Author Topic: Help for farmers  (Read 2279 times)

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Offline mariesalias

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 11:27:09 AM »
I have noticed that farmers will place crops directly in the marketplace, as well, but there is a limit to how much they will place in there/or perhaps, rather how much the vendors will let them leave in there.

Home distance for a farmer definitely affects their production efficiency. I have noticed that since this last patch (at least) that the AI for deciding where people live seems to have changed a bit. From what I have observed in my own games, it sounds like you had some jobs for laborers near to your farms (collecting, supplies to buildings), so the game reassigned some of the nearby farmers to laborers. As a consequence, some laborers who lived farther away became farmers (which is why she went to pick up the coats, it was probably on her queue before the switch). After the laborers were no longer needs close to the farms, it reassigned them back to farms (the ones close by, that is).

I think in an effort to keep laborers from getting too far from home, the game now will assign them closer to their work assignments then before. Or rather before, I don't think they took preference over farmers and such. Before, you could reliably predict where laborers would live based on their houses not being closer to any production buildings/areas then the houses needed by their workers. I played around quite a lot with population manipulation in this way and it is definitely not as reliable a prediction as before! Because I tend to pay close attention to where my people live in regards to their occupations (especially if I have uneducated people in town), I have noticed a lot of displaced workers by laborers and builders.

It is something that needs to be taken into account when planning your town now, I believe. To minimize the effects in my town, i have started to build some extra houses (not more then I need for my population though) in all 'areas' or 'zones' of my town so there is always some nearby housing available for laborers/builders. This seems especially important while building out/up a newer section of the town. In my games I have seen farmers also displaced by gatherers, hunters, foresters, and miners; they seem to be lower down on the house priority list, maybe because they spend the whole of winter working as laborers. Interestingly enough, I have also noticed woodcutters (as well as brewers, traders, vendors, and herdsmen) displaced by these workers, as well. Blacksmiths and Teachers seem less likely to be displaced though. I am still experimenting with it though so these are strictly preliminary.

 

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2014, 06:59:12 AM »
From what I have observed in my own games, it sounds like you had some jobs for laborers near to your farms (collecting, supplies to buildings), so the game reassigned some of the nearby farmers to laborers. As a consequence, some laborers who lived farther away became farmers (which is why she went to pick up the coats, it was probably on her queue before the switch). After the laborers were no longer needs close to the farms, it reassigned them back to farms (the ones close by, that is).

Looking back, I expect this is absolutely what happened.

I think in an effort to keep laborers from getting too far from home, the game now will assign them closer to their work assignments then before. Or rather before, I don't think they took preference over farmers and such. Before, you could reliably predict where laborers would live based on their houses not being closer to any production buildings/areas then the houses needed by their workers. I played around quite a lot with population manipulation in this way and it is definitely not as reliable a prediction as before! Because I tend to pay close attention to where my people live in regards to their occupations (especially if I have uneducated people in town), I have noticed a lot of displaced workers by laborers and builders.

It is something that needs to be taken into account when planning your town now, I believe. To minimize the effects in my town, i have started to build some extra houses (not more then I need for my population though) in all 'areas' or 'zones' of my town so there is always some nearby housing available for laborers/builders. This seems especially important while building out/up a newer section of the town. In my games I have seen farmers also displaced by gatherers, hunters, foresters, and miners; they seem to be lower down on the house priority list, maybe because they spend the whole of winter working as laborers. Interestingly enough, I have also noticed woodcutters (as well as brewers, traders, vendors, and herdsmen) displaced by these workers, as well. Blacksmiths and Teachers seem less likely to be displaced though. I am still experimenting with it though so these are strictly preliminary.

Definitely will be sure to have more "extra" houses in every market circle for laborers. I had already been doing this, but apparently I was not being generous enough.

Those gatherers and foresters always do seem to grab the best houses, don't they?  ;)

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2014, 09:19:54 AM »
I suspect that @mariesalias is basically correct in her analysis. I too used to build a few houses spread around not near any specific job site, but that doesn't seem to be doing it any more. It could well be the changed laborer behavior in 1.0.3. In my 500 farmers town I'm noticing that houses that I assumed would be occupied by farmers end up with builders and laborers--at least until building has died down in that sector. I'm starting to add in extra houses as well when I start a new area. I've noticed the same phenomenon with housing for miners and stone cutters where you need 5-8 houses for the workers (sometimes I only post 10 workers to a mine or quarry). People you would think would be mining or cutting stone end up building or laboring.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2014, 09:35:35 AM »
I'm still on 1.0.0 and I'm getting this a lot. Most folks are located pretty well, but there are some here and there, particularly builders but also some farmers, who have to make ungodly treks to reach their work assignments.

