If you have a town that just isn't getting nomads, try putting a bridge over the river. They spawn at the map edge (usually north? that's what I see) and they just may be unable to pathfind their way to your town hall.
Do you ever feel bad about denying nomads? Sometimes I do. Weird! ::)
I feel bad about turning nomads away, too. In the early game, when the numbers are more manageable, I almost always take them in, and I try to build hospitals as soon as I can just so I can let nomads in and deal with disease outbreaks. But I seem to be population management challenged, so later on I have no choice but to send them packing when their numbers get too high.
I just turned away 8 of them. Poor wretched things. Would it really have been such a hardship to take them in? No, unless they brought smallpox, like that other time ;)
You're cold ... soooo cold. ;D
I lol'd ;D
edit: I'm such a sap; I went back to my last save for a do-over; I took them ;D
I used to take them in, but then I realized that they lowered the education level of my colony by a substantial amount. They turned self-sustaining colonies into marginal operations, and not by simply adding mouths to feed.
@slink yes, I generally agree with that, but in the early stages, they can provide much-needed labor. I was amazed at what taking in just 8 of them allowed me to build the following year.
I wonder if it's possible to somehow nomad-proof a town beyond just having excess production to absorb the lowered education effect. Maybe something like having boarding houses away from production centers so the nomads are more likely to become laborers. The uneducated nomad adults would probably eventually move into vacant houses near production buildings, but it might give time for at least some of the nomad kids to go to school.
@salamander I've done that in a couple of earlier towns. It works okay, but it's really only worth it if you are planning on taking in a large number of nomads.
If you are just taking in a few, you can easily manage where they end up living by keeping in mind that when you have homeless bannies, they will get the next available housing. Just figure out where you want them to be, and plop down your next houses there. The nomads will get those houses. Keep 'em all together, or spread 'em around. Just keep them far away from your critical production (tools, clothes, firewood). The ideal location is someplace where they will most likely become laborers. Just remember to consider where they live when you are siting future production buildings.
Yup ... I can see that what I mentioned might only be a temporary fix, and maybe not worth the effort, since as your town expands nomad housing on the edge suddenly becomes more central, and you'd always be tearing down boarding houses to move them further out. With normal houses built on the outskirts ( what you mentioned), if you're good at planning, they could become part of the normal housing needed as you get bigger. Maybe by the time you expand out that far the education hit would be over.
There's definitely more to this game than meets the eye, if you're just willing to think about future consequences of your decisions.
When I accept nomads I usually set up a special district for them. I put down a bunch of buildings (depending on their number): market, houses, fields...
I don't build houses anywhere else until they all have a roof in this new district. This way they all move there and don't impact the production in other districts.
Of course the production of this new district will be low during a few years, but at least they will be self-sufficient (food wise) and they will not take over dead people's jobs in other districts.
PS: reading again my post, sounds very racist: "darn non-educated migrants, they steal our kids jobs!" This game is going to turn me into a redneck :o.
Quote from: Coug_r on October 23, 2014, 03:43:15 AM
PS: reading again my post, sounds very racist: "darn non-educated migrants, they steal our kids jobs!" This game is going to turn me into a redneck :o.
indeed it seems ... ::) :)
Quote from: Coug_r on October 23, 2014, 03:43:15 AM
PS: reading again my post, sounds very racist: "darn non-educated migrants, they steal our kids jobs!" This game is going to turn me into a redneck :o.
Don't forget the diseases that they bring ... ;)
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 07:20:29 AM
Quote from: Coug_r on October 23, 2014, 03:43:15 AM
PS: reading again my post, sounds very racist: "darn non-educated migrants, they steal our kids jobs!" This game is going to turn me into a redneck :o.
Don't forget the diseases that they bring ... ;)
This thread
has started to sound like certain well-known politicians in the US and Canada. ;D
I have to admit that in Banished I only admit nomads the first couple of times they come when I desperately need workers by any means possible. Then I get rabidly anti-immigrant. And this from someone who used to walk in vigils in support of undocumented workers! :-[
As opposed to unionized workers? That is a hard call. ???
