World of Banished

Preamble

I started making this set because I had a need for certain forestry resources, so wanted to make the forest centers to get them. I also wanted to add a bit more maritimes diversity to what can be gained from the forest. Rather quickly, this snowballed into a large set as with the more buildings and chains I added, I figured I had may as well do other things too so that it is more complete.

This set took a lot of time an effort, far too much perhaps. There are chains and buildings that I really like, and others which on hindsight could do with being improved. It also diverted away from other Maritimes sets, in that there was no real inspiration from Maritimes areas to make most of this set. I have learnt a lot, the limits of the mod kit, my limits as a modder, and have developed some interesting techniques and mechanisms, some that work, some that don't so much.

With that being said, this is the last update I will be making to the Pine Set, apart from any necessary bug fixes or balancing changes. I will continue supporting it in terms of making sure it is still compatible with other sets, but any improvements to chains will come as seperate stand alones, back in more of the Maritimes theme I've been trying to create.

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Downloads

Maritimes Pine Set v105 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=233)
String Tables are included in the zipped download

Maritimes Spreadsheet (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2nh4ixEBQ-kUU4wMlI0Qzh1TW8)
This is (will be) a comprehensive go to resource for all vital numbers in all Maritimes mods. Currently, it is up to date for all Pine Set buildings and resources.

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Compatibility Issues

I have tried to make this set fully compatible with all other mods. There are, however, a couple of points that I just could not solve. They are listed below...

• Charcoal and Colonial Charter Part 1 = This is an interesting one. Due to CC charcoal being linked to the brick making facilities, the high:low produce values are astronomical, from a comparitively tiny amount of logs. Therefore, if you use the Pine Set above CC, the output of charcoal from CC buildings will most likely be very low. It, on the other hand, you use CC above the Pine Set, the output of charcaol from Pine Set buildings will be very high. You have been warned ;)
• Charcoal and Colonial Charter Part 2 = Another difference is that in CC, charcoal is a fuel, where as in the Maritimes, charcoal is an industrial fuel as I don't want it used in houses. So if you want charcoal to be burned in your houses, put CC above the Pine Set. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.
• New Flora = In order to use both New Flora and the Pine Set, you need to use the Flax Patch (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=303) and New Pine Flora (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=304) patch. Put these two, and New Flora, above the Pine Set in your load order.

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Maritimes Pine Set V105 Change Log - September 28th 2017

Version 105 represents a balancing act. I have modified numbers relating to the spawning of natural resources to make it not quite as difficult to achieve these under play conditions - let me know how it works.

I have also tidied up menus by adding sub-menus to each section. This was necessary as the menus were getting quite bloated and messy. You will find the Maritimes button in the community toolbar, followed by a selection of things like civics, housing, industry etc. Within each of these you will see a pine tree, and that menu holds all of the pine set buildings in that area.

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Introducing the newest addition of the Maritimes Collection - The Pine Set.

The pine set breaks from the norm with the Maritimes Collection so far, because it has no specific source of inspiration. Instead, I needed some resources (pitch, turpentine, flax, etc.) for the dock themes to come, and so had to expand into the forest to get them. Well, one thing lead to another, and once I had a forester and some production methods for certain things, I needed to add more to support those, a blacksmith, lumber cutter etc. Once I had those, I though well, may as well do a pine version of the rest of the vanilla buildings to round the set off. Then, I decided to add a few more things Canadian such as a maple syrup chain, a maple whiskey chain etc. etc.

A long story short, this set snow balled, and here we have it.

You will find a range of buildings, mostly suited to making a small forest outpost/small hamlet scenario. Most buildings are slow at producing, only house one or two workers, and have low capacity. Ideal for a small forest town supplying your larger towns.

Read on for some specific instructions for various buildings...

Forest Resources.

The main addition of this set are three chains for forestry outputs. Each chain has a specific tree set, spawned resources, and it's own version of certain buildings. The buildings from these chains need to be built together in order to work. Let me explain...

Pine Forest.

In the resources tab, you will find a 'Pine Forester'. This building is a 1x1 tower, and employs up to two foresters. Your foresters will go out and plant three new trees: Spruce, Fir, and White Pine.

These new trees spawn the following resources;
Pine Boughs - A material used to make Pine Pitch and Charcoal in the Pine Pitch Kiln.
Pine Resin - A material used to make Turpentine when stilled using Charcoal for the fire in the Turpentine Still.
Flax - This wild flax is harvested as standard flax, which will be used in linen chains.
Chanterelles - A mushroom common in spruce forests in Nova Scotia.

All of these resources are gathered by the 'Pine Harvester', a small cache which employes up to 2 gatherers.

Warning - To not overpower these buildings, the Pine Forester will only plant pine/fir/spruce trees, which only spawn the above mentioned resources. The Pine Harvester only harvests these four resources. For maximum use, it is probably best to clear at least some of the area within the radius of these buildings when you place them.

Maple Forest.

How can we be in Canada without some good old maple syrup? In the resources tab, you will find a 'Maple Forester'. This building is a 1x1 tower, and employs up to two foresters. Your foresters will go out and plant two new trees: Maple and Aspen, along with vanilla Oaks and Apple.

These trees spawn the following resources;
Maple Sap - A material used to make Maple Syrup when boiled in the Maple Boiler using Charcoal.
Blueberry - Apparently a super berry. A cash crop in Nova Scotia.
Cranberry - Also a super berry. Another crop in Nova Scotia.
Wild Apples - Apple trees are everywhere around here. While not technically wild, they were introduced by European settlers, they were not planted in orchards as much as one in every garden, lining roads, basically everywhere they could. Now, down the most deserted forest track you will usually come across a heavily laden apple tree. When harvested, wild apples produce vanilla apples, which can be eaten or used in making hard cider when pressed with maple syrup in the Cider Press.

All of these resources are gathered by the 'Maple Forager', a small cache which employes up to 2 gatherers.

Warning - To not overpower these buildings, the Maple Forester will only plant maple/apple/oak/aspen trees, which only spawn the above mentioned resources. The Maple Forager only harvests these four resources. For maximum use, it is probably best to clear at least some of the area within the radius of these buildings when you place them.

Pine Versions of Vanilla Buildings.

A hunter, forester, and gatherer, all using vanilla resources, have been added in the pine style.

Also, a herbalist has been added. [/list]

 :) looks great.

Very nice! It looks really interesting. You are diligent! I'm lucky: I've just finished one game; testing @Tom Sawyer´s ironwoman. I do want to try this. I don't know, if you've read any of my blogs, where I test different mods. I know, I'm not the average player; I have no talent of "city building". If my settlements look good, it's more because you talented modders, make lovely things, than me putting them together in a creative way. When I test something, I look at the balancing, the surviving aspects, the economy. I also say clear, if I like something or not. Do you want me to blog my test of this (and your other) mods? If I do, it will be my honest opinion; I think, I will like most of it, but I will probably also have some negative comments.

@Nilla I'm a biologist IRL, so the story of my life is 'honest opinion' and criticism.. I'm used to it ;) . In seriousness though, please do! Criticism is great, when it is constructive, it only helps to improve the mod for all. I'll give a disclaimer first though, I'm sure the balancing of this set needs much attention and improvement. I'm still very new to modding, and balancing is something I have very little experience with or talent at. So the more feedback I can get on this side of things the better. I'm always looking to improve the playability of the mods, yet have very little time to play through myself. While I can catch a lot of bugs, there are some I miss. Also, a lot of the chains in this mod lead to nowhere right now, they are setting up for future releases in the marine chain. So twine, pitch, turpentine, right now they are useless end products (trade bait), but they will be useful in the (hopefully near) future when making things like sails, spars, hulls etc.

Also, any ideas on how to make products more useful would be great. For example the Dory. I introduced it as a 'realistic' building requirement for the fisheries, if you want to catch lobster you need a boat. However, once you have built the building, that is it, they are no longer useful aside from trade bait. I'd love to find a way to make things like boats have a 'lifespan' so they are in more constant demand and not just for trade, or are needed to continue production in buildings.

I look forward to seeing it.

i would like to hear NILLA's testing reports too. coming off such harsh climates that she has played lately, it will be interesting to hear her ideas with the production numbers.  others have checked for glitches and functionality but not much attention has been made of that side of it. the other advantage is NILLA does not use CC,and doesn't have much playing time with it either.

Just some quick feedback. First fantastic setup, love it.

Second -if there is any way to get the fur numbers up this would be good. I think it would be good to get around 200 furs per trapper per season. The random thing is fine as long as it averages out to be around 200 to 300 per.

Still playing with it, but it all looks good except for the numbers seem a bit too low. Will add more later after playing with it more.

I've been playtesting a bit with this set tonight and so far all is going fine. I have the vanilla pine forrester and gatherer running, the herbalist, blacksmith (it's tool production for iron tools seems a little on the low side). Just got the Maple forester and gatherer running and about to have a pine skinner in business.
I have noticed however that the left side texture of the updgraded pine lodge is missing something, screen shot of the problem included for you.

Edit to add: Now it crashed, after the skinner was working for a short time, and previously I had a crash at the same point in another save so I'm looking to the pine skinner being a crash culprit.

Looks mighty cold in there! Although, I think I just had an idea for glass. @RedKetchup look at that picture. The normals are the wrong way on that face, but the ambient occlusion is still showing up. This is giving it a glass look... do you think this is something that can be used for greenhouses and things?

And as for the skinner... I think there was a mixed up flag in that building. It should be fixed for the next update.

Thanks for reporting!

no flipping the normals doesnt help. yes from outside looking inside looks transparent, but doesnt gather snow and from inside looking outside the texture become opaque. usually inside looking outside rarely happends but in a greenhouse you are outside looking inside and in that inside you have glass looking outside^^
and it doesnt gather snow neither

Pine set has been updated!

Quote from: Necora on April 01, 2017, 06:01:14 AM
Pine set has been updated!

thanks you :)

thanks you.Great work :)

Great work Necora.

I am glad you was able to crush that nasty bug.

I'm keeping here a list of things that need to be altered next time...

Fur Coats - Too powerful, need 4 fur input not 2.

Turpentine Still - doesn't accept wood fuel.

Updated to a beta... enjoy

I love the diagonal cabins, but I'll be having to use your empty square mod (I do anyway) to keep trees from growing inside the cabins. ;)

It is the forester's cabin, but still. :P I chopped all of the other trees down to make it easier to see.

(http://i.imgur.com/iWVAZuv.jpg)

KAR,you are hired. you test and report back good and bad points.good find.

@Karlieb I had the same thing happen to a Stockpile, I was laying the pile as the tree sprouted, it was 'perfect timing', I left it there for fun viewing, didn't get a screenshot though, was going to get one, then changed maps. :(

It looks like your house has antlers :D :D

Are the forester guys supposed to be producing fur?

I got this error last night after I built the lumberyard and someone tried to stock lumber. So I disabled all mods except for Maritime mods and got the same message. Next I will try it with just the Pine Set to see if it happens with no other mods whatsoever. I test these things while testing my personal mod thing so no games are being hurt. ;)

Never mind; only happens in the dev version. Because I'm too dumb to /onlypkg

______________________________________________________________

Quote from: brads3 on May 22, 2017, 07:46:08 PM
KAR,you are hired. you test and report back good and bad points.good find.

