World of Banished

I'm looking forward to a new upgrade of the Nordic mod. In the time I wait, I started a small game a few days ago to test a combination of mods. I played again yesterday and it's more fun that I thought, so it might be worth to write a little about it.

Mods I'm testing:
@Tom Sawyer: Nordic Landscape, version 2 - this time I try the harsh climate and the "Anders and Ella" start. I even play disasters on, medium, valley map, 520690710.
@Gordon Dry: One year is one year, version 16052032 (10.5) - I tried a mod like that (I don´t know if it was from you Gordon) right at the beginning, but I didn't like the dynamic of the game. Now I will give it one more try.
@kid1293: Forest outpost 1.03, version1 - I have seen all the nice mods from Kid, but have never tried one. It's time!

I have played 29 years. My settlement has the huge population of 21!  ;) (Just to mention in my fastest game, I had 5900 inhabitants in 30 years. Banished is a weird game!)  Without some tricks it would have been even less, I have forced divorces, to get more children!  :-\ (Strange behaviour: If people are divorced, there are more children  :o  ;)  )  Anyhow; there are 9 adults, 5 students and 7 children.

I must reverse my negative feelings about the 1:1 mod. I'm still not the biggest fan, it takes so long until something happens (OK, the Anders and Ella start makes it more extreme, than it would have been with a normal start) and I'm not the most patient person. But now, I see a sense in playing it this way. I also see some new difficulties to handle: The children are unproductive much longer. That makes it more difficult to support a settlement; the % of active workers are smaller. For me, the slow speed also causes some trouble: It's very tempting to play 10x speed and when I do, I don't play well (I suppose I'm too old)  :-\. I forget things like sending farmers to plant the fields in spring, send herdsmen to slaughter some sheep, there are big herds of reindeer just in front of my stores, but before I notice and send a hunter, they are gone........  We will see how things work as the settlement grows.

The small buildings from @kid1293 are very nice and useful. The productivity is good, but not overpowered. I think they are most useful at the beginning of a game, but I think I will use some of the smaller forest buildings, also when the game grows bigger.

I can't say much to the harsher climate yet. I haven't farmed for long. I grow some potatoes and I have just planted some cherry trees. The potato harvest is very different from year to year. Unless I forget to to send the farmers to their fields in time, it's mostly a decent harvest (~60% average). But you have to start the harvest manually in late summer as the temperature falls.

First picture
The stores are well filled. I have to alter the people between the professions/workplaces to produce everything needed.

Second picture
So far I was a bit lucky with the disasters. First there was a tornado, far away on the other side of the river. Than this fire. It's my first house, that sooner or later would have been replaced with a nice red cottage. Nothing more caught fire.

Sounds like a nice game with much micromanagement. I like this kind of playing. Just fishing some trouts, gathering berries in summer, going at the field to harvest in late summer, chop some wood in winter and so on. We can do it with this small buildings and tools.

Of course, 1:1 with Anders and Ella is extreme and a start with 3 or 4 families would be better to asses the realistic agening. But obviously, it's possible to build up a settlement with this conditions in a harsh nordic game. Very good. And your clan is successfull with this full barns and full health and happiness. Although it's because of your good gaming. Too old? Nope^^

Maybe it would be better to have more immigration at the beginning of the game. Do you have any ideas or a request to make this playstyle more interesting or more pleasant?

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on July 29, 2016, 02:36:03 PM

Maybe it would be better to have more immigration at the beginning of the game. Do you have any ideas or a request to make this playstyle more interesting or more pleasant?

I'll think about it. Early immigration would maybe be nice in a game like this. Although it also makes some trouble; The nomads are all uneducated and it stays so for a long time. I have decided to take all nomads that arrive. The settlement needs fresh blood, too much inbreeding.  ;) Really, it's because I want a challenge and the uneducated nomads surely is. I struggled very much at the beginning to get all children educated. It wasn't easy to do all the work with one adult as the other was the teacher, but they all survived and education always pays off. Here, as the people live longer, even more. And now the nomads disturbs that. In this 1:1 game, I think they arrive too often. There's no real time to recover the educational rate between the "batches". We'll see how it works out, as the settlemet grows.

You might also be right @Tom Sawyer, in making your Nordic houses houses for a family of 6. More would be nice at the beginning, but as it looks now, the population grows very fast. If I don't force-separate the couples (I don't do that anymore), they can still have about 7 children. (By the way my Ella, named Harlyn had 10 ) If I build enough houses, the children start to move out as the mother is young enough to have another 3 or maybe even 4 children. That brings a fast population growth. We will see if it eventually grows out of control.

10, wow. Very productive your Ella. Better not to think about what she did with her sons...^^

Up to 7 kids per woman is not bad and it sounds realistic for earlier times. Maybe the death rate was higher because of starvation and epidemics. But this is in game too if you come in trouble...

The settlement prospers:

First picture

Year 35. The first great grand child of Anders and Ella (Weylan and Herlyn) was born. In this weird family constellation, it's also a grand child.  :-\ :o The mother Izeth is the oldest grand daughter and the father Melvis is their youngest son!

Second picture

I farm a bit potatoes and cherries. As I said, in a harsh climate, it's very unreliable. But I think, it's still worth the effort. It is an effort. You have to start the harvest manually, otherwise it's no use. The second picture shows two very extreme years. Last year was terrible; It was the smallest harvest I had, due to wheather (I have had equally small, when I forgot to start the harvest in time). There were no cherries at all. This summer was unusually warm; potatoes were harvested to almost 100%, cherries about 85%. I guess the average harvest of potatoes is about 60%, cherries 40%. It's much less, than in a warm climate, but you must also consider than fruit cost 2 to buy, so I will continue to build some fields and orchards. But not so many that I really need a good harvest. That would cause trouble.

