Author Topic: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.  (Read 1097 times)

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Offline theonlywanderer

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Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« on: August 03, 2019, 09:48:46 AM »
This is part one all the way to Isolationist Challenge

I used a test map for the images in this thread just to demonstrate the hubs and show the uneducated differences in production.


These are the critical achievements for an all in one map.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Mountain Men - Small, harsh, mountainous map
- Golden Gate - Must be able to place a 50+ tile long bridge
- Uneducated - No schools  until 300 population
- Isolationist - No trading docks until 300 population
- One with nature - No crops, pastures, or orchards until 400 population

Initial main goals are to get food, shelter, and fuel going, bannies die without these.  Tools and clothing can wait for bit since they won't die without these.    Tools and clothing do not affect food production the same way education does.   Education affects food quantity produced, where tools and clothing affects the time it takes to produce.  The distinction is practically irrelevant for food production since both limit the overall production for the year.

Uneducated is the most difficult aspect of this challenge due to such inefficiency of everything.

Uneducated gatherers collect only 16 from food spawns versus 22 educated.
Uneducated hunters produce only 160 food and 4 leather per deer versus 200/6 educated.
Uneducated fishermen produce 5 food/square versus 7 educated.
Uneducated foresters produce 2 logs per tree versus 3 educated.
Uneducated woodcutters produce 3 firewood per log versus 4 educated.
Uneducated tailors produces 1 coat versus 2 coats educated for the same materials.
Uneducated blacksmith produces 1 tool versus 2 tools educated for the same materials.

Fishing is one of the best examples to demonstrate the effects of tools and clothing. On a test map I used a typical bend in the river where the majority of fishing spots end up being.  I let two years pass to insure they had a full years production with each scenario.

1 fishermen, uneducated, no tools, no clothing:  100
1 fishermen, uneducated, tools, no clothing:  470
1 fishermen, uneducated, tools, clothing:  515
1 fishermen, educated, tools, clothing:  686

As you can see, fishing will only feed themselves until they have tools, get a little better with clothing and much better with education.

For gatherers I used two locations with forest in full growth.   Seems tools/clothing doesn't have much effect.

1 gatherer, uneducated, no tools, no clothing:  928 / (weird log thing happened)
1 gatherer, uneducated, tools, no clothing:  992/896
1 gatherer, uneducated, tools, clothing:  848/912
1 gatherer, educated, tools, clothing:  1276/1474

For hunters I also used two locations.  The numbers varied and tools/clothing didn't really have any effect.  Hunters are extremely inconsistent due to roaming deer.   Ideally you would locate the grazing spots and have multiple spots within your hunters diameter, but we're not in an ideal situation with this challenge.

1 hunter, uneducated, no tools, no clothing:  480/640 - 12/16
1 hunter, uneducated, tools, no clothing:  800/320 - 20/8
1 hunter, uneducated, tools, clothing:  320/800 - 8/20
1 hunter, educated, tools, clothing:  800/800 - 24/24

Here we go...   let's start building.   At first I am going to go through just about every step because they are critical during early game.  I will lighten up a bit later as things become more flexible with choices.   Unless I mention otherwise, when I say place one building next to another, it means allow at least one square space.

First get your stock pile set right next to your cart and collect some stone and logs within immediate reach.  Can't do much without having some resources stocked up.   We're going to build a hub consisting of gatherer, forester, hunter, woodcutter, barn, stockpiles and some houses.

It's no surprise the gatherers hut has become the default first building most people place and it's no different with this challenge except we don't have ideal conditions so you'll have to place it optimally as possible within reasonable distance of your cart just to get some food coming in.  But give yourself enough room to continue collecting logs without interfering with your gatherers.   Place your hut in the best orientation to allow it's frontal path to extend out in either direction, this will become a main directional path for other buildings.  Figure another path along either side of the hut that will form your main hub intersection.

