Technical questions

[Paeng]

Yeah, hops is use to offset the sweetish malt and give a slightly bitter tang to beer...

Training them up trellises is mainly to stimulate growth by "catching" more sun... 

[A Nonny Moose]

Hops is a green vine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops

You really can't make a grain beer with any taste without it.  Perry (Pear beer) and Cider (Apple beer) do not use hops, nor I suspect do any of the other fruit concoctions suggested in this game.  Most fruit beers are actually distilled into Eaus de vie.  Perry -> Poire Williams;  Cider -> Calvados; Plums -> Slivovitz; Yellow Plums -> Mirabelle; etc.

I suppose Luke wasn't very familiar with fruit concoctions, and certainly knew nothing about purple Jesus made from alcohol and Welch's Grape Juice by U.S. soldiers in the Pacific Theatre of WW II.

[Gatherer]

There is potato crop in the game. We could make vodka.

[Paeng]

You really can't make a grain beer with any taste without it.

Quite true... in return though, according to German brewer tradition and the Reinheitsgebot ("Purity Law") from 1516, no ingredients but barley, hops, and water may be used to make the brew (the existence of yeast had not yet been discovered, so that was added later).

That law is often misinterpreted though -

The intent of the law was to keep beer "pure" by feudal decree, that is, to keep cheap and often unhealthy ingredients — such as rushes, roots, mushrooms, and animals products — out of the people's drink. In medieval times, brewers often used such ingredients to raise their profits by lowering their standards. The word "Reinheit" (purity), however, did not appear anywhere in the original text. It only started to make its appearance in German legal texts around 1918. Until then, the law was usually referred to as the "surrogate prohibition." In modern times, the purity law is part of the German tax code. It states that, in bottom-fermented beers, that is, lagers, brewers may use only barley malt, hops, yeast and water. Specifically, this rule forbids the brewing in Germany of lagers containing spices (as do many Belgian beers), corn or rice (as do virtually all mass-produced industrial beers in the rest of the world), sugar (to be found in many Belgian and British beers), un-malted grains (required for many Belgian and British beer styles), as well as chemical additives and stabilizers.
...
Though called the "purity" law, its regulations do not imply that beers made by other nations are "impure." Rather, the significance of the Reinheitsgebot lies in the fact that German beer is all natural! It may not contain any chemicals, preservatives, or artificial process enhancers (such as artificial enzymes or yeast nutrients) nor may it contain any cheap and flavorless sources of starch (such as rice and corn). This means, a beer made in Germany is always a wholesome and flavorful product. It is the art and craft of the brewer that turns the Reinheitsgebot's simple and restrictive list of ingredients into a cornucopia of beer styles, from blond to black, from light to heavy.

Source: German Beer Primer for Beginners - Why German Beer is Special
Sorry, I don't remember any URL...


Oh, and before you wonder -

International trade and the global economy have finally — after almost 500 years — got the better of the Reinheitsgebot. To the dismay of German brewers, the Reinheitsgebot, with its narrow selection of ingredients, was struck down by the European Court in 1987 — as a restraint of free trade. The restrictions it contained were held not permissible in the newly integrated European market.

After centuries of ensuring beer quality, the Reinheitsgebot, therefore, fell victim to the triumph of form over substance. Since the ruling, it has been legal to import beers into Germany that are brewed with adjuncts (corn, rice, non-malted grains and sugar) and treated with chemicals for an artificial head and a longer shelf life. German brewers, however, still adhere fiercely to the Reinheitsgebot as a matter of pride and tradition. German beer labels and advertisements still proudly proclaim the purity of the local brew, and many a German imbiber would not think of letting anything but a "pure" beer pass his or her lips.

[A Nonny Moose]

Well, the EU has created yet another reason to cease to exist.  Where I come from this kind of thing is called 'pissing in the soup'.

The purity laws would have had a hard time in Ancient Egypt where the beer was made from millet, and I don't think the hop plant grows in the north African desert.  Beer was the common beverage because the water was dangerous.  In order to make beer you have to boil the water and so pathogens are mostly removed.

[Nilla]

I lived in Germany in the 1980s and remember the discussions of the "Reinheitsgebot" very well. It was a really big thing to that time. I found it very weird, that the contents of beer was discussed with so much passion. That ingredients were considered hazardous in beer, that without discussion were put into baby food (a thing that was much more important to me to that time).

As a citizen of the EU, I have very mixed emotions about it. Much of its bureaucracy is horror and I am also quite happy that we still have our own currency in Sweden, but sorry @A Nonny Moose, I don't think we could do without EU either.

[Paeng]

That ingredients were considered hazardous in beer, that without discussion were put into baby food

Yes, that is quite scandalous.

However, as for the EU killing that law claiming it is "a restraint of free trade", now that is a sketch from Absurdistan.

