World of Banished

Conversations => Suggestions and Mod Ideas => Topic started by: Abandoned on November 07, 2016, 08:25:51 AM

Title: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 07, 2016, 08:25:51 AM
With the Christmas season fast approaching, like @brads3, I think a separate mod of Christmas deco items would be nice.  I think they would go especially well with @Tom Sawyer North mod or separate Nordic mods.  Maybe red bows on white picket fence and lightpost, decorated trees for outside, or traditional Swedish decorations.  The travel section of our local newspaper yesterday, had an article on Swedish Christmas.  Writer mentions tradition decorations, candelabra lights, straw Julbock goat figures and decorations made of birch and pine, Santa Lucia, and Jultomte with a goat and sleigh. @Nilla would know more.  Goats would maybe be a good farm animal to add to the North, I don't know if there are goats already somewhere in the mods that I haven't got to yet. I wouldn't mind some gingerbread houses, and little snowman like one I saw in post.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 07, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
Hi! I read your post and have made a quick release of the snowman
that I showed earlier (somewhere in the forum)
I have made him free to build and immediately removeable.
You can place him on roads.
He is hardy :) Likes sunshine and summer :) :)

The icons are a bit sloppy but if anyone wants to change anything
I have included the code.

The original came from I don't know but I found him in a modpack for
the game Morrowind.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 07, 2016, 02:28:54 PM
@kid1293 oh my gosh, thank you and doesn't he look nice with that blue flax growing nearby.  I was just placing some of your decorative crates by the red barn and matching fenceless pasture you made and thinking we could use a few decorative bales of hay and bundles of corn stalks.  I just planted more of the garden vegetables and am eager to get to the story and post pictures.  Thanks again for great mods, really enjoyable.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: RedKetchup on November 07, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
ah ha !

look so awesome !!!  ;D
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: grammycat on November 08, 2016, 07:19:02 AM
Thank you so much!  My granddaughter is building them everywhere.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: estherhb on November 09, 2016, 10:26:11 AM
Adorable. Thanks for the Christmas cheer!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 15, 2016, 02:54:16 PM
How about another cheer?

This is a 'tomteverkstad' (Santa's workshop) which gives
Christmas gifts to everyone.
I have, for the moment, only Ale, Iron Tools and Leather Coats
as products. For free that is. :)
I thought about having Walnuts but I couldn't make them
appear magically from nowhere, so some food is needed.
Maybe blueberries. The 'nisse' (Santa's helper) goes out
in the night and comes back with something for each of you.
I don't know. You tell me.
And @DesoPL , no pirates, dont underestimate the power
of the good side. :)
(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_15_11_16_3_46_56.png)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 15, 2016, 04:27:20 PM
This should work to make it by magic.

ConsumeProduceDescription consumeproduce
{
Product _products
[
{
ComponentDescription _produceMaterial = "Template/RawMaterialWalnut.rsc";
ResourceLimit _resourceLimit = Food;
String _requirements = "...";
}
...


Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 15, 2016, 04:57:18 PM
oh my gosh, look at that. That is just fantastic.  How festive for Christmas.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 16, 2016, 12:14:34 AM
I know how to make walnuts appear 'by magic'
It's just that Banished never was about magic (or Santa Claus for that matter).

The cultivated products are nowhere from the start and I want it to be logical.
I didn't want to get food out of the air.
Blueberries on the other hand are quite possible to collect freely.
Roots and mushroom too.

Tools made from scrap metal found everywhere.
Coats made from old discarded coats.
Ale from whatever is fermenting in the kitchen. :)

Another possibility is firewood. Found everywhere in the forest.

I'll come up with something. I don't want to invent new stuff just for gifts.
The best is if they are already in the game.

A bag of firewood and a hammer... not a bad Christmas gift.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Discrepancy on November 16, 2016, 01:33:16 AM
... there are Acorns from the oak trees in the forests :) many a time, long ago did we grind them up and use as a substitute flour.

except for in the north... too cold and harsh for an oak.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 16, 2016, 01:58:36 AM
Fantastic!
We have overlooked acorns - and we have all those oaks!
That could be something.  ;)
Not in this mod but later.

I stay with Ale, Leather Coat, Iron Tools and Firewood.
All need a little work and some input in vanilla game.
Here they take a long time to create but cost nothing.