Thanks. ;) Unfortunately I don't know if there's a way to 'fix' the diagonal buildings because I don't think you can do the solid parts like so:

xx
xxx
x

But then again, the pine storage unit is solid like this:

x

xx

Oh, I see. The "Maple Forestry" building is collecting furs, pelts, maple sap. But it's also planting trees but not cutting the ones it plants. There's also a weird gap in between the "Cut" and "Plant" buttons:

(http://i.imgur.com/XU6avMD.jpg)

interesting changes. i would expect the forester to cut old trees as he plants the new.good that he collects what he finds as he plants too.do you have other foresters? i would check the log production via the TH. he may be harvesting logs but it can't show on the small forester window.

@Karlieb nice pic, I guess those empty squares will come in handy. I couldn't figure out the best footprint for a diagonal building, so just made it 1x1.

About the foresters. When foresters go out to plant trees, they will clear any resources that are in the way. So they pick up stone, iron, and all of the gatherer/trapper items. There is a line in the code for these items that defines a specific profession to harvest them. In previous versions, this was defined as Trapper. So when the trapper cleared the resource, it produced the intended raw material (so clearing a beaver lodge will produce pelts). The issue is when someone else cleared the item, a laborer if you use the 'clear resources' button or clearing to make way for a building/crop field etc. or a forester when clearing to plant trees, with this line in the code the resource is simply cleared and nothing produced from it. So I edited out this line of code, making it so that no matter what profession clears the resources their raw materials are still produced. This does mean that the foresters will 'produce' these items, because they are clearing them away to plant trees. The UI for the past production is small, and does not automatically grow with more harvested items. So they will be harvesting more than what is shown there, that is just the order they were first picked up that year. I might increase this to show more lines.

Also, if you plant a maple forester, it will clear all other trees while planting new ones. It won't start harvesting the new trees until they have reached a certain age, so it can take a while to transition from one type of forest to another. You can speed this up by clearing all resources in the forester radius when building the tower. This does not have to be done for the vanilla foresters, they use the trees already on the map, but it will happen for the pine and maple forester.

And the UI, I was trying a code which worked on other buildings but didn't notice that it messed up these ones, so it will be fixed for the final version.

Cheers!

Very quick @Necora (love, love, love the updates the last 2 days & vote +1 for the @RedKetchup + @Necora cross over fodder palooza!)  moving on ..

The titles of the Pine buildings are squished, seems like you took the empty spaces from my title box and placed them in @Karlieb UI :)  No matter, it's not game altering.

I think this set is brilliant, thank you for pushing out the beta :D
Just a new setup I quite fancy :)  Night :D

hmm interesting fix. it is good that our laborers don't just trash beaver lodges anymore.this should give more resources to the beginnings of games since everyone will be able to collect all kinds of items. it brings questions though. can the start maple trees  produce sap since it too could be harvested?and we could add a few apples to the start map?not a lot but a few near the start point or if needed 1% of the trees on the map? does this gathering ability transfer to other gatherers as well? so a vanilla gatherer can or will harvest pelts if he finds a trap or beaver lodge? and will he collect apples?
   KARL are you running CC?? i'd like to see a test of the stone or iron gatherer wit this new way.it might be interesting to see what all they would find.or a renewable resource mod stone or iron planter.

Hi @Necora I've found another bug.


The straight Colourful Pine Cabin converts to a Diagonal Colourful Pine Cabin when it is upgraded.  No other houses/cabins so far are affected by this - only the straight Colourful Pine Cabins.


When placing the cabins, it's exactly as planned.  When clicking on the house, everything is as planned, even the upgrade icon is correct - then boom, diagonal Colourful Pine Cabins
I have also noted that the name is correct when clicking on the upgraded cabin 'Upgraded Pine Cabin'.


I've attached screenshots for you. :)


In the single screenshot where the houses are highlighted, the diagonal houses in the back row are correct, the front row were the Colourful Pine Cabins, the screenshot is to show the house title and UI.

1 more bug - or, not sure if you hadn't squished it, or it made it's way back in - we're back (still at???) 2 sets of eggs.
Yours, and CC's - I think you said over at BL it was an 'egg' vs 'eggs' situation.

I was wondering why I had 5000 eggs, but no baking!!  hahaha ...  then I checked again and realised I have 2 egg icons.

the vanilla chickens produce one kind, the maritimes coop and wild spawn produce the other for me.

Not sure if this is a bug, or just a visual glitch given that the woodchopper is so tiny, and the demolish button is right at the drop down, but whilst the building is being demolished, it's a weird "gappy" thing in the chopper UI.


It's just odd.  :)  Could also be nothing.  It doesn't worry me really as I don't normally go back to check on it, it just caught my eye when I was moving things around. :)

I like where this set is going. Like thew houses and introduction to new Canadian chains.

Really nice use of foresters to gather specific goods for chains in its own specific areas. Towers are nice but you only get to see them briefly :(
A generic forester with a drop down box to select what should spawn in the radius, wonder if that's doable?

Absolutely love the trees that the Pine Forester puts out, wish the whole map was nothing but those three, an entirely forested over map the same density throughout. Cant wait to make use of the genius empty square.

One look I have been wanting to see with towers if something that breaks the tree line. Somewhere in the center of the photo below is a Pine Forester tower. The forester in the vanilla game came close but fell short in the magnificent forest below. The top of a tower breaking thru the trees would look fantastic I think. If towers are being overtaken by trees I wouldn't call them towers, there stumps the children play on. Something with a 2x2 base and build up. Anyone out there willing to take that up, please.

This is how forest were meant to be done! Nailed it! Great job!
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/PredatorBeing/Capture_zps1ur7fsuw.png)

PREDATOR
how are the gathering numbers now? have you tried the trapper? how much do the workers pick up just clearing to build?do you play with or without the NAT DIV?

I'm jumping around trying out the new mods. I mostly just got a feel for the chains and tried building a little of everything. I did seem to gather quite a lot of barrels of, I believe it was, Pine Resin, seemed like overkill. At the same time, perhaps I also needed more  production using it, so I don't know for sure, just a quick try out. I may go back and look a bit closer at it this weekend. I just had to jump on DS Blast Furnace and Industry Mining, and Red's Garden Utility, with Nat Div.

So much great stuff, thank you all for your time and talent.

i know the feeling. i finally took time and played longer maps. i keep having to adjust the mod order.do want to check the new pine sets soon.problem i notice is we need new and more storage.other than EB's markets we are limited with the new tags.CC has cellars and then higher grade barns.at the moment i'll have to use KID's covers and make more piles.have you tried the pine without the NAT DIV? it would give thicker forests but you give up the meadows.

Hello all,

The 104 BETA mod has been updated to a full release with bug fixes.

Note - I did this a couple of months ago now, but the download links didn't update as I hoped they would before I went away and I've not been able to fix this until now. Also, as it has been a while, I can't remember most of what was changed, so sorry for no detailed change list.

In reply to @PredatorBeing above, yeah, some of the production chains are not complete as they will merge with other chains from other mods (this was initially one continuous maritimes mod that went modular). So there will be somethings that have little use right now, but hopefully not for long especially with the increase in build requirements.

Cheers!

@Necora -   I've got a question...   Has anyone mentioned a lack of Pine Resin?   For some reason, I have been getting no resin anymore. I'm using all of EMB's mods and lately using the CC docks.   Any ideas?   By the way I love the pine stuff and am looking forward to more goodies in the future!

@adelegarland hmm, not heard that. No other mods should have an impact on the pine forester. The resin only spawns from the pine forester tree set, so as long as you have a pine forester tower built you should get the resin. I just booted up a save game and it is being produced ok there.

@Necora Hmmm   weird, I've done 3 towns to test and after about 7 years, I have Pine Boughs galore - but no Resin.  I just started another town and have placed all your mods at the top in this order...Flax patch, New Pine Flora, Pine set, Nat Div 1.1, maritime deco. Sherbrooke village, Mar Riffle, PEI shore, Mar Storage collection, ns inshore, mar dock set, and crystal cliffs.   everything else after.  I'll let you know if resin shows up.

@Necora and @kralyerg Its a conflict with the CC Docks Mod.   After disabling the CC Docks mod, the resin came back!   Enabled CC Docks again and the production of resin ceased.

interersting problem. did you change the mod order and re-try?

@brads3 -yes, put Docks before pine set and below, both produced the same result.

did you try the compatibility 1.07 mod from CC with it? noty sure it would help but might be worth trying.

@brads3 Yes I have it toward the top of the load order.

that is very strange then. i take it you don't have CC with the dock both?did you run the game with the pine forester and cache for several years? it takes 5-10 years to get the pine trees planted and producing. you do have the newest pine mod and not the original that included NECORA's docks and sherbrooke,right?

I dont have the complete cc just the docks,   I'm checking the versions of Necoras stuff now.  I have all the latest files.

@adelegarland this is a head scratcher.

I managed to download the dock set (my internet is extremely slow so downloading mods is a mission).

I went through the file list, and there are no conflicting files in there that I can immediately see that would impact the spawning of certain resources from the pine forest.

I ran the game with just docks and pine, docks above pine, and no resin was spawned from the trees.

I also ran with pine above docks, and again no resin.

I also noticed that there are two types of trap missing also, for fur and pelt. Do you have a trapper in those woods? If so, what is it producing? From a well established pine forest, the trapper should be producing eggs, game, fur, and pelt. Mine only produced eggs and game. I couldn't see the trap models for fur and pelt, a snare trap and a dead fall trap.

There are two things I don't understand...

1 - why the load order doesn't seem to change the issue - although, docks does change the spawn section of NaturalResourceTree.rsc, but I'm not sure why. I had a good look around, and if you load docks on top, none of the maritimes natural resources spawn in the initial 'vanilla' forest. If you load pine on top, all of them spawn, but it doesn't seem to change what dock resources also spawn, so I'm at a loss as to why the load order isn't having the desired effects on loading resources. Or why it wouldn't reverse the blocking of resin and the two traps.

2 - what the dock set could have changed that would effect what resources are spawned by the pine tree, which is it's own unique file name with no conflicts - NaturalResourceMaritimesPineTreeSet.rsc (bit of a mouthful that - but all the more reason for no conflicts).

We'll have to call in the big guns... @kralyerg do you have an idea here?

Just to add a wrinkle to the problem. I have also noticed that the pine resin is not being produced from the pine forest. I don't have the CC Dock set, but do have CC Journey (I think that is the latest version) installed. It seems to have changed when the Pine set came out of Beta when Necora got back. Beta version of Pine set had pine resin, latest version does not. I have not looked at it close enough to notice about the traps for fur and pelts.

CC is loaded after the Pine set. I don't have Nat Div loaded, but do have the New Pine Flora.

@Necora    At least I'm not crazy!!  Thanks for checking into it, I checked the trapper and you are absolutely correct, there are no pelts and furs, only game and eggs.  If i start a game without the docks - I get all the resources, no problems.  I hope @kralyerg will have the answer!

start setting gremlin is hiding in the dock mod causing you fits.

Quote from: brads3 on September 15, 2017, 07:32:27 PM
start setting gremlin is hiding in the dock mod causing you fits.

Fits and tantrums!!   I want to use both mods, how frustrating!   :(

I'm on mobile right now, so I don't have the files in front of me.

I'm not sure why putting the Pines over the Docks doesn't fix it. Unless the NaturalResourceMaritimePineTree is copying directly from the Natural Resource Tree file.