The woodcutter is next, you have to get firewood going or homes will be pointless.   Place the woodcutter on the same path as the gatherer, but down a bit to allow for the future forester lodge which goes directly across from the gatherer right at the intersection.  You need a forest to spawn food for gatherers so having the forester lodge and gatherers hut as close as possible is required.   Put the forester lodge in place, but pause it and put a 2x5 stock pile right next too it, don't skip a square and place another behind it 2x7.   Allow one square next to the stockpile and place your woodcutter on the main path.   Keep in mind to watch log supply and continue to manually harvest trees.  Even when we get the forester in place, they will be useless at cutting for awhile.

With food and firewood now being stocked, it's time to get some homes built.   We want to start off with wood homes because stone is limited at this time of the game.    At the moment all you have is a head count of how many adults and children.  Hard start is 8 adults and however many children it decides.   I build a home for every two adults, so you will need four homes for the time being.     Check your stock pile for enough resources first and collect what you need.    Using your main path, place a home next to the gatherers hut, opposite the intersection, allowing for one square between them.   Place your next home right next to the other home, do not skip a square.  On a tight map you need to maximize space, but still allow bannies to flow around everything.   We still need two more homes so place them the same way except on the other side of the path next to the woodcutter allowing for the one square.

You can go ahead and unpause the forester to get him built and planting, don't bother cutting.

At this point everything should be reasonably stable and a good time to pause the game and have a look around the entire map.   Locate all the resources and determine what is needed to access to them.   If you need any bridges, this is the time to build them while you have stone available.   Try to build bridges that align with your main intersection when possible, but not entirely necessary.

Food should be doing reasonably well and it's time for better storage.   Check and collect more resources if necessary and then place a barn at the main intersection.   You can place it at either corner and whatever orientation you want.   I prefer to have the barn entrance on the same main path.

By now, tools and clothing have been depleted, but aren't necessary at the moment so don't sweat it.

We want to continue our food production so check resources again, collect what you need and place the hunters lodge at the only corner left.  I prefer to have the entrance on the main path, but not critical.

By the time the lodge is done, you'll need another house or even two.  Place these the same way as before, but next to the hunters lodge or barn skipping one square again.   Keep the main flow down the main path.   We need all the efficiency we can create while everyone is uneducated.   

By now, everything has sort of defined itself... we needed food, fuel, shelter, and storage.   We have that covered now with our first full hub.

With the completion of our first hub, it's time to expand outward.   First and foremost, we are looking for the optimal placement of gatherer huts.   Follow the paths straight out from the current main intersection in whatever direction gets you to the next closest area for a hut.   Try not to overlap the hut areas any more then necessary, but be sure to cover as much area as you can with each new hut.   Better to overlap another hut a bit if it means covering an area that would otherwise be missed.     The hut doesn't have to be on a perfect straight path to the main hub, but it's always a plus if possible.  Place your hut and pause it so you have a reference to build out the rest of your second hub, but don't place anything else except the forester.   Place and build your second forester and get him planting.   Scout out the next closest gatherer hut to your main hub to place and pause it as well.  Place and build your third forester and get him planting.     These two are fine working without homes nearby.  They really aren't that far from the main settlement and aren't doing anything but planting.    Go ahead and define your paths back to the main hub also.

Since foresters are so insanely inefficient and our map so small, we need to overcome that by eventually placing foresters in every conceivable location to cover the entire map with trees.  Foresters can overlap just fine and in some cases need another forester in between two hubs to cover any gaps.   But for now, we don't want them going to far out in order to work.   So, if a fourth gatherer hut location happens to be within a reasonable distance, go ahead do the same thing there.    Our goal here is to have forests available for clear cutting while another forest is growing and another hub is being built.  It takes two years for a forest to mature.

Now you must choose which hub to fully build out next.   You want to build out the hub that has potential for more hubs beyond it.    If hub two is deadlocked in a canyon or at the end of the map and hub three has space beyond, let's build out hub three and use hub two for clear cutting as a log source.   If you started a fourth hub, does it offer better expansion then three?   You just want to the next hub to have the most potential for further expansion outward.

