Author Topic: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05  (Read 6925 times)

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Offline Artfactial

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2019, 10:24:22 AM »
I echo that. This gem keeps on shining brighter, I hope to dive in when I return for more Banished.:)

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #91 on: September 02, 2019, 12:23:49 PM »
Just started a new game with DS Industry Mining Beta v.05 and all your other mods except for DS Blast Furnace and Christmas Tree.

I just wanted to let you know of a text mistake. On the Game Settings window your text description for the "Hard" start says that it includes some Firewood. It doesn't, and it shouldn't because they don't have any homes to begin with.

You never did answer my previous question up above so maybe you just missed it. I am still curious as to which of your mods you think we should be testing this with. I don't know if maybe there are some that you don't feel are meshing in very well anymore.
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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2019, 03:10:03 AM »
Hello @MarkAnthony , thanks, and sorry I did miss the last question you asked.

But first, the mistake is not a mistake, but is present in the vanilla game, Hard start does begin with a count of 100 firewood in the cart. I made no changes to the standard Easy, Medium or Hard games apart from the spawning of ores on map, and flax added to list of crops.

To be honest I don't really have a list of what mods you should be playing with DS Industry Mining (DSIM), because you can of course play it by it self. My own tests are purely with this mod only, as I want to get the production in a stable and hopefully balanced state. I will then incorporate the resource and production changes among all of my other mods. Though my other mods work, I have not made all these changes, so quite often many of my other buildings will be over or under powered because of this. Behind the scenes I am actually working on a CelticVillage update that will tie into the mining industry in DSIM but from a very early age.

But what meshes with this mod? hopefully everything will eventually, but for now my latest mods mostly. TownHouses and LogHomes are the best as they utilize the new resources.

:) good luck with your game, and I hope to hear some feedback regarding difficulty and balance. After a couple more planned updates of major additions, I hope to get a stable version released. After which I will bulk update many of my mods that I have waiting for the new production numbers. I've decided to go down this route, rather than constantly updating these mods to suit each DSIM version.


Thanks for all of your thorough and informative testing @Nilla , I hope the stresses do calm down for you. Your testing and production number reports have been instrumental in making this mod work.

Thanks @Artfactial and @taniu :)

@brads3 , I would be very interested if you do start a game with my mod :) I would be honored. You might like all the railway pieces, matches well with RK's Choo Choo (something I do plan on adding support and changes to).

Offline brads3

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2019, 06:35:35 AM »
well,i started on it. in the process of setting up files into the Windata folder something went wrong. i broke my game. it will take a few days to fix it.

     i did load the industrial mod with some others and was able to open it and see the info menus and icons. i noticed you had a lot of track pieces. i noticed the resources are different. lots of clay. i think the factory buildings fit with the colonial era.

     my pet peeve with the game is how LUKE set the start coding.we can add gathering plants and trees from several mods, but can't do that with animals,grass,or rocks.  the game limits what we can do.i was debating whcih way i wanted the start when i noticed the game was broken. soon as i try to play it, it crashes.it isnt your mod crashing. something went wrong transfering files.

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2019, 06:25:23 PM »
Hmmph!  Beta v.05 doesn't seem to like me much. That's two games in a row now where I get to about the same point in the game and suffer a mass die-off due to starvation. I play the game at 2x speed so time-wise this took a few hours each game. I forget what year last night's game died at somewhere between year 7 and year 9 maybe; today's game died at year 7.

Both games I started off with the Industry: Ore-Smelters (Hard) start so that means no crops, orchards, or pastures. Both games I started with eight adults so not a whole lot of workers to spread around. One becomes a Teacher, one a Gatherer (using a basket), one a Fisherman (using a pole), and two for hunting; one with a tool and one from a cabin. That's five right there: one educator and four foodies. One is a Builder to erect everything, one Laborer to fetch all the stuff, and one floater that switches between a crap-ton of jobs to get stuff processed: tools, building materials, firewood and so on.

I'll tell you one thing though, that single Fisherman sucks big time; I won't use him again. Two beta v.05 games in a row and he barely caught a thing, some months he would catch nothing. I had a year result of 22 a few times and he was in a prime spot, or what I think is an ideal spot... a piece of pointy land with 180 water access! ROFL sometimes the idiot fished backwards onto the land but actually caught something haha! Trick shot or not, I'm not bothering with him anymore. The hunter cabin is basically what kept everyone alive all those years and the Gatherer... meh... using a basket doesn't get much but it supplemented things.

