Author Topic: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)  (Read 778 times)

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Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2018, 02:32:50 PM »
Why would anyone have to ditch their personal mods?     This is what I don't understand.

Can't a unified series exist alongside their separate goals?   I realize there is only so much a modder can do, as someone clearly stated, they aren't robots.   But there isn't any reason several directions can't coexist.

Since the models are separate from the programming, It seems obvious they can have variations in programming.

One variation can stick to vanilla level items to build and will function within any game.  This seems to be the easier route, programming wise, since only existing code needs to be used and only have to change some in code filenames, right?  Compile this and send it off as a vanilla level mod.

The other variation can be part of a unified version, which just takes the already existent model and revamps the programming to be part of a more unified experience that includes more complex product chains.   Once the unified programming code is setup, it should once again be a matter of changing some filenames in the code.    Compile this and send it off as the unified mod.

And no.. I'm not even trying to make light of what is involved in modeling and programming.  Just trying to communicate without writing a book for a comment.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 02:37:43 PM by theonlywanderer »

Offline Abandoned

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2018, 02:33:34 PM »
oh my gosh, how silly of me.  :D  Lets make all those simple houses more complex so some people won't want to use them.  Better yet, lets force everyone to cheat using debug.  What nonsense.  ;D

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2018, 02:39:47 PM »
Sorry abandoned, but once you add even a single mod that changes anything but appearance... you are already cheating.   Am I really to believe you have never used a single mod that changes anything else?    Sorry, but I don't believe it.   Am I now going to hear how there are different levels of cheating that are somehow are more acceptable and more honorable?  As long as you don't do this or that..... 

Am I also to believe that most people, who go looking for mods, only want to change the appearance and keep the vanilla game intact because it's so unbelievably exciting and challenging?   It's so great, that they had to go looking for mods.....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, that was easy to find....   
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Mods enabled and load order:

Starting and Map Changing Mods: Call of Nature Soundtrack, Banished UI Maps, Banished UI Town Names, Labor Window, RK Minimized Status, RK Vanilla TP, CC Light Rain, Climate-No Snow,  New Maps, Palm Tree Start

Tweak Mods:  Better Fields, Bigger Wheelbarrows, Busy Laborers, Fishing Dock 25%, Hunting & Gathering, Hunting Season, Increased CC, Longer Living Orchards, 1:1 Alternative,  Rock Respawn, Tiny Smoke, Woodcutter +3

Major or Must Have Mods: An Empty Square, Nomad Sign Complete, DS Jetty & Bridges v1, Kid More Houses Vanilla, Kid Old Town, Kid Old Town Ports & Pirates, Kid Tiny, Kid Wood Fort, NMT 3.1Series Canal Set

Supporting Mods:   Coal Furnace, Kid Granny's Park, Kid House Boat, Kid In Transit, Kid Storage Carts, Kid Yard Cover, Old Hunter Hut, RK Carts, RK Pigs as Livestock, Sample White Chicken, Smuggler Cave, Storage Crates
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 03:16:22 PM by theonlywanderer »

Online elemental

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2018, 03:18:35 PM »
And i like to play very big maps, and make different "areas" City, little towns with forest between, country side. And when the bannies go work to other side on the map, the start to die on starving in the way. So i like to use debug, because i cant make my "utopia" without it. For me this game is more relax and city building. I would like to try make my "utopia" without debug, but its not possible.

This is a great example of different mods suiting different play styles. You could also argue that in this case using debug is adding MORE realism to the game. in real life the average person can walk a few kilometres (and back again) without starving to death.

Mods should make the game more fun. The problem is each of us has a different idea of exactly what 'more fun' means.


Online elemental

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2018, 03:33:59 PM »
The division I see happening is between people wanting mods to have more building requirements and those who don't. 

It's not just building materials, it's more vs less of everything: building materials, food items, 'useless' products that can only be used for trade. The only things that nobody seems to complain about are free-build deco items.

Quote
Some people don't like the complexity, I get it.  But why?

As best as I can tell they don't like things being added to their town hall and trader menus. I do agree that it would be nice if we could delete unwanted items from those menus. Say you imported something one time for a special purpose and you are never going to import it or use it again. It would be nice if we could remove that item from menus but unfortunately we can't.

Some of them also want to play on small maps where you just don't have room for a glassworks and whatnot. OK, not everyone has a super fast computer (I certainly don't). But to me, needing or wanting to only play small maps isn't a valid reason for insisting that no extra complexity should be added to the game. Same goes for the players who want to build massive cities and aim for as high as population as possible. For them, things like glassworks are a waste of space. We all use the mods we like and skip the ones we don't. Nothing is going to please everyone and every play style.