I'm thinking that maybe when you reach a certain pop size, the job/house assignment engine starts to get overwhelmed.

Offline Bobbi

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2014, 10:08:13 AM »
@irrelevant, I think you are right. Not sure if Luke ever intended for every corner of a large map to be filled. Not really a "city builder", more like a many small villages builder.

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2014, 08:14:19 AM »
Just thought I would post this picture to remind everyone that a late frost  in Spring can be as damaging as an early frost in Autumn. Note the 9X9 wheat and bean fields to the right. They were built several years before the picture and so the farmers were out in Early Spring to plant and lost half the crop to a late frost. The bean field to the left finished building in Spring, so the farmers did not get out planting until after the frost. The lesson I learned from this was balance early crops which are susceptible to late frosts but not so much early frosts with late crops which are susceptible to early frosts but not so much to late frosts. Actually the main learning point was play on mild climate, not harsh.  ;D


Offline salamander

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2014, 08:33:06 AM »
@rkelly17 -- That's a very good point.  In fact, it seems that late frosts early in the growing season could potentially be more harmful than early frosts late in the growing season.  It depends on whether farmers will re-plant in the spring season (early, middle or late) to replace plants lost to frost.  Has anyone seen anything to suggest that farmers will do this in the spring?

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2014, 08:46:52 AM »
Just thought I would post this picture to remind everyone that a late frost  in Spring can be as damaging as an early frost in Autumn. Note the 9X9 wheat and bean fields to the right. They were built several years before the picture and so the farmers were out in Early Spring to plant and lost half the crop to a late frost. The bean field to the left finished building in Spring, so the farmers did not get out planting until after the frost. The lesson I learned from this was balance early crops which are susceptible to late frosts but not so much early frosts with late crops which are susceptible to early frosts but not so much to late frosts. Actually the main learning point was play on mild climate, not harsh.  ;D

So has anyone actually done any research on growing seasons for the various crops? I have some impressions, eg. beans start early and finish fast, pumpkins start later and finish slow, etc, but I haven't seen anything out there anyplace that attempts to quantify.

Offline mariesalias

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2014, 04:11:47 PM »
So has anyone actually done any research on growing seasons for the various crops? I have some impressions, eg. beans start early and finish fast, pumpkins start later and finish slow, etc, but I haven't seen anything out there anyplace that attempts to quantify.

There is definitely a list somewhere as I have seen it posted up on the SR forum before.

Offline irrelevant

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2014, 05:33:58 PM »

Offline rkelly17

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2014, 05:31:52 AM »
@rkelly17 -- That's a very good point.  In fact, it seems that late frosts early in the growing season could potentially be more harmful than early frosts late in the growing season.  It depends on whether farmers will re-plant in the spring season (early, middle or late) to replace plants lost to frost.  Has anyone seen anything to suggest that farmers will do this in the spring?

I have never seen farmers go out and replant, but I wouldn't want to say they never do. When I've played on harsh climate (only when I absolutely have to) I've seen a lot of half fields in Summer.

I did find this. Accurate? Who can say....

http://www.reddit.com/r/Banished/comments/1z9cms/did_some_science_regarding_farms/

The reddit post is interesting. I wish the poster had said which climate s/he used.


« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 05:36:08 AM by rkelly17 »

Offline Kaldir

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2014, 02:25:03 PM »
If that reddit link (or any other) is found to be accurate, it might be useful to repeat the information here in the tips&tricks section, with credits to the original. That way, the information will still be available if the link dies.

Since we clearly have some researchers here, this forum might as well become the complete information source for Banished. :D

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Help for farmers
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2014, 06:08:25 PM »
btw @rkelly17 i really love what you were doing with these 18x18. it reminds me a month ago i was trying to do .... some ranchs. 1 or 2 houses, a barn, a crop or an orchard, or a pasture. it is there after to have spent a night or 2, i decided to try to push 'fences' as suggestions :)

i like alot the idea.
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