Anyways, it's always about year 7-ish or thereabouts that I can finally get a DS Thompson Seed Trader built but well... I ain't got squat to sell! I steal a little here and there when I can to put a little into the trading post to barter with but it's never enough. Last night's game I actually had enough to almost buy two 2,500tv seeds; when he finally came he brought me two orchard seeds when I had my heart set on crop seeds. I turned him away thinking he'd be back the next year with crop seeds. I didn't see him again for 15 months - it was too late then. Today's game I had the Seed Trader built but almost next to nothing to sell. Even if he came, I wouldn't have had nearly enough to buy anything.

... and somewhere 'round this point die, die, die, die!  LOL *sighs   :(

Oh well, I'll try again.

EDIT For typos and to add: When my population is only in the 20-ish ballpark, I think a die off of 8-12 people is considered a "mass die-off" but that's just me. I just get frustrated at this point and start a new game.

 Today's game I also had an early child-bearing death so that didn't help. Last night's game I also had an early death due to starvation. It was that idiot Fisherman... yeah I had an idiot fisherman yesterday too!  :P Anyhow, that one was on me; The solo fisherman has three? F-key variants for height I guess. Apparently I picked the wrong one. I honestly don't see much difference in height, mostly I just see a slight rotation. So the option I picked last night had the thingy underwater and well, she fished underwater too! I guess she got stuck down there hence the starvation death.

Oh, this screenshot shows that fishing spot in the top left corner. He had a good spot I think but apparently he likes to fish without bait! Pfft... he probably only caught the 22 fish he did because he probably had a whole mess of fishing line all tangled up in the water.   ;)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 07:00:57 PM by MarkAnthony »
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Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2019, 01:13:33 AM »
I havent used these Small Town tool fisher/gatherer/hunters for some time so I cant say anything to the output from them in this combination. When Ive tested the DSInd, I've only produced vanilla fish and forest food. But I dont see any store close to that fisher, seems like he needs to walk a long way to put the few fishes he catches somewhere. I dont think its the only explanation for only 22 fish but it doesnt make things better.

The start in industrial mining is indeed hard when you have no crops. Do you like the struggle? I do!

I have started a new game, too. Even if I have decided to restart it, I will write a little about it later. The start is indeed interesting.


Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #96 on: September 04, 2019, 07:02:22 AM »
But I dont see any store close to that fisher, seems like he needs to walk a long way to put the few fishes he catches somewhere.
Crates and barrels about a 1/4-1/2 inch away in the screenshot, 1200-1600 storage roughly.
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Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #97 on: September 04, 2019, 06:06:38 PM »
I got a question for you @Nilla / @Discrepancy ,

Normally my games are trade-free, I like to try and make them self-supporting; the exception would be when I need to buy seeds and livestock. I never got to the point of advancing far enough in a DSIM game to ever build a Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Goods Buyer or the Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Purchase Office. Am I understanding this correctly?

  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Goods Buyer - they will buy anything you have to sell and only pay you in coins, they don't actually have anything you can buy from them?
  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Purchase Office - is a trader who will sell you a variety of things in exchange for coin payment only and they do not sell any Livestock?
  • If I am playing only DS Industry Mining + Vanilla then I need to use the Vanilla Trade Post to buy my Livestock from them?
Is this all correct? I know you're a trade-gamer Nilla and I'm pretty sure I also read you saying you've used the DSIM traders already that's why I am asking for your clarification please, and thank you.

Off-topic: In my game last night Discrepancy the one where my village died at year 7, I noticed something about the 25 Copper Bloomery Smelter. It says, "approximately 10 Copper" will be the output. Is it possible to get a measly 2? I mean, I know it is... that's what I got but was it supposed to be just a random number on how many you get and I just had bad RNG or what factors into it?

I'll let you know that even with 3 food types and a well and an herbalist my village happiness is a paltry 2.5 stars and their health is a flat out zero hearts for almost the entire game of 7 to 9 years! Heck, within the first few ticks of the clock, right after starting the game my health immediately drops to 3? I think it was and then not even a month after that they're down to 1 then a month after that... zilch!   ??? My reason for mentioning this is because that was their collective status at the time the bloomery was in operation, zero hearts and 2.5 stars.

