I have decided to give @RedKetchups Creamery-mod a real chance to prove what it is worth. I will start a new settlement with that mod and the honey-mod, no others.
I was a bit "dazed and confused"* as I saw the entries to that death-valley-challenge. Couldn´t believe that my settlement had about 3 times as many people as the largest of the original. Maybe some of you are interested to see how I build a settlement, if I am trying to reach a high population fast.
So I will combine these two things and make a blog.
So I have started a town- medium map- hard start - disasters ? (probably on), fair climate. I will supply the people with a combination of trade and food production-plants, I will buy building materials. And as a say keep a special eye on the milk products (and honey), test and compare them to other food to feed my population and the profitability as a trading goods.
Oh i forgot; a small quiz;
* do any of you not quite so young players know that Quote? ( I can make a hint in the right direction when I say that I stopped my waterfront settlement "in the summer of 69")
have my latest build + boat fix ?
cause in latest build, the number should be much closer , i mean the total value should be much closer despite a 133% for yogurt gain versus a 100% gain for cheese and cream
I will change it right away
yeah take that occasion to pass in mode creamery+ standalone boat fix....
without crash.
Quote from: Nilla on September 13, 2014, 03:23:11 PM
I have decided to give @RedKetchups Creamery-mod a real chance to prove what it is worth. I will start a new settlement with that mod and the honey-mod, no others.
I was a bit "dazed and confused"* as I saw the entries to that death-valley-challenge. Couldn´t believe that my settlement had about 3 times as many people as the largest of the original. Maybe some of you are interested to see how I build a settlement, if I am trying to reach a high population fast.
So I will combine these two things and make a blog.
So I have started a town- medium map- hard start - disasters ? (probably on), fair climate. I will supply the people with a combination of trade and food production-plants, I will buy building materials. And as a say keep a special eye on the milk products (and honey), test and compare them to other food to feed my population and the profitability as a trading goods.
Oh i forgot; a small quiz;
* do any of you not quite so young players know that Quote? ( I can make a hint in the right direction when I say that I stopped my waterfront settlement "in the summer of 69")
@Nilla Wanted a woman, never bargained for you (didn't need the hint) ;)
Quote
@Nilla Wanted a woman, never bargained for you (didn't need the hint)
love that answer :D
do you think the others know what we talk about? Or do they think it is some kind of insult?
You know; lots of people talking, few of them know. ;)
me sorry i have no idea of what you are talking both :P
Quoteme sorry i have no idea of what you are talking both
Who said a quiz should be easy?.......
How old are you, suppose you are too young ;)
Anyhow:
Yesterday evening I started my latest "project" didn´t get very far and as always I was too tired to write immediately as I stopped. Maybe I have told you before that I am an old sick lady, having a lot of time to play, because I cannot do so many other things anymore. I also use Banished as a kind of sleeping-pill! Oh no, it is not that I think it is boring, not at all! But if I turn down the speed, just look a bit here and a bit there (something is always going on) it is very soothing and maybe (especially if I combine it with a small glass of red wine) I can fall asleep and sleep all night without all too much pain.
From the start I had decided to make a mixture of farming, animals, forest-plants and trade, but I have changed my mind. In order to give the milk and milk products a real test, I will have no farming and no ale production.
First picture;
I started as I always do (not 2 hrs planning, couldn´t do that) I want to start, right away!
I built in this order:
stockpile
gatherers hut - 2 categories of food from the start and high productivity
woodcutter
5 houses - it is 4 families from the start but if some of the children becomes adult before the houses are finished, he/she might move into one house and I havn´t found a way to get him/her move back to the parents, so if you want housing for all, you have to build one (or sometimes even 2) more houses.
forester
hunter
blacksmith*
tailor
barn - at the beginning the wagon is big enough to store the food
school*
as you might see, I have also planned (!) a honey collector
*How soon I build a blacksmith and a school depends on how old the children are in the starting families. If there are many children getting adult soon, needing tools - I build the blacksmith directly after the houses. If there are several children 2-6 years old, I build a school soon (sometimes even before I build the houses). In this case there was only 2, one boy getting adult immediately, occupying the second house and one girl about 5 years old. I have decided she will stay uneducated too.