Quote from: rkelly17 on October 23, 2014, 08:24:45 AM
Then I get rabidly anti-immigrant. And this from someone who used to walk in vigils in support of undocumented workers! :-[
Hehe, who said that video games are not violent? They turn us into retrograde xenophobics!
In the other hand, any time I see a new child being born, I think that thanks to my strict immigration policy they will benefit from a long healthy life of planting cabbages or mining coal. Life is great in our banished villages!
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 08:58:50 AM
As opposed to unionized workers? That is a hard call. ???
This is actually a great idea for a mod. "A villager created a union, 215 villagers followed him and are now on strike. They will not get back to work until they all receive a new coat and 2 pints of ale".
That would drive me crazy...
Quote from: Coug_r on October 23, 2014, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 08:58:50 AM
As opposed to unionized workers? That is a hard call. ???
This is actually a great idea for a mod. "A villager created a union, 215 villagers followed him and are now on strike. They will not get back to work until they all receive a new coat and 2 pints of ale".
That would drive me crazy...
It drove me crazy in some other game. Some rollercoaster or other amusement park game, where every so often you had to do union negotiations. This "negotiation" consisted of a small action game where you had to click versus a timer controlling a hand receding to the distance from yours, to the sound of a clock ticking as I recall. It was closest to the stupidest game mechanic I ever encountered and I stopped playing the stupid game. >:( >:( >:(
Anyway, in Banished I would let 216 of them starve to death, after which, if there were any left alive, I would rebuild. While they were starving, I would hunt down the code and kill it. ;D
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 08:58:50 AM
As opposed to unionized workers? That is a hard call. ???
This was in LA in the 70s and 80s. The unions were walking, too, so one didn't have to choose. If you ever saw the movie "El Norte" that would give the context. Parts of it were filmed not far from where we lived in the early 70s.
In the 70s and 80s I was finishing graduate school and starting my life as a professional. I lived on the East Coast. I was pretty much oblivious to the West Coast.
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:18:02 AM
In the 70s and 80s I was finishing graduate school and starting my life as a professional. I lived on the East Coast. I was pretty much oblivious to the West Coast.
You lived where? You mean there is an
East Coast?
;D
I'm as arrogant as only a second generation native Californian can be.
Quote from: rkelly17 on October 23, 2014, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:18:02 AM
In the 70s and 80s I was finishing graduate school and starting my life as a professional. I lived on the East Coast. I was pretty much oblivious to the West Coast.
You lived where? You mean there is an East Coast?
;D
I'm as arrogant as only a second generation native Californian can be.
I thought the West Coast had fallen into the ocean. *sulky look* So sue me, they promised us that in the late 60s. ;D
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:22:41 AM
Quote from: rkelly17 on October 23, 2014, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:18:02 AM
In the 70s and 80s I was finishing graduate school and starting my life as a professional. I lived on the East Coast. I was pretty much oblivious to the West Coast.
You lived where? You mean there is an East Coast?
;D
I'm as arrogant as only a second generation native Californian can be.
I thought the West Coast had fallen into the ocean. *sulky look* So sue me, they promised us that in the late 60s. ;D
Actually the plan was that The Big One would hit, a giant crack would develop along the Sierra Nevadas and the rest of the country would fall off into the Atlantic leaving California alone. Now that would have been something to see!
Of course, California did the next best thing--foisted Reagan off on everybody else so we could get a new governor.
;D
Quote from: rkelly17 on October 23, 2014, 09:25:56 AM
Of course, California did the next best thing--foisted Reagan off on everybody else so we could get a new governor.
;D
Hurrah, the best president of my adult lifetime, to date! ;D
Was that when you got Arnold Schwartzeneggar for governor?
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:40:44 AM
Quote from: rkelly17 on October 23, 2014, 09:25:56 AM
Of course, California did the next best thing--foisted Reagan off on everybody else so we could get a new governor.