This is one of the nice thing with the Nordic mod: You can't rely on just one food source/one way to support the settlement. If you want to be prosperous (at least in a harsh climate) you must use the whole range of possibilities in combination. At least it's the only way I see.

Third picture

What is this?
Year 41 Weylan died of old age, 57 years old. He had a hard life! But left a clan of 61 decedents. (There were a few immigrants, but they are family, too. Many of them fathers and mothers of the great grand children).
What happend to the old widow Herlyn? She took one of her grand children in to her house. I can only hope it's a caring grandson, attending to his old grandmother. But at the menu, he is on the place of the husband!  @Tom Sawyer you don't want to think about, what she's doing with her sons. I don't want to think about, what she's doing with her grand sons!  :-[ And what if Harlyn had died first? Had Weylan taken one of his grand daughters as wife? Had there been new babies? I'm not sure I want to look into the houses, as the next generation starts to die.

I suppose you have taken the 20 year age difference maximum for couples, @Gordon Dry. Why? It's maybe an advantage that no (or few) houses are occupied by only one person, but I think it comes to strange things.

He did a great job. I take a minute of silence for Weylan. :)

In the other case he probably would have made children with a daugther. I'm not sure. Maybe it would be better to limit the age for getting married to the range of having children to avoid strange things. But that would mean more singles and more required houses. More realistic but more difficult.

I also read that the required food per year is reduced to 90, starvation comes later and the none tool penalty is x4 instead of x5. So an impossible start is much easier with the 1:1 mod. ;)

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 01, 2016, 03:12:48 PM

I also read that the required food per year is reduced to 90, starvation comes later and the none tool penalty is x4 instead of x5. So an impossible start is much easier with the 1:1 mod. ;)

I have noticed, that they need a little bit less food. It might have sense, if you don't want, that the mod makes the game harder. I find it harder (not hard but not as easy as normal) to support the settlement with food, because there are more students and children than in a normal game. I started Anders and Ella and they had a few tools to start with, I also had no tool crisis, so I haven't noticed the tools. I also don't understand why, but normally it doesn't make much difference, unless you start "impossible", of cause! ;)

The game goes on. The settlement grows, 179 inhabitants in 55 years. It's not that slow anymore. The gameplay isn't much different from a normal game. I haven't noticed any more deaths, so there are no more odd couples. The old Herlyn still lives with her grandson. 5 generations are shown at this picture. At the beginning, as the game was slow (and a bit booring for me) I kept track of the people and their relations. Can't do that anymore.

Menus in the middle:
Herlyn (my ancestress) and her grandson Mann
Genery and Moreena (the two eldest children) Here you can see that they got 3 more children after the eldest 4 moved out.
Melvis (youngest son) and Izeth (daughter of Genery and Moreena)
Hezekiel (nomad boy) and Katience (daughter of Melvis and Izeth) and their children Authurson and Camilee, 5th generation.

You can see, there are some fresh blood in this family line. I take every nomad so far. It's getting a bit difficult, the educational rate gets down dramatically (only 60% at present). If you take nomads in a normal game, it has time to recover between the "batches". Here it doesn't. I don't want any uneducated blacksmiths, tailors and (at least not yet) miners, where they do most harm. That's the reason, I keep the menus of the nomad families with "adult" children open (top left of the picture), to make sure, they live as far away from these workplaces as possible. It's not totally fool proof. Uneducated seems to fancy being tailors and blacksmiths and walk great distances, to be able to do their miserable handycraft. ;)

Normally it would be stupid to take so many nomads, as I do. But this is a test, so I will take some more.  :-\ ;)

I repeat myself but this education system is not satisfactory. Higher professions need no education and the miners making only the half without it. So the best is to let the uneducated people do the job of the doctor and teacher and to send the smart people in the quarry.^^

I have alleviated the problem a bit (already in version 2). Stonecutter and miners have a ratio of 4:3. The same as farmers, foresters and all other professions of the primary sector. And I removed the magic of the woodcutter. He makes always 4 firewood from 1 log.

The principle is: primary sector 4:3 and secondary sector 2:1. Thats ok. The tertiary sector should have 1:0 but no way to implement it. My suggestion to Luke (if he would read it). Please implement a variable to define that a profession or a building necessarily requires education. That only an educated citizen can be a doctor for example.

That's good to know about the mines. As all of your changes in numbers; it makes sense.

I've played a little bit more. Everything is fine so far. With the last nomads I took, the settlement's closing up to 500 inhabitants. But I have decided, this will be the last nomads, at least for some time. The educational rate is now 50% and the population grows fast, even without nomads.

I have compared the production at the same area from pastures, farming and forest. It's a bit difficult with this mixture of educated and uneducated workers. But as far as I can see, in this harsh climate, pastures are most productive. Chicken gives more directly, but if you consider, that you can increase the value of wool with a tailor; sheep and chicken are about the same. I had some cattle, too, but they all died. Maybe it was coincidence or the pasture was too small (6 cows) or are they too delicate in this cold climate? Farming brings a little more than forests, if you don't forget to start the harvest manually.

I trade a lot (and get richer and richer, almost 2000 daler in my port). But I don't need more than one trading port. It's getting a little bit hard to fill the port between the boats, so when the nomads all have houses, I will increase the number of traders. I have seen that you can put 50 of them in each port. I will not need that many, (at least not now) but it's good to have the possibility to use more than 20. I can manage with one port longer.