And lastly there is the purity argument, which is a new one. Mods should be simple because vanilla is/was simple. It's a matter of opinion so there is no point in arguing over it. If someone only wants to make reskins of vanilla buildings then that's fine. It's still new content for which I am very grateful and if I like it I'll add it to my game.  :)

These less vs more discussions keep popping up. The modders can read them and decide for themselves how they want to make their mods. Red, DS, and EB have been gradually adding things like lumber, glass, and bricks to buildings. I'm fine with that. Kid is very firmly in the logs and stone camp. I'm fine with that too. If he makes something I like I'll add it to my game.




Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2018, 04:02:21 PM »
... there isn't any reason several directions can't coexist.

Now we are on the same track. That's the only thing I expect, coexistence of several directions. But the religious war continues, I'm out at this point. ;)

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2018, 04:48:23 PM »
Well, everyone can call me an ass, but I don't see a need for all styles of play to be catered too.   That type of thing really snuffs out creativity, improvement, and expansion.   It pigeon holes everything to the lowest denominator.

The lowest denominator is the vanilla version of the game.  Why are people in mod forums?  There are less forums now, but why were there so many forums dedicated to modding this game if everyone was thrilled with vanilla?   Because vanilla sucks and everyone knows it does.   Once you figure it out, it's a snooze fest.   People can claim otherwise, but when they continue to use mods, well... there ya go!  So, again I ask.. why would anyone be in here if Vanilla was so awesome?  Go uninstall all the mods you use and play Vanilla.  Nobody will stop you, promise!

So... that leaves one type of person....  those who enjoy mods!   Why do they enjoy mods?  Just so they can play the vanilla game with different appearance?  I seriously doubt it.   The mechanics of Vanilla banished are every bit just as responsible for what makes it boring, the same thing over and over and over.

So... what does that leave?  People who want some type of improvement with the mods.  But what type of improvement?   Different appearance isn't enough, the game mechanics will still suck if using Vanilla game mechanics, what would be the point?   The point would come down to just wanting to build a neat city.  Great, so use debug and build away!    Build whatever you want.

But having debug is not enough, why?   The vanilla game is not a challenge, it's boring, that's why people are here looking for more, looking for something better.     What is better... what is improvement... we're still asking this question for some reason.

The reason these questions won't go away is because there is too much catering to the vanilla game.  Again, go play vanilla if that's what you want.   But the reason you go looking for mods is for something better.   Better doesn't exist if you change nothing.   How is the game better by having more houses if the same boring base vanilla game mechanics is being used?    Oh boy... I can place a new house the same way I could the vanilla house... how exciting.  I find this hard to believe that is what majority users are looking for out of mods.

I get all the story telling also, I do... it's different and can be interesting if that's what you like.  But let's face it, that is way out there for asking modders to focus on this style of game play.  Especially when debug is available and can just build to your hearts content and tell whatever grand story you want.

No... majority of mod seekers are looking for something better... something to improve the game and make it last longer, make it re-playable and bring back the challenge or even increase the challenge.   Those who enjoy making things easier already have the solution... DEBUG!!    Don't like cheating... KNOCK KNOCK... they are already cheating as soon as they mod the game.  Appearance mods typically get a pass on that.   But in the case of banished, appearance mods aren't enough to make a difference.   The vanilla game is simply too limited.   Yep, I'm an ass for saying the obvious.

Bottom line... not all styles should be catered too.  A lot of styles can simply be done by using Debug and be done with it.  No need to fool themselves in to thinking they are playing a legit round of banished after installing 50 different mods, but woah... DEBUG... that's just going too far!!

Anyway...  don't mind me... I am seriously considering letting this forum get back to their agenda's and not letting the door hit me in the ass when I leave.   I will think about it.    Not interested in disrupting the flow around here.  It's clearly all been said before.

Offline Gatherer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2018, 05:37:37 PM »
Well, everyone can call me an ass

No one is calling you an ass.

I don't see a need for all styles of play to be catered too. That type of thing really snuffs out creativity, improvement, and expansion. It pigeon holes everything to the lowest denominator.

Touche!
:) 

The lowest denominator is the vanilla version of the game.  Why are people in mod forums?  There are less forums now, but why were there so many forums dedicated to modding this game if everyone was thrilled with vanilla?   Because vanilla sucks and everyone knows it does.   Once you figure it out, it's a snooze fest.   People can claim otherwise, but when they continue to use mods, well... there ya go!  So, again I ask.. why would anyone be in here if Vanilla was so awesome?  Go uninstall all the mods you use and play Vanilla.  Nobody will stop you, promise!

TThat's the same as me telling you to go learn to mod and create upgradeable buildings with advanced materials. Nobody will stop you, promise! We need more modders.

So... that leaves one type of person....  those who enjoy mods!   Why do they enjoy mods?  Just so they can play the vanilla game with different appearance?  I seriously doubt it.   The mechanics of Vanilla banished are every bit just as responsible for what makes it boring, the same thing over and over and over.