For updated version - check further down.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 16, 2016, 02:00:55 AM
I would prefer a magical Santa Claus. Who makes gifts out of nowhere. Not in huge masses, just for fun. Could be new things to eat or to consume in another way (like alcohol). And it would be nice to see some Christmas in the houses. Something new and flagged as food or fuel to be stored in houses and to be consumed after a while. A wooden toy railway is better than firewood. And can also be burned when necessary. ;D
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 16, 2016, 05:49:26 AM
Thanks @kid1293 for this wonderful Christmas gift.  @Tom Sawyer, I like the idea of a magical Christmas, maybe a red Santa's Sleigh with candy canes, Christmas cookies, toy train firewood is good, how about a lump of coal with red ribbon or bow.  I think I will definitely be visiting The North pole before Christmas this year.  What fun.  Thank you both for great mods.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: MarkJerue on November 16, 2016, 01:43:06 PM
Do we need to give Santa some milk and cookies (pie) to make him give us gifts?

And can Santa give all my lazy laborers coal? Seriously, get to work people!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Gatherer on November 16, 2016, 02:18:33 PM
What about a production building that looks like a market stall and produces snacks?
- baked apple (apples and firewood)
- baked chestnut (chestnut and firewood)
- baked potato (potato and firewood)
- popcorn (corn and firewood)

IMO the output produce should have a trade value of just 1 (even with firewood used) to prevent it becoming an export item and be used exclusively for home consumption during holidays. And the output numbers should be small (e.g.: 5 apples and firewood into 6-7 baked apples depending on education)

Good or bad idea?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 16, 2016, 03:10:54 PM
Good idea and good products.

It's basically an oven needed and a heater for the popcorn.
It sounds great as long as we keep the pizza-eaters at bay.  ::)

Let me think about it (it's over midnight and I'm tired)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2016, 02:13:33 AM
A good sleep do wonders. :)

I listened to @Gatherer and decided to have another market stall
with the products he suggested. I changed the numbers a bit.
Who wants to actually make less food or value?

I take 6 food (value 1), 1 firewood (value 4) and get 5-6 food (value 2)
So with uneducated it gets even and else a small gain.

I really tried to have a 'nisse' working, but ended up with two in the menu.
I guess I will have to combine this with 'tomteverkstad' if I want only one.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Nilla on November 18, 2016, 03:07:22 AM
Excellent! Who makes most business on Christmas markets? People who sell something to eat and drink (maybe there should be warm ale/mead/wine, spiced with herbs, too)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Gatherer on November 18, 2016, 03:24:24 AM
Brilliant stuff!!! Christmas is going to be great in Banished town.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2016, 03:41:04 AM
Glad you like it!

Why not try Discrepancy's Small Village?
There is a small mead brewer.

The popcorn didn't pop so I made roasted corncobs.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: grammycat on November 18, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
I love it-thank you kid.  How hard would it be to add fruitcake or gingerbread to the bakery or to a stall?  We have fruit and in CC there is ginger collected by the gatherer.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 18, 2016, 02:05:36 PM
Thank you @kid1293, for all these little goodies.  :)

I don't know if this would be easy to do, but how about some wreaths and garlands? Instant build, instant destroy decorations, just like your washing line clothes.

Speaking of... a range of designer-label Christmas nappies would be super. ;D (just kidding)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 18, 2016, 04:02:06 PM
I would love more decorations @elemental !

But - a big but, all walls are not aligned, so some decorations
would hang in the air, or worse, inside the wall.
Doing it for just some special houses is not fair.

It has to be some freestanding deco.
Maybe a new tree or something.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Gatherer on November 18, 2016, 04:31:04 PM
A decorated christmas tree? One normal and one double height? With decorative ghost christmas presents boxes?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 18, 2016, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: kid1293 on November 18, 2016, 04:02:06 PM

But - a big but, all walls are not aligned, so some decorations
would hang in the air, or worse, inside the wall.


I'm surprised to hear that because the straight row houses line up perfectly (they are "row" houses, after all). The angled houses get much more complicated but nobody expects you to make decorations that will fit on absolutely every house. That's far too much work. But even just a couple of different wreaths for some of the doors would be a very nice Christmassy touch. :)

I'm really loving your new row houses, too. One of my favourite mods. Thanks so much for updating them and adding that new texture set.  :)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 19, 2016, 06:25:36 AM
@elemental, I really like the looks of those garlands and wreaths.  No kidding, I wouldn't mind seeing some red long-johns hanging out on the wash line even in the snow.

