Natural Diversity v1.0
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=269 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=269)
woot big congratulations
@Bartender :)
big hit for your first one :)
Congrats on your first Mod.
Looking very good.
I guess from now on you hardly going to play Banished anymore but Mod for it instead ;) :D
It's beautiful!
Another of those creations I wish was in the game from the beginning.
As
@embx61 said, it's maybe time to start playing again. ;)
Thank you!
Hello! Great addition, thank you!
Since you have mentioned possability to use your mod with other spawning mods, I went at once to test it with New Flora :). And, hurray! They work together! Just two moments I've noted:
1) My gathering tools failed to work with herbs, though they work nicely with your new vegetable models. I don't know why is this difference, but anyway, I used manual herb gathering most rarely, so no matter.
2) Bannies failed to use thatch as a fuel in modded houses (it was DS wooden tent in my case). I think that those houses are not intended to store construction materials (but I'm not sure, never played with this stuff). If it is right, I see two decisions: to change all modded houses, or to mark thatch as a firewood, but maybe there are some other work-around.
Anyway, I'm definitely happy to see both my plants and yours :)
Thanks everyone!
Quote from: embx61 on April 15, 2017, 04:54:15 PMI guess from now on you hardly going to play Banished anymore but Mod for it instead ;) :D
Quote from: kid1293 on April 15, 2017, 11:45:43 PMAs @embx61 said, it's maybe time to start playing again. ;)
Haha, I indeed haven't played much since I started development on this! I guess that is the fate of us modders, but I will try to take your advice ;).
Quote from: tanypredator on April 16, 2017, 02:19:08 AMSince you have mentioned possability to use your mod with other spawning mods, I went at once to test it with New Flora :). And, hurray! They work together! Just two moments I've noted:
1) My gathering tools failed to work with herbs, though they work nicely with your new vegetable models. I don't know why is this difference, but anyway, I used manual herb gathering most rarely, so no matter.
2) Bannies failed to use thatch as a fuel in modded houses (it was DS wooden tent in my case). I think that those houses are not intended to store construction materials (but I'm not sure, never played with this stuff). If it is right, I see two decisions: to change all modded houses, or to mark thatch as a firewood, but maybe there are some other work-around.
It's great to hear that they work simultaneously! I will test them together to see about the first bug you mentioned, and I will do some other tests for the second. I did set a 'fuel' flag for the thatch, but perhaps there is more to it.
Quote from: Bartender on April 16, 2017, 05:38:38 AM
It's great to hear that they work simultaneously! I will test them together to see about the first bug you mentioned, and I will do some other tests for the second. I did set a 'fuel' flag for the thatch, but perhaps there is more to it.
What bannies did was they took thatch to the tent, couldn't put it there and brought it bach to the stockpile. Thatch appears as "construction material" in the main info box, that is why I thought, that maybe those houses cannot store it.
I think if you want thatch to work as a fuel you will have to process it into something, like a fuel bundle or something. I don't think you can have more than one flag on something that is not food or clothing - unless it needs to be flagged as 'woodfuel' as well, TBH the flags can get quite confusing/messy at times.
The vanilla houses can store and use it though, so the fuel flag works for them.
Necora, I know one method of processing grass into the fuel, used in real life, but I think it's not suitable here, lol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_animal_dung_fuel
'resuse of excretia' lovely ;) perhaps a use for that CC bonemeal though, a cheap dirty and low efficiency source of fuel. It is a shame that we can't control the 'strength' of a fuel in its template file like tools.
And OK, if it works in vanilla then ignore my comment...
Quote from: Bartender on April 16, 2017, 06:04:28 AM
The vanilla houses can store and use it though, so the fuel flag works for them.
Well, I've tested some more, and found out that
@kid1293 's houses use thatch, while
@Discrepancy 's houses don't. I'll try to upload the most recent version of those. Also I discovered, that annual roots don't want to be gathered by my tools too.
I have many of my houses with 'Fuel' flag.
If I remember right Discrepancy uses 'WoodFuel' to stop them from using coal.
Thank you, kid1293. Then I hope it won't be difficult for him to make "fuel" using version. I've never mind bannies using coal.
Ah that's it then. I guess adding the 'woodfuel' tag would solve the issue then?
As for the problems with the Herbs and Roots
@tanypredator, that's because some of them have other templates. I had to do this to get them to spawn in different area's, or to make some of them annuals. The names of the new resource files are in the description on the download page, if you want to include them.