Second picture:
I have stopped the game to do some planning!!!!! but only trading ports and bridges in the center of the map.
Third picture:
First trading port under construction. I need a lot of building materials at the moment, that is the reason there is no beekeeper and only 1 forester working (tailor and blacksmith always just work for a short time, to make as much as needed for the present). I always keep an eye on the students, if a girl is getting 15-16 I build a house for her to move into. In this case it is a bit a problem, because all students are girls. But there are some boys 8 and 9 years old. So they have to take their responsibility for the survival and expansion of the settlement early!
Forth picture:
Look what the first general goods tradesman brings! I usually start the trade selling those products shown.
I have also built a second "forest node" right outside the picture. I seldom fill the forest plants full, the productivity of the third and fourth worker is bad. I prefer building more plants. I also have some fast reserves, if food is getting low, I can increase the number of gatherers, hunters (same as fishers) temporarily.
That was about as far as I came. No milk, no milk products yet. The animal-trades-man hasn´t visited me yet. But there is no hurry and I will build more tonight.
Quote from: Nilla on September 14, 2014, 05:05:56 AM
Quoteme sorry i have no idea of what you are talking both
Who said a quiz should be easy?.......
How old are you, suppose you are too young ;)
oh ya , a Young man of...... 50 years old LOL, i will have 51 soon
december 1963
but keep in mind, i never watched a movie in English :P if your reference is a Movie Quote. it can be very far totally different in french.
yeah, as I said too young........
and besides........
it is no movie (although i think there was a movie with that name once)
First I will start with an explanation specially for you
@RedKetchup In the late 1960-ies and the 1970 there was a band named Led Zeppelin (one of my favorites) you have probably heard of them. One of their songs starts this way:
Bin dazed and confused for so long it´s not true
wanted a woman never bargained for you
lots of people talking few of them know
soul of a woman was created below
(originally it was recorded by another interesting band of the 1960-ies; the Yarbirds, or maybe they had stolen it too, copyright wasn´t very well known back than)
Back to Banished
I went on with my milk and honey- settlement, and now I really have milk! I build as many pastures as I can and I also buy milk and berries. As I stopped in the year of 24 I had 10 creameries and 2 apiaries
I have made some notes and have also calculated a bit. These are my observations and conclusions so far:
apiary:opposite to other production-sites with more than 1 worker, the production is proportional to the number of workers.
workers production average production/worker
max min average
1 560 420 480 480
2 1376 880 1063 530
3 1888 1192 1588 530
This is a good productivity for a worker in a plant that needs little space, but it is in the same range as other good located food-production-plants. So I find it acceptable. By the way; what category off food is honey? Read it somewhere but I have forgot.
creamery:The creamery is about the same as the apiary; 2 workers produce about the double amount of each product as 1. So I havn´t noticed much for 1 worker. All numbers are for 2 workers.
Product max min average
Cheese 256 171 220
Cream 442 190 310
Yogurt 1260 744 880
Notes: I have expanded the milk production sites quite fast. When you start a new plant, one worker leaves an old plant to work in the new one, so temporarily there have been only 1 worker in some of the plants. I produce milk but also buy some (berries the same). There wasn´t any milk in the nearest barn/market all the time, and berries were missed even more. I have continued to increased the amount of stored milk and berries. So I expect that the average will rise, getting more close to the max-value. I also accept nomads, so there might also be some uneducated workforce, but that is a normal case, so I will not do any micromanagement on this subject.
I f I had understood your latest input- values right :
(24 milk -> 8 cheese or 12 cream, 12 milk+12 berries ->18 yogurt)
This is the trade profit of each plant at the moment in my settlement, using my average productivity-values and the trade-value of the input-products:
product trade value input profit
Cheese 1320 660 milk 660
Cream 1240 620 milk 620
Yogurt 2640 587 milk 1467
587 berries
to compare with:
Ale 3200 1200 apples 2000 (counted on a low/medium productivity of 400 ale /year)
Wood(1) 2680 335 logs 2010 (general goods tradesman) (counted on the present values of this game, 4693 wood for 7 woodcutters)
Wood (2) 2010 335 logs 1340 (food tradesman)
We must not forget that the milk products need 2 workers for these results, ale and wood only one.