;D
Hurrah, the best president of my adult lifetime, to date! ;D
Was that when you got Arnold Schwartzeneggar for governor?
No, he came later long after we left for Canada (which was just after R got re-elected :( ). I thought S was great because I got to make fun of all my relatives--right up until Toronto elected Rob Ford. :'(
The will of the majority is something to behold, is it not? ;D
Quote from: slink on October 23, 2014, 09:46:05 AM
The will of the majority is something to behold, is it not? ;D
One of the reasons I'm a flat-out elitist! ;D
;) ;D
Quote from: irrelevant on October 20, 2014, 06:15:17 PM
If you have a town that just isn't getting nomads, try putting a bridge over the river. They spawn at the map edge (usually north? that's what I see) and they just may be unable to pathfind their way to your town hall.
I have a town that desperately needs nomads and has a town hall, trading posts and bridges across the river. For a long time I only had
@slink's specialized markets and elfecutioner's general store and was wondering whether these filled the prerequisites for nomads. I am sure I've had towns with only these markets and had nomads. Anyway, I built a vanilla market to see what happened and still no nomads. Hmmm.
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 06, 2014, 08:23:18 AM
I have a town that desperately needs nomads and has a town hall, trading posts and bridges across the river. For a long time I only had @slink's specialized markets and elfecutioner's general store and was wondering whether these filled the prerequisites for nomads. I am sure I've had towns with only these markets and had nomads. Anyway, I built a vanilla market to see what happened and still no nomads. Hmmm.
According to Elfectutioner and various testers, they do not meet the requirement - the market has some sort of special "flag" that the game looks for along with the TP / TH. However, you don't need to fully build it - in my last town I had the TP & Town Hall but was using the same mods you are, and I placed / paused a vanilla market out in the middle of nowhere and started getting nomads a few years later.
That has to be something in the executable that is tied to the name of the standard market. The code for the smaller markets is the exact same code as that for the standard market, except for the contents allowed and the graphics used.
Of course, right after I posted I fired up the town and nomads appeared almost instantly. As I work on new towns I'm going to test further and see what happens. I have a recollection of attracting nomads with only
@slink's specialized markets, but it is very hazy and I have moved on in mod versions and can't remember exactly which town it was.
Unless the coding has changed/updated in the last few months, it should be possible to get Nomads without having the Marketplace. I have gotten them in the past with only the Town Hall. Maybe it was a bug though? It does seem to happen more often with the Marketplace and Trading Posts as well though.
that really must have been a bug, since its actually all 3 buildings. (town hall, trading port and market)
the market might be in a state of being build (pause eventhough that might be a bug as well) I guess,
because I had them show up at that time (with a finished town hall and trading port)
but without a default market nomads won't show up at all, at least that is my experience.
Keeping in mind I have not really had time to play for the last 2 months or so, before that I was able to get nomads with only a town hall and with a town hall and a trading post, more then once. Without a marketplace being placed down at all; early on I did not build marketplaces, so I never placed them. I have also had nomads show up without the trading post (but with a town hall and marketplace). So I don't think all three are really required. Or weren't. I have never had them show up without a town hall being built though.
I will say that it took a long time for them to show up, not the normal amount of time that you would expect with all three buildings. It is quite possible that it was a bug in the earlier versions, or the code wasn't as tight as it was meant to be. I'm working on a Mountain Men/One With Nature/Isolationist challenge currently, so I'll try building a marketplace and town hall earlier, rather then later, and see if any nomads eventually show up. I won't really have much gaming time though until after the holidays, so it'll be awhile before I see any results, one way or the other.
Quote from: chillzz on November 12, 2014, 07:55:39 PM
that really must have been a bug, since its actually all 3 buildings. (town hall, trading port and market)
Over the months of playing Banished many of us have discovered that things said in early developer's blogs represent preferred plans, not what actually ended up in the game.