Anyhow, about that 25 Copper Bloomery Smelter result of 2 - I do know the person had Steel Tools, so there's that!  :P   (What, no Copper for "brownie points"? hehe) But with a result of 2 Copper for 25 Copper Ore and 10 Charcoal and 13 Clay I felt I got ripped off getting only 2 Copper!   :(    Especially at the start of the game when you barely have anything but your sweaty brow and sore back and a few odds and ends here and there.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 06:12:54 PM by MarkAnthony »
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Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #98 on: September 04, 2019, 07:42:05 PM »
Sorry Discrepancy. I wrote about that Fisherman yesterday and today I realized it wasn't even part of DS Industry Mining, I forgot it was part of another mod of yours.

Today's game only has DS Industry Mining and nothing else that interferes with that mod, such as no extra markets, no extra traders, no extra storage, no extra town services (schools etc), and no extra food or resource production (wood/timber/metal producers and so forth). That means I am also having to do without DS Thompson Trade Merchants and DS Jetty & Bridges!

Well... as far as food production goes I only added support mods for food preservation if needed such as your Bryce's Butcher, your Roasted Nuts, Tom's Campfire and Smokehouse, and Kid's Market Food (BBQ, Soups etc). I say "if needed" because my last two games had food issues so I will build them and only use them if I see a run on the bank food reserves!

Besides the food preservatives I added (catch that pun?  ;D )  I did add your bridges and tunnels and roads mods, and the mead and ale house mods too; still never built one of those yet, or apiaries! I plan to in this game!

Don't mind @kid1293 's Tiny mod, he always passes out the test answers before class (Full Town Hall stats)! Gotta have that cheat-sheet, you understand right?  ::) :P

Here's my ModMan profile below of my current game.

 
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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2019, 01:14:52 AM »
That fishing spot is from DDSV: Production, and yes it might be too under-powered. Thanks.

  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Goods Buyer - they will buy anything you have to sell and only pay you in coins, they don't actually have anything you can buy from them?
  • The Thadd Surrel & Family Trade Merchant, Purchase Office - is a trader who will sell you a variety of things in exchange for coin payment only and they do not sell any Livestock?
  • If I am playing only DS Industry Mining + Vanilla then I need to use the Vanilla Trade Post to buy my Livestock from them?
Is this all correct?
Correct to all points. Next update will see an update to the Purchase Office to allow purchase of Livestock.

The 25 copper ore + 10 charcoal + 13 clay Bloomery should of produced 5-10 Copper depending on education level. Are you sure you let the building fully operate and expire before demolition?

I do understand your concerns regarding not being able to achieve many things in a short time at the beginning, but this is in a way a planned element of this mod. I expect new players to the mod to not start achieving a fully operating stable town industry until the 2-3rd generation.

I myself also fail in some of my tests. The on surface map ore and stone resources are finite and if you are not careful you can easily exhaust them and not be ready for mining. Getting a small tool industry operating is essential, limit the amount of buildings you build that require iron, and also limit your population growth by not building too many houses at a time and also delaying couples to have children (and number of children) by keeping them at their parents houses longer. Concentrate on food, forestry, and bronze tools. Don't spend too long using charcoal-piles or bloomeries, build the timber mill early on for Firewood and Timber production, a blast furnace will improve efficiency over bloomeries, so should be an early planned and built building as soon as you make enough building requirements. Try to get into mining first for the coal-coke production to use in the furnaces and blacksmiths. It is then a delicate balance of staggering production cycles at sites and building up a lamp oil (or candle) industry for further mining. Don't be tempted to build things like the hospital too early and waste precious iron, you will be struck by disease often, but in short doses and more often than not your citizens will survive, though death is still a common occurrence for some illness and disease and you will have more idling while unwell. Once you get past a certain point after building up the industry, you should find the game no longer as difficult, as long as you still maintain a stable food production/supply.