Conclusions: Productivity of honey and yogurt is good, cream and cheese quite low.
Yogurt is a good trading product. Cheese and cream not so. I doubt that it is possible to build a bigger trading economy on these two products (maybe in combination with the products from the pastures).
An industrial area with a lot of creameries looks much nicer, with the brick roofs and the yards, as an industrial area dominated by breweries. The size is not so easy to combine with other buildings but it works.
Observations to come:As the amount of stored milk and berries are getting higher (I hope) I will go on and look at the productivity of the plants. I will go on with a combination of the 3 products as long as I can. Probably I will be forced to produce mainly yogurt to survive, but we will see.
If I mostly produce yogurt, a low- price-product, a lot of it must be transported to the trading ports. Is it possible for the traders to transport as much as needed into the trading ports, as the settlement grows bigger?
Now I also have enough pastures to make a more accurate analysis of those.
That was a lot of text ......phu...... hope it is understandable.
At the end some pictures.
it has been willingly that yogurt had a more bit output (money-wise) than the others 133% vs 100%. but ya, more come and go.
thanks you for your number, looks like very acceptable.
btw i know led zeppelin, but i didnt listen alot, i was more pink Floyd fan ^^. and also back in this, i didnt know English at all back in time :)
Quote from: Nilla on September 15, 2014, 07:06:04 AM
In the late 1960-ies and the 1970 there was a band named Led Zeppelin (one of my favorites) you have probably heard of them. One of their songs starts this way:
. . . .
(originally it was recorded by another interesting band of the 1960-ies; the Yarbirds, or maybe they had stolen it too, copyright wasn´t very well known back than)
I am feeling so old. :'(
Quote from: rkelly17 on September 15, 2014, 10:00:16 AM
I am feeling so old. :'(
Do you feel old because you remember the song or........... worse............. while you once knew it and have forgotten? ;)
to Banished;
Just wanted to make a small update. I am now in the year of 31. Everything is running real smooth. Here are the new production rates from the milk products, full storages;
Product max min average
Cheese 328 252 290
Cream 420 364 397
Yogurt 1482 942 1208
This is the trade profit of each plant at the moment in my settlement, using my average productivity-values and the trade-value of the input-products:
product trade value input profit
Cheese 1740 870 milk 870
Cream 1588 796 milk 796
Yogurt 3624 805 milk 2013
805 berries
This makes one yogurt plant almost as profitable as ale or wood (remember; here 2 workers). That is also my feeling while playing.
I now have 6 trading ports with 15 traders in each. I fill it with 5000 yogurt, 3000 meat 1500 wood and smaller amounts of other stuff (cheese, cream, mushrooms, woolcoats, herbs, eggs) No logistic problems yet.
One minor disadvantage compared to ale; the resource-trades-man doesn´t buy any milk products (any food at all). I want no mines and no quarries, so I buy a lot of building materials. So it isn´t possible to rely on the milk products only. But in this case it is no real problem. I also sell wood and clothing.
Pictures 1-2
Have you seen this before? I haven´t, and twice at the same time. Thought the age difference would never be more than 20 years.
Maybe it is interesting to know why I look into the houses and noticed this. As you may see there are 45 homeless persons - off cause; nomads just arrived. When i want to expand fast, I always prepare for nomads, mostly having too many houses. That means some couples separate. This is no problem, the women still become babies. When the nomads arrive, I force the couples together again and the nomads will have roofs over their heads, real fast.
Pictures 3-4
New and old industrial area. Looks better than with breweries, doesn´t it?
Quote from: Nilla on September 15, 2014, 02:52:13 PM
Pictures 1-2
Have you seen this before? I haven´t, and twice at the same time. Thought the age difference would never be more than 20 years.
maybe they had alot of money p
Quote from: Nilla on September 15, 2014, 02:52:13 PM
Looks better than with breweries, doesn´t it?
It does, it's very attractive.
Quote from: irrelevant on September 15, 2014, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Nilla on September 15, 2014, 02:52:13 PM
Looks better than with breweries, doesn´t it?
It does, it's very attractive.
when i do something... i do it good, or i dont do it ^^
/joking
40 years have passed.
