Author Topic: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2019, 07:25:15 AM »
        to me it makes more sence to drop the health down as slowly as possable.wheeras you and MARK drop it instantly to 0, it should take a couple years to fall that far. thus giving you time to buid supplies and attempt to overcome the health issues.if health goes down say 25% then production drops but not to badly. at 50% drop to health,it becomes much harder to keep the town supplied. under 50%, you should run into serious problems.   
LOL, I'm not waving a wand at them saying... "Hey... you there!  ZAP!  No health for you!"  (Tv series "Friends" reference, "No soup for you!")

The super-low/zero drop is as Discrepancy once said somewhere... "the # of Hearts changes after the game recalculates what makes a citizen happy"; Discrepancy changes those variables; when the game catches up and says, "Okay, Discrepancy said to make them unhealthy if this...this..this; so unhealthy they shall be!"  ZAP  zero hearts in 3 months.

I'm just minding my own business trying to get a town running same as everyone, the hearts drop all on their own with no input from me. Discrepancy even said, some of these high-society type Banies want 15 different food varieties... you don't have that anywhere near close to the start of a game.
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2019, 09:51:13 AM »
Sorry, @MarkAnthony  for just throwing something out like that about the "odd things" I accuse you of doing. I ought to be ashamed.  :-[  I don't mean anything special, just small things, I observe you do and that we also sometimes discuss, like start to build roads before anything else, like clearing all resources in an area if you need them or not, like collecting a lot of logs to make a huge stock of charcoal, just in case your Bannis will burn some in their houses instead of using those logs to make a large pile of firewood, so that they don't need to fire away the valuable charcoal and such small things.

And @brads3, Mark is right; we don't choose to give our Bannis a poor diet. We got that as "gift" from @Discrepancy. As soon as one food category is missing health drops to 0. Fast! As long as you don't have enough of each, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. That's why it seems that we don't worry about it at the beginning. And of course you need markets, you need them close to all houses, not only those from vendors and traders I talk about. You know, Brad, normally a Banni eats at home. As long as they have a close market with all food categories the house will contain what they need to get 5 hearts. The problem with vendors and traders is that they work all over the map. If they are too far away from home as they get hungry, they grab something in the closest barn and don't care one bit if it's healthy or not. With this mod; one wrong meal and 2 hearts are instantly gone. Herbalists do improve health with 2 hearts as well but they are fast gone if the Banni doesn't have a very good next meal. And since he's away from home; "visiting the herbalist", the chance is big that he grabs something on the way, lose the just regain hearts and must go to the herbalist again. A never-ending loop where there's very little time to work.

And I think @MarkAnthony the 15 different kinds of food are needed to easier get full happiness, not for health.

Offline MarkAnthony

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2019, 01:48:17 PM »
... just small things ... (1) like start to build roads before anything else, (2) like clearing all resources in an area if you need them or not, (3) like collecting a lot of logs to make a huge stock of charcoal...

And I think @MarkAnthony (4) the 15 different kinds of food are needed to easier get full happiness, not for health.
(1) Maybe half the time. When I first start playing Banished, yeah I laid roads all over the place; after I learned to do otherwise it's only small sections here and there only since I mostly remove the main throughways and keep the T-sections until I'm ready to move into that area.

(2) Never do that! Correction: Again when I first started I did but that changed quickly from watching videos. I haven't done that in the last 2.5 months (out of 3) that I have played.

(3) Guilty as charged!  ;D Like I said, I just wanted to get one done so as I wouldn't have to worry about it again for a long while, if ever again. I also had it paused up until the last time I played, I unpaused it at the end of year 4 where I stopped last time to go to work (in real life) so it wasn't like I was stealing logs from the Banies the whole game, just from the point of where I logged off for the night.

(4) Thanks for the clarification - either way... snobby Banies regardless!   :P
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2019, 03:51:25 AM »
Now Iīve played 40 years. The town is small, almost everything can be shown on one screenshot. If you look at the first picture, you can see that Iīve (temporarily) have closed all tool/iron/ore production. I simply "swim" in tools. Sorry to say @Discrepancy; as hard as the more difficult starting options are at the beginning, as easy it becomes to support a settlement with industrial products. Here mainly hardened tools. I like that you can produce a lot; after all, itīs industry. It should be able to produce a lot, much more than a few small craftsmen can but the profit is still too high.