I now see another advantage to use coins. If there is no time for the traders to fill the port between the boats, it's simple to use coins, to buy what you want. But I have one question, a small problem; The boats always bring a few daler and a lot of pennigar (I have even had cases, as they only brought penningar). Most of the time, you can't sell everything you want and get paid in daler. This is a bit inconvenient. My trading port is quite full and even if the coins doesn't need much space, they need some. So you don't want a lot of penningar, just some loose change. I suppose this problem will disappear with specialized trading ports. Another thing that might be possible with specialized ports is automatic trading. With one port there isn't much need of it, but it wouldn't work as long as you can't choose, what goods the merchant should take. (If the food merchant takes all my daler instead of salmon as payment, I could buy no bricks from the next trader, who wants no salmon, if you see what I mean)

Wow, 130k food and 2k dalers. The harsh climate can not harm you. Not even with low education. The new trade values will make a difference. And if it is not enough you will be sentenced to play on mountain maps. ;D

In numbers the sheep is similar to the others and much better if you process the wool. Chicken is now better in comparison and they have some advantages. They produce food continuously and use the space mostly more effective. They are cheap in purchase. And eggs don't need education. Perfect for your newbies. Maybe this is the effect in your game. Your cows did not die because of the cold and also not because of the small pasture. I don't know why.

Automatic trading should work in the single trading post. Of course, if the traders spend all money on food, there is nothing left for bricks and the bricks come rarely. Specialized posts will solve it perfectly. In a single trading post you could try to regulate it by a smaller amount of food in the purchase tab.

I would store my dalers, which I don't need for current trading, in barns. The big barn is a more efficient storage than the trading post. And it will be shown in the status bar for a nice overview of your cash reserve.

The amount of pennies I will reduce. Good note.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 05, 2016, 03:50:09 PM
Automatic trading should work in the single trading post. Of course, if the traders spend all money on food, there is nothing left for bricks and the bricks come rarely. Specialized posts will solve it perfectly. In a single trading post you could try to regulate it by a smaller amount of food in the purchase tab.

It will not work with less food. At present, I buy all I can get. (sometimes not all wheat, the boats bring a lot more wheat than cabbage and apples, I had to unorder it by some boats). But as I said. There's no need for automatic trading with one port. If my stores of daler grows much more, I might store it in the barns, but so long it's convenient to leave them in the port, where I sooner or later will need them.

First picture
This could happen if you play disasters on: tornado ~ 120 dead people, a lot of dead animals, one market, one school, a lot of houses, barns and more; all gone.

Second picture
This is weird! Many people died. Even if many houses where damaged, there are now more houses than families. That means separated couples. I had to look into the houses, find them and when I need new houses, force them together again. That's how I found this family. How could this happen? The husband (!) is a 7 year old uneducated (!) teacher. (I have had more than enough schools, no nomads the last years). Obviously this child was in the school that was damage by the tornado. But why doesn't he attend another school? There are plenty of them, always was. Weird! The wife is 47 years old, too old to have small children, 1 and 2 years old. And they are certainly not from the uneducated teacher either. :o :-\ ???

Tornadoes are annoying. Fire is better. You can do something.. stone houses, distances, wells. With tornadoes I can just sit and watch and pray. And start a new game. Not nice. And tornadoes in nordic regions? Never heard. Shall I reduce the chance?

This family is really weird. It seems that children are simply adults when the school is destroyed. Even if education is not finished. And obviously with the 1:1 mod a uneducated citizen can work with 6 and marry with 7 or so. Something crazy. My son is 8. If I imagine, he marries the girl next door and goes to school in the morning, in order to work as a teacher ... Wow. ^^

I have to make the building stages of the school. I want to finish it and make a new version soon, I hope.

Try RealTimeAging.
The numbers are quite different, maybe you like them.
They'll be adults at 15 so it's a slow progress.

http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=39 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=39)

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 07, 2016, 09:14:52 AM
Tornadoes are annoying. Fire is better. You can do something.. stone houses, distances, wells. With tornadoes I can just sit and watch and pray. And start a new game. Not nice. And tornadoes in nordic regions? Never heard. Shall I reduce the chance?

In fact, I don't find them annoying, believe it or not. I like the little setbacks. If I play disasters on, I want disasters, not a couple of small infestations. Rebuilding is a part of the fun. Infestations are annoying and make in fact no sense, because they are no disasters, too easy to get rid of, same as fires, no disasters anymore. I don't know, how many of you played this game from the start. In the very first version, the fires were very cool. If you got a fire in a dense area, it was almost impossible to prevent it to spread. I had towns, that were destroyed to more than 50%. As you might understand, there was an outcry of complains. Unfortunately the fires where made too harmless in later patches. I was quite disappointed. You could prevent huge fires by building "smart". I never understood all these complains. It's possible to turn disasters off. And with disasters on, there's only this one disaster left; the tornado.

Tornadoes are in fact rare here in the north, but they do exist, at least in my area, up in the north, I don't know. Even so, I would find it a pity, to reduce the probability.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 07, 2016, 09:14:52 AM
I have to make the building stages of the school. I want to finish it and make a new version soon, I hope.

I'm very much looking forward of that!  :) This game is getting near the end.

Quote from: kid1293 on August 07, 2016, 10:56:34 AM
Try RealTimeAging.
The numbers are quite different, maybe you like them.
They'll be adults at 15 so it's a slow progress.

http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=39 (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=39)

I'm not sure, I have the patience. I looked at the numbers. With only one child every 2-3 years, it would be real slow. The beginning of this game was too slow for my taste, still there were one child every 1,5 year ( mother's age 15-35). By the way @kid1293; I like your small forest buildings. They were indispensable at the beginning and I have kept some. In small forest areas, they are still very valuable.

