Author Topic: Aging Mod Challenge  (Read 2205 times)

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Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2019, 01:44:45 PM »
@Abandoned

Yes..  easy/medium/hard determine starting conditions and that's it.   All three have the same conditions whether you use the aging mod or not.  Starting conditions do not alter game play any further then the start.  I don't see how it's relevant to a conversation about aging mods.

Having already done many successful hard and other extreme starts, I don't bother anymore.  They became extremely boring and time consuming to me.   So I use easy starts so that I can get on with building things out and skip the hours of mind numbing micro managing only to end up where the easier start would put me anyway.   Since I like to build faster, I have no use for aging mods.  For me, it would slow progress down and add insanely annoying on top of boring and time consuming.

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2019, 02:50:08 PM »
wow, so you do not speak from experience using aging mods.  Easy start and debug, extremely easy, (I imagine since I have never used debug) well then yes, you would find an aging mod very hard even with an easy start.  Of course with or without an aging mod, you can speed the game up using 5x or even 10x speed.  Perhaps, you are the one to take on this challenge.  Use all my exact same map setting, same map seed and easy start, the only mod allowed is an aging mod of your choice  Of course NO Debug.  Play one map vanilla only and another with aging mod, and tell us which is harder and which you like best.  :)

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 03:13:43 PM »
You clearly cannot comprehend and I'm tired of dealing with your idiocy.   You clearly have a problem with me and just looking for a reason to dismiss me.  That's fine!

I DON'T USE DEBUG WHILE PLAYING A NORMAL GAME!  How you manged to assume I always use debug  just proves you have some weird agenda instead of actually reading what I wrote.

I also clearly stated I have successfully done many hard and extreme starts.  It's not a challenge for me anymore, it's actually really easy which is why I decided it was pointless, boring and too time consuming starting at that level anymore.  Been there, done that.

I use debug when I want to play around with stuff strictly for the city building aspect.

Of course with or without an aging mod, you can speed the game up using 5x or even 10x speed.

LMFAO!!   Ummm...  that doesn't alter the game settings for aging.   And yes I do play on 10x speed.   I don't want to take 5 months to play one round of this game.


you would find an aging mod very hard even with an easy start. 
@Abandoned

No, I wouldn't.  I would find it very boring waiting for everything to balance out to keep building.  More of the same, just takes a lot longer.   That's NOT HARDER, just more time consuming.


Sadly, you won't fully comprehend any this YET AGAIN!.....
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 03:33:39 PM by theonlywanderer »

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 03:29:04 PM »
So, I comprehend you are not accepting the "Challenge" that this thread is all about.  Thank you for you opinions.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2019, 03:39:37 PM »
There is no challenge to accept.   What is the challenge?   

You trying to have the same population during the same amount of years with an aging mod that you would with Vanilla?  Of course it's going to take longer with an aging mod.

What is the challenge supposed to demonstrate? 

Seems to me, you only demonstrated what an aging mod does, no real challenge was achieved.

Offline kid1293

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2019, 04:27:38 PM »
I've done an aging mod myself and must say there are differences in the long run.

In the very long run, it does not matter. Things stabilize after a number of years.
Be it many or very many.

After 5 years a vanilla bannie is certainly a parent. With an aging mod, he is still a child.
Measure in years is pointless. Measure in lifespans. Generations!
What is accomplished during their lifetime?

Do many tests with/without aging mods. Don't bother about years.
Do villages die out in either way? Then that alternative is certainly more of a challenge.
That is what this thread is about. --- Edit - as I understand it.

@theonlywanderer - There is a truth hidden in a post from @Abandoned

Good points @theonlywanderer thanks  :)  I don't have a problem with either, but vanilla game difficulty levels - easy, medium, and hard are based on more people and resources is easier than less people and resources.  Vanilla aging produces more people sooner.  :)

You can always counter with - more people need more food, it is still hard and resources end faster in vanilla.
True, the challenges are there all the time but which village survives?

Sorry, Wanderer. Nothing personal :)

It all boils down to the way you like to play -
- being busy and micromanage a lot or go with the flow and try to survive.

Either can be done in vanilla or in real time.

We're all different. No harm in trying to find if vanilla is easier or harder!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 04:39:57 PM by kid1293 »

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2019, 05:42:25 PM »
@Abandoned

Ok, so I used  the same map and same aging mod.

Year 5
15 Homes
6 Families
35 Citizens
12 Adults
6 Students
17 Children
100% educated

So what?   It wasn't any more difficult, just more time consuming since you have to build and wait, build and wait.  You just control your kids via housing.   Again.. so what?   You can't build or expand as fast.    If building slow is your preference, fine, but it's not harder, just more time consuming.

