Author Topic: Education  (Read 249 times)

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Offline Navigator Black

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Education
« on: November 28, 2019, 08:37:36 AM »
A constant uncertainty for me is when to build and activate a school. When do you do it?

I know it's best to have educated workers as early and often as possible, but I find the wait for childhood to student to adult is far too long in the first few years of the game. By the time I've got basic infrastructure up and running, that first generational die off is happening and I desperately need all the adults I can get, so waiting for students to become workers isn't feasible.

The "sweet spot" of education development completely eludes me and I'd like to resolve this.

Offline moonbelf

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Re: Education
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2019, 08:47:55 AM »
I try to have a school up and running asap. The benefits are enormous because they work so much more efficiently: farming, wood chopping, making tools etc. My first school is up by year 3 or 4 at the latest and sooner if I can.

Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Education
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2019, 08:56:01 AM »
I build in this order:
  • School
  • Gatherer
  • Woodcutter
  • One house
After that, I build a blacksmith and the rest of the houses.  If I have seeds, I typically don't bother with them until the second year, but if I have an orchard seed I want to grow, then often I'll start that, and as soon as all the trees are planted, I'll stop working it until it's ready to harvest in three years.

The benefits of education are so large that I have no interest in playing without it. 

Offline brads3

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Re: Education
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2019, 09:04:16 AM »
the main goal is to have the school close to the children.the time walking does count and can slow down their change from student to adult. remember too that the workers help laborers as they hit their limits. you can use this as an advantage.you don't need many coats at the start,so leave the limit ow and the tailor works as a laborer. then raise the limit as your population grows or you start trading.

   i usually let the 1st set of children become workers with no education. by then the educated start bannies are working the main workshops and have stockpiled goods. depending on where you move them the un-educated bannies can become laborers or work a forest,some where they will be more help and do the least harm.

Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Education
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2019, 09:08:02 AM »
Until I have about 20 adults, I make the blacksmith and tailor take turns. 

Online Nilla

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Re: Education
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2019, 02:26:49 PM »
I always look at the age of the children. Maybe the oldest is 5, in such a case, itīs time to build some other things; some food producer and woodcutter first but if thereīs an 8 or 9 years old child, I always start with the school. It pays off!

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Education
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2019, 04:24:20 PM »
@Navigator Black     The sweet spot is dependent on how each person chooses to play the game, so it's a moving target. If we go strictly by vanilla, the sweet spot for a school is right after your basic needs are met like food, shelter, tools, fuel and clothing and these amounts change depending on starting conditions.   Some people take the risk and build the school right away, but that turns a potential provider into a dependent, so right away isn't the sweet spot you are looking for.   

One thing to keep in mind is you need down time or your bannies won't have the time to hook up and have kids.  Early in the game there aren't that many adults to even pair up and everyone is likely going full on non stop at their jobs and there won't be many children popping up to educate anyway.  You're holding up a teacher to educate 1 or 2 kids who could all be used for better things early on even if they aren't as productive.   Once your basic town is stabilized with everything they need. you can relax a bit, build the school and give your bannies some down time to hook up and start pushing out the kids.   Once you build the school, there will be a short lag in progress as you simply maintain what you have while the first round of kids get through school.

At this point it's a matter of building houses to keep more then there are families to allow the children to pair up and move out.   Then just keep providing more jobs as needed to maintain proper supply of all your basic needs. 

Eventually you'll find a rhythm that suits your style.   I like to build fast and furious and push quickly for population growth so I'm always needing something and so I'm always building and managing things.   But the game has it's own time line as well and you can't force it to go faster then it's able too or you throw out the balance.   There is a wide middle ground that you can play in where you can play fast or play slow but either direction too far and it gets ugly.

Offline smurphys7

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Re: Education
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2019, 07:45:59 PM »
There is no right answer.  It is personal preference.  Sometimes I don't build a school ever.  Sometimes I build a school as my first building.

