WIP: Natural Diversity

[Bartender]

I'm afraid it's not so much the amount of polygons per model, but rather the sheer amount of models that are being spawned. With the addition of reeds and water rocks the whole map basically gets filled with resources, instead of only the land parts. On my 3 year old mid-priced laptop I can still run a large map with no problems with NatDiv alone, but other systems may run into trouble more easily. Combining NatDiv with other mods will only make bottlenecks appear more quickly ofcourse.

I've done as much optimization as possible without losing any visual quality, so there's not much to be gained in the meshes themselves. I do think it would be possible to reduce the amount of spawning though without harming the feel of the mod, especially on the water rocks, since those are only there for aesthetic value.

"We decided not to add a specialized building for the branches gathering because we really want it to be a conscious choice to harvest them in specific moments. The idea is that if you want a worker dedicated to making firewood, it's much more efficient to have them cut wood in a lumber yard. The branches are just an occasional extra if you need them, but shouldn't spawn enough to really provide a stable source of firewood on their own."

Ok, I agree this is more realistic, but then I suggest you to remove berry bushes from branch collecting tool. I mean, I want to gather branches all the time, but I don't want to cut bushes, so I'm unable to send laborers to gather braches from a big area - they will cut bushes. And I have to select each branch separately. With the fact that they disappear quickly, this is little boring.

I agree that this may be better. I added it to the list . As for the removal of blueberry bushes by foresters and reapers; we knew that this was going to occur ofcourse. It makes it even more important to carefully place them .

[embx61]

I agree @Bartender

You can always spawn the visual stuff less first and see if it improves for some players.

Maybe instead of spawning the rocks, keep the models but make them in a Deco Ghosting Addon. The same I did with the Irrigation.
If players then spam the map with them at least they have control themselves over it.

If still too slow then maybe spawn some meshes less, start with 5% to 10% spawn decrease on a map and just add a little bit (5 to 10%) in the yield to compensate.

But indeed your and Despo's ND Mod is not the only Mod what spawn all kind of trees, bushes, crops around and if players load them all the FPS will go down.
We have now:

CC- (Not sure if they spawn stuff too) ND, Pine set, New Flora, Garden walls, Not sure if Discrepancy, Kid, and Tom have Mods what spawns stuff too
Add to that all the crops and Orchards and it is bingo.

Luke's engine is not up to par to load all those poly's on a map. I am confident that if Banished was created using for example the cry engine those issues would be way less or not existing at all.
I see meshes for games being sold with 300K poly's so I know it is possible in the right engine to work with such high poly meshes. They use of course LOD but still.

But we have to work with what we got and most players will realize that beauty comes with a prize

EDIT: I called Despo Deco 

[elemental]

It's a tricky balance problem. Mods do impact on game performance - there is no way around that - and tricks like the no smoke mod and keeping poly count down can only get you so far.

I guess one trick that might help on a large map is clearing some of the forest. Clearing resources with the debug instant build tool instantly wipes the area clean. That should help lighten the load on processor/memory etc.

[QueryEverything]

Hi all
@Bartender I wrote over on BL that I was loving this update, that the buildings (thanks so much @despo_20 ) are beautiful, and the mod overall is excellent.
@tanypredator I haven't had any problems running your mod with this one, I'll attach my load order for you to look at, you can omit Necora's mods if you don't use his, but keep the same order, and see if that helps you out.

I will state - all feedback needs to be clear - I run over 200 mods - I do have a 2nd copy of Banished now for Steam which I am currently setting up as a Beta only zone, so I can run tests without disrupting regular gameplay.  I used my existing setup with the new NatDiv, so things may be different than someone else's experience.

As for the map lag, on small - I don't have any problems, not initially, but then I have my settings just taken a step lower than what my system can handle (I played minecraft & wurm, and a lot of older games, so for me I'm not needing to ramp up a game as much as I need to, to enjoy it ), the map was fast, I was able to zoom around, harvest, visit, place, etc without having to pause the map - then as things progressed and I added more spawning items (forestry huts etc), then I started to slow - but, I run a lot of mods - so it's not unusual.