@grammycat, what is Christmas without gingerbread men and Christmas stollen.  I think a separate stall or Gingerbread House bakery would be better than adding it to an existing bakery. 

@Nilla, not a tavern but maybe a drinks stall that looks Christmasy that sells hot cocoa, spiced eggnog, or hot apple cider.

@Gatherer, I agree, we definitely need Christmas trees. 

How do we thank mod makers for making our Christmas merry and bright?  (big) THANK YOU
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2016, 08:47:04 AM
Thanks @drnad !
Just a thing I never thought of.

...so again, here is (the updated)

Tomteverkstad
No problems that I know if you update.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 19, 2016, 09:11:08 AM
I agree with @Abandoned that Gingerbread should be a small
(but significant) stall in the market.
I also agree with @grammycat that we should have fruitcake.

Is it possible to have an updated 'Xmas Market' with these things?

I mean - there is an oven and room to make more food.
But it would also mean that if you want them you have to cultivate
ginger (does CC do that ? ) or trade for ginger, sugar and flour.
I will not start a production chain for flour and sugar.

It can stay as a menu entry 'til you have the ingredients so, no worry.

edit: Colonial Houses mod has sugar and flour production. :)
        Just need ginger resources.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Discrepancy on November 19, 2016, 06:50:04 PM
And my addition...

Christmas Tree
download below 'ChristmasTree_v1.zip'

This mod adds a buildable Christmas Tree for your village.
It will give happiness in spirit to all citizens.
They will also idle at the tree.

It sits on a 5x5 footprint, with the tree centered, the outer tiles around are road tiles:
Tree = 0 | Road = 1
11111
11111
11011
11111
11111

I did this because the tree has a fairly large spreading canopy.

Build cost = 5 logs + 21 work (1-2 Builders)

The decorations didn't turn out as well as I would have liked. ;) that said, I didn't spend a great deal of time on them either.

Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 20, 2016, 12:04:45 AM
Like it!   :)

Nothing wrong with the decorations.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Gatherer on November 20, 2016, 03:47:40 AM
Quote from: kid1293 on November 20, 2016, 12:04:45 AM
Like it!   :)

Nothing wrong with the decorations.

Exactly! Back then they would decorate it with what was at hand. Simple and efficient.

Good job.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 20, 2016, 10:22:37 AM
At the Christmas tree in the market there should be
gingerbread, or not?

Houston, we have a problem.
Fruitcake is not possible without a new chain to dry
different fruits. Or a plum cake... cherry cake?

Gingerbread is not possible with CC ginger.
I would have to go into their chain for the trees.
(where the ginger grows) and I don't think it would
be a nice ending to that.
BUT - I have made a 'generic' plant which is called 'Spice'
and it can hold all those different ingredients that is needed
for gingerbread. Cinnamon, Clove and Ginger and more...
So if you grow 'Spice' ( good for future projects too,
mulled wine...) and grow some grain and something to
make sugar from you can have Gingerbread.
Complicated? No, not really. It just takes a lot of time
to get all the seeds. It works with both CC and Colonial Houses.

Which leaves us with plum cake or cherry cake.
I can have both at the same time and skip sugar.
flour+cherry+plum+firewood. What do you say?

The picture shows where I am right now.
And yes, it's a small tribute to a great drummer!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: DesoPL on November 20, 2016, 11:35:33 AM
Okay okay but where is halloween decorations? Or pilgrim's bounty?!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: grammycat on November 20, 2016, 12:04:22 PM
kid-I think spice would be great! Maybe spice/gingerbread cookies and spice and plum cake? 
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 20, 2016, 12:11:14 PM
@grammycat - Do you think a plum cake is OK with
flour, plum, spices and I add firewood for the fire?