Start the hub by unpausing the gatherers hut.   While it's being built, locate the rest of your hub buildings along with three homes to get some people nearby.    Keep checking your resources and collecting more stones and logs as needed.   None of the foresters should be set to cut at the moment so you should be checking log supply constantly.   Watching resources is a never ending thing, so just figure on doing that constantly and we'll just assume it's always being done from now on.

By the time your second hub is fully built out, the forest should be doing well also.

Now is a good time to find a reasonable location for a stock pile between the two built hubs, but out of the way of any hub influence and start collecting all the remaining stone and iron located within the influence of both hubs.  You will need more resources soon anyway and you want to start maximizing the space for trees and spawning food.    You can wait on clearing out hub two for now, we'll use that stone for that hub.   

This is also a good time to check food storage capacity.   Hopefully your food production is in full swing and your starting to stock lots of extra food which means more barns are needed as they start too fill up.  As much as you hate to do it, that means putting them as close to the gatherers and hunters as possible.   It's another judgement call based on your map and what is available.   You want to keep the forest clear as possible, but you also need storage nearby.  If the only barn nearby fills up, they will spend way too much time going to the next available barn for every drop off.   At some point, you'll just have to suck it up and use the space you have, it's very limited on such a small map.   If you try and keep the barns in between the hut areas, both huts will have to walk clear across their entire diameter to reach a drop off.  If you go that route, you'll need barns at every quadrant in order to make it work efficiently and that's perfectly fine.   That's part of the game, each map has it's own unique possibilities.   Another, yet more cumbersome option, is to place the new barns out of the hub influence and manually set the full barn to demo which forces the barn to be emptied in to the next available barn and then just reclaim the barn.   You can do this for a bit, but it starts to become overwhelming trying to keep up as you get more hubs fully built and they keep filling up their barns.  It starts to waste a lot of time moving all that stuff around and you'll end up ultimately needing to put the barns where they should of been in the first place.  So don't create all the extra work for yourself and just keep the barns as close as possible.    You could also move the houses out a bit further from the center of the hubs and allow for future barns right in the middle of the hub.   At some point it's just shuffling the same things around.  Either your workers take longer to drop stuff off or they take longer going to and from home.  Everything is a compromise on such a small map since every space is trying to allow double and triple duty.  Bottom line... keep those gatherers as efficient as possible.

Another benefit of stocking up lots of food is that you can easily set the food limit back down allowing all the food production workers to automatically change to laborers to help clear cut a forest area or deliver a bunch of resources to buildings, whatever tasks need immediate attention they can all rally to get it done.  Then you just set the food limit back up high and they all go back to work.   This allows you to keep everybody in a productive job and only use them as laborers when you need them instead of having a bunch of excess laborers around doing nothing.

Since we have built out hub three, we don't want to do any clear cutting to it so find the next area closest to hub three and repeat the gatherer hut/forest lodge scenario from before and get the next hub located and the forester started planting.    You always want to try and have at least two outer forest areas being planted and maturing.   You clearcut one while the other one is maturing so you always have a mature forest as a log source.   The sooner you can establish more outer forests, the better off you'll be.

At this point we have two main hubs fully built out along with two outer forests as log sources.   We should also have enough population to fill all 16 forester positions and set them to cut and plant which should finally allow a reasonable consistent supply of logs without having to do it all manually.   You'll still need to keep an eye things if you over build and use more logs then they can keep up with.  But at least you have the log situation somewhat under control for now.

Now it's time to get down to business.   Before we keep using up all the stone, we need to get some of the other important buildings in place along with planning future trade ports and all of that good stuff even though it's quite a ways off yet.   You have to plan for certain buildings because they only go in certain areas.   

Let's start by finding every possible position where a trade port can go without actually placing it down.  Just hover over the shorelines until they turn white, look at where it's road path is and place a dirt path there to mark and hold it's location.   Do this for every single possible trade port location you can find on both sides of the river and on any lakes that are part of the river.  There is no such thing as too many trade ports later in game.   Move bridges if you have to if it means you can get another port there.    You have to decide how many you want, but I can assure you more is better.

