and have the tool flag added.
Tailoring Market which stock wool and leather -----> Maybe need Custom2 (Processed textiles) as well.

Those are made before the added 10 new flags.
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