The docks has the CC edited Tree files for the terrains and starting conditions that are part of it. But it's exactly the same as CC, so if this worked with CC, it should work with the Docks.

I'll have a look at the files when I get home later.

I have CC Docks enabled below any of the maritimes mods and sherbrooke mod. My pine trappers only collect game, fur and pelts. I can see beaver lodges but no egg nests.

@Necora
OK  I have tried the Pine set without the Docks and I'm still having the problem, I'm in the beginning of a new game, year 4, and it seems like the trapper starts out finding pelts and furs and after 3 years only finds game and eggs.  The Harvester's Cache hasn't found any resin yet.  I wonder if the problem is in the pine set itself, wasn't there an update to it recently?  I'm not any kind of a modder, so I'm probably wrong...

@adelegarland you might be right. It seems to be only the pine forest that has an issue, the rest works fine. I'll look through the code tonight and see if I can see anything.

the latest version is 1.04BETA updated may 22,
http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/166-maritimes-pine-set/

are you using the new flora mod? there were patches made that are needed to use that mod.

pine resin works on mine.i am using CC not the dock mod.
           with the latest pine mod beta,you do not need the tree mod combined with it.the mod needs to be high in mod order above other mods that change the start settings this includes the nat div mod.check your foresters. if you have the latest version the forester will harvest pelts and pine materials not just logs.this applies to the maple forester as well.
      it doee take several years to get the pine forest to produce. the new pines are different and need to be planted and take time to grow.

Quote from: brads3 on September 18, 2017, 10:21:44 AM
pine resin works on mine.i am using CC not the dock mod.
           with the latest pine mod beta,you do not need the tree mod combined with it.the mod needs to be high in mod order above other mods that change the start settings this includes the nat div mod.check your foresters. if you have the latest version the forester will harvest pelts and pine materials not just logs.this applies to the maple forester as well.
      it doee take several years to get the pine forest to produce. the new pines are different and need to be planted and take time to grow.

@brads3    I'm not using the tree mod, My load order is: EB Vanilla Mine Override, Flax Patch, New Pine Flora, Pine Set, Natural Diversity 1.1, 1.07 Compatibility, and all the rest...  In villages with Docks enabled - it is the very last mod in the load order.   All my mods are the latest releases, I check for updates daily. 
For the last two days I have been testing these mods in villages aging from 5 to 23 years, so I am waiting for years to see the Pine Resin.   I am watching the productions very carefully to make sure of what I'm reporting.  The Harvester's Cache Finds Flax, Chanterelle, Pine Boughs and in the beginning Pine Resin.  The trapper finds Eggs, Game, Pelts and Furs early on then stops finding the furs and pelts.  Pine resin is usually found in year 7 of the pine forest, and seems to be non-existent after approximately year 8 to 11.  It does vary from game to game.  The pine Forester seems to be finding Logs, Pine Boughs and Flax now.  In the current Village, of Mossyrockle (I love that name) with both the pine set and CC Docks loaded, (Docks enabled after year 5)  I am in Year 8 and I have only a pine forest.  I have found a total of 20 Pine resin and 4 pelts in year 7, lots of Pine Boughs and Flax.
I've also noticed that the forester, gatherer and hunter of the Pine Set all find Pine Boughs now.  Is that weird?  Its year 8 and I'm adding in the Vanilla Forestry, Vanilla Gatherer, Vanilla Herbalist, Pine Hunter and Pine Trapper, all from the Pine set to give me some comparison.  Year 8 is over and there has been no resin, no pelts or furs but good amounts of pine boughs and flax.  I'll keep updating...
Year 9 and the newest Pine Trapper has found both Furs and Pelts, and in Year 10 has found them again, along with the 2 year old Vanilla Forester from the pine set also finding Furs.  No Furs, Pelts or Resin from the 10 year old Pine set items.
It's year 16 and the first year's Pine Forester, Trapper Gatherer are still not finding ANY Pine Resin, or Pelts and Furs.  The eight year old Vanilla Groups is Still finding Fur and Pelts, so that's reassuring.  In Year 15 I added in the maple Forestry grouping and after two years am seeing Pelts and Furs.

i'm not using the flora mods. that would narrow down ehere to look. so you are getting resin but low amounts? the resin and pelts do take longer than the others to produce. furs take double the time growth than the resin.
    as for the "weirdness" of all workers finding pine boughs,i do not remember having that happen. the forester will check traps though and collect game,pelts,and furs.i would say that too is from the flora mod. is it a bad thing though? i find the hunter or forester checking traps to be right.if he walks by a trap, you would expect him to check it.however would he also collect various pine boughs?  it may be a coding give and take. leave as is functions but to stop the hunter and trapper form gathering pine boughs,you might give up the forester collecting food and pelts as well. in that case i would rather see it left as is.not though i do not see these issues.

The issue is that the resin dries up after about a year and doesn't show up again.  and the pelts and fur are gone after a few years as well, not just taking long to be produced - gone.   That puts a stop to all manufacturing that depends on these items.

Well firstly the foresters getting other items that are not logs - There is a line of code in all natural resource files that states what profession will harvest them into an item. For example, the vanilla herb can only be picked up by a herbalist. If any other profession tries to pick up the herb, it will produce nothing. So when you clear space for a field or use the remove all resources button, and labourers clear the resources, no herbs are collected. Likewise a forester will clear areas in the circle to plant trees, so if a herb is cleared, nothing is created. If you remove this line of code, then every time a resource is cleared it will produce that item, regardless of what profession clears it. Now, I've gone for a half and half approach to make some things more accessible from the start and also so that less is wasted when cleared for other purposes (fields or forester etc) and have it so that some items can be picked up my anyone. This includes boughs and flax. However, other items can only be picked up by the respective professions, which includes pine resin and fur.

Secondly, the time for growth. I played around with this to make it harder to get certain items, mainly fur, because the value of them is so high. So according to the template for the pine tree set (there is a lot of back and forth in the mod kit files, which does make it hard to follow sometimes and is mightily frustrating), it will spawn when the tree reaches 3 years while the resin will spawn when the tree reaches 1.5 years age. Now, it is not as simple as that, because there are other things at play such as spawn chance. Resin has a spawn change of .2, while for example the nest of eggs has a spawn chance of .4, meaning nests are more likely to spawn than resin. I guess, if you have nests and other things spawning early and at a higher rate, they may not be allowing the resin and fur the chance to spawn. So there are a number of things that can impact how much resin is present at any one time, the age of trees, the number of trees at that age, and the amount of other things around them. If you have a mature forest area (that is not being heavily harvested, so trees make it up to 1.5 years before being cut) then you should be producing resin, but you might have to also make sure you have trappers and gatherers out harvesting all of the other nuggets from the forest to make sure that the resin and furs actually have a chance to spawn.

It might be a case of too many things spawning at once, so I'll see how it goes and maybe will change some of these numbers again.

What about a small standalone mod with which a player could choose what to pick from the ground? Like @tanypredator has in her flora mod? Different icons to collect edibles, herbs, textiles. That way a player could clear the area to make room for a better chance of specific item he/she wants to see spawned.

Quote from: Necora on September 18, 2017, 02:56:39 PM
Well firstly the foresters getting other items that are not logs - There is a line of code in all natural resource files that states what profession will harvest them into an item. For example, the vanilla herb can only be picked up by a herbalist. If any other profession tries to pick up the herb, it will produce nothing. So when you clear space for a field or use the remove all resources button, and labourers clear the resources, no herbs are collected. Likewise a forester will clear areas in the circle to plant trees, so if a herb is cleared, nothing is created. If you remove this line of code, then every time a resource is cleared it will produce that item, regardless of what profession clears it. Now, I've gone for a half and half approach to make some things more accessible from the start and also so that less is wasted when cleared for other purposes (fields or forester etc) and have it so that some items can be picked up my anyone. This includes boughs and flax. However, other items can only be picked up by the respective professions, which includes pine resin and fur.

Secondly, the time for growth. I played around with this to make it harder to get certain items, mainly fur, because the value of them is so high. So according to the template for the pine tree set (there is a lot of back and forth in the mod kit files, which does make it hard to follow sometimes and is mightily frustrating), it will spawn when the tree reaches 3 years while the resin will spawn when the tree reaches 1.5 years age. Now, it is not as simple as that, because there are other things at play such as spawn chance. Resin has a spawn change of .2, while for example the nest of eggs has a spawn chance of .4, meaning nests are more likely to spawn than resin. I guess, if you have nests and other things spawning early and at a higher rate, they may not be allowing the resin and fur the chance to spawn. So there are a number of things that can impact how much resin is present at any one time, the age of trees, the number of trees at that age, and the amount of other things around them. If you have a mature forest area (that is not being heavily harvested, so trees make it up to 1.5 years before being cut) then you should be producing resin, but you might have to also make sure you have trappers and gatherers out harvesting all of the other nuggets from the forest to make sure that the resin and furs actually have a chance to spawn.

It might be a case of too many things spawning at once, so I'll see how it goes and maybe will change some of these numbers again.

I understand the theory, and have appropriate numbers of each of the trappers gatherers and foresters out gathering, but there is NO resin and NO pelt and fur...  not for years.   There should be something each year, at least a small amount, but zero doesn't work.  Is there any way to have a minimum amount limit?  I don't know the first thing about what you guys do, so I'm sorry if I'm presuming too much.   I hope my efforts are helpful, not annoying.  :)

since the problem seems to be related to the new flora and patch, did you players having issues double check which patch you have?NECORA made a couple and did a good explanation of which and how to use them.

I'm not using New Flora or New Pine Flora or even Flax Patch.

this is a mystery then. i do have resin and am using CC. GATHERER what other mods are you using?or is it too big a list?

Check it out, you're the expert on load orders.