Next, locate all prime fishing dock options first then fill in any other docks as long as they don't overlap.  For now, these fill ins can also be placed where future trade ports will go.  They are easily demolished later to put the ports in place.   Put all these docks on pause, they are just place holders.   At each fishing dock you want a barn right at the stairs.   Put a small path straight out from the stairs in either of three directions and put the barn in whatever orientation that fits the barn entrance right near the dock stairs.  Place two or three houses on that same path or whatever fits to get them right near the dock.  This your standard fishing hub.  You can place and pause all of these hubs for now so you know everything fits and those spots are reserved.

Now we want to look at good locations for stone quarries, we'll need at least two at some point to get that achievement.   The wiki says quarries need 40 stone to build, but they actually need 40 iron.   You should have a reasonable, but not necessarily plentiful iron supply at the moment since nothing else has required iron until now.   We also need two mine locations for their achievement, but you'll likely need at least four mines at some point.    They need 68 stone to build.   Try to keep these close to your new town center location, but still out of the way.   Usually wherever a couple mines end up, there is open land in front where a quarry can go.   If not, just find some place off the beaten path, out of the way yet still easily accessible even via tunnel or bridge.   You just want to make sure it's using up land that is less desirable for anything else, total judgement call.   Place one quarry and two mines and pause one mine, let the others get built.   If you have some spare people, set the active mine for coal and get it producing (more on this later).   Go ahead and send any spare people to the quarry.  Not having tools at the moment won't hurt overall production of either one, just takes more time.  You'll get the same 7,000 coal, 3,500 iron, and 3,500 stone with or without education or tools.

What's next?

Oh yeah.. the town center.  You need a nice large area that can support a lot of houses, say 30 or so.  Keep this area available for later in the game.   It can take up part of a hub circle because at that point you have bigger things to accomplish then worrying about a few thousand lost in food production.

Right now we still need blacksmiths, tailors, and a hospital.

Without education It's going to take three blacksmiths and three tailors to keep up.   Blacksmiths need 32 iron to build and tailors need 16 iron.    The hospital also needs 32 iron and if you want the town hall it needs 48 iron.    That stock of iron you had isn't look so great now is it?     The town hall can wait and the hospital is a gamble.. your call.

The best location for blacksmiths and tailors are next to a functioning market.   Well, markets take 40 iron.  I remember being a bit frustrated at this point because everything I needed took iron and there just wasn't a crazy supply of it even after clearing the entire map.   So I paused the game and took a step back to look at exactly what it was I really needed at that time.     I had eight gatherer/hunter hubs and food was still climbing so I didn't need to start fishing yet, but eventually I'll have too in order to keep up the food supply.   Mines and quarries produce five times faster with tools.    So, it's important that I get tools stocked up now in preparation and it's also vital that we go straight to steel tools since they last longer.  I learned the tool situation from past failures, which is why I recommended the coal mine get started before we even had a blacksmith to start piling up some coal.     Just be sure to have a stock pile right near the coal mine and have a stock pile of firewood closer to any homes nearby.  They will grab whichever is closer to heat their homes.

Clothes can wait a bit longer because I didn't want to gamble any more without a hospital.  One disease can end a game easily, another lesson learned from past failures.

You should be able to build a path from your mines to the nearest hub with houses.   Build the blacksmith just out of the hub influence toward the mines.  This way it has access to coal, iron and logs without the need for a market just yet.   Build two blacksmiths if you can, place them face to face on the same path.   Set both blacksmiths to steel tools and let them use up the rest of the iron you have left in order to stock up on steel tools.

Go ahead and get the second mine unpaused and built and start producing iron also.   If you try and mine with iron tools, it's practically futile unless you have all 30 workers going at it and even then it always seems like it's barely enough to keep the mines going.   Coal/Iron is  3/1 with uneducated workers.  If you can only have 3 iron miners, you only need 1 coal miner to keep up.  If you have 6 iron miners, you need 2 coal miners... etc.   More is always better though with mines, but when you're low on workers, you do what you have to do.

