Values in Citizen.rsc?

[kid1293]

If you don't call any other subsection than the one you changed, the compilation will get default or
other changes made to the other subsections. Has always been.

I can change what spawns from a tree and Necora can change the tree itself.
A third could make them temperature dependent. It all compiles if we only address
the specific subsection.

Breaking down subsections is beyond our knowledge right now.
It goes way beyond and it is one of the biggest wishes we have.
Make game recognize ALL added start/climate/landscape options.
All added tree spawns (you pick and choose at load time what you want)

Keep working @tangent . Luke absolutely made a lot of workarounds and maybe
you can find useful things hidden in the code.

[embx61]

If a modder makes a change in a resource file and define that change as rawMaterialXXXX.rsc for example then indeed it would be overwritten or overwrites another mod which does the same.

That is why we use the separate segments only and call them as such. It is a better way but it is sadly not full proof.

Here the part of the citizen.rsc file many mods use when Luke gave us more flags/limits.

Code: [Select]

StorageDescription storage
{
RawMaterialFlags _storageFlags = Edible | Fuel | Tool | Wood | Stone | Iron | Health | Clothing | Textile | Alcohol | Grain | Fruit | Vegetable | Protein | CoalFuel | Custom0 | Custom1 | Custom2 | Custom3 | Custom4 | Custom5 | Custom6 | Custom7 | Custom8 | Custom9;
bool _areaBasedLimit = false;
bool _available = true;
int _volumeLimit = 100;
}
Note that is all there is in that file while the Vanilla Citizen.rsc file contains way more.

Then we call this Citizen as "Template/Citizen.rsc:storage", in the XXXXXResources.rsc file.

So after the : is the only part what will be compiled so another mod which change something in the same file but another segment of it will call it
Template/Citizen.rsc: character for example.

So both files can run together as both have changes in different part of the Citizen.rsc file and called them correctly.

But it become a problem if two mods change the same segment as then the mod higher then the other mod in the list will overwrite the lower one.
If you read more on the forum you will read a lot about spawning stuff from different mods.

As some mods have to edit the same file  and the same segment which spawn stuff on the map is defined so the load order become important.

[tangent]

Okay, this is making a lot more sense. Thanks for the help, folks!

I gotta entertain some in-laws, but I'll be back in the code soon enough.

[brads3]

TOM:"

If you make a mod for changed citizen needs, you always also define (overwrite) aging values. It can't be split in different mods. The rule is that everything coded in one section of a rsc file will be compiled into one crs file and the game loads file by file from top to bottom of the mod list. So you have to make a decision how your half eating people are aging and so on. Values of other citizen mods are published here and there if you like to use them."

i argue with that. not with TOM's thinking but with the idea that we can't make the game do it. i just woke up so remind me i will come explain later. i think we can fix it or trick the game into loading more than 1 mod into those files.

[tangent]

we could just define a bunch of  variables for values in the main rcs, then add extra mods that assign values to those variables.

[brads3]

you all sound like you are on the right track. half of the coding is like greek or a foreign language to me. i try to be simple. my understanding is the game loads the 1st mod and  adds its code. what that mod doesn't add,it reverts back to vanilla code.so take KID's propertime mod,the game loads the age codes.the parts KID didn't change,the game automatically loads from vanilla.this process blocks any mod after from having any effect.to me this is wrong.
       we should be able to create a call-back loop so the door stays open. as the game loads the mods,plural,it adds codes from all.if there is something not coded ,then the game reverts back to vanilla AFTER all mods are loaded. in the example of KID's propertime mod if a mod after that changes the looks of the bannies it would still load since KID's properime mod didn't do anything to that part of the coding.

   i am not a modder or programmer.know enough to get mysef in trouble. can a mod be made to leave these doors open and set  a call-back loop? this saves rewriting mods and also having to add many code lines to mods. many small mods i do not see a problem of having. not if those mods do something. manyplayers add several mods and don't realize some of those won't do nothing since they are blocked by the top most mod.

       to me the way the game is now is goofy. we can add crops,livestock, and many other things. so we should be able to add to the trees,plants.map start settings,etc. this new idea could open many doors and give players tons of options. definetly worthh loooking into more.

      @tangent  were you being sarcastic about liking coding? understanding and being able to read it would be very very helpful.you could be a big addition to the modding team.someday i would like to learn how the bannies "think" more.there are easter eggs to be found. 

[tangent]

Haha I wasnt being sarcastic THIS time.

So, the thing were all lamenting is that we can see the source code. Without the ability to define classes or functions, we're very limited in what we can do. Specifically, with your example, we cant do a call back because we dont know the loading function that initially gets called.

Banished, right now, is effectively like a scanner. We take a piece of paper, draw on it what we want and scan it in to be displayed on the computer. Theres all sorts of visual illusions we can draw to make the image on the screen nicer, but we cant open the screener and turn it into a 3d printer or anything.

That was a dumb example...but maybe it worked haha

[theonlywanderer]

My brain can't handle this level of programming chat, but I can offer one suggestion...    Get Luke to release everything.    I know a lot of people are fine with what Luke did with Banished, but I have a different outlook.   I think it's wrong the way he ditched Banished and he needs to suck it up and finish the game properly.    Charging for a game and then leaving it broken is just wrong.   Either finish it or man up and release the code to somebody who is willing to clean up the mess and continue the game.   This is one of my main issues with early release style games that really tick me off.   These guys get money for broken stuff and then just dump it after awhile and expect everyone to just agree with their reasoning... "Oh, I decided to move on to something else bigger and better....", well, that's not a good enough reason.

