Author Topic: Collapsing Town  (Read 5353 times)

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Offline Sindri and the Heretics

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Collapsing Town
« on: August 18, 2014, 12:25:43 AM »
Hey guys, just registered here because of an issue I'm having.  I have a town of what's about 500 people total that's been going fine for about 70-ish years that's suddenly starting to collapse.  I have a save file that a couple years after loading, starvation sets in.  Kills off around 50-60 people and completely shatters the trade system, people start dying of cold, basically everything collapses into the dust.  I really don't understand how this happens as the farms are very close to the houses, markets, and barns, and there are a ton of fisheries and four separate hunter/gatherer lodges across the map.  The town is split into two halves because of a large river, and I had tried to make each half self-sufficient.  Apparently it didn't work.  I don't know if its my layout, I don't have enough farms, or what.  Could really use some help here because I refuse to let some dumb oversight ruin this town.

Some screenshots for reference. 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302129590
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302135744
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302129569
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302129559

Offline salamander

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 05:45:39 AM »
Could you post some additional screenshots that show the production screen (if you have a Town Hall), and/or the summary screen with the total population, and the amounts of food, iron, etc...?  I'm wondering how much of a food reserve you're keeping.

From your screen shots, it looks like your food production may be too low to support a population ~500, but I'm not sure if you're showing your whole town or just parts of it.  One of the problems I experience if I try to rely too much on fishing to provide food, is that, although fishing brings in food year-round, the fish are delivered to storage in fairly small amounts at a time.  It's possible that the stored fish are being scarfed up by a lucky few who happen to be at the barn when the fish arrive, leaving others wanting for food.

Offline Sindri and the Heretics

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 07:23:48 AM »
Here's an SS with my town windows open.  Even in the last ten years in that town, the amount of food available has been plummeting for some reason.  Part of the problem I'm having is that the map layout has really restricted where I can put farms that are nearby.  But I am near multiple bodies of water and a large river, so I tried to take advantage of that as much as I could.  And the whole town is in those screenshots.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 10:10:40 AM by Sindri and the Heretics »

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 07:54:16 AM »
Here's an SS with my town windows open.  Even in the last ten years in that town, the amount of food available has been plummeting for some reason.  Part of the problem I'm having is that the map layout has really restricted where I can put farms that are nearby.  But I am near multiple bodies of water and a large river, so I tried to take advantage of that as much as I could.  And the whole town is in those screenshots.
@Sindri and the Heretics I would be interested to see this screenshot. ;)

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 08:49:51 AM »
Hey guys, just registered here because of an issue I'm having.  I have a town of what's about 500 people total that's been going fine for about 70-ish years that's suddenly starting to collapse.  I have a save file that a couple years after loading, starvation sets in.  Kills off around 50-60 people and completely shatters the trade system, people start dying of cold, basically everything collapses into the dust.  I really don't understand how this happens as the farms are very close to the houses, markets, and barns, and there are a ton of fisheries and four separate hunter/gatherer lodges across the map.  The town is split into two halves because of a large river, and I had tried to make each half self-sufficient.  Apparently it didn't work.  I don't know if its my layout, I don't have enough farms, or what.  Could really use some help here because I refuse to let some dumb oversight ruin this town.

Banished doesn't do multiple self-sustaining villages. The entire settlement is always tied together in a variety of ways, some obvious and some not.

In the screenshots on Steam  I see a couple of things that might be important. One is, in the second screenshot (I couldn't get the first one to load) there is one citizen at the bottom left who has a homeless and hungry icon. Might be worth investigating his/her problem. In the third and fourth screenshots I notice that the blacksmith cannot get materials. This could lead to a tool shortage which could lead to a food a fuel shortage. I also agree with @salamander about not seeing as many farms as I would expect for 500 people. Also by that point I would expect multiple trading posts to bring in enough of what you need to supply the population. At 500 people you would need about 60,000 food per year I would think. And I like to have more than a year's worth of food in stock just in case.

What are your firewood and/or coal numbers? With 500 people I would want to have c. 800 or more in supply in Autumn. Have you built a town hall? That will tell you how much you produce vs. how much you consume of various supplies.

That being said, the screenshots with windows open could give more clues.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 08:55:08 AM »
There is a town hall visible in the second of four screenshots, bottom center.