Now that everything is in place to fully expand, you can start building out the main hubs again, however many you can cram on to the map without overlapping much.  Just keep repeating the stuff at the beginning.... build out a full hub, expand out with another gatherer and forester and just keep filling the map.   

At some point during all the hub builds you want to keep adding more coal miners and iron miners as your population increases.   Get the third blacksmith in place soon as the iron supply is up enough.  Also get your tailors in place.  Put them near barns where the most leather is being stored.   You can spread them out anywhere leather is being stored.

After all the gatherer hubs are in place, fill in any gaps left by hunters with more hunter cabins.   Try and get every heard covered by a cabin.

Now it's finally on to fishing.  By now you should have 3 blacksmiths knocking out plenty of steel tools needed to improve fishing.  Start with all the prime fishing locations first and get them operational as workers become available, then move on to the other docks.   This should once again boost production and you'll need more barns.  Just put them wherever you can staying outside the gatherer areas as much as possible at this point, but do what you have to do to keep stocking up the food.    Just remember to keep that town center available for building lots of houses at some point.

At this point there hasn't been a lot of discussion about building extra homes away from the hubs and that's because it shouldn't be that necessary.    As you build each hub, things should self regulate as you go along building each hub.  You keep adding the necessary homes to increase your population enough to supply all those positions.  You really don't want a bunch of laborers around, they are dead weight and somebody has to feed them.   With that said, you still need to watch your population.   Only you can control the rate at which you build and if you don't maintain a rhythm, you risk old age death or you get too many people and not enough food professions to keep them busy and they become dead weight.  So, watch your population and keep the houses coming enough to fill all your jobs with just a few laborers and builders left over.    I didn't have lots of excess laborers until I pushed for the Isolationist challenge after my map was maxed out with every possible food option and no more jobs even possible.

My rule of thumb early game, if my normal hub homes weren't keeping up, was to add a house every time I saw another even numbered adult total.   12 adults, add a house, 14 adults, add a house.. etc, etc.   Later, when I had the town hall I would add a house when the families synced with the houses.  20 houses, 20 families... add a house.   I wanted new houses available when that next family formed.  You can also wait until 1 extra family... 20 houses, 21 families... add a house.   The other thing I looked at for housing was checking work to home paths.  If not enough housing was taking care of the hub I would put another house down in that hub.   I wanted everyone working right next door.

Adding houses is is bit of judgement call for each person on how they choose to build, but there are limits on too fast or too slow, but there is some leeway.   I do prefer to build as fast as the population allows.  I don't like wasting time letting bannies get old, but sometimes it happens when you have no materials to build more homes.   By building sooner, it gives a bit more space for growth while I wait for materials.   If there are already 30 families in 18 homes and you're still waiting for materials....  well, that's not good.  Not a lot of growth left and people are aging out of birthing ability.

I know there are tricks for using boarding houses, which can help control a population, but I didn't see it as necessary.  I was trying to focus on having a somewhat stable, normal town and not totally out of control at every level.

As mentioned earlier, I had eight main gatherer/hunter hubs so it can take a bit to get them all done depending on how much stone you still had from clearing the map or if you have to mine the stone.   In total I had eight gatherer huts, nine hunter cabins, eight fishing docks and was still desperate to stock even more food even trying fishing docks on creeks.  I had barns going up everywhere starting to take up my gatherer space and everything else, it was crazy.  I had like 50 barns just about stuffed, which is about 300,000 and as I went for the challenge, I could see it even out and start to dwindl as the population began to grow.   I was putting houses everywhere I could before getting in to the gatherer areas trying to keep food production up.  I had 60 miners and 30 stone cutters going at it to keep up with tools and still went out.   You can see in my pics, there were 102 bannies without tools when the Isolationist award came.  My food was gone and clothes were gone....   whew!    Needless to say I had a drastic drop in population before things smoothed out and I could switch over to trading.