Having to wait does not add difficulty, it adds time.    I fail to see anything that's harder unless you want to create achievements that are unrealistic for the settings that were changed.    You can do that for Vanilla or with aging mods.   We can create all kinds of challenges that make Vanilla seem insanely hard.    But within the focus of the game, the aging mod does nothing more then force you to slow everything down.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2019, 06:08:50 PM »
@kid1293

Well, my whole point is that vanilla cannot be compared with an aging mod without adapting.   If somebody tries to play the same way in both versions, then yes, aging mod becomes a lot harder, but that's fabricating difficulty.  Since the settings have been changed, game play has to change.   If game play is adapted to the new settings, it's not any more difficult, but just takes longer for everything to happen and your focus changes.   Where you would normally build 4 houses, you now only  build 2 and then wait.... build and wait...  build and wait.    It's just agonizingly slow to me, which some people enjoy and that's fine for them, to each their own.    But that still doesn't make it more difficult.

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2019, 07:37:28 PM »
 :) Thank you @theonlywanderer for trying aging mod and for your opinion that it is not more difficult.


Offline Abandoned

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2019, 10:26:12 PM »
I thought the productions totals after 5 years for both maps, played basically the same, were interesting.  Map 1 without aging mod population was 46 (28 adults), map 2 with aging mod the population was 30 (12 adults).  The totals were shown on the 2 overview pictures at the beginning of the thread.

Map 1 - 45 logs,  36 stone, 22 iron, 256 firewood, 124 tools, 94 clothes, 4,252 food, 117 herbs, 36 textiles.

Map 2 - 98 logs, 102 stone, 26 iron, 216 firewood,  68 tools, 90 clothes, 5,101 food, 105 herbs, 70 textiles.

With less than half the workers and a lot of micro-managing map 2 produced almost as well or in some cases better in the same amount of time.  Factoring in the population difference, it would appear the production rate was about the same.




Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2019, 10:40:43 PM »
First of all, you don't tell me where I can and cannot post.  Second of all, you are just as condescending, dismissive and rude, but you try and disguise it better.

For the last time....   changing aging does not affect production or anything else.   Why would it?    You keep saying that all kinds of stuff changes by altering the ages and it doesn't.   They produce the same amount of tools, same amount of clothes, same amount of everything.  They need the same amount of food, carry the same amount of stuff, work the same length of time.   If the modder has altered any other values other then aging, well, it's no longer just an aging mod is it?

If you don't like me challenging your challenges, well... that's odd, cause isn't that the point?   You asked and I am answering and you are in denial of the obvious.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 02:36:09 PM by theonlywanderer »

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2019, 11:08:15 PM »
I've always felt that (RT, 1:1, or slower) aging mods do make the game easier, and I sometimes agree that they are boringly slower.

Food production I think is too easy with most of the RT, 1:1 ageing mods later in game unless you basically grow too fast and don't put as many food workers on as you should. Same with firewood production.
I think Luke used the wrong description name for the starting conditions. I don't think having more people make things easier, just puts you forward a few steps, having a jump start, this doesn't make a difference to the rest of the gameplay.

But when we compare if it is truly easier?...
I'm kind of at a loss with trying to compare the two. As depending on the extent of the changes within each ageing mod it can make some things more difficult for some players(*note does not mean it is hard) while others not so. It has anything to do with the time being changed in aging mods.

It is only about the changes that happen to the other variables that will make things easier or harder. That is those that alter food intake, production values, quantities, work time, etc. Aging will only alter the speed at which it happens (you'll still see the movie play at 1x or 5x speed, doesn't actually make it easier or harder - lol or does it? depends on the movie).

I've not played a mod that has achieved this successfully apart from the North.
But, I personally think the North was harder when we were playing at full speed....


Offline kid1293

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2019, 12:21:04 AM »
Good Morning.

@theonlywanderer - I agree that mathematically the aging does not influence anything in terms of harder/easier.
I lay a long time with thoughts about it tonight. As you say, if it suits your gameplay it feels easy.

Thank you @Discrepancy I came to the same conclusion that the other values are determining if people
survive or not. Too late childbirth or a too long time in school maybe does not give enough food for the next
generation.

@Abandoned - A big thank you for raising the question. I am convinced that I play better with an aging mod.
It is easier to have a stable population who does not only 'blink by' in time.


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2019, 01:27:19 AM »
I find it a bit fussy to see "harder" only as something more intellectually demanding. It's a common thing in games that it just needs more time, not more brain.

For me, vanilla Banished was almost unplayable at that time with speed aging, but not because it was fast or easy or hard, it was just weird. I liked such a simulation of settling down and doing some farming etc in a simple but realistic environment but wtf.. crops grow in real seasons and even sheep age in real time, only the people get ready after 2 years and then waste away as they are cloned or not from this world.^^ Just the opposite of what the game is about.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Aging Mod Challenge
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2019, 06:23:23 AM »
I find it a bit fussy to see "harder" only as something more intellectually demanding. It's a common thing in games that it just needs more time, not more brain.

I'm not even going to bring other games in to this, it's irrelevant.  Each game is it's own thing.   

How do you justify calling something harder in banished just because it has to be done for a longer time?  It's not literally physical work, it's clicking a mouse and waiting.

The vanilla game is initially a difficult game until you figure it out and it becomes easy.   Aging mods don't make it any harder initially, just different and slower and will be just as easy once figured out.