EBWFValueOverride
banishedUImod
NMTCrops
NMTLittleHousing
tradecomplete
MaritimesStorage
NewLimitVanillaTP
banishedUI
SeasonFX
limitResource
tighterroadsextended
StorageMod
MoreWood
MoreIron
MoreStone
betterFields
NMT30CanalSet
NMT30ClayChain
NMTForestCenter
NMT30MultiStoryHousing
newmedievaltown
KidSBVMission
MaritimesPineSet
KidRowBusiness
MaritimesTrees
EBVillage
MaritimesDecorations
EBIrrigationGround
NatDiv
EBIrrigationNatural
plains
MaritimesNSInshore
MaritimesDockSet
EBWaterWell
MaritimesPEIShore
MaritimesSherbrooke
ForestOutpost
CCDocks
KidHouseBoat
MiniBuildings
ColonialResource
WheelbarrowBigger
DSWagonVendor
KidStorageCarts
DSSmallVillageProduction
DSTownHouses
KidPastureShed
EBBridges
DSJettyAndBridge
DSSmallVillageServices
BetterStockPiles
KidWildWest
SpecializedStockpiles
BetterStockPileStorage
RKFirewoodStorage
EBWinery
RKGardenWallsUtility
DSSmallVillageStorage
EBStorageSet
EBMaterialsStore
storageCart
StorageCrates
Charburner
DSCrestBlacksmith
DSPickandHenBrewery
EBHerbalist
WorkPlace
Tiny
KidRowHousing
sawmill
Mathieuso_Furnace
ChickenCoop
EBMarketSet
marketpuzzle
HouseSmall
LogDepot
NordicWarehouse
SmallPort
KidAbbey
LargePort
ColonialHousing
DSStoneHovels
EBFarmhouses
GHLightHouse
NewEngland
RedCottage
CountryLittleHouse
EBIrrigationDecoAddon
nordichouses
EBChapel
EBSVSigns
EBChurch
DecoSunflower
VillageSchool
FenceLess
CropHerb
Pigs
EBDecoFences
EBDecoration
KidDecoPlants
fig
whiteChicken
NECEmptySquare
MagicBrickWalls
Mathieuso_Decorations
NMT30DecoCrop
DecorativeItems
RKStoneWallsKit1
RKGardenWalls
KidWashingMod
KidYardCover
WashingMod
EBRoads
EBDecoStatues
BirchBarkCanoe
Covering
DSFences
DSRoads
EBSunflower
NewTrees
smallwell
WhitePicketFence
CleanMeat
kayTweakMoreWorkers
vBetterRainSound
BobbiDoctorHouse
CallofNatureSoundtrack
detachableMonkeyDisableFires
flatten
roadTest
LessFog
XP-HS-Training
IrrelevantTweakCrops
LongerLivingOrchards
mushroom
Radius
EBTombStoneOverride
professionsBox
NomadSignComplete
TinySmoke
MegaModDecoPack[\code]

UPDATE:  MOSSYROCKLE My test of the Pine set Mods
For the last few days I have been testing these mods in villages aging from 5 to 23 years, so I am waiting for years to see the Pine Resin.   I am watching the productions very carefully to make sure of what I'm reporting.  The Harvester's Cache Finds Flax, Chanterelle, Pine Boughs and in the beginning Pine Resin.  The trapper finds Eggs, Game, Pelts and Furs early on then stops finding the furs and pelts.  Pine resin is usually found in year 7 of the pine forest, and seems to be non-existent after approximately year 8 to 11.  It does vary from game to game.  The pine Forester seems to be finding Logs, Pine Boughs and Flax now.  In the current Village, of Mossyrockle (I love that name) with both the pine set and CC Docks loaded, (Docks enabled after year 5)  I am in Year 8 and I have only a pine forest.  I have found a total of 20 Pine resin and 4 pelts in year 7, lots of Pine Boughs and Flax.
I've also noticed that the forester, gatherer and hunter of the Pine Set all find Pine Boughs now.  Is that weird?  Its year 8 and I'm adding in the Vanilla Forestry, Vanilla Gatherer, Vanilla Herbalist, Pine Hunter and Pine Trapper, all from the Pine set to give me some comparison.  Year 8 is over and there has been no resin, no pelts or furs but good amounts of pine boughs and flax.  I'll keep updating...
Year 9 and the newest Pine Trapper has found both Furs and Pelts, and in Year 10 has found them again, along with the 2 year old Vanilla Forester from the pine set also finding Furs.  No Furs, Pelts or Resin from the 10 year old Pine set items.
Year 16 and the first year's Pine Forester, Trapper Gatherer are still not finding ANY Pine Resin, or Pelts and Furs.  The eight year old Vanilla Groups is Still finding Fur and Pelts, so that's reassuring.
Year 15 - I added in the maple Forestry grouping and after two years am seeing Pelts and Furs. 
Year 19  - Added another Pine group
Year 24  - (Each group below has a Forester and Gatherer (Pine, Maple or Vanilla), and a Pine Hunter and Pine Trapper)
24 year old Pine Group producing only Pine Boughs Flax and Chanterelle, trapper is finding NO Furs/Pelts.
16 year old Vanilla grouping is fine, with Pelt, Fur all the gatherer's items, (no Flax)
9 year old Maple group is still finding Maple Sap and the trapper has found only 6 Furs no Pelts.
5 year old Pine Group hasn't found any Resin yet, Trapper has found Pelts and few Furs. 

i wouldn't call myself an expert.i have developed a system to the mod order over time that helps organize them.  some was listening to KRAY explain things @ CC.some was trial and error.even the order i have now is wrong. since the upgrade to 1.07,sometimes mods seem to interact more even 1's that shouldn't.my duck hunters are showing low production outputs. i figured out what mod it was but not i think it is 2 mods. neither mod had anything to do with ducks.my system does help narrow down where issues are but it isn't  foolproof.
      not to give you a hard time,but your order bugs me.i wrote up a page for doing mod orders and expalining how and why to it. you can sfind it under the tips and trick forums. a rework of your order might make different mods come to life more.
   
      let's try something easy though instead of re-doing the entire list.move the pine mod up above the maritime storage mod. click it so it throws it all the way to the top and then move it down from there is probably the fastest way.see it that 1 move will solve the issue.you can turn off the pine tree mod because you don't need both. it shouldn't be affecting the game though.

@adelegarland   SORRY you are still having issues. i do think at least some are due to the new floa mod.if you had the time i would recommend running a map with the flax patch and new flora disablled.just to compare your outputs.  i take it the foresters are set to plant and cut both?have you hit the log limit so he isn't cutting the trees and replanting new? if you have the extra pine tree mod,disable it. you only need the maritime pine set mod.otherwise make sure the sets of pine mods including the patches are close to the top of the mor order and above any other of NECORA's mods.

        i do know issues can be aggravating and hard to find sometimes. i had issues when i 1st started using this version.different issues than you all are having though.i ended up clearing my registry,stripped all the mods out,and re-did everything a few mods at a time.took a bout a week or so to rebuild my entire game.as it is it is working. never did figure out why i had issues and never could say it was another mod causing it.computers are strange sometimes.i did have more issues when i tried the nat div 2 mod but even after i took it out i had to re-do the entire game. not saying that you all need to do that. just saying i know how it can be when things don't work the way you hope.

Quote from: brads3 on September 20, 2017, 07:31:13 AM
@adelegarland   SORRY you are still having issues. i do think at least some are due to the new floa mod.if you had the time i would recommend running a map with the flax patch and new flora disablled.I will try that.just to compare your outputs.  i take it the foresters are set to plant and cut both?Yeshave you hit the log limit so he isn't cutting the trees and replanting new? not hitting limit, actually having trouble getting enough logs.if you have the extra pine tree mod,disable it. Don't use ityou only need the maritime pine set mod.otherwise make sure the sets of pine mods including the patches are close to the top of the mor order and above any other of NECORA's mods.Yup, they are all at the top

        i do know issues can be aggravating and hard to find sometimes. i had issues when i 1st started using this version.different issues than you all are having though.i ended up clearing my registry,stripped all the mods out,and re-did everything a few mods at a time.took a bout a week or so to rebuild my entire game.as it is it is working. never did figure out why i had issues and never could say it was another mod causing it.computers are strange sometimes.i did have more issues when i tried the nat div 2 mod but even after i took it out i had to re-do the entire game. not saying that you all need to do that. just saying i know how it can be when things don't work the way you hope.

thanks - will keep updating. I know I'm not the only one with this problem, but I will keep testing so that we all can figure it out.

Quote from: brads3 on September 20, 2017, 07:07:18 AM
let's try something easy though instead of re-doing the entire list.move the pine mod up above the maritime storage mod

But it already is above it.

EDIT: I've just noticed that my load order is actually different with that I have posted earlier.  ::)

Quote from: Gatherer on September 20, 2017, 02:46:41 PM
EDIT: I've just noticed that my load order is actually different with that I have posted earlier.  ::)

And I've just checked the instructions in the Create sorted list of Banished mods topic. I'm doing everything right and the final result is different from reality. >:(

Ok guys, just to let you know I have been keeping up with this conversation but right now I don't have time to test things because I have a manuscript I really want to get finished for work.

That being said, after looking over some things, I don't see how this is a mod-compatibility issue because the files we are talking about are very specific to the Pine Set, and so should not be interfered with in anyway by other mods. Also, this seems to be an intermittent issue, not a flat out nothing being produced issue, which means a compatibility issue is low. One thing that would be worth checking is that any storage mods you have were made using the new storage limits we were given.

Either the items are not being spawned, or they are not being stored. Make sure that you have plenty of the correct storage areas for textiles (fur and pelts) and for materials (resin) otherwise they will not be picked up from the ground if the stores are full/non existent. If for example textile storage is full, I don't think you will be warned about this by the game, I don't think the storage warnings have been improved despite the game changes. If increasing these storage areas suddenly you get a boom in these resources then that is why, you have plenty of appropriate storage, then the reason is due to the spawn things I talk about below. If so, I will try to make a quick patch at some point for you to test and see if it changes anything.

@Gatherer the pick up button is a good idea, however it won't necessarily help with this issue if the items are not showing up on the map.

Quote from: adelegarland on September 19, 2017, 07:21:33 AM
I hope my efforts are helpful, not annoying.  :)

Of course helpful, I don't want people struggling this much to get resources!

Quote from: Gatherer on September 20, 2017, 03:08:56 PMI'm doing everything right and the final result is different from reality.

I struggle(d) with this too... I found sth probably related to the quirky registry - normally you load up all mods to be used in the beginning, and your reg is in order... if you however load additional mods at a later point (as many of us probably do), the reg becomes confused - it will start tagging ModsEnabled as FALSE even if they are properly enabled (and work fine in-game). From that point on, printed lists show things "different from reality"...  ::)

Quote from: Necora on September 20, 2017, 04:13:03 PM
Ok guys, just to let you know I have been keeping up with this conversation but right now I don't have time to test things because I have a manuscript I really want to get finished for work.

That being said, after looking over some things, I don't see how this is a mod-compatibility issue because the files we are talking about are very specific to the Pine Set, and so should not be interfered with in anyway by other mods. Also, this seems to be an intermittent issue, not a flat out nothing being produced issue, which means a compatibility issue is low. One thing that would be worth checking is that any storage mods you have were made using the new storage limits we were given.

Either the items are not being spawned, or they are not being stored. Make sure that you have plenty of the correct storage areas for textiles (fur and pelts) and for materials (resin) otherwise they will not be picked up from the ground if the stores are full/non existent. If for example textile storage is full, I don't think you will be warned about this by the game, I don't think the storage warnings have been improved despite the game changes. If increasing these storage areas suddenly you get a boom in these resources then that is why, you have plenty of appropriate storage, then the reason is due to the spawn things I talk about below. If so, I will try to make a quick patch at some point for you to test and see if it changes anything.

@Necora  Me again,  I've been testing this mod and removed the flora and flax mods.  without them and with several storage facilities, 10,000 limits on all resources  and a full compliment of gatherers and workers, there is still a lack of resources - The pine resin begins production in the 7th to 8th year and around the 10th year stops. I've seen no more resin  for up to 23 years (at which point I quit and try again).  The same with the pelts and furs, showing up from year 6 - 7 and lasting till about year 10.  The Maple sap from the maple forester seems to be showing a similar trend.  I am testing that now.
Perhaps more workers for each building, 4 foresters, 3 or 4 gatherers at each gathering building, 3 or 4 hunters, trappers, etc.   It might help....  Perhaps they are set too low in their production amounts. 
I'll keep testing and let you know what I find with the Maple sap.
Thanks for keeping up with this. 

can we see a list of your mod order?
     only suggestion i have is to take the mods back out,completely clear the registry, and then put mods back in a few at a time starting with the pine mod and run tests.tedius and time consuming task. to "test" i would use the debug to set the foresters and enough buildings for the bannies to function and let the game run for several years.took me about a week to do that with mine. i added mods back in groups of 5-10 so i could narrow down any problems.