I initially felt that the food production with grasses/salads was a bit on the slow side, that I just wasn't getting enough food production up and running for the workers families, then, I moved the buildings closer together and the storage next to each other, and that worked much, much better.

--- I did notice though when a fishing spot stopped working, it was almost instant the food drop, the first time it happened I couldn't find what I was looking for, then I remembered, they have a 'lifespan', and I was able to go and demolish, then rebuild - thank you, I really liked that.  I don't always like the idea of having to rebuild a building, but, given the nature of this particular building - in water all the time, over rocks, fish tangled in nets, hooks, hands, workers etc, it felt right that the fishing spots would need to demolished and built again. 

I just found that the fishing spots were too hard to place, even though they were designed to be on the small streams, on a small map, I only had a few places where I could place them - I think I'd like them to be more forgiving in placement. 

Because of the long edges, (and that's ok, just a lot of naked space in some cases of placement), I wonder if perhaps @despo_20 could design some protein storage that fits into that area between the stream and the roadway, it would need to be ghosted, and 2 wide - some baskets, or something in stone (like a medieval ice cooler?)

It was one of the things I had missed, was some storage that came with the mod - I know, I know - there are buttzillions of storage mods, why yours, but, I think it would fit into place there, a nice little puzzle piece.
I do currently use the BL 1x2 protein storage (which holds a massive haul), and I love it - but it doesn't match the fisheries

---  Reeds - I loved these, these were a delight to see when my map first spawned, the brought back some frond memories of some dried ones a relative used to have.

I wonder though, given that they can only spawn at x height, and the game can't create an oval - can you at least make the radius a little bigger though?  I felt that I wasn't getting enough 'bang for my tile' the way it was.  By making the radius bigger - the reeds can spread out along the banks right/left further and give some more room to the building?

****  I know this was mentioned over on BL, but I wanted to put it here before I forgot to again, the reeds aren't matching in with CC - now, I know there are those here who don't care for such things (and that's ok), but those that do use the reeds had hoped that both reeds would be compatible so that your reeds would work in CC buildings, and CC reeds would work in your buildings, and most importantly, we would end up with only 1 reeds in our inventory, not 2
If you & Despo decided not to do it this way - have both the reeds use the same name (or template etc), that's cool - it's just a nice idea to know

Ask @Necora  one day about eggs   hahahahah  He keeps promising I will have 1 set of eggs ...  turns out it was just a typo in the code

------------
Overall, I don't know about the numbers side of things - I didn't pay too much attention, other than it took a little while to pick up, and I felt it when the fish stopped - but, the mod - in general - it's a very beautiful mod, and I'm thrilled that you've gotten it to this point, and I'm glad it's compatible with other mods - and, thank you and Despo for the work you have put into it.

*ps:  I know somewhere in one of the help threads others talked about a RIOT program for optimising textures, to get the balance between the good and the optimal, I'm not sure if you had used that, if you'd run the textures through any optimiziation, that may help with the lag.

[RedKetchup]

i just want to say ... i think Luke knows too there is a problem with his optimization of his graphic engine. i remember he talked about it in one of his blogs :

http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/2016-06-23-passing-values/

he talked about the animations and the shader render code..
he got to kill down his citizens to the ground to see his numbers not lagging at some point...

i strongly doubt the fixes are already in game. nothing let me think he added fixes in 1.0.7 beta1+
maybe if he really decide to release his 1.1 version with OpenGL / and linux support it will maybe fix some trouble people have at high speed.

[Kristahfer]

I don't usually post, however I really do like this mod. Fantastic.
Some small issues I have found, and since I have trouble explaining thing I have included some picture as aids.


That pesky double egg issue shows up again.


Getting Beef Cows from a trader does not show up in inventory. They will stay in the paddock area of the Trading Dock until they die off. They also have a black and white appearance. Thought they were brown.


Both of the above showed up after loading NatDiv2. Included my top load order from NatDiv2 up as I thought mods above will modify lower mods when applicable.