That being said, now that I'm using
@JamieIdle2.0's specialized trading posts the nomads are slow to arrive. I've reached that place in town history when the graduated workers are not coming fast enough and we need new blood. Not saying that they won't come, but they are taking their own sweet time about it if they are coming. Is there anyway of knowing whether the vanilla market and TP have something in them that is part of the, for want of a better term, "Nomad Attraction System"? Do we have any evidence of the town hall on its own activating the NAS? What has been the documented experience with the modded TPs and markets and the NAS? Inquiring minds want to know.
PS: In this town I have the town hall, one vanilla market (along with market buildings by
@slink and elfecutioner/
@RedKetchup) and no vanilla TPs (all by
@JamieIdle2.0).
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 14, 2014, 07:50:47 AMWhat has been the documented experience with the modded TPs and markets and the NAS? Inquiring minds want to know.
I do know that Elfecutioner has stated that his small vendor buildings, though based on market code, do not trigger nomads if the TP and TH are present. I do not know what his testing process was, but I assume it's based on a lot of watching and waiting plus all the people using his mod reporting the same thing. I can confirm that with TP, TH and Elfecutioner and Slink's various market-type buildings, I've seen no nomads across several towns now. They've only shown up when I've placed a vanilla market. (Some of these towns ran 40-50 years, with the TP and TH being build by year 10 or 12, so I consider that enough time to determine they weren't going to show up.)
As for modded TPs, I have no observations of my own because I've only used modded TPs in one town and it had no vanilla market. Hopefully now that Jamie's mod has been out for a little while, more people can report on that.
@Mahnogard, that reflects my experience, but I wasn't documenting it and didn't want to speak without concrete evidence. I'd say 40-50 years is definitive. Maybe
@slink could comment from the modder's perspective.
Is the NAS part of the inaccessible code?
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 14, 2014, 07:50:47 AM
Over the months of playing Banished many of us have discovered that things said in early developer's blogs represent preferred plans, not what actually ended up in the game.
it wasn't something I've read on the developers blog, but noticed myself in playing many hours since march.
@rkelly17 oopsie, unintended side-effect of specialized trading ports and markets. Since this Specific buildings are required if you don't build one each of the Vanilla structures you wont get any nomads. This is controlled in the Townhall.rsc, which mine mod and most likely similar specialized mods do not touch.
I can build a quick mod that removes the market and trading port requirements all together. Or you can simiply build a vanilla market and trading post. My Specialized Trading Ports mod doesn't remove the vanilla ones after all.
thats the code that is setting the prerequest in order to get nomads:
ImmigrationDescription immigration
{
ComponentDescription _nomad = "Template/Nomad.rsc";
int _requiredPopulation = 8;
ComponentDescription _requiredStructures
[
"Template/Market.rsc"
"Template/TradingPost.rsc"
]
as you can see you need a real Template/Market.rsc building and a real Template/TradingPost.rsc building. no substitutes allowed.
any other building acting like a market or acting like a trading post arent allowed.
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=655.0
Created a new mod topic to create a fix/workaround and maybe play with the numbers.
Destroy your Townhall. Save then add this mod and it should work with save games without issue. Though it will work best as always with a new game.
This mod just removes the market and trading post requirements.
Fantastic detective work,
@JamieIdle2.0. :)
Quote from: chillzz on November 14, 2014, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 14, 2014, 07:50:47 AM
Over the months of playing Banished many of us have discovered that things said in early developer's blogs represent preferred plans, not what actually ended up in the game.
it wasn't something I've read on the developers blog, but noticed myself in playing many hours since march.
That's a horse of a different color. Sorry for doubting.
Quote from: JamieIdle2.0 on November 14, 2014, 09:44:24 AM
Destroy your Townhall. Save then add this mod and it should work with save games without issue. Though it will work best as always with a new game.
This mod just removes the market and trading post requirements.
Thanks,
@JamieIdle2.0. I'll give it a go.