@brads3
OK Here is my Load Order, I see some errors, duplicating mods, ineffective mods... Those are in the end of the load order, and not likely to be the issue.  Please look it over and see what you think.

wow that is a long list. more than mine by a ton.1st step is to go to WOB  tips and tricks and read my write-up on mod order. your list is messed up if that is the way the game loads.several start condition mods are way down in the order.have you ever cleared the registry??? some old old mods did not let go even when they were deleted from the WINDATA folder. i ask because with so many mods ,i wonder if you tested others also.
         you can try a trick before you redo the entire mod order.open the WINDATA folder and take every mod out,just throw them in a folder on the desktop so you can find them again.then put the pine mod in and run the game.the game will remember the mod order as you have it but since those mods are not in the WINDATA folder it will  not load them.you will not have to enable and restart the game with this trick. you can use the debug and quick build foresters,houses,etc to save time. then let it run several years to see how the production is with just the pine mod.if the numbers are no better than dump the registry and add the mods back in a few at a time after reading my instruction page.if the pine mod does show improvements and good outputs,try adding any mods that you feel are causing the issue.run a test and see if they affect the production any.
     i did redo my registry and reload every mod back in,took me about a week doing like 5 or so at a time.it is a tedious and time consuming task.
     i hope you find the error before going that far.

That is an incredible mod list!

But, I think I've lost some of the conversation here, why are we talking about mod lists? I really don't think it is a mod compatibility issue... I have some time this morning and am testing things through to see if I can come up with a solution. I think the main issue is relating to how I changed the spawn chances and age to maturity of the spawned resources. Evidently, it isn't as easy as changing 1 number and having the desired effect, lots of lines in the code seem to interact somehow and so changing one leads to un-forseen impacts on others. I'm currently trying a few things out and will let you know if I get anywhere.

@Necora I think you may be on to something...   I have used these mods for  long time in the list they are in and they haven't had a problem.  But i can try fiddling with it,
@brads3 I don't have the debug, Where do I get it?  And how do I clear the registry?

I have a debug mod.
It looks like a beetle (bug) on the main toolbar. I put it there for easy access.

@Necora  would it help if I gave you a copy of the year by year production of Resin Eggs Game Pelts and Furs?  I'm seeing a similar problem with the Maple sap. 

what is odd is i don't seem to have the problem. that is why i try helping them find the issue since i can't see it being the mod itself.i have seen mods do funny thngs since the upgrade to 1.07. i have a few that affect my CC duck blinds. the mods have nothing in them that deals with ducks though.since the upgrade there are issues where the progam pulls from 2 different mods or more and mixes something up. i know it isn't suppose to be able to do that but there is weird issues now and then. if it was the mod itself i would think we would all have the same issue.i am using several behind the screen fix or help mods.maybe 1 of those is helping more than i know.gremlins like to hide and they is very good at it.

@brads3 I think you may be using an older version, is it the Beta?

@adelegarland sure, can't hurt. I've attached a spreadsheet with my numbers from this morning, but so far only for about 6 years of forestry. I've included all of the code numbers too so you can see how much each thing produces/the chance of it occurring. I should have done this from the beginning, but never thought about it. This sheet should help balance things out a bit more.

Edit - can't upload .xlsx so here is a link... https://mega.nz/#!8bYSQLKR!pWo_4fAFYt46ANg3mrNjt4pCBYFF45Gu6Z-5cSDHDsM

mine is the newest 1 cause my foresters will collect game and clear traps. and the others can collect eggs not just clear nests also.

@adelegarland  can you check something,please? are your trees growing or are you cutting them too fast and they never mature?is there a way you can set 1 forester to just plant and not cut and check to see if that forester produces better?

@brads3  Already tried that, no difference.

@adelegarland I have been playing around with this lately, and while I never got to the stage that certain things were not being produced, the variability was very high and the outputs rather low, even for mature forests. So I made some changes to the spawn numbers, which in the tests I have done since make things a bit more accessible, but not too easy either.

I've updated the pine set to V105 with these changes, and a few others. Have a go and see if it is better.

@Necora Is there another way to download the update? I keep getting an error just a few MBs before the download completes.

So beautiful! I am hoping to keep it working long enough to play a game and build with it lol;) Are the new forests more demanding on the graphics? I hope this rather dumb question is still okay lol, I'm happy to lower my graphics a bit in order to enjoy the new trees and buildings. Right now my screen drags a bit even at the start of a game with only this mod enabled. That may be my older computer lol.

Is this set compatible with Kid's Colonials sets of buildings? Has anyone tried to include this mod along with DS's Small Village set? I'm hoping as people play with these Maritime sets that they will post notes on which other community mods do well with them and which don't. In some cases I would just love to be able to plant a few of the new foresters and their trees in other games, even if I don't plan to depend on the resources, more as adding diversity to more vanilla games.

Just to confirm: vanilla foresters only plant/cut vanilla trees, and the new Pine/Maple foresters only plant/cut their specialty trees?

And do vanilla or other modded storage options also store these new resources, or is it best to make sure to build particular ones for these new resources?

Also, are any of these new resources and products used by trading posts? If so, can you recommend a particular load order for that? Or a particular trading post? Or is it best to just use the vanilla along with the fix mod? I am having horrible trouble with trading posts of all kinds, including vanilla and including the fix mod for 1.07. I have yet to find a stable load order and way to incorporate the vanilla and the additional trading posts from the various mods. If there was a debug/cheat way to get livestock into my games, I'd probably quit building any trading posts at all lol, I have come to dread the arriving boats along the river!

 hmmmm,where do i start? define "drag"? mine is slower with mods than what i see people play when i watched some video's. it is stable though. my 10x speed setting is probly what some players is at 3 or 5x.when i tried the nat div 2 mod it slowed down to where the bannies were hopping instead of walking.what is your RAM? there are some tricks. turn off the autosaves. you can try playing with shadows and graphic settings.  i would open the task manager and turn off any program or service that you don't need.you do not need the maritme tree mod if using the maritime pine set. the trees is included with the pine set.
    as far as i know most mods work with the pine mod.the new flora mod has a patch to make it work.the nat div 2 is knopwn to have issues that will slow down the game overall. as far as traders this is trial and error.i have trade posts from mods that are not upgraded yet.same with markets and storage.EB made a new market set for the 1.07. i would try not to fill the general storage pile.if it gets full you might notice the bannies can't clear land.
1.06 mods still work but be aware that they are picky about what they will store. they will not store the new items.that being said a 1.07 modded storage should store most items.
    i use CC so i have more options when it comes to storage and trading posts. if you find issues please let us know.the pine set does have some good storage and markets with it to help.they may not suit all towns but are handy near the forests.if you like the colonial then you will want the sherbrooke mod.
      you can use the debuig mod and that does have buttons to give you all the seeds and the livestock.1 button allows you to have them all and 1 button will add the livestock to available pastures,

@Gatherer is it just this you are having trouble with or do you have trouble with MEGA in general? I know other modders use MEGA, do you have the same issues downloading those? If it is a MEGA issue, what other file sharing platform works for you? I had to take them off Drive and Dropbox because I didn't have enough space, I use them for other things but can put things back onto which ever of those works best as an alternative download.

@gatinho65, @brads3 has covered it pretty well. There may well be a bit of a speed lag with the trees. I tried to keep the triangle count down as much as I could. I always found the main cause of lag is shadows, so when I have a big map/bustling town I usually turn the shadows off then turn them back on for screen shots or to have an occasional look around.
As for mods, the only issues I know of are the ones I posted here. It should work with all others, but if it doesn't let me know and I'll try to find a way to make it or at least inform people about it.

All pine resources will come in the traders. However, traders are not too easy to make work well with new resources because it is hard to control what they bring, so it is a case of waiting and hoping for the livestock I'm afraid. I know that is frustrating. You might want to try looking if there are any specialty trade posts out there. I know CC had a livestock and seed trader, and others. I am thinking about doing a set of them myself to fit in with the fisheries buildings.

All resources will be stored in Vanilla barns and stock piles. But one thing to watch out for is that I have noticed that the warning messages for stock piles/storage being full do not work properly since the updates to the game.

And yup, the vanilla forester will cut/plant the trees already on the map, and the other two will only deal with their own tree set.

@brad: lol my computer isn't ancient but not really a gaming computer, and my 10x speed is the bannies at a brisk walk, nothing like the frantic ants on youtube videos lol. 5x speed is a normal walking pace for the bannies, and what I usually play, lets me micromanage and enjoy watching them. The speeds do not change for me no matter what my screen resolution is, so I don't think its that, I just assumed it was something about the mac translation through wine. If I played at 1x, I'd probably die of old age before my first trading post crash lol;)

I don't have anything running in the background and I usually don't have the internet connected to prevent google's constant spying updates on my computer lol while playing the game, they can do that later when I'm online.

About the stockpiles: I'm glad you mentioned that! I only have BetterStockPiles enabled, I don't use the BetterStockPileStorage mod, I suppose I should. But in that case, do I ALWAYS use those only, and not the vanilla generic stockpile? I have noticed issues with the vanilla pile in the game I'm playing now with all the DS sets enabled. And whenever any mod, like DS, has a Remove Building icon, I assume I need to use that one with anything created that comes from the mod? When it came to the stockpiles, I used the vanilla Remove icon, didn't want to confuse the game anymore than already lol.

With the debug livestock button: I built a pasture, a fenceless one included in DS's mod, and clicked the button and nothing happened. Does that mean I can only use that debug button with a vanilla pasture? That is fine, that would allow me to avoid trading post issues if I want. I guess I couldn't figure out how to get the button to plop down the animal of my choice even after I built the pasture lol.

Sherbrooke is beautiful, all the Maritime stuff is beautiful, and I really want to play with them, but so far I've just wanted to load only the Pine Set and the New Flora/NatDiv/Flax patch to see if it works long enough to actually build a map with the buildings lol;)

So, in that combination above, Pine Set, New Pine Flora, Flax Patch, NatDiv combination, do I use NatDiv Light OR NatDivFull?

On a side note: I have a great collection of xfrog plants from back in my SimCity modding creation days, and it seems like it is quite possible to export them into a format suitable for Banished, I'm happy to send some to anyone who would love to add more flora to the game and has xfrog or a 3dmodeling software program that can import xfrog models. I'm not sure I have a 3dsMax install on this computer now, so I don't think I could already export them into a different format, I've changed computers several times since then but did keep all my xfrog files, too valuable and useful for hopeful future modding adventures lol! I'd certainly love to see a few choices to add to a Mission/Tequila game lol.

@Necora: just saw your post, thanks for the clarifications! And I will see if my shadow settings make a difference, I think I have both on low but I need to check.

i ment a generic pile that stores everythihng. i try to not let it get full just in case there is something that the game won't store anywhere else. you can use either natdiv but the newest version is known to slow comps down. the earlier version and the lite mod both work ok.glad you are having better luck.

@gatinho65 either Nat Div should work fine, and they look spectacular together. I usually use the full Nat Div. I'm not sure about load order, I'd put nat div on top but IIRC it doesn't matter.

What output does xfrog produce? If it can be imported into blender I wouldn't mind having a look at them, more decorative flora is always welcome.