First I was thinking of a cardamom sponge cake but plum cake
sounds delicious. :)

Here we are discussing recipes.  ;D
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: The Pilgrim on November 20, 2016, 12:16:31 PM
Am I the only one amused that he's called a Ginger Baker?  (Ginger Baker is a famous drummer if you didn't know)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 20, 2016, 01:41:41 PM
One more picture before nightcap. :)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: grammycat on November 20, 2016, 02:21:39 PM
I think it would be perfect kid.  As a "from scratch" baker, I can tell you that plum cake does have plums and several spices in it.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 20, 2016, 05:28:53 PM
Oh my gosh, just look at these mods.  @Discrepancy that Christmas tree is just wonderful and @kid1293 the Christmas baker stand is marvelous, love the gingerbread men on baking sheets, and I happen to have the best ever plum cake recipe with spices.  Our bannies are going to have a merry Christmas for sure.  And spices for future mulled wine, good idea.  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: The Pilgrim on November 20, 2016, 05:36:41 PM
I have a great CD of Ginger Baker live with Fela Kuti and Africa '70. Phenomenal record.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: catty-cb on November 21, 2016, 01:13:51 AM
Its looking really good, I love the idea of having Christmas type things  :)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 01:14:35 AM
 :)  :)

Well, we're going to celebrate Christmas a long time this year.
But, if you want gingerbread, you have to work hard.
You have to get flour, sugar and spices. Not easy.
You can use CC or Colonial Houses mod to get flour and sugar.
You have to wait for the trader to bring you spices seeds.
I think it's part of the fun.

Here is Ginger Baker, making Gingerbread and Plum Cake.
(any resemblance with the drummer is pure coincidence)  ;)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 02:22:44 AM
While I am here -
Should I change 'Tomteverkstad' to 'Santa's Workshop'?
Some of you may not feel at home with tomteverkstad.

I am thinking of a combined Christmas mod of the things
I have posted here. With 'Nisse' as standard worker for
all buildings. I could call him 'Elf' but that would offend
all fantasy RPG-players. :)
Bannies are small but not so small as a 'Pixie' and
'Leprechaun' is very Irish.
Not an easy task.  ;D

Maybe just 'Helper' will work. 'Santa's Helper' is too long.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Discrepancy on November 21, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
QuoteI am thinking of a combined Christmas mod of the things
I have posted here. With 'Nisse' as standard worker for
all buildings. I could call him 'Elf' but that would offend
all fantasy RPG-players. :)
Bannies are small but not so small as a 'Pixie' and
'Leprechaun' is very Irish.
Not an easy task.  ;D

Maybe just 'Helper' will work. 'Santa's Helper' is too long.

I like the idea of a combined mod.

Why not 'Santa's Elf' ?
It is shorter, plus it distinguishes it as Santa's Elf, and not another Elf  ;)

Stonecutter is the longest vanilla name with 11 characters.

Santa's Elf = 11
Santa's Helper = 14
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 03:42:55 AM
OK!
From now on I call them Santa's Elf
(and I can call you Helper, thank you)

But they don't have pointy ears.  :o ;D

Tomteverkstad or Santa's Workshop?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 21, 2016, 03:46:00 AM
I could call him 'Elf' but that would offend all fantasy RPG-players.

Are you sure? Elf might make the RPG-ers squeal with delight. Elves in Banished! Finally!! But Santa's Elf does sound better.

I'm not a modern-day fantasy RPG-er, by the way. Anyone heard of Bard's Tale? Skara Brae? Mangar and Tarjan? Here's a very special link if you do: http://www.remix64.com/track/chris-prattini/bards-tale-ii-subtune-3/ (http://www.remix64.com/track/chris-prattini/bards-tale-ii-subtune-3/) Oddly enough Bard's Tale is part of the reason I like Banished, even though they are very different games. And good grief... it's been almost 30 years! Some of those dungeons are etched into my mind. OMG... Computers and computer games before the internet!!! :o Happy days!  8)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 04:10:22 AM
Another time traveller. Greetings! :)

I started on C64 and 128 and had all those nice RPG titles.
Later Dos with a lot of D&D games.
Check http://www.myabandonware.com/ (http://www.myabandonware.com/) for old dos games.

edit: thanx for the tune!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on November 21, 2016, 04:14:23 AM
Bard's Tale? I know of it but I never played it when it was released, I actually played it in the mid 2000s
Skara Brae? Yes I remember it too but not from Bard's Tale. I remember Skara Brae from Ultima Online... the year was 1999... and I remember Skara Brae from a visit to Scotland in 2010 to see relatives from my mother's side of the family (my mother's family are from Mainland, the island where Skara Brae is found in real life).