When I want to raise the population as fast as possible I don't build a school.  Uneducated citizens are much more willing to breed immediately upon reaching adulthood.  If the goal of my town is to have a certain population point then I will hold off building a school until I reach that point.  It is possible to survive and thrive with uneducated citizens.

When I want an "easier" experience where I don't need to focus on maximum efficiency I will build a School more quickly.  Educated citizens are far more productive.  The increased productivity allows me to be more lax on the efficiency.  I can focus on other things like aesthetics... or watching a movie.

Offline Navigator Black

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Re: Education
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 08:23:00 PM »
Great range of responses to think about, thanks!
@theonlywanderer - that generally describes my approach. What I end up finding is that I wait a bit too long during the "stabilized with everything they need" part and end up in the first die off before the school is in.

In regards to "ASAP" approach, doesn't that dramatically slow down early growth and lead to insufficient population to deal with that die off?

Offline theonlywanderer

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Re: Education
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 11:13:55 PM »
@Navigator Black

The original intent/challenge of vanilla Banished is to populate the map.  Due to that intent, you really can't mess around because it's a game of constant progression.   If you have two kids ready to move out, you better already have a house for them.  Anticipation and staying ahead of what you currently need is key.   If two kids are ready to hook up, without a house available, that's a lot of wasted baby making time having to build the house now.  By the time that house is built you already need another one for the next pair.  Each time that happens you're wasting baby making time.   

The key is just to maintain constant progression.   Make sure your Bannies have what they need and anticipate so they continue to have what they need so you aren't playing catch up.   It's impossible to really say.... "This is the precise time when you build a school or anything else" because each game is different how they play out.

There is no point in Banished where the town will stabilize for any long period of time.  You only get a brief period as the kids get through school and then you need to prepare for them before they become adults and have jobs ready.   As students they can also marry and have children.  So you have to have homes ready.    Basically, when I say you have time to relax, it's brief at best in comparison to the rush of the game in general.   Just don't lollygag or wait around for any longer then necessary, always have a plan.

Offline twilightbreeze

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Re: Education
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 11:15:56 PM »
If you want a really really easy method, use the Debug mod and set it to "all educated". Never worry about school again.
Got my first computer 1984 when it was all dos. Been playing computer games and internet surfing since. SOOO much has changed!! lol.

Offline smurphys7

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Re: Education
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2019, 05:51:10 AM »
In regards to "ASAP" approach, doesn't that dramatically slow down early growth and lead to insufficient population to deal with that die off?

No, if you have a die off that is due to insufficient housing at some point in time.  It is possible to steadily grow your population to whatever number you would like by building a School first.  It is much more difficult to grow that population as fast as an uneducated population could possibly grow at "max breeding speed."

Once you stop building houses your population will fluctuate between 1x and 4x your house count.  So if you build 100 houses, stop, and leave Banished running forever, your population will fluctuate between about 100 and 400 in roughly 20 year cycles.

https://i.imgur.com/xVpN2Zl.png
Education


That's an edited picture of about 200 or 300 years of 90 houses.

Offline Goblin Girl

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Re: Education
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2019, 03:19:53 PM »
In regards to "ASAP" approach, doesn't that dramatically slow down early growth and lead to insufficient population to deal with that die off?
The short answer is "no"  but the longer answer is that I'm pretty aggressive about building houses every time I have a female student graduate.  Once I have 50 or so adults, then I slow down with house building a little bit, but even then I build at least a couple of houses each year.

Offline Navigator Black

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Re: Education
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2019, 06:18:47 AM »
I've played a few games where I've built the school earlier and it really does create a smoother experience! While it's true that adult labourers trickle out more slowly, the increased production provided by educated villagers seems to offset the need for a quick labour force (to a certain extent). I do find myself moving to speed x10 a bit more frequently but that's more indicative of my own lack of patience than anything else.


 

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