@Necora: I can get Pine Set to load and play as long as its on its own. But so far I can't get it to load with NatDiv of either form regardless of load order, it crashes before it even gets to the reloaded screen.

xfrog plants are used by all the big 3d modeling softwares so I think it can be exported as just about anything, if you have xfrog lol. Xfrog software itself is expensive (all of them are, aren't they lol) but I don't think it is necessary. If you just have the plant files it takes more research on which of the other software types can import xfrog files and make them useable. If you have 3dsMax or Maya its very easy.

I have seen some videos on how to import xfrog plants into blender so I certainly think others have tried that and hopefully succeeded. I have always added my own textures as the ones that come with the xfrog plants seem harder to get working in the non-xfrog 3dmodeling software.

Xfrog distributes a lot of beautiful free plant models, always worth making sure you pay attention and grab them when you see them! I have lots and lots of them lol, so when I get a chance I can remind myself of the libraries I have so you can ask for something specific. I know I have a lot of mediterranean/african/desert/exotic stuff because that was what I was working on for my SimCity stuff. Eucalyptus, various warm climate pines, and definitely enough plants for a great addition to the Mission/Tequila mods, Joshua trees and cactus and ocotillo. But I am sure I have a lot of smaller plants that would fit more with what you are already creating. In fact I think some of the deco plants already here in various mods are xfrog models, they look very familiar lol.

the problem with specially XFrog is they way have too much polygons
you cant have in game an item with 30,000-120,000 poly multiplied by 100x-1000x of those items around all the map.

@Red: Yeah, that has always been the challenge, some 3d software has ways of 'translating' the xfrog plants that reduce polygons but it takes some work to maintain a good quality but make it usable for a game using them. In SimCity as long as you could render your plant, you could then just create the image of it in the game, which didn't require all the polygons, or something like that lol, I remember knowing how to get it work. I don't know anything yet about Banished, I don't think the mod kit even works on a mac. But I was hoping some of my saved resources would be interesting for people who have the means to experiment.

I got Pine Set to load and run, all by itself. It does not load, only crash, with both versions of NatDiv enabled, regardless of load order. It also crashes within minutes of a new game even just with the DS Small village housing, and crashes before loading any of the DS production sets or individual mods like DS Ale House. I was trying those only because those are the mods I've been playing with this week. I'm hoping no problem with other Maritime sets or some of Kids sets. I will experiment tomorrow.

My 10x speed took a full 58 minutes of time to cover 1 year of Banished time lol! That is at every level of resolution and with high or low shadows. Its noticeably slower than my other games but watching an old forest of the magnificent trees and undergrowth for that hour at high resolution and with high shadow settings was mesmerizing! This is definitely a set that for me would be about relaxing and watching the bannies do their thing lol, it would take weeks and weeks for any town to actually develop for me lol, and no worries about disasters or missing something, endless time for micromanagement. I love the buildings too, I plopped them all in debug mode, mostly I'm running the game to see how the various forests interact from the three towers. It will take over 6-7 hours of game time for me to see the first mature maple forest lol, but I want to know what it looks like for that future time of sap collection;)

I have no idea how much of this is due to running the game on a mac through wine, just thought I'd note it for any interested.

Edit: More research notes lol. Pine Set is only playable on my computer all by itself and lasted for over an hour, no crash so far;) The only successful additions so far are the Maritime Decorations and Maritime Storage, which don't crash the game within the first 5 minutes, hopefully not later. Otherwise, it will not even load without a crash any of the other Maritime mods, not a single one of them in addition. That is as a clean start each time and with each one individually. Pine Set also will not play for more than about 3 minutes with Kid's Colonial Housing without crashing. It will not even load Colonial Production, so perhaps any other mod with production causes issues. Perhaps Sherbrooke will be able to work all by itself like Pine Set. Loading order made no difference, I tried up and down and all around lol.

It is always a wine issue, something within the way wine is processing the PC parts of the game, so not my mac per se. I can run the vanilla game and some of the other mods on the highest settings without any problem (except the recurring trading post crashes lol) so I don't think its a graphics or processing power issue. SimCity is a much more demanding game and I can still play that until my population gets too huge lol, but that has always been the case with SimCity on many very decent computers. Perhaps this is a common mac problem when playing multiple mods at the same time through a wine setup with Banished.

In any case, very beautiful stuff;) My early Holiday gift to myself is (hopefully) a decent cheap games only PC and then I look forward to a lot easier experimenting with Banished mods;)

@RedKetchup I looked through the catalog last night and figured that would be the case by the detail of the trees. Still, they might make for good textures if you render them.

@gatinho65 I booted up the game and got the same insta crashes with only Pine Set and Nat Div 1.0.1 loaded. However, I also managed to make them work. You need to try the following, which is a long winded but common practice when loading mods in Banished.

1 - load the game (but don't start a map, stay on the main menu).
2 - select the mods you wish to use.
3 - quit the game.
4 - reload the game.
5 - play!

It seems if you shuffle mods around, but don't quit then reload the game before starting a map, errors occur. In the case of my test, I already had Pine Set activated but not Nat Div even though it was loaded in my mod list. So I activated Nat Div, de-activated everything else apart from Debug and Pine Set, then quit the game and reloaded. Then when you play, it should work fine. The load order for me was Pine Set on top followed by Nat Div below it. I ran it for a year or two and cleared a load of resources with no crashes.

So try this, and do the same when you add other mods. It is probably best not to load mods during a game - certainly this will not work for the Pine Set of Nat Div because they change things spawned on the map and will crash, but others that just add buildings etc. should be fine.

I've not tried with any other mods, I don't have a vast collection because my internet sucks and I can barely download stuff. I will try a few others.

Test two, I did the above technique and loaded up all of the mods I have available, so my mod list looks like this...

• Play Conditions
• Flax Patch
• New Pine Flora
• New Flora
• Pine Set
• Nat Div
• Port Royal
• Maritimes Log Cabins
• Maritimes Humble Construction
• Maritimes Coverings
• Maritimes PEI Inshore
• Maritimes Dock Set
• Maritimes Storage
• Maritimes Decorations
• An Empty Square
• EB Natural Irrigation System
• Debug Menu
• Gridlines Beta 2
• Norseman
• Better Stock Piles
• CC Dock Set
• Maritimes Riffle
• Crystal Cliffs
• Sherbrooke Village
• NS Inshore Fisheries

After the load, mods, quit, load, play routine I had no issues with crashes and built random buildings from each set, they all worked fine. It wasn't a comprehensive test, but there were no immediate issues to see.

Now, I never had a problem with switching mods around once they had been loaded using this routine in the past, however my crashes with the Nat Div even though it was already in the mod list might stem from the fact that I have not used it since the game updated, therefore it probably needed to be activated and 'set' in game. Now, it shouldn't be a problem to switch most mods around without exiting and starting again, or even to add mods to a game mid flight (I can add in things like sherbrooke and crystal cliffs mid game without any issues once they have been initially 'set').

Let me know how it goes, hopefully this resolves a lot of your crash issues.

i think the arguement of loading mods without complete exit and reload may be sysytem dependant. players with more powerful computers might just enable mods and play.personally i rather the safe way. if i forget this system at times will wait til i try to save the game before it erros out.a mod that affects more like the nat div mod,will dump you with a fatal error more than not.it might as NECORA found,play for a while and then error and dump you when you try to save the game.so you have an hour or 2 playtime and then poof all gone. that is not what you want to do.when in doubt,better safe than sorry.
      when adding mods to a saved game, i would recommend trying to save the game once it reloads with the new mod.if it throws you out,you haven't lost playtime yet.
     NECORA's chart is exactly what we try to recommend new players do.that list solves many erros that get reported.

Lol wow I'm envious of that wonderful mod load list! All my testing was done with 1-3 mods at a time, after emptying the WinData, deleting the registry items, loading the mods, enabling, exiting, restarting, then finally starting a new game. My WinData had only worked with:

NewLimitVanillaTP
MaritimesPineSet
MaritimesStorage
MaritimesLogCabins
MaritimesDecorations
Debug

And that's it! I added each of the other Maritimes mods like Sherbrooke and Crystal Cliffs and the various shoreline and dock sets, one at a time, and none of them will work with PineSet, every single new game crashed before even starting.

I have never gotten this next combo to run for more than 10 minutes, even if it actually loads without crashing:

FlaxPatch
NewPineFlora
NewFlora
PineSet
NatDiv
(no other mods at all other than these)

No other mod from anybody else, housing or production, worked with PineSet, I tried mostly Kid's Colonial stuff and DS Small Village.

I also got this combo to work:

CCTerrains
NewLimitVanillaTP
NewFlora
MaritimesTrees
NatDiv (the full version)
MaritimesLogCabins
MaritimesDecorations
KidDecoPlants
EBIrrigationDecoAddon
Debug
FlyFishing
SmokingShed (but it won't smoke the lovely trout caught by the FlyFishing lol)
iSeeFire

My longest list of mods that worked well for a long very fun game was:

CCTerrains
EBOrchard20TreesOveride
NewFlora
NatDiv
KidForestOutpost
KidVegetableGardenStart
KidColonialHousing
KidColonialResources
KidWorkPlace
KidStorageCarts
KidTinySeparate
KidMarketFood
KidYardCover
KidBakeryGarden
BostonHouse
KidSBVMission
KidTequilaMod
KidTequilaModAddon
KidWildWest
iSeeFire
KidGhostedCactus
KidWashingMod
Debug

The success of that first grouping was what made me think of trying more of the mods. I finally, after a lot of constantly recleaning and restarting registry and WinData, got this list to play for 12 game years so far, during which time I had a lot of problems with the trading post but otherwise worked well for the rest of the game. I enabled and disabled NewVanillaTP hoping it would help with trading post issues but enabling it was actually worse, not sure why.

CCTerrains
BetterStockPiles
DSSmallVillageHomes
DSWagonVender
DSAleHouse
DSSmallVillageProduction
DSSmallVillageServices
DSSmallVillageStorage
DSStoneHovels
DSBridgeCrossing
DSJettyAndBridge
DSTownHouses
iSeeFire
KidWashingMod

And although Paeng has not had any problems adding/enabling a new mod to an existing game, that doesn't work for me, almost always a crash at the point where I want to save the new game even if it has been playing well after loading the new mod. So, I will have to be sure to enable every mod that I want to use throughout the game right at the start of the new game.

Between each test or new grouping of mods, I clean out the WinData, delete all the old mod related registry items, then start from scratch. I add only 1 or 2 mods at a time, enable, exit, restart the game, open up a new game. That way I'm hoping to see which of the mods might cause a problem. So each of the lists above was made after testing each mod at a time once I've added it to the list. Its very slow lol! But I'm now keeping much better notes so I can remember and not have to repeat tests. So when I actually got to play a longer game with the full list, that was after all the tests, usually about 25-30 minutes running 10x speed and plopping everything with the debug.

So I figure this approach is giving me as much info as I can about what will work in my game. Mostly so far I've been trying to see what combinations work for the longest without running into so many crashes that its no longer fun to play the game.

The only 'draggy' game was the first load group above, with PineSet being the star player. Super beautiful and I don't mind the slower pace, which was the same no matter how much I fiddled with resolutions and other settings. Otherwise, I think my computer handles the graphics at the high end very well.

Just for masochistic fun lol, I will try to actually load the necora's list and see what happens;) However, I don't know what Play Conditions is although it is listed first. Is that an old mod not in the 1.07 list?

