Author Topic: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05  (Read 4256 times)

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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2019, 08:58:22 PM »
/HUG Nilla
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Offline 1

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2019, 12:52:12 AM »
@Nilla
I wish all good for you and your family.

Offline brads3

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2019, 03:36:45 AM »
i hope your family gets feeling better soon.

Offline Artfactial

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2019, 05:31:51 AM »
I currently don't have the energy to help testing this but just wanted to say a big thank you to you DS and Nilla for pushing through with this, it looks brilliant.<3

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2019, 11:41:23 PM »
Thank you all for your thoughts on me and my family.  :)

I started a new game yesterday with a "hard" start. It was no good idea if you want to calm down with a nice little Banished game; thereīs no school that doesnīt need iron, thatīs even more difficult than in the North to produce and one of the evil diseases, I think it was smallpox in summer of year one. Opposite to vanilla youīve managed to make the "hard" start hard. :) But this time I quit it and started a new medium game.

Two things I want to tell; I canīt get the Workerīs construction Yard to work proper. In 1― year it produced 20 lumber. I think I have all required raw materials but the worker mostly walks with 9 logs or 6 stones or 20 charcoal or 10 clay back and forth between the nearest stockpile and his site. Obviously, he can produce sometimes but it looks like heīs only looking for raw materials on the nearest stockpile and never goes a little bit further.

The reduced amount of stone on the map really hurts. Everything needs stone, a lot of it. Iīm only in year 7 and all close stone resources are gone. I strongly dislike the vanilla quarry and donīt want to build it and your quarry @Discrepancy is too expensive and hard to locate for the beginning.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2019, 11:49:22 PM »
I was also struggling in my longer tests to get the stone as quarry was too expensive.
I'm going to make it easier to place (will make terra-forming around the placement uglier though) and cheaper to construct.

I haven't had a Workerīs Worker's Construction Yard produce that slowly, I will take a look.

Thanks.

Offline brads3

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2019, 04:31:37 AM »
that is a super explanation to the worker's personality. i would have thought he would not work at all until he had materials, then worked til he ran completely out.  if he needed more materials that weren't available,you would think the worker would go idle or walk farther away to find them.

       one of the intricate parts to the game coding that we eiother don't have access to or don't fully understand yet. whatever the cause, i wonder if it is the same reason different venedors have market vendors have different personalities?

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2019, 07:24:14 AM »
@Discrepancy I guess, your construction yard uses the same mechanic as my new smokehouse did, with auto-switching between recipes via initialProduct -1. So you probably run into same issues with that. It works fine in a simple mine but with different recipes and input materials, the worker stops and goes idling if the materials for one recipe are not available. It also starts to do strange things at some point like negative amounts of inventories and such. I went back to manual switching but would be cool if we could make it work properly.

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2019, 11:25:54 PM »
I can confirm that the Workerīs Construction Yard doesnīt work well this time either. I watched a worker for some time and made some notes. First, she took 6 stones- stones back to SP- took 2 logs- a little work, nothing produced- logs back- 6 stones- stones back- home to eat- 2 logs- logs back- 2 logs- logs back- 9 logs- idle- little work, nothing produced- logs back- 12 sand- sand back- 9 logs- logs back- 9 logs- logs back- 20 charcoal- 2 iron-4 iron fittings produced! I left her for some time, she walked diligently between workplace and stockpile choosing and rejecting different materials but nothing more was produced.

In the industrial mining mod, there's no barn that can hold textiles. Intentional or a bug? I noticed this when I wanted to replace the original vanilla barn but it couldnīt be emptied, a few wool and leather was left. The store from the Bryggen houses can hold textiles, so the vanilla barn is now gone.

I built a small mine. I let one miner work one year and he produced about 130 iron ore. Thatīs a lot but itīs still very unprofitable; 5 ore needs 2 lumber. Isnīt that a little too much? A miner only makes an annual profit of about 50. So itīs still better to buy iron ore and let the miner do something else. But on the other hand; you can produce enough iron this way to develop the town if you donīt want to trade or the merchants donīt bring enough. I hope the bigger mines are more profitable.

The trade value of iron fittings is still 2.

Sorry, a lot of complains but itīs not the whole truth, Youīve done an excellent job. I like the new menus with the information, I like the design of the buildings, I like the increased difficulty in producing many things, I like the expensive building costs and long building times of sites and houses. I still have much to look forward to!

Edit: I forgot to tell; I also had an "outbreak of broken bones". I guess it canīt be changed but it looked funny!

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2019, 12:56:58 AM »
I was doing some adjustments to the Worker's Construction Yard last night, I was also running into similar problems, but not as bad as you described. I was producing 20-30 Timber a year, Iron-Fittings about the same, had glass once, but never produced a Brick or any Lime  :(

It must be as @Tom Sawyer says with the inputs playing havoc with the workers, as it works fine on buildings that don't have an input (my beehives, original tunnel mine, etc).


It is indeed another bug... I noticed that also when I was updating DS TownHouses last night and noticed it was missing from the UI string text. This will be rectified next update. I'm thinking it be included in both barns, thoughts?

The bigger mines only require 1 Timber, but... you will need Lamp Oil also.

How do we rectify this? mining was (and is) historically an expensive operation (in labor and consumed products). I agree it should be profitable to mine the ore, and very profitable with the end smelted result.
Though I don't really want players to build an economy based upon importing ore and then smelting and selling the metals, it could still be an option, but a very low profit one, but as the game stands, it is still too easy to build up a bigger farming community first, export surplus food and I have more than enough to trade for ores or easier, the metals themselves.
On paper I'm trying to adjust everything to try and alter the standard game economy into something that will work... has not been easy. The economy needs to be weighted towards the mining and production industry which has a higher cost.