First picture
Tornado setback fixed. Houses rebuilt, pastures refilled, everything works just fine. You can see some of the small forest buildings on this picture.

Second picture
There's a lot of trout in the small streams.

Glad you like the forest buildings! :)

About RealTimeAging - It is probably too cruel to use that mod with North on hard/impossible.

For me, the values of RealTimeAging look good. With educated people it should not be a big difference, but it avoids the crazy families with uneducated kids who are going to work with 6 and marry their own grandmother with 7.^^ And it does not have any cheats like -10% required food per year.

I have the feeling that harsh / hard or impossible is more pleasant with realistic aging (whether 1:1 or the other). I don't have to keep up with the rapid aging... Only an Adam and Eve start is extremely slow at the beginning. Thats right but very special.

Ok, no changes of the tornadoes. And it would be no problem to make more fire or more diseases. ;D

Maybe I'll try it with the upgrade.

I don't need more small fires. As I said; to me it's no disaster, only a minor disturbance. If you don't forget the wells far away from the river, there's mostly one or maybe two houses destroyed, even in dense settlements. If you have really bad luck, it might spread to a market or a barn and some goods will be gone. That's about the worse that will happen. Or maybe if a school catches fire: I always thought that the children than goes to another school, as long as there are enough of them. In my present game they didn't.

I did not mean more small fires. I thought of an infernal conflagration.^^ There are some funny variables. Spread chance for example.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 08, 2016, 10:19:30 AM
I did not mean more small fires. I thought of an infernal conflagration.^^ There are some funny variables. Spread chance for example.

I wouldn't mind if you played around with these figures. I promise to be a test pilot, disasters on! But don't forget to warn people, if you publish something like that. Not everyone is is such a masochist as I am! ;)

Maybe disastrous fires could replace the unusual tornado in the Nordic mod. It would be realistic. I know of no old Swedish town, that had no major fires in the past, that destroyed more or less the whole town. In my nearest town Mariestad  (founded late 1500) there were at least 2 of them.

My second picture shows the worse case now: a fire in a new area far away from water, no well built yet; 1 marketplace and 3 houses.  :-\

The first picture shows an idea I had for the support of the growing population: Mining. But there's a bug (I think you have fixed it @Tom Sawyer ) that prevents you from put iron into the trading ports. I thought I could than sell steel, but unfortunately, it's the same; the traders don't carry anything like that into the ports. There's not enough logs to increase the tool production as much as needed. So that's it! I see no possibility for this settlement to survive.

The third picture with the chickenmarch in the beautiful winter light, shows another small problem. Look at the inventory; A lot of protein (I sell salmon, eggs, mutton and venison), a lot of grain, only a little fruit and vegetables. I order wheat, cabbage, apples and trout. The merchants bring a lot of wheat, some cabbage, a few apples and very little trout. It's good, that there's not much trout. That's not the point. In this part of the game, I have to buy all food that's brought, but there's not enough fruit and vegetables. During one period of the game I only ordered apples and cabbage by some merchants, but it didn't change much. I had the impression, that the total amount of food he brought, was less.

In earlier parts of the game, as I didn't have to buy all food, there were normally wheat left on the boat, after the shopping was done. Short; too much wheat, too little fruit and vegetables. Now the question @Tom Sawyer ; Is this intentional? A way to force people to farm in the harsh climate?  In that case, it's not a very good way. If I want no farming, I would build some more trading ports and that I know; it's not your intention. My suggestion is to decrease the amount of wheat and increase the amount of vegetables and fruit on the boats.

Quote from: Nilla on August 09, 2016, 03:05:31 AM
Maybe disastrous fires could replace the unusual tornado in the Nordic mod. It would be realistic.

This idea I really like. I will make some tests with fire spreading and so on.

Your iron settlement is a exciting venture. I would like to see it. You can use this small bug fix above the North to store iron, steel and coal in the trading post. Unfortunately you need to build a new trading post in your current game.

Oddly that you don't have enough logs to produce tools. There were several statements from you that timber production is too weak...

The stack count of wheat is higher than apples or cabbage because there are only 2 kinds of grain and more of veges and fruits. My intention was to ensure that enough grain arrives. And if you simply purchase more kinds of fruits and vegetables? I will take a look on the stack counts. It should be about the same of all types.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 09, 2016, 12:50:38 PM
Oddly that you don't have enough logs to produce tools. There were several statements from you that timber production is too weak...

It's not quite that simple. I would not say weak. The limiting factor is space. This is a medium map and I use as much space I find reasonable for forests. My 33 foresters produced 2900 logs last year. Not bad, BUT in this cold climate I used 8500 firewood and almost 700 tools. What's left; I need to build.  There's nothing left to produce tools for export. I can't order and buy logs. I suppose they would cost 10 and that would kill most of the profit. Besides, boats that carries logs doesn't arrive often. One possibility would be to buy firewood, but they are only offered by the same boats that offers food. And I need all the food I can get. More trading ports could possibly be an option. I will try it.

But I don't think this could save the settlement now, it's too late in the game. But at least, I can make some more testing.

2900 logs from 33 foresters are good. 73% of it to heat the homes is not good. Firewood is really not the main task of forestry. My first idea is to increase the firewood production to 8 from a log instead of 4. It would mean about 33% of the logs in your current game for heating. Sounds more realistic for me and it should offer more possibilities to use logs for tool production and for trading. Collecting firewood would also benefit from it and I think it can get a buff. What do you think?

I think, that might be a good idea, if you want to have logs/tools as an export product. My gatherers also collect some firewood, but I don´t send the labourers to clear the forest from firewood as I did at the beginning. Maybe I should, it might free some logs for other things.