There will be a large health and happiness drop at the start of the game as the game calculates that what makes them healthy and happy is not available (they start with full stars and hearts). It is not easy to get them happy and healthy, they will need all 4 food groups to be healthy, plus for happiness they want a larger selection of 15+ different foods to eat. They want to achieve more work than standard game, so make sure you don't have citizens living too far away from work-storage-market-happiness idling locations, etc. Though you may get slightly more idling when unhappy and unhealthy and disease will hit more often, I still suggest on concentrating on the production of a tool and mining industry first.

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2019, 08:03:01 AM »
I had a question about the happiness system. On the structures that have a negative happiness detractor on them, is that for only when they are in operation, so only when they are working they are making people unhappy? Or do they make people unhappy just by their presence regardless of whether they are operational or not?

I wonder if Thadd Surrel and his family are a bunch of hoity-toity city dwellers! They'll sell anything but livestock; I guess they didn't want to deal with the stink and mess of it all!  I'm glad to hear they've come to their senses and will soon trade in livestock, there's a profit to be made there so they should just think about that, use their fingers to pinch their noses, and smile while counting the influx of coin!  ;D                
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Offline Nilla

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2019, 08:31:22 AM »
Im sorry, @MarkAnthony for not looking well enough. I suppose I mistook the barrels for clay and sand. I should have known that youll think about well-located stores.

Yes, I (often) like to trade. Especially when Im using a mod like this. "Industrial" means to me you produce something on an industrial scale in order to buy something else. In Banished the most valuable thing to buy is food. I can also confess that Im no big fan of farming. But since the "purchase office" is new, I havent used it. I have tried that port where you only sell for coins but only short because I saw no use of it. But I will try these ports, too in my next game. In the North, the coin trade makes a lot of fun.

Its hard (impossible?) to get full happiness and health. I dont know @Discrepancy if youve made any changes here since one of the earlier betas, where I really tried to go for it in one of the test games but not fully succeeded. My experience so far is that improving health rather pays off than improving happiness. The only way is to have a full diet and a good distribution of food. And herbalists are useless or I would say really harmful unless you have managed this. And @MarkAnthony, Im not sure but I think that as soon as the building with the black circle stands, it starts to detract happiness or it doesn't really detract happiness, it just makes it harder to raise the happiness over 3 stars.

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2019, 09:12:58 AM »
Thank you @Nilla, for your reply. I too think just the presence of the building is enough to detract happiness but then I wondered if maybe it worked the way the Vanilla Church did, where it's only supposed to provide happiness if it was staffed with a Cleric.

So you have no experience with the Thadd Surrel & Family traders either, okay. I sure do hope that when I manage to get it built that they are pretty early with seed offerings! There's no way I am gonna get that Vanilla Trader built (for livestock), or the Vanilla Tailor for that matter, they each want 40 Iron to build. Fuhgitaboutit>:(

Here's how precious that Iron Ore is for me in this current game: First of all this game didn't start with the Ore Smelters like my two previous games did, so I didn't have any Iron Ore that magically appeared and pre-built a Bloomery for me.  I have to grab the stuff myself (or my Banies do on my behalf). With my village at dead center of the monitor fully zoomed out - the whole area within the monitor gave me four single, iron ore spots (red dots). I panned the camera on both sides of the monitor and selected those areas too and only got a few more. So for such a large area, I got only about a dozen ore "red dots" to gather up. No way in hell am I wasting it on a Vanilla structure that wants so much (40 ea) thinking this is like the "old days" when Iron just graced us with it's abundant presence everywhere on the map!

Haven't they heard the news yet?! Geesh. The Aliens (@Discrepancy) came and beamed up all of our iron, there's none to be had any more. Were in a new dystopian age now!  ???    lol

"... walks away and mumbles something about "Where the hell is my (tin) hat at? Damn thievin' Banies! Now the Aliens will hear my thoughts." ...
               
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:22:10 AM by MarkAnthony »
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Offline brads3

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2019, 09:47:48 AM »
i think i am more used to the lack of iron. in CC you do need to conserve it. to smelt iron took like 2 more buildings,1 to smlt the iron ore and a fuel refinery. even with the RK EC,you only have enough iron at start for 1 or 2 buildings better make the right 1 or you have to wait for merchants to bring more.

    i can send my indians to teach you to make and repair tools.arrowheads and tomahauks work really well to cut down trees or hunt deer.

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2019, 10:16:41 AM »
Didn't your gremlins eat those Indians?   ;D
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