And yes, I remember computer games before the internet.
I blame The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall for my love of computer games.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 21, 2016, 05:22:18 AM
Oh yes, let's talk about old times. I played a lot on C64. At schooldays. I did not have such a computer myself, but with friends ... Later, even at school I had my first PC. A 386 with 40 MHz, 100 MB hard drive and with a strange Colani design. I played lots of DOS games. Nightlong Civilization and many others. With a friend I had endless sessions of Battle Isle. Since there was no LAN, not to mention Internet. We sat side by side on the same keyboard with split screen (14" with 640 px). Unbelievable. And I have nice memories of Adventures by Lucas Arts. Monkey Island, Indy an so on. RPG's I played much later, online. Especially Guildwars (1. version). But that's not old times. :)

This Christmas stuff sounds very nice and the DS Tree looks really great in game!
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: DesoPL on November 21, 2016, 05:49:24 AM
Oh damn there is too many games there! Including loved by me NES ones! I gonna play again Megaman series. :)
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Abandoned on November 21, 2016, 06:36:48 AM
Oh yes, so many games so little time, so little hard drive in those days, only 80 MB, windows 3.1.  Always had quite a few on Christmas wish list, Santa's elf must have been busy. DOS games, so good but a challenge just to get them installed and running. Now no problem to replay from Good Old Games. Husband and I can still play Hot Seat games of Heroes of Might and Magic. Today no disks or CDs needed. Still have 3.5" disk of old favorite really cute Christmas game, now on abandonware is Christmas Lemmings, have it installed on this laptop.  Banished and great mods are causing neglect of old games, good new game and mods.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 21, 2016, 01:07:05 PM
Seems there is a lot of nostalgia for old games out there. :)

The fun thing is you can still play a lot of the old old old stuff on emulators.

Back to Christmas mods... Kid, if you are going to package them all up, how about including Discrepancy's Christmas tree? Any plans to release it on Steam workshop?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 01:16:32 PM
Good old times.  :'(

Yes, I am going to pack Christmas mods together.
I got source from Discrepancy for Christmas tree so it will be there too.
edit - No, not Steam
edit too - I ask again 'Tomteverkstad' or 'Santa's Workshop' ??

And @elemental , here is a wreath for you, BUT it will not fit
most doors. The doors are all over the place.
Look at picture 2 and you understand.

It is only one model but it is placed in 15 positions (f-key) so you
can experiment where you want it.

I leave it here for the moment and for you to test  -

Christmas Wreath
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 21, 2016, 02:02:52 PM
Thank you for the wreath.  :)  Personally I don't care if it doesn't work with all doors, so long as it works on some of them, and It looks like it fits on your row house doors so that looks good to me. I'll take a closer look at it later today.

I vote for keeping the naming all in the same language. I don't mind which language you choose, so long as it's all consistent.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on November 21, 2016, 04:15:10 PM
I agree with elemental, I actually like 'Tomteverkstad' better than Santa's Workshop.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 04:28:55 PM
Keeping the names in Swedish feels a little wrong.
We're all communicating in English (more or less) :)
I probably get some words from Nilla and Tom too.  ;D

Is there a better english word for Santa's Workshop?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 21, 2016, 05:55:01 PM
If you go with English then Santa's Workshop is the best option.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Kristahfer on November 21, 2016, 06:54:34 PM
Would it be possible to have the option to change the names, or turn them on and off when the building is constructed?
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: elemental on November 21, 2016, 07:13:05 PM
That's not a bad suggestion. Instead of having the signage as part of the actual building model you could make separate signs in different languages that can be built on the side of the building, and then the player can decide which sign/language to use. But of course you still need to pick a language for the menus etc.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: kid1293 on November 21, 2016, 10:55:25 PM
You got it. It's more than one building.
My first concern is that I use correct english.
(I stay with english)

Have to go. Life doesn't wait.
Title: Re: Christmas Decoration Mod
Post by: Discrepancy on November 23, 2016, 05:05:00 AM
... meanwhile, in the downloads you will find,

DS Christmas Tree v2 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=156)

(http://i.imgur.com/gpO2zGz.jpg)

v2 brings gifts under the tree,
Press 'F'-key for tree size variants, as well as: 'with' or 'without' presents underneath the tree.