I've been thinking a little more about making 8 firewood from each log. I like the idea, but of cause, the trade value of firewood must be changed to 1. And don't forget to look at the charcoalburner, that uses firewood. I find it good balanced now.  With no changes here and firewood only worth 1, it might be a too good business, to buy firewood and make coal. But you are good at balancing @Tom Sawyer, so I'm sure you make it right.

I loaded the tradefix, went back a few years and went on with my game yesterday. First I built 3 new trading ports, than I replaced my 2 old. The food graph shows how dependent this settlement is on food import. It takes some years to get enough cheap food and the stores got down quite dramatically. Luckily the stores were big, so there was no real problem.

I increase the mining, the steel- and the iron tool production all the time. I make no steel tools anymore. I don't know, if it's the right thing to do. Mining demands a lot of tools. I was a bit behind for some time, but I have increased the production, so there will be no tool crisis. I'm not sure, if only steel tools would be better. They will last longer, but on the other hand, there would be less steel to export. Can anyone say how much longer steeltools last?

I think I will have to rebuild the marketplaces, too. I am a bit puzzled. I have a few barns in the mining areas. My thought was, that iron and coal will end up here, convenient for the blacksmiths to get. The stores of iron and coal increases, but always, as I look into these barns, there might be 5 coal and 12 iron, sometimes nothing. So I wondered; where is it? The answer: all over the place. There's some coal and iron in almost every barn. Iron is no big surprise. If iron is cleared from the ground, it lands in some barn and if there's no blacksmith close or nothing built, that needs iron, it will stay there forever. But coal? No mine or carcoal burner ever in the area. Why is it carried around the place? Makes no sense to me.

Maybe I will not bother about the marketplaces. I see no long future of this settlement anyway. It looks good now, but it grows too fast. I have built too many houses, too fast in the past. This 1:1 mod with the short time between the children, in combination with the red houses for a family of 6, makes it very hard to control the population growth. I also knew, that after the first few batches, it was a big mistake to take nomads. It was only a small experiment. Maybe it would have been more interesting, to go for a long sustainable game. But here we are, I will play until it crashes. 2000 inhabitants should be possible. That's always something.

Really nice to see your settlement. The dense housing areas and so many smithies and mines. I would say it's a prosperous northern industrial town. :)

Yes, we reduce firewood to 1. And maybe the coal will be a bit cheaper.

I have the impression that tool production including mining eats itself. Due to the high wear of tools. Can you say how many tools you produce and how many you consume in a year?

The use value of tools = 100, steel tools = 200.

I have no idea why the materials are stored so scattered. Sometimes the workers carry several things, do another job and store it later in another location. And the markets also store iron and coal in locations where it is not needed... Thats why I want the industrial warehouse.

I wanted to go on with the game but it crashes, immediately after I start. The same thing with the normal savegame and the autosave before. I guess it depends on that trade fix. It's never gut to load a new mod to an existing game. If I load a savegame before I used it, there's no crash.

If I remember right, I produced=used about 1000 tools each year.

One thing I forgot to say; My problems with too much wheat was solved as I started to order different kind of vegetables and fruit. Stupid that I didn't thought of it myself. In a vanilla game, I always order only one of each food type, all in all there's about the same of everything. I do it because it's easier to see, how much of each food type you have, if you don't have to look at the whole menu and count. But it's not so much trouble to add beans, cabbage and potatoes. I started school before the calculators, so I have learned to count. ;)

Oh I'm sorry! It was not good to mess around with the marketplace.

You needed 1k tools for 800 workers. Mostly iron tools as you said. And 18% of your workers were in the tool production but they did not made all materials to tools. And a limit was the wood production. Difficult to say something to it. I think to go on steel tools would be better but obviously it's hard to make enough tools for export. Tailoring seems to be much stronger. You need only 5 tailor but 25 toolmaker. A coat is made for 4 years, a tool for about 1 year. No wunder. And i think wool is easier to produce than mining/charcoal burning/forestry. It could need some changes. On the quick I have no right idea. Perhaps because its too late in the evening. Or because I had a calculator in school.^^

Clothes is no really good export good either in a large settlement. The production of textiles (mainly wool) also need space. I produced a small surplus of clothes and exported some of the Nordic woolcoats, but they need awfully much wool. In order to save wool, I produce woolcoats for my population. It's also difficult to produce reindeercoats. The hunters are distributed all over the place, so are the furs. In the middle of the game, I used my one trading port to collect them together, let them out and set one tailor close to the port to produce raindeer coats. That worked for some time, but later I found it too tedious and finally I started to export furs instead. Here would of cause also your specialized markets help.

To my many blacksmiths; most of them produce steel for export. Because of the strange distribution of iron and coal, the productivity is low. Even if tools are worn out fast, I think you could get economy in toolmaking, if you solve the distribution with your markets. Mining need little space.

I want to test this. That other game didn't work, so I started a new game. Since you condemned be to play on a small mountain map @Tom Sawyer , I used one of those. ;) It's the first I opened. Not much space there. There are better maps, but this one will do.

Instead of the 1:1 mod, I will test the RealTimeAging from @torgonius. I haven't played much, but it's terrible at the beginning. S L O W ! It takes ages to get children. The girl at the picture moved out at 16, got a mate ½ year later and have still no children with 20. If the children were born too fast in the 1:1 mod, I think it's too slow here, at least the time until the first child is born. But on the other hand; have you endured the slow start, the possibility to get a sustainable settlement is better with this mod. I know, it's not possible to have both, so I will not give in; do my miserable 10X speed game some more years and we will see.

Sounds very good for me. Difficult to make reindeer coats, difficult to make nordic coats. warm clothing should be difficult. That you even made simple wool coats to provide your people with clothing, is a good sign.. So there are different ways and all have its place in the game. I think, at the moment no changes to tailoring.

