Necora's Work in Progress

[RedKetchup]

I played a bit this afternoon and noticed a bug at the maple boiler: The worker wants to put maple sap there, but can't get rid of it, somehow. She gets there again, and again, and again carrying 100 maple sap around, producing nothing.

that mean the storage flag isnt the same as the rawmaterial flag.

[Necora]

Yup I stumbled across that bug yesterday too. I guess I forgot to add the right storage flag when I changed maple sap to a Fruit. Sorry. I gotta do better at keeping up with these changes. I've started keeping lists of things that I need to double check.

[Necora]

We've been having an interesting discussion over in Nilla's testing the maritimes thread and I decided to bring it to this thread so that we don't take over @Nilla 's thread completely and so if anyone else who is not reading that thread doesn't miss out on the discussion.

The idea is to change the Crystal Cliffs animal pens to make them a) less powerful, or at least cost something, and b) realistic. This has ended up with introducing food for the animals, which I am currently working with as using the corn resource from the vanilla game - you will need to grow corn to feed the animals that will produce a range of items.

Here are the numbers...

Small Animal Pen (previously known as the Goat Pen).

Produce Option 1 = Goats Milk.

• 10 Corn (Trade Value = 1) => Goats Milk (TV = 1) - Educated = 15, Non-Educated = 10  => Total value gain Ed = 1.5, Non-Ed = 1.

Produce Option 2 = Wool (from sheep).

• 20 Corn (TV = 1) => Wool (TV = 5) - Ed. = 6, Non-Ed. = 4  => Total value gain Ed = 1.5, Non-Ed = 1.

Small Animal Hutch (previously known as the Chicken Hutch).

Produce Option 1 = Eggs (from chickens).

• 10 Corn (TV = 1) => Eggs (TV = 1) - Ed. = 15, Non-Ed. = 10  => Total value gain Ed = 1.5, Non-Ed = 1.

Produce Option 2 = Fur (from rabbits).

• 20 Corn (TV = 1) => Fur (TV = 5) - Ed. = 6, Non-Ed. = 4  => Total value gain Ed = 1.5, Non-Ed = 1.

I will aim to change the work time/ work required so that these are not too powerful, but I have the impression that the fur and wool output will be rather high.

To get these numbers I had to change the Vanilla wool and egg template to get the different create values (higher in both instances) and some differentiation between educated and non-educated. So there might be some effects on other mods.

At the moment, if your educated worker managed 10 work cycles in 1 year, they would produce the following (separately, only one item per building)...

• 100 Corn => 150 Goats Milk
• 200 Corn => 60 Wool
• 100 Corn => 150 Eggs
• 200 Corn => 60 Fur

[Necora]

I ran this new set up for a few years and here are the highest numbers I achieved.

Fur = 144
Eggs = 270
Goats Milk = 435
Wool = 150
Milk  = 1320 ^{** 3 workers at this location.}

Now, these numbers were achieved using the Debug menu. This meant that all bannies were educated and there were no impacts of cold, health, or happiness. So they didn't need to go home between shifts and just worked worked worked. I also used the Debug to give an unlimited supply of corn. So the only limiting factor, was how far they had to walk for storage. I had each one right next to a storage, and built trade posts that sucked up all of the food so that the storage never got full.

[RedKetchup]

thats way too much furs

personally i used the leather numbers
how you named your file ? RawMaterialFur.rsc ?

[Necora]

rawmaterialfur.rsc and in this case it is the same as the wool, however I had to reduce the non-educated production for balance (vanilla wool is 6-6).

Value = 5
Low Create = 4
High Create = 6

Since that test I have increased work time/required to 11-11, and you have to take into account no one will reach those numbers in a game because I turned off hunger and cold etc., but I agree they are still too high.

I think the only thing to do is to make them two separate hutches producing only eggs and only fur, the same with the pens, one only for wool and one only for milk to take away the option. Then I can change the work time/required for each one and make it better.

@RedKetchup  What number of fur would you aim for?

[RedKetchup]

here's my RawMaterialFur.rsc file

create 2 to 3 furs ( nonEd - Educated )
Weight : 10
Worth : 20 ( fur is fur , alot more valuable than simple leather )

[Necora]

@RedKetchup I used that initially for the pine set, but was wondering if fur was too high a trade value.

The issue with fur, is that while things like beaver pelt were high in value, other fur (hare, deer, coyote, bear) were much less so. Perhaps the best solution for incorporating fur well into the game is to have two different types.

'Fur Pelts' could be things like beaver. These are high trade value, like your fur resource. The reason these were high value were not only the fur but also the skin too, so the whole pelt was valued. You could then increase the value of your fur, and have it as a lucrative trade option which is pretty much what it was for the colonies.

A second type of fur could be just fur, not pelt, a lower trade value like that of wool, that can be used as a wool alternative in clothing. That is what I was thinking of here, and using it in a clothing chain as an alternative of wool for warmth. This is realistic to northern colonies.

What do you think?