Bartender, I have asked Discrepancy to make fuel-using version, but if you can add 'woodfuel' tag even better. If that is possible.
I think I'll need your template files to make it work. I've looked just now, I had to include NaturalResource files to my mod to reference them in my gathering tools. Since you already have thatch tool, would you, please, share your herbs and annual vegs templates? And more than that - Discrepancy said that to use something from other mod we need 3d model files, string texts and sprites - everything.
Or we can just leave it as it is - that is not such a big problem.
After I slept on it, I have a thought that template files may be enough. Because in my mod I call only 'naturalresource' part of template code, which don't call for models and so on.
I have a feel that if I put everything, it won't be compatible with this mod.
There is one more idea - if you, Bartender, make a version without seasonality, you can attach all your models to original templates, so they will work both with my mod and maybe with the mod 'coldrealism' - to make all plants to disappear at winter. Just a thought. I'm going to test your current version with 'coldrealism'.
Modded gatherers, like in Kid's Forest Outpost, don't gather new plants too, but they can be gathered with 'cleanallresource' button.
Personally, I would prefer all roots and herbs to disappear at winter, that way you could use only one - original, but changed - template, and all old tools and gatherers will work with it. But I'm happy with this mod as it is, and if you want, I can try to implement your plants into my gathering tools.
Quote from: tanypredator on April 16, 2017, 02:19:08 AM
Hello! Great addition, thank you!
Since you have mentioned possability to use your mod with other spawning mods, I went at once to test it with New Flora :). And, hurray! They work together!
.....
Anyway, I'm definitely happy to see both my plants and yours :)
Quote from: tanypredator on April 16, 2017, 06:05:33 AM
@Necora I know one method of processing grass into the fuel, used in real life, but I think it's not suitable here, lol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_animal_dung_fuel
@tanypredator happy to read that your mods works with @Bartender mod :)
Which order did you load them in, was yours above or below the Natural Diversity mod?
2) You could also use that idea, dung as fuel, with
@RedKetchup awesome little dung producer in "Garden Walls"
Black Liquid's CC has the Bundling buildings, could something similar (or an overwrite mod) be made that will allow bundling sheds, CC & others to use RK's manure and Bartender's thatch to make "Fire Bricks"?!?!? We would then have a literal "Sh!tty Mod" hahahahaha ... :)
:D
Quote from: QueryEverything on April 16, 2017, 11:41:31 PM
Which order did you load them in, was yours above or below the Natural Diversity mod?
I put this mod below mine, as stated in mod description: "If you wish to use this mod together with mods that add resources that get spawned in the forest, such as Necora's PineSet, this mod must be loaded below the other mod."
Thank you for the light version of your natural diversity
@Bartender. Tested in the North... works fine, looks great on the Nordic terrain and green in the mod list! Cool stuff and added to my recommended mod list (http://www.banishedventures.com/north/).
The only thing I would like to mention is the pkm size which is not light. 60 MB for the little plants as visual add-on is huge. Maybe when reworking your mod some day you can look at the texture and AO files. Probably they can be a lot smaller or there is something else.
Quote from: tanypredator on April 16, 2017, 12:00:19 PM
Bartender, I have asked Discrepancy to make fuel-using version, but if you can add 'woodfuel' tag even better. If that is possible.
@Bartender - Just add a second flag and it will work both ways.
Somewhere there was talk about 'fire-bricks' made from thatch and dung.
Make them 'Fuel | WoodFuel' too.
@tanypredator I think the template files would be enough indeed, and it would also solve any problems in the future as I'm probably going to do updates to those meshes ;). I will send them to you by pm. Also, the Light version of the mod doesn't add any new templates, though it also doesn't include the meadows and the thatcher at the moment.
@kid1293 This dung mod sounds like fun ;D.
@Tom Sawyer I'm glad you like it, and thank you for recommending it! You are right about the size, I didn't pay much attention to optimization yet. I will definitely take some time to do this.
Yes, light version must be fully compatible with new flora, but I like meadows :)
By the way, tested it for a few years with 'cold realism'. Seems that they work together except for herbs - all vegs disappear at winter, but herbs left. But with your mod it looks like gatherers have smaller yeld, so it turned too hard. Also I couldn't have enough fuel by using only thatch - I had no firewood at hard start (I thought there must be 100 of it in the cart?) and manual gathering had small yeld. But I have to try other map.