Btw, one sheep gives the wool for one nordic coat per year. So you can count the sheeps on your map and you know how many coats you can make in a year. It also could help against sleep problems.^^

This girl could be a special case. There is a wide tolerance for the time to get a child after married.

I think the only way to push the population at the beginning of a realtime aging game is immigration. I would like to have a very simple building to get more immigrants in the early game with only 2 citizens. So Anders and Ella would have the possibility to get some special friends to make more babies. And to avoid strange couples in the next generation. In vanilla you need minimum 8. Kid made this nice small immigration office. This is a good idea but probably not for 2. Another thing is this statue. Thats not my taste. I wonder how it was in earlier times. Often a small village church was the foundation for a settlement. But the game requires a unique. What else could it be?

I showed it to Nilla so I can show it to you.
Nomads can be placed on almost anything.
It must have a footprint so it can be selected, that's all.
I don't know about including them in a church, but it could
be worth a try.

Here is the simplest solution, more of joke right now but
you can elaborate on this.

Thanks @kid1293 . Ok, it could be everything. But what? It should be something nice and suitable. What could Anders and Ella build if they want some special friends for their settlement?^^

A billboard with "Welcome" like on your picture could it be, why not. I think if we include the immigration function in a church, it will be a unique... not good.

I agree about the church, but what about a well?
On a semi-open space and fully functional against fires?

the colonial set has a meeting house for a town hall and adds a statue for nomads. couldnt a meeting house or town center b set by itself to do nomads? CC has a small "town arrival",its a lamp post with rowboat.doesnt help much if u are landlocked thou. i do think a meeting hall-church or town center back years ago was the multi-puurpose building towns did use.  is it possable to do like a hotel n stable set,that way u have a small boarde=ing house and the stable piece is for the nomad travelers?

Of course you can have nomads at the Town Hall by itself!
But then you have them running all game long.
It's a nice thing to be able to stop them from coming.

Here is another view to consider.
The well I talked about has really worked out well. :)
I made a file with several %-limits to the wells.
The nomads come every year - second month (Spring)
@Tom Sawyer , @Nilla - This way you can decide how many
and when they come.
In the first picture I have 96 citizens and the wells
are designed for 10-20-50-100 % nomads based on
those 96 persons. It works fine. (Haven't tested 200%. tomorrow...)


In the second picture I accepted all nomads and
burned the town.  :o
You can see that the wells are still providing water
to put the fire out.

Cool ideas!

Technically the wells are a perfect solution. My first thought was ... The citizens dig deep holes in the ground. And it comes out something. They crawl up the walls of the well. To infiltrate the human ... Ok, too much imagination. ;D

A hotel with stables would be perfect for a mod in the Wild West. Later.^^

This town arrival in CC is really nice with the boat and the lantern. It can also be built on the dry and it has the townhall interface. This I would remove. My favorite at the moment is something like that. A pier for immigrants to build on the river. It could be additional to the town hall for more immigration if wanted (for example in the early game) or different kinds of it to control immigration like with these wells. And to separate it from the town hall. I agree with Kid, that immigration should be separeted. And the pier would not need the trading post, if it is replaced by specialized docks...

For your information - The 200% works too.
111 citizens in town.

The different wells seem good to me, although that big building ground was more funny. :D But when you ask @Tom Sawyer :

QuoteWhat could Anders and Ella build if they want some special friends for their settlement?^^

I would answer: A house to live in. Why not a house with these different numbers, like the wells from @kid1293?I think there are mods with boardinghouses and inns, that attracts nomads, some mods like that were made right at the beginning.

Another option to get a faster start in a real time game would be to have many people right from the start. As I said to @kid1293 as we spoke our secret language, suitable to the Nordic theme ;) it could be made in all difficulties. About 10 families, a barn full of supply and a stockpile full of buildingmaterials would be easy to start up, but if they had nothing; this would maybe be a real impossible start.

What about my new real time game. I played a lot yesterday. I have got a nasty summer cold, so I can't do much other things than sit at my computer, sneeze and sniffle. The game is getting better as the population grows, not slow and boring anymore. I still play most in 10x speed but from time to time I go down to 5X, a good sign for me. I took some batches of nomads, but not too many. I want to hard test the blacksmiths, so I don't want too many uneducated.

Some questions and suggestions popped up during the game. I'll explain to the pictures.

First picture
This time I store 500 daler and 500 penningar in each port. The rest should be stored in the barns. But why do they appear at the markets? No sense in having them carried around to all markets. I have the tradefix loaded. No crashes! Steel is carried to the port (I suppose iron and coal too, if I want to sell any). But there's nothing at the markets. If you make your industrial markets, it's good, but here it's a little bit annoying.

Second picture
This small area up in the northwest corner is too small for a forest, so I will build a small mining-blacksmith village here. I'm really looking forward to your "lanthandel", @Tom Sawyer. Normally there's no need for a big marketplace in this small area, but I have no choice, if I want to keep a decent health. The place is flooded with proteins and even people who live in a radius of a marketplace, use "protein barns" and have only fish/meat/eggs in their homes.

I sell steel, steeltools and Nordic coats for cash. I also sell proteins for other food. The reason I sell steel, together with steel tools is that the merchant who want to buy the tools brings too little cash. I can seldom sell all tools and if I can, no clothes. So, unless I build another trading port, and that's too soon, there's no use to increase the production of tools very much. Steel is a good way to sell something to the merchant who only buys rawmaterials.