[RedKetchup]

you are entirely free to make a 2nd fur..... with lower value.

just make sure the name of the file is different to prevent bad conflicts

[Nilla]

As I've said, I like the idea of an input of fodder, if you want to have animal products, as alternative to pastures.

To the numbers. The way I see production in Banished.

In my current game I'm using Red's hunting tower. That sets the trade price, also for your furs to 20. That's a good thing. Why should fur cost less than leather hide? It doesn't make your trapper overpowered, @Necora. Not at all! It just makes it worth to use a trapper. I've guessed you've come to know me a bit; if I see, that a building or profession bring a too low profit, I don't run it, unless I need the product for something and can't buy it. Normally, I would never run a trapper, who produces around 100 wild animal worth 1 each year. But if the skinner increases the value, the way he does now, with the trade value of 20 for furs, with an average trade value of 500-600, I might use it, even if it's still much less than some other export goods (vanilla woodchopper 2000-3000 as example).

But of cause, if your rabbit furs would pay 20, the rabbits would be more profitable than the other pens. I would like them to give about the same profit for 1 worker. It's a good way, to compensate the larger, more expensive building, with the possibility to have more workers.

When you calculate to compare the good out of the pens, I think you ought to calculate a bit different. You must reduce the output with the cost of the input.

3 milk/egg cost 2 corn to produce. That means the "real production" is in fact only 1/3 of your number. That's too low compared to other food producers.

For wool/rabbit furs (if you set the value 5) you get 3*5=15 out of 10 corn. A profit of 5 for 3 furs/wool.

The real production value for your products (with your best production conditions) would be

Fur 240
Egg 90
Goat milk 145
Wool 250
Milk 440 (or 147 for each farmer)

I wouldn't even concider to produce any of these food. If the fur was for trade only, I wouldn't produce any either (but maybe if it could be used to process further), maybe wool, if I don't have enough sheep or space to build pastures.

To your idea in that other thread; that you have to rebuild the pens from time to time (as the animals die). I don't like that idea. Why should I have to demolish and rebuild anything just because an animal dies. Of cause a single goat reproduce. Why do you think, you can milk a goat? It just has to be taken to a "billy-goat" from time to time.

[Necora]

@Nilla I'm not sure what you mean with those trade values, I assume you mean net value gain? I am aiming for 1.5 for educated worker, so 100 in, 150 out, especially in food stuffs. Do you want more? Because that seems a little extreme, to make 200 or 300 milk value from 100 corn value. Is that not rather over powered? We can increase the value of milk, but only by a small amount otherwise you won't produce enough to consume let alone trade, it isn't a luxury item (although these days some may argue that it should be).


Dev Note.

The PEI set has been updated to hopefully get better trade options.

The pine set is also being uploaded now (might take a while, it is big) with a few minor bug fixes such as the maple boiler, whiskey, and also sorting out some weights of certain items.

I've also thrown in a couple of new buildings for it, a tavern and a guest house so that your nomads can be warm and your bannies can be warmer.

Attached are some pictures.

[Necora]

Pine set is taking a little longer as that tavern and guest house gave me ideas for more houses...

Small town house - same stats as cabin.
Tall town house - same stats as upgraded cabin.

[QueryEverything]

These look fabulous

[RedKetchup]

people are starting to used with wonderful colors

they cant go without now

[Nilla]

I'll try again to explain what I mean. How I got these numbers:

Set eggs as an example: 100 grain gives 150 eggs. That means to make 3 eggs you need 2 grain or each egg cost 0.67 grain to produce. The profit is 0,33 for each egg. With 270 eggs each year, that means the win on food is 270*0,33 =90 or to explain it in a less mathematical way; to get these 270 eggs, you have to give 180 grain away, so in real only 90 food is produced. That's not enough for a reasonable food production site.

I find a production site, that uses an input of material should prodcue at least as much as a fisher, that uses none. (Or better a little more. It's harder to run such a production site. You must think of good location with enough raw material.) Back to your eggs. There are several ways to get there.

a. Reduce the input of grain. (Seems to me the best, most realistic thing to do. A chicken doesn't eat that much)
b. Keep 100 in 150 out, but increase the productivity about 5 times. (That would be a lot of eggs and a lot of grain consumed)
c. Increase the trade value for eggs to about 5, to make eggs a trading good. (I don't think we need more trading goods, especially not food)

If you want to look at good balancing. I find, there are two modders, active on this web page, who are really good at it. It's @RedKetchup and @Tom Sawyer. They are a bit different: Red adept his production numbers to the vanilla buildings. Some have a little high production, but they are never overpowered, compared to vanilla and you'll never find a building with a really low production. Tom has thrown every vanilla production number away and created his own system. Different to vanilla but everything makes very much sense.

To your inn/guesthouse

Cute as always. But I'm not sure, I like the flat roofs. The will broke in winter with a lot of snow and leak water in summer. (Can't help it, once an engineer, always an engineer  )

Two questions: How do you attract nomads in your game without the vanilla nomad attracting buildings, or some other nomad attracting mods? Do you have any plans in making your own. Or is there something already, that I have overseen. I don't get any in my present game. (But could of cause build some of Kids nomad attractors, if I want some)