Iron Fittings should have been changed. Not sure what happened there. Thanks.

Haha, well I never had got that myself in all my testing. I will try alter a couple of the variables differently and see if it stops the transmission.

:)

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2019, 07:08:14 AM »
Quote
It must be as @Tom Sawyer says with the inputs playing havoc with the workers, as it works fine on buildings that don't have an input (my beehives, original tunnel mine, etc).
I think so too because the flax weaver works similarly. It still produces but the behaviour of the worker is very odd. The weaver takes 100 flax, produce a little something; say 4 linen from 20 flax and then carries the rest 80 flax back to the barn, gets new 100 flax, produces something, carries the rest back and so on. Opposit to the Workerīs Construction they do produce something each time but only once. If you locate barn and flax and weaver close to each other, the site produces OK but I suppose it would be better if only one thing was produced.

Mines. I built an "Improved mine" I think itīs called. It uses 2 lumber and 1 lamp oil to produce 5 coal or ore; the value of the input is higher than the output. I use it now to produce coal for coke. The Battery Coke Oven is very profitable, so if you look at it together; one miner and one worker producing coke with some input of lumber and lamp oil, itīs a decent production with a decent profit, even if the miner alone is a loss. I donīt like when the value of the input is higher than the output but if you set the input to 1 lumber and 1 lamp oil, I think these production numbers and values can work, at least as long as you canīt buy a large amount of ore and coal, and it doesnīt look like the merchant to the small specialized port bring very much. I will test the other ports too.

This is an industrial mod; to me, it means that it should be possible to let your population work in this industry, sell their endproducts and buy food and other basic needs for it. Every step in this chain mustnīt make a huge profit as long as the end product is valuable enough to support the settlement. But the risk is always if some steps in a production chain are unprofitable, people like me would try to out trick it and buy raw materials and intermediate products. One way to stop this is to give each step of the chain some kind of decent profit, another is to stop merchants from bringing a large amount of these raw and intermediate products. Maybe some combination?

Quote
I will try alter a couple of the variables differently and see if it stops the transmission.
Maybe you got me wrong; It was the text; an outbreak of" I found funny. The "disease" wasnīt spread to anyone else. (Even though it may be contagious, too; I fell from a ladder last summer and broke my foot, my neighbour fell from the same ladder two weeks later and broke his hip)

I have a few new little things.

I really like the look of the big quarry. This is the first Banished quarry that looks good! :) But it looks like you can choose between two different productions, both say the same; 1-2 Stone (Tools; stonemason).

The candlemaker has a wrong text in the menu; it says you need 7 beeswax but itīs only 3. But also this way candlemaking is slow and not very profitble.

The timber mill has a fantastic "animation" of the wheel. It looks really great! But the menu for firewood is wrong; saying you make 6-8 firewood from 2 logs.

I canīt build the "Thomson Trade Stone Road" on an existing dirt road like you can with a vanilla stone road.

PS: My husband is now at home, very weak, needing a lot of care. I will probably have much time to play Banished because I want to stay close to him. And my computer is next to the bedroom.

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2019, 11:36:56 AM »
I had a crash as I updated the small mine. I can vaguely remember that I had something like that before in a Nordic game. The crash comes when you click on the building site, that is supposed to be upgraded.

Edit: Good news! It took a long time but the mine was upgraded and it seems to work just fine. (only using 1 lumber and 1 lamp oil!;) ) You just have to avoid clicking at the building site after youīve started the upgrade.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 01:24:44 PM by Nilla »

Offline Artfactial

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2019, 01:10:54 PM »
The timber mill has a fantastic "animation" of the wheel. It looks really great! But the menu for firewood is wrong; saying you make 6-8 firewood from 2 logs.
What is this magic?:O We have animated buildings now in Banished?

Best wishes for a swift recovery of your husband!

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2019, 01:25:48 PM »
Itīs not really animated, it just looks like water is streaming around the wheel in a quite spectacular way.

Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.02
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2019, 12:52:27 AM »
I have no new bugs to report.:)

My town converts from a farming society to an iron industry town. I stopped to build new farms and orchards as I reached about 100 inhabitants and now Iīm slowly demolishing them. My goal is to have no farming and no animal herds. I will also try not to import any raw materials for the iron industry (maybe except for some logs, we will see if thereīs space enough to produce enough logs, but at least thatīs my ambition).

I want to tell a bit about an experiment I made, or not quite an experiment, I just took some notes and used a tiny bit of math. I wanted to see if it would be possible to import all (not profitable) raw materials for iron production. I have 2 small raw material Thomson Trade ports. I order iron ore and coal. My population is a little less than 300. Last year I could have bought 660 iron ore and 1100 coal. My export industry produced about 1100 hardened tools. For this, we need 550 iron and 1100 coke, for the iron we need 550 iron ore and 275 coke. To produce 1375 coke you need 325 coal. Now I also need iron for other things, so I actually produced 700 iron.

I donīt fully support my settlement by exporting tools yet; itīs still a little less than 50% but at least for a settlement of this size; it could be possible to import all raw materials you need with a few small trading ports. I donīt think this is what you really want with this mod @Discrepancy.

About the mines; you might have made them a little too productive. I have built new mines, upgraded and changes production, so Iīm not so sure how many Iīve used on average but I can say for sure, that I need far fewer miners than blacksmiths. (and I didnīt buy one piece of the offered iron ore and coal)

 

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