Iīll see if I can decipher my notes and tell some numbers from this settlement. I havenīt worked all too much to get extremely high production, but I think itīs pretty good. Everything is close, there are industrial markets and charts to gather material to the sites, Iīve closed the herbalists, I havenīt bothered to settle the workers outside the black circles, so they have short ways home. The workers in the industrial area have a good supply of all the goods they need and are reasonably healthy. There are a lot of labourers to do the carrying around. So I think conditions are pretty much as good as they can get, maybe except the supply of timber. I didnīt load the smaller timber mill, and there was no place close the industry to locate the large mill. The industrial markets hold a lot of different goods and I also have several small charts from the Wagon Vendor mod to move timber from the mill area at the river, but when I look, there is seldom timber at these locations.

Anyhow, last year we produced 1354 hardened tools worth 36 each. Thatīs a trade value of 48 744! How many workers were directly involved? When I exclude traders and vendors I come to a little less than 50; so about 1000 trade value for each.

To make 1354 tools you need 677 iron, 677 timber, 1354 coke and 8 blacksmiths
To make 677 iron you need 1016 iron ore, 339 lime, 667 coke and 4,5 blacksmiths (I prefer the option with lime unless I have too much iron ore or a lack of lime)
To make 1016 iron ore you need 203 timber, 203 lamp oil and 7,4 miner
To make 339 lime you need 42 stone, 42 coke and 1,1 worker and another 0,7 worker for stone cutting and production of the stonemason tools
To make 1354+667+42=2073 coke you need 1280 coal and 2,5 workers
To make 1280 coal you need 256 lamp oil and 256 timber and 9,1 miner
To produce 677+203+256=1136 timber you need 568 logs and 3,3 workers
To produce 568 logs you need 5,6 workers
To produce 203+256= 459 you need 612 linseeds, 77 pottery and 77 firewood and 1,5 worker and we can estimate that another 2 workers are needed to produce the raw materials.

I hope I havenīt forgotten anything. I dived the workforce in blacksmiths, miners and workers who produce other needed raw material than ore. If we round up we get about; 13 blacksmiths, 17 miners, 18 workers; a workforce of 48 Bannis.

I have also looked a bit more into each step in the production, to see where it would be reasonable to cut the profit.
Again; my production numbers in this dense settlement from my messy notes, I can only hope that they are correct.

The numbers after each product/profession/site are: profit for 1 product/ production for 1 worker/annual trade profit for 1 worker

Hardened Tools/TS Blacksmith; 9/150/1350
Iron (lime version)/Blast furnace; 17,5/150/2625
Iron ore/TS Industry Mine; 3,6/140/502
Coal/TS Industry Mine; 2,6/140/364
Coke: 5,5/800/4400
Lime/Battery Lime oven; 2,5/300/750
Lamp Oil; 0,3/300/90
Timber/TS Timber mill; 1,5/350/525

Summary;; The metal/tool production is still very profitable. It would make sense to set the value down of iron (and iron products). The coke oven is still extremely profitable, even if the production is now down to a more reasonable value. It could be cut a little further, but mainly the price of 8 is too high. Even if coal mining isnīt that profitable I guess it would be even better than tools to export coke. But with the lamp oil, you were a bit too eager to reduce the profit; if I had made these calculations earlier, I might have considered buying the lamp oil instead of producing it. ;)
First picture
Almost the whole settlement

Second picture

I couldnīt buy enough food, so I needed two more Purchaser's Office.  ::)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 03:58:40 AM by Nilla »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2019, 07:08:27 AM »
The problem with trade in Banished always is that prices need to be set high enough that the really important items can't just easily be purchased in the early game, but then in the later going, those same high prices mean that as a producer you can buy pretty much anything you want to buy, subject to the limits of TP space. 

What does the Purchaser's Office do?

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2019, 07:53:11 AM »
Iīm aware of that dilemma about the prices @irrelevant, Iīm sure @Discrepancy is, too. And thatīs one reason for us to test it; give help to find something in the middle; not too low to be too easy to buy at the beginning, not so high that it doesnīt make any fun to go on with the settlement when youīve made the full development. Certainly not easy!

At the Purchaserīs office, you buy everything you need, I buy almost only food but you should pay with gold, silver and gems that you get in that other part of the trade complex. You can barter with some goods but the merchant only pays about half of the normal value.

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2019, 01:46:05 AM »
Thanks @Nilla , I was aware that it gets very easy in the game after a certain point, but your production numbers are great and will help me :)

Tools will be getting a durability and value change next update along with adjustments to the iron/metal values. Hardened tools will not be as durable as they are now.

I agree I was a little too heavy handed in my reduction of the lamp oil production and profits. Thanks I will increase this slightly also.

 

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