The settlement grows. I want it sustainable. That's the reason I'm "behind" in building houses.  In this mod young people normally leave school at 15 and could move out as soon as they are adults, but this is annoying; they don't move together until they are 16. There are a lot of young people, who want to move out, but this 15 year old occupies this house alone, until she's 16 than she will get a mate. It was similar in the 1:1 mod, but you never see this in a vanilla game. @kid1293 something to think about in your real time mod.

Third picture
The 15-year old single girl might have something to do with this: This family lives far away from a school. Still the children are educated with 15. In a vanilla game, it would have taken a few more years (I have seen students with 24). I guess @torgonius, that you somehow have taken the influence of the distance from school away. I don't really like that, you don't have to care about, where you place the schools, and the consequence with the 15 years old singles occupying houses is bad too.

The distance  between the children is good in this mod. Even if it was a bit boring at the beginning, it now works very well. It's not hard (at least at the moment) to get a nice linear growth. I will try to keep it this way for some more time, than I will try to reduce the growth. That might be a little bit tricky with the Nordic houses. :)

@Nilla - Short question - I have right now end of school just after 14.
If I lower the marriage age to 14 they will move together immediately?
Or up the school end? I'm getting there but it is a lot of experimenting
since I only got basics from Gordon.

I have no idea. I suppose that I know less than you about such things, but I can guess, that they will not move together until they have left school. At least not two students. In the vanilla game a student might move to an adult person, if there are no adults (and sometimes also if there are adults, especially if they are long time students with 20 or so). This is quite unpleasant if he/she moves to a place far away from the school. But I have never seen a student occupying a house him/herself or together with a fellow student, so I suppose it will work that way with your mod, too. But why don't you increase the time in school? I think that would be better than a reduced marrage age.

Have increased study time, and kept marriage at 15.
I'm not there yet. I have found a value I know nothing about
but it can be that 'required education' that sometime makes
them stay in school for a long time.

The main problem is - when I update, something triggers
all to be uneducated. Found that out when people started
to go hungry. So I picked up debug and set all to educated...
Wow, almost twenty educated young ones.
Fool me - I started building houses and now when I quit
I had many houses with one 10-11 year educated child
in each. 5 years alone in that house. Hopeless.

I start over tomorrow. Time for a late dinner and then
listen to some good music.

@Nilla Get well! Maybe not a good idea to hang around in a harsh nordic game at -20 degrees with a cold. ;)

This damn marketplace. Money should not be there but iron. The village shop is done. We can test it soon. And merchants will bring more cash in the next version.

These annoying young singles, don't want to get married immediately.^^ Let them have some fun for a year.

Your population graph looks good. Very stable. It seems its more a problem with 4 kids in the cottages than an advantage. We can reduce it.

@kid1293 I played around with these values too. I think the required education is the same like required work. Technically student is a profession and they need in vanilla 400 of it. With a short way to school it's over after a year. So it should be increased in realtime.

About required education. I figured that out too.

but   float _educationTimeLength is not as the other values.
It is not years,months,evenly divisible or logical as I see it.

Initially it's 3 and gives 1.3-1.4 year in school
I set it to 9 and get about 4 years. That's OK

with    int _requiredEducation proportional (initially 400 - now 1200)
and close to school it matches.

What is    float _educationWorkLength ?
I just kept it 10 and it works.

@Nilla - Have you caught your cold from one of your Bannies? :)

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 13, 2016, 02:34:43 PM
@Nilla Get well! Maybe not a good idea to hang around in a harsh nordic game at -20 degrees with a cold. ;)

Thank you, I suppose I should rather start a desert CC-game, but I like this better, so I will continue my sneezing! ;)

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 13, 2016, 02:34:43 PM
Your population graph looks good. Very stable. It seems its more a problem with 4 kids in the cottages than an advantage. We can reduce it.

I would rather like to keep it that way. If you play a real time game, it's faster at the beginning. We need that. Later, if you don't want a fast growth anymore, it makes the game a bit more difficult, but it's still good manageable. You have to think a bit more, and plan how many houses you build a bit more careful. That's good, too. In a "normal time" game, it doesn't matter much.

Quote from: kid1293 on August 13, 2016, 03:31:19 PM
but   float _education TimeLength is not as the other values.
It is not years,months,evenly divisible or logical as I see it.

Initially it's 3 and gives 1.3-1.4 year in school
I set it to 9 and get about 4 years. That's OK

with    int _requiredEducation proportional (initially 400 - now 1200)
and close to school it matches.

What is    float _educationWorkLength ?
I just kept it 10 and it works.

@Nilla - Have you caught your cold from one of your Bannies? :)

One of these values has probably something to do with the distance between home ans school. In this game it's obvious, that you can take that influence away. I would leave it the way it is in the vanilla game.

And no, this village had no signs of influenza. They were unusually healthy. As far as I remember, a few were ill once; mumps I think, and I'm sure I had that as a child! ;)

I played to year 92 yesterday. 400 inhabitants. It works fine. The map is more or less full. There are room for maybe 10 more houses, some trout fisher and mini barns, if I don't want to "steal" any forest ground. And I really don't want that. You can see, there are not much logs. I even bought a few a while ago. I will not order logs, but from now on, buy as many as the merchant bring. I also have to cut the tool production and instead increase the steel production.

I have built a second trading port. Mostly to get rid of tools and steel. It would also have worked with only one but more comfortable this way. I have decided to have a store of food of about 100 000. It would not have been hard to increase it, but in that case, I would have needed more barns and there's no room for that.