Supply of food is good. Yogurt works as a main-trading-product. Together with meat, I have enough in my 11 trading ports, to buy everything, the food-trades-man brings (30 000 food). The logistic works so far (60 creameries, mostly yogurt). Productivity about the same as the last time I wrote.
The only problem so far is the supply of logs and stone. This slows the growth of the town. I have sent away the two last "batches" of nomads. If I havn´t enough building materials to build houses for all my young adults, there is no room for nomads. There isn´t even enough logs for my woodcutters.
The reasons are interesting.
I have some foresters, but far from enough to supply the woodcutters. In other games where I have traded with wood and ale, I order logs, apples and stones from the general-goods-tradesman and logs, stones, iron and steeltools from the resource-trades-man. As we all know; the general-goods-trades-man delivers the most, mostly 1600-2400 logs and almost as much stone, by this high population.
Here I order milk, berries, logs and stones. With 4 different products, there are often 400-800 logs, sometimes no logs at all and only seldom 1600, never more. This is not enough. The resource-trades-man only takes wood and coats, of the things I sell (he also takes ale but no food). This means that I cannot always buy all he delivers. This is the biggest difference between ale and milk-products as main trading product.
In order to solve this problem, I have taken away milk from the order-list of most general goods-tradesmen. The store is slowly getting smaller, but there is still plenty of milk. This is a fragile balance, and we will see how it works out.
I have started to look at the milk/meat-production. I think the cattle has become a bit too "overpowered". It is a funny thing; I wanted to suggest that you divide the milk-meat-production into 2 different kind of animals; cows- milk and little meat and leather and cattle - no milk and much meat and leather, same as some of the suggestions in another thread.
alright, i ll see what i can do after i finished my Decorative Items Pack. When real Beta will be launch ... i ll check back to add a new animal : Cows. and make only drop milk from Cows and no beef no leather when the beast will be slaughtered. but also, i feared that cattle will going back to ... oblivion :(
so i still to think about it.
That´s it! I made the 50 years I wanted to do. :)
The test of the mods was successful, the fast expansion not so, couldn´t buy as much building materials as I wanted. But I could build new houses all the time, the population-graph looks nice and over 2600 people in 50 years is not so bad.
I like the new buildings and the new products, but for different reasons. As I have said before, all looking nice, no technical problems. made a lot of fun!!!!! :)
Honey :)
The balancing is OK, the productivity is still maybe a bit high, considering the needed space, but still reasonable.
Yogurt :) :)
The yogurt is overpowered - yes. Due to the high productivity of the creamery making yogurt (opposite to cheese and cream), is the trade profit almost as high as from ale and wood. I think this was not really intended. But as long as ale and wood are the way they are, this mod opens a new possibility to support a larger settlement from trade. Harder than ale, yes, but possible and much more interesting, because of the problems I described in my latest blog.
Cheese and cream :-\ :)
"Cosmetic products" have no real use in the game, others than the fun of making them and having many different products to offer the population. As trade-products, the productivity is too low to make them really useful. I sometimes make ale from wheat, just for the fun of making German weissbier. Economic insane but fun, the same with cheese and cream.
It would be different if you
@RedKetchup (or someone else) could find some special meaning for these complex products, making people more happy, more healthy, more efficient, faster, more productive.............perhaps something like education; if they have these products (meat could also be counted to that category) maybe they could make not 4 wood from one log but 5 and so on ....... or maybe they don´t have to go home so often to eat .........
Milk :) :-\
If you produce milk and meat for your population to eat/drink, it is well balanced. If you also consider the trade value, it is quite high. One cows produces 80 milk each year. In a pasture of 20*10 with 10 cows that´s 800 food. It will also produce about 600 meat and 18 leather as average each year. This means a trading value of about 2800 for one worker. I have seen no difference at all between one and two herdsmen.
Suggestion: Two kind of animals; Cows 80 or maybe 100 milk each cow each year and perhaps 200 meat and 9 leather (1/3 of the cattle) the number of herdsmen could maybe also have some influence, and cattle as the original.
alright thanks you for your recommendations :) very appreciated :)
i ll keep that in mind when i ll do the 1.4 version of my Creamery Dairy Products :)
*************
you just finished your town just in time .... to download the 1.1 Decorative Items Pack and play with it :)
Just waited for it :)