Edit: If anybody has played with similar combinations and sees something about the load order that might cause problems, let me know, these are the load orders I have used based on whatever info I noticed about the mod.

since the game works some of the time and is more likely to not work with more mods,i would think it is RAM memeory related.each mod needs a little more memory for the game to function and you keep reaching the limit. once you go past it then it dumps you.this might also cause the issues with the trade posts.only thing i can recommend is to use the task manager to turn off progams you aren't using while playing the game.

Interesting. I'll try to download some of the mods you have there and see if it works.

One thing, you don't need the NewLimitVanillaTP if you have any of the maritimes mods, changes to the vanilla trade post from the 1.0.7 BETA should be included in them and as far as I am aware it hasn't changed since the game came out of BETA.

Ignore Play Conditions - that is just something I whipped up for myself. It takes away the ground texture of the orchard and cemetery, changes the texture of the crop field, takes away the wall of the cemetery and fence of the pasture, and makes the cemetery, crop field, pasture, and orchard build-able on all slopes that bannies can walk on, and adds the disable pick up button to the orchard and crop field.

The first two lists are strange. Crystal Cliffs and Sherbrooke work fine for me, and I don't think I have re-compiled them since the new mod kit was released. I certainly have not made any changes to them since they were last released on here, so I'm not sure why they would be crashing out on you. I also don't see why the second list should not work, they worked fine when I tested them earlier, and I know that Nat Div hasn't been updated since the full game release.

Have you tried the Maritimes stuff without the Pine Set?

I have also noticed a few crashes with the vanilla trade post, usually when a certain boat arrives but I can never know what boat it is because I don't get to see it, it crashes when it docks. It hasn't happened with the inshore trade post yet though.

The ram thing that brads mentions might be worth looking into. I've no experience with this though, and I also have no experience using modding/banished on a mac. Perhaps it is something to do with that?

Quote from: brads3 on September 30, 2017, 12:05:08 PMi would think it is RAM memeory related.

Hmmm... Well, if you really have very little ram, you could try the Razer Cortex suite, specially Razer Cortex: Boost... Once it's set up, you get a menu with all your installed games and can start the booster plus any game with just 1 click... highly configurable.

https://www2.razerzone.com/cortex/boost

QuoteRazer Cortex: Boost improves your PC's performance by managing and killing processes and apps you don't need while gaming (like business apps and background helpers). This frees up valuable resources and RAM needed by games, resulting in higher frames per second and smoother gaming performance.

When you launch your game, Cortex: Boost automatically kicks in. And when you're done gaming, boost auto-restores your computer back to the state it was before. Even if you launch your game from Steam, Origin, or your desktop, your system will still conveniently auto-boost.

* In my setup, it frees about 400Mb ram...

Ha I'm glad I'm not the only one who sometimes has issues with the vanilla TD lol, I try to anticipate the boat season so I can watch it carefully and SAVE before it crashes lol;) I have the VanillaTP fix in the folder in case one of the mods I load doesn't include the vanilla fixes, I need to keep notes on which ones do. Would there be a conflict if a mod's TP fixes and the generic fix are both enabled?

Anyway, a very happy update! First an apology to anyone who gets anxious if they read my rambles about the issues; this has so much more to do with playing on a mac I think than anything wrong with these beautiful mods.

I decided to really start over and reinstall the game, using a more recent but perhaps less stable version of wine. I usually go conservative with everything software related, stable is usually better than new and shiny lol;) But in this case, a very big difference so far!

I started off right away loading the big whammy of Flax Patch, New Pine, New Flora, Pine Set, and NatDiv full. Just as a what the heck, and it all loaded quick and easy! And I'm running a debug game at 10x plopping things to keep the bannies alive as I mostly watch to see if anything happens or if there are crashes. And I saved several times, as sometimes it is only at saving that I get a crash. So far so good, game is just over 1 bannie year old.

Only 30+ minutes for a bannie year at 10x speed instead of an hour, so that is new and different lol. The game is at max settings for resolution and shadows, just because lowering all the settings made no difference in anything, so I figure it isn't my graphics, it really was something more to do with the wine build running the game.

I may go full crazy and load up the whole Maritime list as above lol, just to see what happens.

I think abandoned started a mac specific thread, which is where I will post these types of things in the future lol. And again thanks to all those in the threads who have been generous with tips and advice and patient with my questions;)

@Paeng: I will look into that ram thing, see if that works for mac as well. I have lots of ram, and when I check what's running background its very minimal, especially as I disconnect from the web whenever I actually play the game, and often its just web browser stuff that is the background noise. So hopefully my issues will be more related to wine and just plain boring running the pc game on my mac.

hmm too much wine. try playing sober and see if you do better. ;D

LOL @brads3   ;D

Necora (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4733), I tried using the Pine Set, and liked many things about it, but it slowed my game way too much.  On 10 speed, it was like only being 2 speed.   Is there any way you might figure out some fix for this so I can use it with the game speed running normally?

@galensgranny thanks for the feed back, and sorry it slowed the game down so much. The reason is the trees and the detail in them. One quick fix is to disable shadows for general play then turn them on when you want to have a look around/take screen shots. This is how I play, even before I started modding, this is the only way I could get CC working at a decent clip.

A more permanent fix would be to re-do all the trees. I have limited time to mod lately, but I did make some new maple trees for something else I want to do. They are about 1/3 the polys, and look fantastic in Blender. Unfortunately, I can't see how they look in game because it crashes constantly when trying to load them up, something to do with the material used that makes the leaves appear/disappear with the seasons. I don't know why it is crashing, whether I am forgetting something or have done something wrong or perhaps something has changed with the latest mod kit that I am unaware of but extensive searches through code and comparisons with previous files from the trees I made a year ago and the provided example have given me no answers (in fact, all files are pretty much the same apart from new models and textures, I copied both the old trees and example files and changed just the model/texture, which I cannot see any issue with). Anyhow, this and a string of other annoyances/crashes with the mod kit have really put me off modding for the game, at least for the time being while I have little time to spend modding let alone trying to solve issues.

I'll try turning off shadows.  I hope that helps as I do want to use your pine set.   I never thought about making changes in the game options.

That is a real bummer that the game keeps crashing when you are trying to mod the trees.

I hope you don't quit modding altogether.  Maybe do things that don't involve trees.  :)

Necora (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4733), your tip to turn off shadows worked!!  :D :D   This is so great!  Now the bannies are zooming all over the place in your Pine world.  The maple trees don't look as good as they did with shadows on, but a lot of them are just being chopped down so it's all good.  Thanks again for that simple tip that made such a big difference.

did you try playing with the other options? you can turn the shadows to medium,change the DirectX,etc. if it worked that well,maybe there is a middle ground that will be better. i think disabling autosaves helps also.

I haven't changed other things, brad3.  I will play around with combinations of the shadow quality and shadow texturing to find one that looks the best while the bannies will still zoom around on 10 speed.  Have you ever changed the antialiasing and texture filtering?

Been playing with this lately.  Read through the whole thread and thought I would add that I ran into the problem of certain gatherables not showing up after a point for years on end.  Ran some tests and found that with 3 workers on the pine and maple foresters (set to cut+plant and not hitting wood limit) it seems to outpace the trees maturing enough to spawn those gathered resources.  Turning it down to 2 workers each seemed to fix the problem with a slight hit to wood production.

Question...I can't for the life of me figure out how the pine tavern works.  I've made both cider and whiskey next to it and both get deposited in storage.  Tavern window shows like a barn...No assignable workers...but nothing seems to go there.  Am I missing something?

So I isolated the Pine set and tested the tavern again.  Whiskey goes there and is consumed there.  Couldn't tell that Cider does, so I'm assuming that gets consumed at the press.  Apparently what was happening before was the small barn from one of the other Maritimes modules was nearby and it was going there instead of the Tavern since it accepts luxuries flag.  Which is handy, because there are so few storage options for luxuries but with no worker at the Tavern, not sure how it ever makes it out of there unless you pull it to a tradepost.

Would have tested further except I wound up with back to back years of no maple sap production (along with apples and pine resin at the other node).  I thought I had that lapse figured out with the 2 foresters per tower but apparently not.  Didn't test it but the only thing I can think of to work around that is to have lots of them and alternate cut/plant and just plant till they start producing again.

@Maldrick - I've been fighting this problem for months    after a few good years of gathering the maple sap and the pine resin, they stop and no more is found for 10 or more years,  same with Fur and Pelts...   I think the numbers got tweaked in the last update of this and never got fixed.     I stopped trying to use sap and resin and ignore that whole production chain.   I keep hoping Necora will fix it...   

i've not seen that issue since i use 1 worker on each forester normally. in testing this mod i remember it takes a few years to get the trees established and weed out the vanilla trees.takes 5-8 years before the trees are mature enough to get the pine mod items. overcutting would have the same results.be advised, NECORA did up the size of these trees and therefore the wood outputs.yes with less workers you will get less wood but you are still getting more than a vanilla forester. the radius is also smaller than a vanilla forester.

When I ran the tavern test I placed them in in existing forest and was thinking that was the problem.  Just ran another on clear ground and the same thing happens, it's just a bit smoother.  It takes about 5 years for everything to get up and running, runs fine for about 3, then apples, sap, resin, and furs take a vacation for a few years.

Also noticing wood production has a wild variance, too.  With 2 workers the specialized foresters hover around 300 logs per year, occasionally spiking up to around 400, the vanilla version with 3 fluctuates between 300 and 500ish.  Which I guess on the high end is about on par with the actual vanilla forester which gives 700 to 800 with 4 workers. That's a wicked variance though.

Might try it with 1 worker in the specialized ones, since you mention it. Can't help but think the forestry is getting ahead of the gathering.  If that works those nodes could be dedicated to gathering and then just make up for it with more of the vanilla version.  In theory at least.

1 worker on the special foresters definitely seems to be the way to go.  The crazy variances are still there and wood production takes a major hit but everything else produces more and haven't seen any years where anything wasn't produced since switching over.  That works.

Noticed the hunter has a wild variance too. Anywhere from 200 to 600 venison per year.

are you adding in the extras that they gather too? the forester should be checking traps now and then. same with the gatherer or jst laborers as they clear land as well. i try to get 500 food per worker rather it be farms,hunting,fishing,or gatherers.  the set did that. the trapper doesn't but then you have to figure the higher trade value of the coats.

Hello everybody. @Maldrick apologies the sets were giving you issues, but I think you nailed it with having 1 worker being optimal for each building in the forest areas. Originally, I only allowed 1 worker per building, but people wanted more so I didn't think that would be an issue. But, with the reduced radius, extra items added to the forests and playing around with growth dynamics of different items, this meant that with too much resource extraction (trees) the other items would not work. But, that is kinda what I was going for... if you cut down the forests too much then the mature forest items don't grow there. You are best off making more forest nodes next to each other, rather than increasing the cut rate of trees per node (i.e. more workers per forest tower). Now, with the reduced radius, you also have the benefit of being able to place houses and storage closer to the work buildings making it more efficient. As for the variability, smaller radius will make this more noticeable. I did increase wood per tree compared to vanilla to try to soften the blow on that.

Now, I do want to improve the forest dynamics, which is why I was thinking of re-doing the trapper chain. Moving the trapper chain to another layer rather than in the forest will help in terms of less spawning items. It will take me some time to get it done though.