Offline Sindri and the Heretics

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 10:10:27 AM »
My bad with not actually posting the screenshots earlier, it's early in the morning and I was tired.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302315717
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=302251619

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 11:00:46 AM »
What I see is that your food inventory never was especially high, never got above 26,000. That is not enough to sustain your town for a full year. Personally with 500 pop I would want to have 75,000-100,000 or even more food in the bank. Then a couple of years ago it looks like something very bad happened with your food production, the uptick on your food graph barely interrupts the downward slide of the food inventory. The harvest of the following year was not enough to build you any kind of cushion, and your food crashed during the third year of the "event".

Also in the year following the tiny food uptick, it seems like consumption was unusually high. Can you think of any reason for this to have happened? Did you accept a big batch of nomads, or build lots of houses, or trade away a large amount of food?

Related to the low food inventory, I'd say you also need more storage. If all your barns get full, that can interfere with your harvest just as much as an early frost can.

Also, your inventory limits are set very low IMO. Personally I would have them much higher. I set my inventory limits based on at what level I want to get the "low resource" warning alarm. For example, with food, in this case I'd want to be alerted if it fell below 20,000, so I'd set the food limit at 400,000 to achieve that. In any case you certainly don't want the food limit to stop you from producing food!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 11:06:18 AM by irrelevant »

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 11:20:26 AM »
Boy, my numbers were way, way low. Given those consumption numbers you should have several hundred thousand food in storage. I notice that your production of tools and firewood is less than your consumption, too, which would contribute to any other problems. @irrelevant's analysis seems right to me--and you should listen to him as he is one of our two BIG settlement gurus.

The question is whether the town can be saved at this point. It would, I think, take 5-10 game years to make up the food deficit and you may not have that long. When I realized that I was at this point I started over on the same seed and built the town using the techniques I had learned in the meantime. The village blogs here offer some interesting takes on many different ways to build sustainable settlements. Some of the challenge threads are also good learning tools.

Sorry if I sound "teachy." That's what I did for a living for most of my adult life.


Offline irrelevant

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2014, 11:21:46 AM »
@rkelly17 notice that on his inventory tab he has it set to show ten years' production and consumption. ;)

Offline Sindri and the Heretics

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 11:24:04 AM »
I honestly don't know how to have so much food production that I can have tens of thousands of food stocked up.  I would assume I need more farms, but as you can see there's not a lot of flat open ground that is close to town centers and large enough for farms.  I suppose I can try cramming in some small farms in some places, but I never thought that would do much.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 11:30:59 AM »
If you can't produce it another option is to trade for it. Import logs, trade firewood for more logs & food. Import wool, trade wool coats for more wool & food. Import fruit, trade ale for more fruit & food.

Do you remember what caused that exceptionally low food uptick? I've had things like that happen and not even noticed them. That's another reason to pay attention to the "low resource" alarm level.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 11:34:17 AM by irrelevant »

Offline Sindri and the Heretics

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 11:56:40 AM »
I'm not sure what caused that spike.  I suspect it may be similar to what happened to another town I was working on that had about 60-70 people and was sitting on over 10k food all through the year, and it would spike into the high teens in Autumn during Harvest.  But I built about 5 or 6 houses up north of the farmland where I was planning to expand, and within two years half the town starved to death.

Offline salamander

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 01:58:35 PM »
One thing I think you'll find is that some maps will support more population than others, either because of the amount of farm-able land or access to a river/lake for trading.  Just keep in mind that what's possible on one map with certain settings might not be possible on another map with the same settings.  You may be using a map that is simply going to have trouble sustaining a 500+ population.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Collapsing Town
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 03:25:44 PM »
Ok First Sindri : Welcome to World of Banished :)

Secundo, in all time when you play you game you need to keep in mind you need 120 food per Citizen. 500 Citizen * 120 = 60,000 per year. 10k food you feed nothing with that , not even 100 people, so how you can sustain the 400 other people ? i see in your graph you gone to no food at all 4-5 times during that 7 decades and the top you ve got was 26,000. with 26,000 you barely feed a half of your population.

i see also taverns, so also a part of your food wasnt even to feed people, a part was also for fruits for your ale. with what you were making ale ? fruits ?(apple peach plum etc ?) berries ? or worst, all your wheat ?

you need to fix that food problem, you ve got 7 generations of starving people. btw also try to put more bridges if half of your town is one side of the river, some of your folks had to spend a month to get to the other side, and another month to get back, i know i exaggerate but thats the spirit, to go back to that bridge and comeback is alot of time consumming for your folks.

next time you start a city, at the end of year, i want you to check the amount of pop and multiply each time per 120, and then you check how much you produced. and if you have taverns, you need to add 1000 food per tavern per year.

thats the minimum for starting, later you need to try to get double than that.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:27:15 PM by RedKetchup »
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