Just another steppingstone for the lobbyists constantly pushing at our doors to finally have unrestrained access to chlorinated chicken, genetically manipulated grains and and and... Regards from TTIP... 

[A Nonny Moose]

Unfortunately, the EU could be much better than it is, but the idea of giving up certain sovereign rights could eventually cause a disappearance of some national identities.  After centuries of warring tribes, especially the Franks and the Teutons, this doesn't seem likely.  National pride is such a nuisance in little outfits such as you find in Europe.

[Paeng]

the EU could be much better than it is

Well, the problem is that what was meant to be a European Community based on similar values (not identities!) has been appropriated by war mongers, people clinging desperately to the capitalist carcass - it still kicks, but has been a zombie for a long time already...

And to make things worse, many countries are off-loading their dumbest have-beens in Brussels, some of them with truly spectacular failures under their belts (before they were shipped out to Brussels to lobby)... 


Brussels is a hotspot for lobbyists, all 35 - 40.000 of them...

Here is an interesting map showing who is housing in the blocks (one square mile!) surrounding the institutions -
http://www.politico.eu/interactive/map-brussels-lobbyists-square-mile/
* interactive, just point at the red spots to see "who is who"...

[A Nonny Moose]

Good grief.  It is worse than the American Congress.  This is no way to run a "government".  The amount of information from this mob must just paralyse any effort to get anything done.  And, of course, since the European Parliament can only suggest and exhort, what a waste of human effort!  They don't need a terrorism threat to paralyse that outfit, they have enough yappers and flappers to do it.  The greenhouse gas emissions from all this is likely to cause a Heinrich event that stops the Gulf Stream thereby freezing the continent to death.

As for the tottering capitalism, creaky as it is, it remains the best system that has been tried so far.  Unfortunately is seems to be on its last legs, and probably has a case of Alzheimer's disease.  The whole system of paper currency is a matter of steadfast public faith.

I have a feeling that if anything happened to capitalism we'd all be back to bartering.  Probably a good time to start converting paper currency into specie.

[Paeng]

This is no way to run a "government".

Indeed... and that whole system is so deeply entrenched, so corrupt... I don't really see how this could possibly get cleaned up - short of some very very violent outbreak... but maybe that's not far off, when I see that Turkey shoots down a Russian MIG and then runs claiming a NATO defense case...

I wish I could say "we live in interesting times"... but all I see is a crazy world!

[A Nonny Moose]

Remember that "May you live in interesting times." is an Ancient Chinese curse.

I am afraid that times are not so much interesting as confused.  The Internet provides the chattering classes with too much information while allowing them to increase the ambient noise to something rather deafening.  We seem to have created a network of Babel, but we have no Babel fish to filter out the meaning.  Not only that, but cherry picking is becoming rampant.

[assobanana76]

Where is @assobanana76 lately? He's been missing (and missed) for over a month now?

hey guys and girls!! 
I'm alive!! 
how long has it been!! 
you were worried about me, huh ??
nothing to worry about!
is that I have had over a minute to play .. added to the fact that my pc soon "will pull the bucket" .. (not sure about this phrase translated! lol  )
I have in whish list Amazon a new PC i3 and card gtx 750 but I do not think I can afford before one year !! 
Meanwhile I got the trip "Lego" thanks to my son 4yo!
I also downloaded the software to build "modular buildings" for the city .. so I'm not very far from a city builder! 
what's new ??
Red. are you still working on your NMT?
in fact, I was expecting to start when you release you the NMT 2.0, and the team of CC their version 1.6
but I know that both of us are still working!
how are you all?

[Bobbi]

@assobanana76! Welcome back. We did miss you. I hope you get a new PC in time for the release of @RedKetchup's and Colonial Charters newest versions. I think they are both waiting for the beta version of Banished to be finalized. Rumor has it that may (or may not) be around December 10th. Crossing fingers. Can't wait to play with Red's new houses. If you haven't already, head over to the threads in mod discussions to have a look.
PS. I am hoping Santa brings me a new PC for Christmas, too.

[assobanana76]

@assobanana76! Welcome back. We did miss you. I hope you get a new PC in time for the release of @RedKetchup's and Colonial Charters newest versions. I think they are both waiting for the beta version of Banished to be finalized. Rumor has it that may (or may not) be around December 10th. Crossing fingers. Can't wait to play with Red's new houses. If you haven't already, head over to the threads in mod discussions to have a look.
PS. I am hoping Santa brings me a new PC for Christmas, too.

Oh great! Then you, like me, are waiting for their new releases !

P.S. I quickly read the posts that I got lost and apparently the beta gives many problems !
luckily I had not started any new city recently otherwise it seems that you can use the saved games !

for Santa Claus unfortunately I asked too many Lego for my puppy ( and me ) to ask even a new PC!