As for the tavern, it should accept alcohol for consumption and both cider and whiskey should be consumed there. I always thought that a bannie would take alcohol from a storage place and consume it at the tavern? Perhaps I got this wrong and need to add a worker to the tavern. I do remember CC having some issues with luxuries storage but will have to trawl through the forums to find it.

I will try one worker in the forester, gatherer and trapper, perhaps that will work.   I've been tracking the resin and sap and I think they are just not being harvested or spawned in enough quantity.

@brads3 Was getting a lot of that from the forester when I had New Flora and the compatibility mods loaded but there was so much fur and whatnot it felt cheaty, so I pulled them.  Just a personal preference.  Mostly had it loaded because I like the early grain from wild oats but that's kind of limited with pines anyway, it seems.  In fact, I think I had to use kid's forest outpost stuff to get it, unless the others just weren't reporting it.  I didn't look that closely, really.  Going to keep an eye on it when I get back into a real game, though, because having new flora etc could help a lot if you find that what you're getting isn't enough.  But for now I want to experience this as Necora has it set up if it works for what I'm trying to do.

Interestingly, I noticed in one test that the best performing clusters, overall, had a little bit of everything going on.  Did 5 combos of Pine Forester side by side with all manner of accompanying harvesters and the ones that did best consistently with wood and everything else had at least a gatherer and trapper.  Adding hunters and herbalists worked fine but didn't seem to affect performance of everything else one way or the other.  The lone forester had consistently lower wood output than the others but would sometimes spike up to be on par.  I'm guessing having to clear the harvestables to plant trees slows it down.  So it seems that because of the slow maturation cycle of the trees, the specialized pieces of the set work best at a slow steady pace with everything synergizing.  Very cool.

@Necora Much appreciated, but absolutely no apologies necessary, of course!  This set is great, it just threw me for a bit of a loop (and I gather from the thread I'm not the only one), which I thought I had figured out, then didn't, now seem to have.  Was a lot of fun learning how the whole thing ticks.  The gotcha is that these specialized foresters don't perform the same as most other buildings of the same type for the game, but there's nothing wrong with that, there's just a different balance to it.  Just needs to be accommodated.  And like you say, given the small radii of these buildings, there's a lot of flexibilty available to do that creatively.  I think it's great.  Now that I've sorted it out, looking forward to really giving it a go.

Tavern -- I completely got sidetracked testing the tavern when I realized I had not figured out the forestry, but I did do some more cider and whiskey production on the side while testing that and I was mistaken about the cider...It definitely goes to the tavern.  Tomorrow I'll try to do a more detailed test with your markets and barns since they hold alcohol and see what actually happens.  You are right, luxuries is kind of weird...Ran into a similar issue with EB's winery as a standalone building.  He has it as part of his Apothecary chain and it works great for that, but actually making it consumable was a bit of a challenge the time I tried, probably for the same reason.  Don't think I ever succeeded, actually.  It's also kind of hard to test because of the way bannies just inhale the stuff the moment they can. lol  Actually, I'm not sure what difference having a worker at the tavern will make, unless there's a way to code it to go get what needs to be there....Like a market of sorts?

Since I have your ear, it occurred to me while playing around with all this, if you ever get into adding stuff to Pines again, I think some kitchens that use the new foods would be really cool.  I know the Royal Bakery does some things with it, but some other options would be awesome.  Like a butcher for game, maybe, or something that makes meals with the new foods...Or meals with the new foods and shellfish from your other sets.  In South Carolina there's a low country boil of shellfish and potatoes and I'm pretty sure there's a New England version of that...hazard a guess there's something like it in your neck of the woods?  Or the fruits with milk from Crystal Cliffs.  That kind of thing. Endless possibilites.  Love food processing where you can get some extra volume at the expense of some fuel or another ingredient and where you can bring different chains together.  Especially when you can combine food groups.  Just a thought.

Thanks again...Having a lot of fun with your stuff and I'm thinking its going to work really well with what I've been working on.

@adelegarland

Definitely do give it a try.  I only tested out to about 20 years but it seemed to fix the problem.

Things I noticed, to summarize:  The maturation cycle on the pine set trees are slower than what we are used to, so it takes about 5 years for it all to get up and running and in full swing.  Clear-cutting the area inside the radius and staffing the specialized foresters with 1 worker seems to make things go the most smoothly, although having 3 set to plant-only the first year or so might boost it a bit.  Might be better to keep at 1 the whole time to get it cycling smoothly, also.  Once it's planted, 1 on cut/plant, for sure, so as to not get ahead of the maturation cycle which seems to keep the specialized harvestables from growing at a point.  Having a specialized gatherer and trapper with it, which is kind of the point anyway, seems to give a slight boost to log production.  Having three workers on the set's Vanilla Forester seems to work fine and can be used to make up for the lower log production on the specialized nodes and harvester production seems fine.  Haven't tested the actual volume of production, but nothing seems to get left out like with the specialized ones and seems to be about on par with the actual vanilla harvester.  Adding a hunter to any of these works fine and doesn't seem to affect anything else one way or the other.  At a cursory look, it appears to be the case with herbalists, too, but not entirely sure about that.

Something that occurred to me...Because of the slow growth of these trees, there is a noticeable variance to everything over time...My tests involved building everything at once and letting it run.  Can't help but think that in a real game staggering building each forester might smooth it out in the long run.  Kind of in the same way phasing in orchards over a period of years smooths that out.  Just a thought.

Good luck!  Interested to hear what you find.

it is neat to hear how others play. everyone's style is different. i know mine changes over time as well. good to have reports on how mods function because of that.

              i used to let the foresters get the trees established long enough to get good yields from the maple and apples and then turn the forester off. that way he didn't cut the maple trees that were producing. i use the forever tree mod so my trees don't die over time and fall over. if a tree does that in the forest,someone can cut it . the game just has it disapear.i don't find the furs too cheaty.buffalo hides are larger than a squirrel or rabbit. with RED's training fort tower hunters i can get buffalo. i use the nat div so i have meadows here and there. usually use a tower hunter near the fodder or thatch meadows.that tower hunts many different animals and gets different outputs each year.
        the pine herbalist has low outputs,but i thik it is how i use it. in the forests,since they are so thick,it is hard to check on him.using it near thatch and fodder gives real low numbers. i can see there is something growing that the meadow workers don't harvest.maybe it is roots instead of herbs.the herbalist doesn't seem to gather all the items like the forester and trapper. it isn't a big problem as i have mods that grow herbs to compensate.
            i turned off the CC in some testing games. when i did that i have no thatch growing on my maps.only mod above the nat div showing a conflict is the flax patch for the pine and CC.i guess i should have turned it off too. just was odd to have an issue with those 2 mods. changes the game a lot since not only don't i have the CC buildings but i can't make vanilla buildings either til i get a thatch grower working.

      i do hope to see NECORA come back and do more. the crystal cliffs stable mod can be expanded. i like how it takes corn as feed for those animal pens.would like to see someone add fodder and give us fertilizer as an output too.i have other ideas that might be different too.

Had a closer look at the Tavern.

Made copious amounts of both cider and whiskey and allowed them to go into storage....The small barns from, I think, Crystal Cliffs.  Then built a tavern.  It didn't move from the barns.  Build all 3 of the maritimes markets and they didn't stock it.  Thought I had noticed it did before but maybe I didn't and was just thinking that because the descriptions say "all flags" and I confused it with the barns at some point.  Didn't try any other alcohol though.

Next I moved it all to a trade post and when unloading it went back to both tavern and barns.  Built a bunch of taverns right next to the port and the rest of it went there, where it got consumed.

So it seems the distillers will drop it in whatever is closer, tavern or a barn.  I had both at about the same distance when I noticed it.  Which isn't the worst thing...Gives the option to store it for pickup by a trade post for sale.  Or if you want it to be consumed maybe stick it with the distilleries off to the side away from barns.

@brads3 It definitely is.  I always like reading your posts about this stuff.  In fact you've helped me a lot on several occasions, including wrapping my head around mod compatibility when I was new and really appreciated that.  I gather our playstyles are probably different but, like you, I love using lots of different mods and getting it all working together.  It's why I still have yet to really sink into CC...I really want to sink into it on its own but every time I sit down to do it I think of 5 combos of mods I'd like to try so I go mess with that.  The modders have spoiled us rotten with so many incredible mods to try new things with, it's impossible to play it all.

Like I said, jury is out on new flora with this one or not.  Going to give it a go without but if I'm getting stretched too thin I may re add it and start over.  Going for kind of a big one with this one but also trying some new stuff like maritimes so we shall see.  Think I should have it all worked out to get started tonight.

Yep, I noticed herb production with pines seemed a little low, but I've usually got herbs coming out of my ears in most games anyway.  Like you set the limit at 100 and you've got 1000 after a while.  If your food groups are solid they don't seem to get used much.  Wondering if the modded trees will change that though.  Will be interesting to see.

Actually, since you mention it, in honor of Red's birthday I decided to add Garden Walls to this set.  Have never played with it and I saw where he's including it in his current project so I figured I'd wait till then, but I'm thinking it will work really well with this.  Will be fun to try out, finally.  I think I've read you are a big fan of that mod.  Might add some different food processing to go with it and some other things.

Definitely cool to see Necora around.  Have been dying to play with maritimes but I'm usually going for a medieval theme so kept putting off trying to work it in.  Having gotten into it a bit its really impressive and there's lots he can do with it. Hope he does.

THANK YOU. it is good to hear i have helped others. that is my hope. to help new players especially so they stay interested in the game and not get frustrated or overwhelmed. the more players the more the game stays alive and the more ideas for new mods.i try throwing tid bits of info in my town blogs off and on.did it with different toolbar pics for a while even.just a neat way to show different mods and how they can be used and work well together.
         CC can be challenging if you try to build all the different chains.people get overwhelmed with too amny different items and have difficutly with the limits.the new flags does help some. i use NMT with the CC,cause RED's buildings don't require the lumber or the building supplies. so you have options to build earlier. usually i start the chain and let the materials build up before expanding the chain.like build up the amount of clay or sand before trying to make bricks.the building supplies takes a lot of bricks and luner or some other products to eep a good supply. there is a lot of different buildings though. oh and all the seeds and orchards and livestock.just as a base mod,it is handy to have. many short games,you never build alot of the chains. i like it for the frontier set,ABANDONED has stolen a better fort and indian set though.you have to watch her she finds odd mods all the time.
      mod order is getting pickier. i notice nowdays i can't move mods as much without affecting another.like i disabled the CC and several mods that went with it,and half the nat div quit working. i had duck hunters who fished off and on but didn't hunt as many ducks.weird stuff happens now and then more since the upgrade. the different mods work together but are much more picky about what order they are in. it pays to keep a notepad handy and keep track of the mod order.
       RED's fodder mod is a super mod. it does flood barns with flowers if you pick them for perfumes.you do have to watch the limits of the misc. if the fodder fills too fast,the fertilizer will stop and then in time the greenhouses.you won't notice it much until you run low on food. the hunter gets used a lot.it can be a cheat if you overuse them and put several close together.to me it makes sence to use 1 near the fodder. i hope in time RED adds to the fodder and gives us a dairy barn that gives milk and fertilizer.the greenhouses help food reserves a lot. with the greenhouses,you produce food all year so you don't need to produce it all just in the summer.this helps nomads too since they have a tendency to come after planting season.