There are some of us who like to play that way. Trying to build a working settlement, town, big city using different looking houses without the hassle of overly advanced materials. I'm not against using debug and I don't see it as cheating. I just don't use it personally.

So... what does that leave?  People who want some type of improvement with the mods.  But what type of improvement?   Different appearance isn't enough, the game mechanics will still suck if using Vanilla game mechanics, what would be the point?   The point would come down to just wanting to build a neat city.  Great, so use debug and build away!    Build whatever you want.

But having debug is not enough, why?   The vanilla game is not a challenge, it's boring, that's why people are here looking for more, looking for something better.     What is better... what is improvement... we're still asking this question for some reason.

What happens after the fifth or sixth upgrade of a house with those advanced materials? Will Kid, RK, EB and other modders be pestered for a seventh and eight upgrade then?

Bottom line... not all styles should be catered too.

Meaning our styles of simple leisured play should not be catered. :(

Anyway...  don't mind me... I am seriously considering letting this forum get back to their agenda's and not letting the door hit me in the ass when I leave.   I will think about it.    Not interested in disrupting the flow around here.  It's clearly all been said before.

There is no need to be dramatic. We like different ideas on this forum. We just don't think they should all be catered to. See what I did there? ;)
Fiat panis

Online elemental

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2018, 05:39:14 PM »
All ideas and opinions should be welcome. Modders like ideas and feedback, and it is them that keeps this game alive and interesting. Please help by continuing to share.

We all have to agree to disagree on some things. Lots of different play styles, no one correct way to play the game. But I do agree that vanilla is simply boring.   ;)

Offline Gatherer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2018, 05:42:45 PM »
But I do agree that vanilla is simply boring.   ;)


It is. I consider it a starter kit that gives new players thirst for the modded stuff.
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Online elemental

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2018, 05:50:41 PM »
Bottom line... not all styles should be catered too.

Meaning our styles of simple leisured play should not be catered. :(


I think a better way of putting it is that not every mod should try and cater to every player every time. It just isn't possible. Nor should every player expect every mod to be just right for them. Discrepancy leans towards more complexity and realism in some of his mods, especially his more recent mods. But that doesn't mean he can't do a set of simple houses too.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2018, 06:08:53 PM »
~~"That's the same as me telling you to go learn to mod"~~

No, it isn't even remotely the same in any way shape or form!   Not everyone is capable, or has the time to take up modding.

However, even if somebody creates the most complex mod the game allows, a player can still NOT INSTALL IT and can still remain playing the vanilla game.  Other players CAN install it, and either make the required materials or use the debug menu.  Basically, anyone can go backwards, but you can't go forward if no forward exists.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2018, 06:12:27 PM »
~~"What happens after the fifth or sixth upgrade of a house with those advanced materials"~~

I don't know what the game is capable of, but isn't that the point of mods, to find out?   Will they be pestered for more and more?   Aren't they already being pestered?   Why does the reason for being pestered matter?   What difference does it make if somebody is asking for a new watermill versus asking for a seventh house level, if it's even possible.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2018, 06:22:24 PM »
~~"Meaning our styles of simple leisured play should not be catered"~~

It already has been catered too... it's called DEBUG!   Your personal choice to not use it should not be a factor to stop the progression of mods for the game.
 
Even the vanilla game isn't a "leisure" type of game play unless you have the speed way down which makes it agonizing at best, hence the ability to speed up to 10x.   10x wouldn't exist for any other reason then the obvious!  Many of the mods out there that add lumber mills, water mills, more products, actually enhance leisure play, unless leisure play has be redefined and I didn't get the memo?   Wouldn't leisure play mean just kind of goofing around enjoying the building and not worrying about everything being managed perfectly?     That fits quite well with having more buildings and more options to fill out a town.   How is that a bad thing for leisure play?

Offline brads3

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Re: How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2018, 06:22:43 PM »
house materials needed: lumber,2 types,8 sizes each,plywood 2 thicknesses,osb board,windows varrying sizes,doors,insulation 2 types,wiring 3 types,pipes, toilet,sinks,tubs,shower,cupboards,bolts,screws,nails 10 sizes,bricks,concrete blocks,chimney liner,slate,ceramic tiles,..........
wait too many for the limits.
 <<<<calls LUKE got hung up on and laughed at,called me names


bannies"watch this" grabs a stone tool and builds the house.uses same tool to dig outhouse and a grave. then grabs musket and loads cannons.  "tell us we can't do it, i dare ya." we'll call RED invent steam engines and then CC to get ropes."do you prefer to be shot,shot out of a canon.or tied to the tracks and wait for the train?"

tune in next week as archeologists discover monkeys built the pyramids."humans couldn't get along long enough to accomplish such a feat."

PS there is a harder, more accurate game. it is called life, note everyone fails at it. they die trying to win.  ::)