@Bartender I am noticing a problem. I have a endless feedback loop of laborers bringing thatch from a home to a stockpile and back. It is particularly with the tents made by
@Discrepancy but i have also noticed it with some other houses.
@The Pilgrim, we have already discussed it a bit above :) That's because of flags used by Discrepancy's houses. Bartender said he can fix it in the next update.
Sorry must have missed that ???
Quote from: Bartender on April 17, 2017, 07:59:38 AM
...
@kid1293 This dung mod sounds like fun ;D .
...
Feel free to use the name I suggested
@Bartender ;) Or not ... most likely not, but ... *evil
Quote from: QueryEverything on April 16, 2017, 11:41:31 PM
...
Quote from: tanypredator on April 16, 2017, 06:05:33 AM
@Necora I know one method of processing grass into the fuel, used in real life, but I think it's not suitable here, lol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_animal_dung_fuel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_animal_dung_fuel)
...
Query:
2) You could also use that idea, dung as fuel, with @RedKetchup awesome little dung producer in "Garden Walls"
Black Liquid's CC has the Bundling buildings, could something similar (or an overwrite mod) be made that will allow bundling sheds, CC & others to use RK's manure and Bartender's thatch to make "Fire Bricks"?!?!? We would then have a literal "Sh!tty Mod" hahahahaha ... :)
:D
Yes, yes, I'll go sit in the naughty corner :D
I could write the same words on many threads! You are amazing, all you diligent modders (and testers). Impressive!
@Bartender I have had a chance to playthrough the last couple of days and set myself up a Thatcher, on a 'blank canvas', and find that I'm not sure if the numbers are good.
House & mini market are with the Thatcher building, for food & sleep. etc.
What numbers should I be expecting the Thatcher to harvest in a season?
Also, would you consider a smaller building, as a harvester/gatherer, I have found that in some forests the thatch is being produced, but I don't have a harvester, so it grows with no attendance. I don't use the thatcher in that area due to the size of the building. I would be happy with a balance compromise discussion :)
Otherwise, I like it, and has saved some Bannies from freezing :D Thank you!!
Thanks for testing it :)!
To be honest, I don't know what the exact numbers should be currently.. the spawn and growthrates of the grasses have been slightly altered in the 1.0.1 fix, which has an influence on the gathering rate. From the feedback I've been receiving it does seem that they are a bit overproductive. This is somewhat intentionally; I wanted to avoid making the early game too hard with so many of the basic buildings being locked behind the thatch requirement. The downside is that it creates a surplus once those early buildings have been constructed.
Since I'm currently designing a more extensive production chain for the grasses, I'm very curious about any feedback you might have on how to balance this :). This new production chain is also supposed to make balancing easier, at least from the players perspective, by giving you various refinement options through different buildings. Another thing I want to look at is to create cheaper options that don't require thatch for some of the basic buildings.
Currently I can't say much about what the new buildings are going to be like, mainly because most of them still need to be designed :P. The new grass gatherer is definitely going to be a tad smaller than the current one though, probably with a smaller working area too.
good morning,i would suggest not messing with the numbers yet. production numbers will depend on the rest of the chain which you are still developing.
the game i am in now,i chose to burn a lot of the thatch early,so not to fill my stock pile. yesterday,i found out thatch is used in building pastures. i would assume a larger pasture would require more thatch.i don't have a thatch hut either yet.so far i am using as much thatch as i find clearing land. actually have used more than i expected.
i have noticed too there seems to be areas of the map that the gthatch grows more than others.i have areas of my map that i cleared and nothing grows back.that is unusual.normally my trees would regrow and be thick around buildings. it would get so thick that i learned to clear and lay grass roads all over towns to stop it. now i don't have to do this as much.this is a nice change and makes the game play different.we seem to have less fertile soils and rocky ground. it does not happena everywhere. my fodder field where i cleared trees and rocks and thatch,foods still grow. so the amount of thatch produced might matter more about where the hut is placed.
i think most players are still testing various mods and adjusting to all the chnages.it is an ongoing process.the more you add to this mod and the thatch production chain the more understanding of the numbers we will have.
I completely agree, the feedback on the current numbers is merely intended to give me a rough idea of where to go ;).
It's true that the v1.0.1. changes the spawning behaviour of both trees and grasses. Normally what you experience is that a closeby tree drops a seed somewhere close to your buildings, sprouting a new tree. I had to reduce this seed distance to prevent the trees from overgrowing the grassland areas. The same goes for the grasses, their seed distance is even smaller than for the trees. That's why if you clear an area, it will take a rather long time for it to get overgrown again.