So yeah, stock up and up and up and up on that food, but you can't just sit around and only stock up on food because at some point the old age deaths start coming one after another... ding, ding, ding... non stop!  So you have to make a decision on when your food has reached it's max potential, no more storage without compromising production, bannies dying off and growing too old to have babies.   There is no tip for this aspect of the game, it's the part where it only fits with your map and your conditions.   You should have everything in place now to make a run for  the isolationist achievement.

That's all for now.    I will reply back to this thread at another time and continue with the One with Nature achievement.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 04:17:36 PM by theonlywanderer »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 09:54:47 AM »
Very interesting write-up, and well-done. Going to read it again, but one quibble about uneducated workers in quarries and mines. They will get only half as much total production before the mine/quarry is exhausted.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 09:59:15 AM »
"... instead of having a bunch of excess laborers around doing nothing."

Laborers do serve a very important function. They collect and store the production of gatherers, foresters, hunters, fishers, smiths, tailors, and miners, allowing these workers to go on working (instead of collecting and storing their own outputs), thus increasing their efficiency.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2019, 11:48:14 AM »
Interesting to see that different strategies can lead to the goal. My approach from the start was to make as much iron tools and clothing and collect as much stones and iron from the ground as possible with an educated workforce. I deliberately let the uneducated Bannis produce food. Also this way, I could produce enough to survive the hard no-school achievement as it looks like you did doing the opposite.

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 01:16:58 PM »
@irrelevant

Laborers are excess mouths to feed in a challenge like this.  You already have to support foresters, wood cutters, tailors, blacksmiths, miners, and stone cutters.   Up until you make the run for Isolationist, you want the least amount of citizens you can get by with in order to max out every possible food source on the map between gatherers, hunters and then add fishing when you start producing tools.  If you have 10 laborers, it's time for another hut, hunter, or fishing dock, get 4 of them producing food.   Food, food and more food.   You really only need 2 builders and 2 laborers to get most stuff done.   You simply have a limited amount of time to build up as much food as possible and you can't do that with a bunch of excess citizens snagging it up.    If you need a bunch of stone, iron or logs collected quickly, you just free up your food workers for a short time to help get it done and then back to work.

Gatherers and hunters don't need laborers, they will handle their own food.   On a small map, ideal gatherer locations are rare.  You can look at my screenshot one with nature and see the numbers.     I think the best numbers were around 1500 to 1600.  That's only 1,100 left to support an additional 11 people.    Each hub has a forester and cutter, so that's already 5 extra people being supported.   That leaves room for 6 laborers, but if you have those laborers sucking down that extra food, you simply break even and no food gets built up.    But if you look at most of the numbers, they were quite varied with some as low as 500.   Some locations are just tough and will only exist to barely feed themselves with little to stock up, but it's better then having them doing nothing and sucking down all that extra food and defeating the whole idea of stocking up food.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:45:12 AM by theonlywanderer »

Offline smurphys7

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2019, 03:05:48 PM »
The method I use to get all the achievements on one map is "Save, breed, and starve."

I make a super efficient and lean Gathering Hut setup.  I save up tons of food.  I build as many Wooden Houses as I can all at once.  I use all the stone on the map and a single Quarry.  I breed up to 300+, ideally 400+ people.  Then the food runs out and tons of people starve to death.  Which is fine.  Once the achievement is unlocked you can rebuild with Schools, Trading Posts, and ideally Farms as well.

Once everything is unlocked it is easy to store up an outrageous amount of food to "Save, Breed and Starve" all the way up to 900+.

Here's an example picture.  On that attempt I got impatient and started breeding too soon.  I only got up to 380 people before the food ran out.  I still "unlocked" schools and trading posts, so it all worked out.