I have just discovered one very overpowered thing to produce. I will not use more than this one building, it in this game, but I think, that it would not have been very hard to increase the population to the double, if you use it to the extreme! Look at picture 2 and see if you find out. ;)

The population growth is still nice and steady, but I expect the graph to flatten out soon. I have returned to the 10x speed now. There's not much to do except trading. I would like to autotrade, but I don't really dare: There's too much manual work needed; I don't want to buy too much food but enough of each category. I don't want to sell all tools and all steel but enough of it, to prevent the stores to be overfull. I want to sell mutton, eggs and chicken, but I don't want, that the traders walk all over the place, to pick up a few eggs, while there are no steel in the port. We will see, maybe I make a try, if it gets boring.

Quote from: Nilla on August 14, 2016, 06:31:23 AM
I have just discovered one very overpowered thing to produce. I will not use more than this one building, it in this game, but I think, that it would not have been very hard to increase the population to the double, if you use it to the extreme! Look at picture 2 and see if you find out. ;)

I find the tavern with overpowered Weißbier production. :)

It needs a change. Actually I want some typical nordic kinds of alcohol. I know in your country cider is very popular, made from apples or pears. Beer of course but not from wheat... Only Bavarians make this dishwater.^^ And what about blueberries? You have a lot of them in your woods and I increased the amount of blueberry bushes in the summery forests. What do you make from it? Schnaps? And from potatoes... cheap hooch? ;D

Of cause, you found it @Tom Sawyer.  Each Weissbier; a profit of 5 and you make 450-500 each year at eachin one brewery. I sometimes say; I'm 1/4 Bavarian. Not by blood, but I lived 1/4 of my life in Bavaria, but I never learned to drink Weissbier. ;)

You are right, cider is popular today, but I think it's quite new. I can't even remember, that we drank it in the 1970s, as I was young. Beer is classical, I think we always drank it. As long as we grew potatoes, we made "schnaps" from it and from grain, too. Than we all heard from the mead, drunk by the vikings. As far as I know it's a honey wine but I don't think it was very common, at least not after we became Christians, around year 1000. ;)

One thing I can remember from my childhood, is something called "svagdricka". My great uncle and aunt ran a farm in very old fashioned way, until the early 1960s. They worked the fields with horses, no tractor. They made a lot of things themselves, as example; separated the cream from the milk and made butter and they brewed "svagdricka". It's some kind of dark, quite sweet beer (we sometimes buy it for Christmas). I suppose, it's not very high on alcohol "svagdricka" means weak beer, google says, small beer. But it do contain alcohol. Children weren´t allowed to drink it. Instead we got something called "enebärsdricka", that my great aunt made. It looked the same, but was made from juniper berries (Wacholderbeeren in German) and I suppose alcohol free.

I have never heard of any alcoholic beverages from blueberries, but I'm sure it's possible.

I saw one more thing, that I forgot to say: the merchant who sells building materials and only want coin, also take ale as payment. I'm not sure it's intentional.

Maybe I should stop testing things. I see a little something or ask a question, than you got a bunch of new great ideas .............. the next version will never be done! I want these new great buildings and the new harder trade values soon!  ;) ;)

Probably 1/4 is not enough to like Weissbier.

Svagdricka seems to be a kind of low-alcoholic malt beer. I also read from Swedish and Finnish blueberry liqueur but maybe not really common. So we could make cheap schnapps from potatoes, much beer from grain and a special liqueur from blueberries with a higher trade value.

And yes, these merchants really love alcohol. It's like a secret second currency. More a joke but I wanted to make alcohol more interesting because you never need it. The problem with alcohol is that the citizens drink it immediately if it is poduced. Its difficult to trade with this stuff. We solved it in the tequilla mod by an additional step in the production chain but this stuff would not be accept from the drunken merchants.

Exactly. It is your fault that no new version is ready... ;)

This will be my last report from the village Windthorp. It has reached a population of 600. I think that's about as much as it's gets. The population graph is getting flatter.

In these last years I made a few changes; Some mines started to run empty. Not to say much about. This settlement has been running for a long time. I have the feeling, that you have increased the amount of ore, you can get out of a mine, compared to the vanilla mine, anyway @Tom Sawyer. As I've said before; I don't want to use land from the forests for anything else. Logs are really the limiting resource. So, I decided to slaughter all chicken and use the land of some pastures for new mines. There were also space for some more houses.

I tried automatic trading, but as I suspected; it doesn't work. I wasn't gone long from the computer, but in that time, things started to run bad. No real crises, but it would have been, if I let it run by itself longer. It seems like the merchants wants coins if they can get it. This settlement need to export salmon, but the stores were full and the treasurechambers were getting emptier (not really empty, I still had a lot of daler, but it was a large reduction in a short time.) There must also have been a lot of merchants who wanted steel and tools, because it was almost sold out. Not good.

After I started to trade manually again, I also started to order firewood. Things look much better now. I just put some tools into the ports again. If I ran this settlement longer, I would have used the logs mainly for steel tools. But it's too boring. Nothing to do except trading. So I will stop now.

First picture
Many adult children are still living at their parents. 300 potential families in 120 houses. There's not really 180 houses "missing". This statistic is always misleading. Every person, who lives at home is counted as a family. I could rather occupy the half; 90 houses. That would mean totally 210 families, that fits to the 416 adults.

Second picture
Population graph, still slowly growing but not that much anymore. The happines is getting down. The young people want to move to a place of their own. And the parents finally want to get rid of their long adult offspring: Everyone is unhappy! You can also see, that I ran out of herbs a couple of times. There are a few houses outside the markets and they need herbs.

Third picture
Production and store. I try to keep stores of 20-25 k of each wheat, cabbage, apples and trout. For some time, I had to sell some trout. But after I killed all my chicken, it fits well.

Fourth picture
Production graphs. You can see my not very successful attempt of autotrading at every graph.