If you don't cut any resources in a map, then eventually, after a very long time (at least 60-70 years) you will end up with a mixture of trees and grasses everywhere unfortunately. This is a byproduct of how their behaviour is coded in the game and I can't prevent it. Normally by that time a significant portion of the land will be in use though, so the effect will not me that visible.
on the seed distance,do you mean you made it farther apart or closer together?i wonder how much effect that has on other things to? the maple and apple trees from NECOR's pine set seem to be slower at producing now. i tested it before and found that about 8 years of growth and the trees would produce good. i have the maple forester working for 20 years and the output seems to be lower than normal.if you look over at the LOWESVILLE blog the forest isn't as thick either. as for the grass ad trees overtaking a map,i see spots that thatch grows thicker and then spots where there is less of it.same with the trees. it is like real world. you have meadows mixed in with forests not all at the same time.
Okes, back with numbers
@Bartender I ran for a few seasons last night.
1 Thatcher, in a radius with few other buildings average 75-95 per season. 2, did increase it to about 180.
I have found them sneak up all over the place, so I did a ~100x100 grid, and sure enough there is was, hidden in the trees as well. No complaint, other than that perhaps it's getting a little congested in the forests. There is strong competition with another mod, with the work around being I'm going to put them off in their own radius, and for now put the large thatcher in place with 'cut' only on. No planting, to keep the grass down.
That's what you could do - "the Lawnmower". Tiny shack, little Bannie with the title "Lawn Mower" (or gatherer if you don't want to add a new profession).
:D Just random ideas ... lol
@QueryEverything you are a fantastic beta tester! :) ;)
^^ i feel some flatten tool has been used alot ^^
Quote from: brads3 on May 04, 2017, 04:30:32 PM
on the seed distance,do you mean you made it farther apart or closer together?i wonder how much effect that has on other things to? the maple and apple trees from NECOR's pine set seem to be slower at producing now. i tested it before and found that about 8 years of growth and the trees would produce good. i have the maple forester working for 20 years and the output seems to be lower than normal.if you look over at the LOWESVILLE blog the forest isn't as thick either. as for the grass ad trees overtaking a map,i see spots that thatch grows thicker and then spots where there is less of it.same with the trees. it is like real world. you have meadows mixed in with forests not all at the same time.
I set the seeding distance a bit closer together for the trees and grasses only. Any other resources should not be affected by this ;). For the first 60 or so years you will have patches of forest, patches of meadow and some mixed zones indeed, as it should be. it's only after that time that they will very slowly start to blend into each other. It's easy to avoid by removing some grasses or trees from specific places, because of the low seed distance they won't regrow there that easily.
Quote from: QueryEverything on May 04, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
Okes, back with numbers @Bartender I ran for a few seasons last night.
1 Thatcher, in a radius with few other buildings average 75-95 per season. 2, did increase it to about 180.
I have found them sneak up all over the place, so I did a ~100x100 grid, and sure enough there is was, hidden in the trees as well. No complaint, other than that perhaps it's getting a little congested in the forests. There is strong competition with another mod, with the work around being I'm going to put them off in their own radius, and for now put the large thatcher in place with 'cut' only on. No planting, to keep the grass down.
That's what you could do - "the Lawnmower". Tiny shack, little Bannie with the title "Lawn Mower" (or gatherer if you don't want to add a new profession).
:D Just random ideas ... lol
Thanks for this
@QueryEverything! These are slightly lower than my original numbers, which is a step in the right direction I think.
It's true that there are a lot of 'mixed' zones with both grasses and trees, and as I said these will slowly increase after a time. This is mostly a byproduct of how Mr. Luke coded the spawning behaviour, it wasn't really intended for two main resources coexisting and staying separate I think. At the same time, it is not completely unnatural either, as most natural forests and meadows would turn into patchy mixed zones if there is the right amount of grazing going on. (too much grazing turns everything into meadows, too little results in closed canopy forest).
I'm not sure if adding a special 'lawnmower' building would bring much more utility. If you use the 'clear grasses' menu option even in a small 10x10 area, it will take at least several years for the grasses to occupy that whole area again. If there are still trees growing there, it will take much longer.
@Bartender, great looking set, eager to try but I have not updated my game yet. I am wondering if the Light version would work with 1.0.6 ?
Thank you! The Light version should definitely work for 1.0.6., as it only replaces some models ;).
oh wonderful, thank you so much. :)