There was another game called "Sol 0" that had developed a strong following and the guy dumped it and left behind an incomplete and broken game.   It's ridiculous.   If they no longer want it, release the code and be done with it and let others take over.

[embx61]

The game is not broken.
It works right out of the box.

Luke released the game about 4 years ago as a finished product beside major bug fixes.
He said he would add some modding support later and he did.

So nothing he said was wrong. Buyers knew what they were buying.
He only let the Linux/Max users down by not releasing versions of Banished for those OS'es  while he said he would.

Could he have done more, yes he could have, but Luke moved on to a new game.

I not see Luke releasing the source code. About 65% he is going to use for his new project so releasing the code would not be wise from a business point of view.

I think he should fix the Debug though so the new flags can be added through debug or tell us how we can fix it ourselves if that is possible.

I can understand that some are disappointed Luke not working on Banished/Mod Kit anymore but he is not in the wrong.

[RedKetchup]

the game is not broken, it is finished and 100% operational.

it is not because you wish to do this that way or do that this way .... that the game is broken and a mess.

[Abandoned]

Wow, Banished was playable and enjoyable even before all the great mods were added.  That is why so many of us are still playing and enjoying it.  I think Luke did a wonderful job all on his own making this wonderful game.  It is not broken or a mess.  Don't mess with it. 

[theonlywanderer]

There is no doubt at all the modders have saved this game!  If it wasn't for the mods it couldn't be considered a complete game in my mind.   Vanilla is so limited, there is simply nothing there.    You modders have all but eliminated anything he had accomplished other then the rudimentary aspect of the game.   I'd have to look again, but I'm pretty sure there isn't much refinement or production in vanilla, very limited in everything it provides.

The modders deserve and have earned the rights to the code, you've developed this game 100x more then he has.

Seriously, you people are amazing, the stuff you are doing for this game is awesome!    I wouldn't be playing it without your stuff.   I realize the game wouldn't exist without Luke, of course, but without the mods, it might as well not exist for me.

[RedKetchup]

Thanks you for your kind words @theonlywanderer
it is very appreciated

[Paeng]

These guys get money for broken stuff and then just dump it after awhile

Sorry, but I can't let this stand this way 

I been following the dev blog way before this game was released, and I cannot say that Luke broke any promises. He released Banished as a small (100Mb) game that was supposed to stand by itself. Modding was never on his plate (in his own words, he thought he would add a few small mods of his own design - which he did), but I don't think he expected a community that goes all out to mod his game on their own.

So in all fairness - he released a finished and very playable game with surprisingly little errors or bugs (which he fixed in a few successive updates), and then he took a well-earned timeout, and now he returned with plans for a new game, continuing to share his thoughts with 'his' community.

Reading his newer blogs it becomes clear that Banished development was a learning process for him as well. He is now seeing many things he could have done in a better way - good for us! Hopefully next time around he'll consider modding right off the start 

Anyway, he delivered what was promised - even more, as he tried to rectify a few of the most glaring obstacles to modding. Sure, the game is not perfect from our point of view, it is hard to mod because of many hard-coded items - but again, modding was not on the original plate, so by now we all understand that certain changes are not easy -- maybe impossible -- to implement, specially not in code that he wrote like four years ago.

Not to forget that he is a 1-man-show, so it's understandable that he is now concentrating on his next game instead of endlessly and probably hopelessly wallowing in old sourcecode that he himself by now finds imperfect.


So I do maintain that he delivered an outstanding piece of software (1-man-show!) and managed to bring out the best in our modding community, who managed to add gigabytes of content to a game that was not even considered to be modded. That alone I consider quite a feat and proof that his code was not all bad at all.

As for asking to make his sourcecode free-4-all - well, imho that is expecting too much, as he plans to further develop and refine this code for his next game. Maybe he'll get to a point where he feels he cannot re-use that code... well, then he can still open source it 

[theonlywanderer]

It is indeed broken when it comes to many aspects, there is no doubt here.   The bannies don't follow roads properly for starters, I'd say that's a major issue that remains broken.   The logic behind how bannies manage things is still broken.   Bannies do random goofy things and everyone knows this.   The fact bannies still freeze and die of starvation standing 10 squares from a barn full of food and firewood should be considered a broken issue.   The fact bannies will be assigned a house or job that is on the complete other side of the map should be considered a broken issue.     I can set a building for demolition and watch two bannies standing right there do absolutely nothing and see two bannies come from further away to demo the building.  Same with construction or any other task.   These are all broken issues.

Don't get me wrong... I am a huge fan of the game, obviously, despite the issues.   I just don't ignore the fact there are many issues that should have been resolved and I consider the game broken because of it.

Housing has always been the most obvious!   You put a house next to a farm and the forester lives there.   Okay... that makes little sense!    Put a house next to the blacksmith and the baker lives there.... mmmkay!    Eventually they sort of adjust, but not like it should.       Some would say you need more houses closer to forester then, and that's maybe true, but at the same time..  shouldn't the person in any house represent the closest job to it's location first?

I'm sure that I'm not thinking of everything here, but this should be clear the game is broken.