Here's a youtube link of a summary.  I think that one was on Hard with Disasters on.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 03:09:40 PM by smurphys7 »

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 04:15:17 PM »
@smurphys7

Yep, that's the basic concept for the push up to 300 isolation challenge...  build up food and then become a baby factory! There is no other alternative because it's not possible to stabilize that many citizens on such a small map with just gathering, hunting, and fishing.    It's all about timing, when to push for it and know you can recover after the massive slaughter fest.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2019, 05:47:59 PM »
@irrelevant
Not true about mines and quarries, uneducated workers will get the full production of 3,500 stone, 3,500 iron and 7,000 coal it just takes a lot longer.
Tested it myself, see reply #11. http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=726.0

Also, capacity of a quarry is 3000, not 3500.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 11:51:52 PM »
@smurphys7 and @theonlywanderer it is possible to get all achievements without mass starvation. I didn´t manage it myself; I was too impatient to get all needed gravestones in a "natural way" but if you wait long enough for a bad disease in a large settlement you will manage that too. I got all other achievements with just a few odd starvation deaths. But you are both right; grow slow at the beginning store as much food as you can and then grow fast, is the basic.


Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2019, 02:20:40 AM »
@Nilla

The isolationist challenge in tandem with uneducated and one with nature is where I see starvation afterwards as unavoidable at the moment.   The small mountain map simply can't provide 30,000 food production.   My current cold mountain has every nook and cranny covered and it maxed out at 17,400 yearly food production.   Finding another 13,000 production seems unlikely.   I actually enjoy this all-in-one challenge, so I will continue to try and figure this scenario out and I do have some ideas.

Now, getting to One With Nature, 300/Established, 500/Tenure, 600/Village, and 900/Town is doable without starvation afterwards.   I did that with Alchieva Mountain already and Cold Mountain is doing even better.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2019, 02:32:16 AM »
Tested it myself, see reply #11. http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=726.0

Also, capacity of a quarry is 3000, not 3500.
Just did another test in a 100% uneducated town I had sitting around.

Over five years, a quarry produced 865 stone and has 52% left. Assuming that uneducated have a 50% penalty, this indicates an educated capacity of ~3600 for the quarry.

Over two years, a coal mine produced 1065 coal and has 82% left. Assuming that uneducated have a 50% penalty, this indicates a educated capacity of ~12,000 for the coal mine?? That seems off. I'll continue this for a few more years (after I get some sleep).

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2019, 02:33:58 AM »
@irrelevant

Doesn't surprise me, I found the quarry capacity from a random forum and they claimed to have tested it.   I should have known to test it myself, which I have now done.   Uneducated did cut quantity in half.   Without tools/clothing it took an additional 6 years to empty the mine.

Educated, they mined 3986... weird number, so I assume it's a 4,000 capacity.

Uneducated without tools/clothing, they mined 1993

Uneducated with tools/clothing, they mined 1983

If there is one thing about Banished that really ticks me off is the original game designer never provided proper data for this game.   A lot of random bad information out there and here I was contributing.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:41:02 AM by theonlywanderer »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2019, 02:39:11 AM »
  A lot of random bad information out there and here I was contributing.
Me too, I took my 3000 capacity number from somewhere.....? :(

eta: I don't remember how to add. The total production for five years was 959. At 52% that indicates an educated capacity of ~4000, as you said.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:47:14 AM by irrelevant »

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2019, 03:14:40 AM »
both the quarry and the iron mine have int _maximumProduction = 2000;
I've always assumed and from my own tests think this is how many cycles they will run before expiring...
so the quarry with stone having a create count of 1-2 (unEd-Ed) should produce between 2000-4000
if you only produced coal in the mine it would be 6000-8000 (create count of 3-4),
or if only iron it would be 2000-4000  (create count of 1-2).

Offline Nilla

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Re: Alchieva Mountain - How it was done.
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2019, 03:46:27 AM »
@Nilla

The isolationist challenge in tandem with uneducated and one with nature is where I see starvation afterwards as unavoidable at the moment.   The small mountain map simply can't provide 30,000 food production.   

No, it´s not unavoidable. See here http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1048.0
It was a struggle, the food stores were small, I imported as much food as I could, slowed the population growth down in an artificial way and there were a few starvation deaths but you can see at the graph; no mass starvation. And of course, you are right; you can´t produce 30k food on a small mountain map. But I think you can produce more (and store more) than you did in your last game. I have no numbers on my highest production but somewhere I write that 8000 food each year is missing, so it looks like my production was about 22k.