This issues plus some of the ones I have seen here will in no way keep me from using this mod and its starting condition. This mod is great and ads a depth of play that enhances the wonderful work of all of those that have and are contributing to this great builder.


Thanks to all of you.

[RedKetchup]

strange when i read 3-4 times your list of mods.... @Kristahfer  , i dont see which mods add a black and white color to your cows. busy pasture ?

[Kristahfer]

It is odd as both the egg and cow issues appeared after loading NatDiv2. Prior to that the orginal NatDiv was in the same place with the same mods above it. Did not have the issues with the orginal NatDiv. I have nothing in my mod list that changes colors of cows at all.

[brads3]

yes and no. m ods above can actually completely override mods below. to get a mod to influence and work better you want it higher in the list.
you might find this useful:http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1790.0   
    you also seem to have a lot of older mods. i take it the colonial charter icon is a way earlier version of CC? if so uyou would want that lower in the order since it affects the start conditions.2nd to fix the cow problem i would load the compatibility 107 mod and if that doesn't fix it ,the compatable buildings mod from BL.  did you buy trading cows,beef cows,"cows",milk cows,or freishmen cows?? you might have the wrong type of pasture as trade cows is different.i'm wondering if the trader accept all is correlated to CC and therefore bringing you all items even 1's you can't use.
  you could try moving the riffle mod down and then take all those from that mod down and put them at the top. then put the trade fix mod above everything.

[embx61]

My Unified Mod changes cows to black and white but I did not see it in your mod list.

It's a Dutch thing, most cows in Holland are black and white

[Kristahfer]

Ah, not explaining things completely. Here is a complete list of my running mods. I am running the newest version of CC. Being 73 I am slow, I know, but it appears that all active mods work, but being slow I have not tested all of them. There are some minor issues with MegaMod, but still workable.


My better half calls me a mod hog....


edit: Thanks @embx61, I rarely use Beef Cows as I like the black and white.

[QueryEverything]

@Kristahfer Hiya

The double eggs is a known bug, it's a typo in @Necora 's code.  One version has 'egg' and the other has 'eggs' and that has delivered 2 lots of eggs now to the player.  It has been flagged to be fixed in his next update, upon his return.

The black & white cows - would be from CC, but the only reference I see to it are add-ons, not the whole mod.
Kid, RK & EB all put out Black & White cows as well, but none seem to be there.

Is that your whole mod list??

I think I'm missing something. 

Oh, don't touch your mod order - at this point, it looks absolutely fine, and if these are your only bugs, and 1 is actually a known bug, then don't touch your load order - it's not worth the headache, when you know it's not you, it's the mod

[QueryEverything]

oh, I see now.

I amend my last post @Kristahfer

All is ok - the eggs are bugs; the cows are normal; load order is good
The only things I would change:

Move these nearer the top (unless specific for under CC)
banishedUImod
banishedUImt
banishedUIprofessions
Radius
BlackLiquidRain
WaterAndOtherDecorations
XP-Schools
BetterStockPiles  --  works better over MM/CC

I've had stuck animals before - I ended up having to destroy the trader and move it - it's either a pathing issue, or noone knows why the animals get stuck, it's just odd. 

As for the eggs you'll end up with so many that your trader will get an eggache!!  hahahaha

[RedKetchup]

the picture of your black cows doesnt seems to be mine nor CC ones. our cows are more slim, less black, more white, and have a tail.
so probably, you didnt selected the good ones in your pastures.

also, check the numbers of cows in the pasture. if it shows 6/8 cows but see nothing inside it : that mean that they are really assigned to it but stay in the TP cause pathing / lack of update.
but if in your pasture it shows 0/8 ... then selected the wrong one.

[Kristahfer]

Thanks @QueryEverything , I will adjust my load order. I have always been amazed that they all work.


Great Joke.....

As for the eggs you'll end up with so many that your trader will get an eggache!!  hahahaha

Pasture shows the correct number @RedKetchup . Not really a big issue as it does not stop other animal trades and the moving them to pasture. Eventually they will die off, or so it appears.